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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Fair enough, but I know myself.
Where your post rubbed me the wrong way was your sure declaration that just about everyone was doomed.
Statistics say that 20% will succeed. I've researched the habits of successful people and made them my own. I've already been through a serious trial and didn't falter.
Time will tell which side of the statistic any of us fall on.
To be fair her original post said most people. A 20% success rate means an 80% fail rate. 80% is most.
I do think being on this site gives us a big advantage with all the knowledge and experience of those who have been successful long-term.
It was most people who got fat as children teens, and then went on to say that the best we all as a group meeting that criteria was either giving up or yo-yoing.
It was rather more defeatist that we had a 20% shot at succeeding.
I find it interesting that no one ever considers the abysmal success of attempts at smoking cessation when quoting statistics around here, but we're married to the failure of weight loss. And yet, I think most of us think of smoking cessation as something most people succeed at. That's because they do. After multiple attempts. The statistics for individual attempts are far worse than those for weight loss, in fact.8 -
Right. "Most."
It's the truth.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Fair enough, but I know myself.
Where your post rubbed me the wrong way was your sure declaration that just about everyone was doomed.
Statistics say that 20% will succeed. I've researched the habits of successful people and made them my own. I've already been through a serious trial and didn't falter.
Time will tell which side of the statistic any of us fall on.
To be fair her original post said most people. A 20% success rate means an 80% fail rate. 80% is most.
I do think being on this site gives us a big advantage with all the knowledge and experience of those who have been successful long-term.
It was most people who got fat as children teens, and then went on to say that the best we all as a group meeting that criteria was either giving up or yo-yoing.
It was rather more defeatist that we had a 20% shot at succeeding.
I find it interesting that no one ever considers the abysmal success of attempts at smoking cessation when quoting statistics around here, but we're married to the failure of weight loss. And yet, I think most of us think of smoking cessation as something most people succeed at. That's because they do. After multiple attempts. The statistics for individual attempts are far worse than those for weight loss, in fact.
I quit smoking 5 years ago. It's a lot easier than staying thin because you don't need to smoke to live. I barely think about it anymore. Whereas keeping weight off requires constant effort for the rest of your life and you can't just quit eating. That's the difference.6 -
One of my unpopular opinions: If you have not lost at least 50+ pounds and MAINTAINED that loss for 2+ years, I take everything you say about weight loss/maintenance with a grain of salt. Unless it's something indisputable like the science of CI/CO.
If someone has lost zero weight, but offers a psychological insight that resonates with me, points to interesting research that seems well conducted, makes a incisive observation based on well-developed professional expertise, or suggests a strategy that seems like it could help me, I'm going to listen thoughtfully to their idea, no salt grains required.
Different learning strategies for different folks, I guess.
Take that with a grain of salt, though: I lost 50+, but have only been maintaining for around 19 months.
This. Some of the best advice I've received on these forums came from someone who I don't believe was ever overweight (SideSteel in his sexypants post).
I have maintained the initial loss of my first 70 pounds 2 years now and have lost 20 additional pounds. I'm still hoping to lose more. That doesn't make me more qualified to speak than anyone else, though.
@Middlehaitch has shared some brilliant insights, and she's lost 30 pounds. Some newbie might post an interesting insight or tasty sounding recipe.
I really just don't get having litmus tests.11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Fair enough, but I know myself.
Where your post rubbed me the wrong way was your sure declaration that just about everyone was doomed.
Statistics say that 20% will succeed. I've researched the habits of successful people and made them my own. I've already been through a serious trial and didn't falter.
Time will tell which side of the statistic any of us fall on.
To be fair her original post said most people. A 20% success rate means an 80% fail rate. 80% is most.
I do think being on this site gives us a big advantage with all the knowledge and experience of those who have been successful long-term.
It was most people who got fat as children teens, and then went on to say that the best we all as a group meeting that criteria was either giving up or yo-yoing.
It was rather more defeatist that we had a 20% shot at succeeding.
I find it interesting that no one ever considers the abysmal success of attempts at smoking cessation when quoting statistics around here, but we're married to the failure of weight loss. And yet, I think most of us think of smoking cessation as something most people succeed at. That's because they do. After multiple attempts. The statistics for individual attempts are far worse than those for weight loss, in fact.
I read a statistic once that most people who successfully quit smoking long term try 5 times before they are successful (or maybe it was succeed on the 5th time, it's been a while).
I was never a smoker but my husband was (and is) addicted. It took several tries before he finally gave it up for (hopefully) good. I think of this when I read about those that yo-yo and then finally succeed at losing weight.3 -
I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
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curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.0 -
curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.1 -
One of my unpopular opinions: If you have not lost at least 50+ pounds and MAINTAINED that loss for 2+ years, I take everything you say about weight loss/maintenance with a grain of salt. Unless it's something indisputable like the science of CI/CO.
The National Weight Control Registry uses 30 lb loss as their benchmark for a "substantial loss".
Their conclusions are interesting. http://www.nwcr.ws/- The "average" woman is 45 years of age and currently weighs 145 lbs, while the "average" man is 49 years of age and currently weighs 190 lbs.
- Registry members have lost an average of 66 lbs and kept it off for 5.5 years
- Weight losses have ranged from 30 to 300 lbs.
- Duration of successful weight loss has ranged from 1 year to 66 years!
- Some have lost the weight rapidly, while others have lost weight very slowly--over as many as 14 years.
- 45% of registry participants lost the weight on their own and the other 55% lost weight with the help of some type of program.
- 98% of Registry participants report that they modified their food intake in some way to lose weight.
- 94% increased their physical activity, with the most frequently reported form of activity being walking.
- 78% eat breakfast every day.
- 75% weigh themselves at least once a week.
- 62% watch less than 10 hours of TV per week.
- 90% exercise, on average, about 1 hour per day.
Wonder how many of these methods that were very successful in keeping wight off are considered unpopular opinions?6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,2 -
curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
Being realistic doesn't mean assuming failure. I think a lot of people are realistic. That's why MFP has a forum just for maintainers.8 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
Being realistic doesn't mean assuming failure. I think a lot of people are realistic. That's why MFP has a forum just for maintainers.
A much smaller forum than General Diet & Weight Loss, and much less active.
Just sayin'. Gonna keep working to stay in there myself, though.
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I think asking people not to be smug about their current success, and to have compassion for others, is fair enough. Indeed, it's a lesson I learnt in other areas of my life long since, and however well my weight loss goes, I am never going to sniff in contempt at others' poorer success.14
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
Being realistic doesn't mean assuming failure. I think a lot of people are realistic. That's why MFP has a forum just for maintainers.
A much smaller forum than General Diet & Weight Loss, and much less active.
Just sayin'. Gonna keep working to stay in there myself, though.
Me too.0 -
curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?
I believe that being less arrogant about it may not have helped me keep it off, but it would have saved me a lot of apologies/embarrassment when I was wrong.3 -
Anyway I'm giving it another go now, so if I get a different outcome, I'll come back and tell people in another decade 3
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curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?
I believe that being less arrogant about it may not have helped me keep it off, but it would have saved me a lot of apologies/embarrassment when I was wrong.
I see. I was just wondering why you kept pushing the point when pretty much everyone agreed that the odds were against long term weight loss. Expecting anyone who is losing weight to say they expect to regain 90% of the weight is pretty unrealistic. Of course we all expect to be in the 20%. Nothing wrong with that.1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?
I believe that being less arrogant about it may not have helped me keep it off, but it would have saved me a lot of apologies/embarrassment when I was wrong.
I see. I was just wondering why you kept pushing the point when pretty much everyone agreed that the odds were against long term weight loss. Expecting anyone who is losing weight to say they expect to regain 90% of the weight is pretty unrealistic. Of course we all expect to be in the 20%. Nothing wrong with that.
Yes I agree, that's why my opinion is "unpopular" even thought it's factual.
I personally have no expectations anymore. I cannot tell the future. I'll do my best, and that's all anybody can do.
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Packerjohn wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »My unpopular opinion: most people who got fat as children/teens will never maintain a healthy weight, and the best we can hope for is yo yo dieting. The other option is accepting being fat for good. The existence of a few exceptions to this rule doesn't change my opinion. Statistically, it's an obvious fact.
Yup, that's a pretty unpopular opinion. I know a lot of us here who plan on proving you wrong.
I don't "hope" for yo-yo dieting. MFP has taught me how to control my weight properly. I know what to do to prevent the yo-yo cycle from happening.
I didn't have that knowledge in the past. That's the big difference.
But the post didn't say it can't be done. It said "post people...' A lot of people here plan on proving it wrong. But statistics suggest most of that lot will fail, and even if all succeeded it would still be a small majority of the whole.
Exactly.
Hey if it was just me, I'd probably just have decided I'm a personal failure at weight loss after gaining back 100 lb the second time (again, it took years to lose it, years of maintaining, then a few more years of gaining it back.) and I used to sound exactly like every person who believes this will not happen to them.
But it wasn't just me. I can point to at least 20 people who used to do these WL forums with me ~10 years ago who were dedicated, motivated, smart, committed etc. and the same thing happened to all of them.
I have to conclude based on the evidence that maintaining a large WL permanently is something *most* people will not be able to do.
Most people won't. That is backed up by statistics. But I do agree with others that should not be seen as an excuse not to try and break that cycle. Some do it. The only way to join the minority is to never stop trying.
Yep. Most people with a diagnosis of cancer, even if the odds of survival longer term are fairly low, will do what is in their power to fight it.
Curiously, IME, anything but diet and exercise, often.
Why I say this: After 17 years, I'm still a frequent participant in a breast cancer support group (at this point, mainly to be an encouraging live demo that there's hope for long-term survival of quite advanced BC - I was stage III, multiple tumors, some large, positive lymph node).
A common scenario is that when people complete surgery, radiation & chemotherapy - when the intensive phase of treatment is over - there's a bit of a letdown. Some feel as if they've stopped fighting, or that their treatment team has stopped fighting for them, or something of that sort.
So, they say "what can I do to keep fighting?". Tears in eyes, sometimes, literally.
Locally, we're extremely lucky to have a varied range of free or very inexpensive exercise programs for BC survivors: A light aerobics-ish class in 3 locations based on Lebed method; YMCA yoga, tai chi, and fitness classes at multiple times & locations; and a rowing team.
So, they ask, and we say "exercise, healthy eating, and weight loss", and tell them about the solid basis for saying that. For regular exercise in particular, even without weight loss, there's fairly good research evidence that some subgroups get at least as strong a positive effect on reducing metastatic recurrence as they do from chemotherapy.
Responses vary, but around 90% of the time, the response amounts to "well, anything but that".
This stuns me, but it's by far the most common outcome. Thousands of BC survivors locally, a few dozen in these exercise programs.
Sorry, digression. I doubt it's an unpopular opinion that people can be stubbornly irrational about their own self-interest. Same mindset that keeps us getting obese.15 -
I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".18 -
I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
You are correct. It is an unpopular opinion.
Out of curiosity do you have any evidence of this, personal, with appropriate medical results, or published papers, research etc.
If it is just an opinion with no backing, this is a good thread to post it on.
I am slight and light and couldn't be healthy maintaining or losing on those calories.
Cheers, h.
ETA medically supervised and with nutritional supliments, that is a different ball game.5 -
Okay. I think this one may be unpopular, but every woman I know well enough to discuss weight management with, actively thinks about and works at maintaining a healthy weight. They may never have been classified as "overweight" simply because they stopped/reversed the weight gain when their pants start to get too tight.
It may look easy to an outsider, but it isn't. It is absolutely crazy to think that once you achieve a certain weight you can coast and ride easy. It is a lifetime of taking care of yourself and prioritizing your health.
While I'm sure there are healthy weight people who absolutely never think about it, I think they are the unicorns. They might not obsess about it as much and simply eat less when they feel the extra pounds coming on.
8 -
curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »I never listened when people told me the dire statistics until I became one. I used to get mad at the suggestion, in fact. And remember that "20% success rate" includes anyone who kept off 10% of their weight loss. Heck, by that standard I won! But I don't consider gaining back 90% of what I lost success at all. I doubt many people would.
I know this is a futile effort because people generally never think bad things could happen to them, but I just wish I personally had been more humble and less arrogant in the past. It stings to eat those words, it really does. I remember getting real mad at this one woman who said she regained because her child died. I feel so bad about that now- wish I could apologize to her. But I did not understand how it happens. Now I do, from watching all my WL friends and myself.
Also there's nothing special about MFP. People have been calorie counting for decades, it's just that now there's an app. Weight Watchers is basically calorie counting and it has the same dismal long term success rate of anything.
re: the bold section. What are you referring to when you "this is a futile effort"?
Trying to tell people about what happens to most people who lose weight. Nobody wants to hear it. I get that.
Why would they? It's the glass 3/4 empty point of view. Most would rather hear abut the 1/4 glass full.
Totally agree. But I think it makes more rational sense to be realistic. Know that if you are going to be in that small minority it is going to be a challenge forever. Never get complacent. And even if you believe you can do it, know that things are going to change in your life and you might not know now how you will handle it. And mostly I wish people had more compassion for ourselves and others. I keep saying this, but the people who were losing weight when I did, ~10 years ago, we were the "heros" and "success stories." It doesn't insulate you. The "success stories" of today may find themselves in my shoes 10 years from now. Statistics say most will,
So, do you believe your results would have been different if you had known the statistics before? Do you think knowing that you have a high risk of regaining most of the weight have made you more likely to keep it off?
I believe that being less arrogant about it may not have helped me keep it off, but it would have saved me a lot of apologies/embarrassment when I was wrong.
I see. I was just wondering why you kept pushing the point when pretty much everyone agreed that the odds were against long term weight loss. Expecting anyone who is losing weight to say they expect to regain 90% of the weight is pretty unrealistic. Of course we all expect to be in the 20%. Nothing wrong with that.
Yes I agree, that's why my opinion is "unpopular" even thought it's factual.
I don't disagree that it's common to gain back weight or that you have to be diligent and that stuff happens you cannot predict or, more likely, that you don't predict or don't predict the effect of. I lost weight in my early 30s, thought it was surprisingly easy, and assumed I would never get fat again. I did, over time, due to reasons. I don't feel like that makes the prior weight loss a failure. I had years in which I was not fat, I had experience I was able to use this time, I learned from the reasons I regained and what I did not do.
I can already tell it will be a struggle at times now too (I've been maintaining a couple of years), but I hope to keep learning. If I regain, I hope to catch it sooner and learn from that too.
I don't consider myself arrogant in not assuming I'm going to fail, and I don't quite see how it would be helpful to assume failure. For a lot of people, assuming failure becomes an excuse not to start.5 -
HeliumIsNoble wrote: »I think asking people not to be smug about their current success, and to have compassion for others, is fair enough. Indeed, it's a lesson I learnt in other areas of my life long since, and however well my weight loss goes, I am never going to sniff in contempt at others' poorer success.
I agree with this, but I didn't notice people NOT being compassionate for others in this current discussion (in others, sure).1 -
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curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Fair enough, but I know myself.
Where your post rubbed me the wrong way was your sure declaration that just about everyone was doomed.
Statistics say that 20% will succeed. I've researched the habits of successful people and made them my own. I've already been through a serious trial and didn't falter.
Time will tell which side of the statistic any of us fall on.
To be fair her original post said most people. A 20% success rate means an 80% fail rate. 80% is most.
I do think being on this site gives us a big advantage with all the knowledge and experience of those who have been successful long-term.
It was most people who got fat as children teens, and then went on to say that the best we all as a group meeting that criteria was either giving up or yo-yoing.
It was rather more defeatist that we had a 20% shot at succeeding.
I find it interesting that no one ever considers the abysmal success of attempts at smoking cessation when quoting statistics around here, but we're married to the failure of weight loss. And yet, I think most of us think of smoking cessation as something most people succeed at. That's because they do. After multiple attempts. The statistics for individual attempts are far worse than those for weight loss, in fact.
I quit smoking 5 years ago. It's a lot easier than staying thin because you don't need to smoke to live. I barely think about it anymore. Whereas keeping weight off requires constant effort for the rest of your life and you can't just quit eating. That's the difference.
No, you missed my point entirely.
I was talking about statistics comparisons.
But if you want to talking about it, I quit smoking for good almost 28 years ago. I had several failed attempts.
This isn't my first weight loss rodeo either.
It is my most well-informed, however.
This has nothing to do with making comparisons on abysmal statistics, though.5 -
I haven't voiced this before because it is very non MFP of me
I believe you can lose weight safely and get all the nutrition required on a VLC (800-900 calories) diet by eating the right (i.e. healthy) foods and cutting out "junk".
With all due respect, you are just plain wrong. There is no scientific study that supports this position and lot's that indicate it doesn't. If you believe this, it could be an indicator of an eating disorder.
If you feel that I am wrong, please support your position with reputable peer reviewed studies.10 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »curiouskate wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Fair enough, but I know myself.
Where your post rubbed me the wrong way was your sure declaration that just about everyone was doomed.
Statistics say that 20% will succeed. I've researched the habits of successful people and made them my own. I've already been through a serious trial and didn't falter.
Time will tell which side of the statistic any of us fall on.
To be fair her original post said most people. A 20% success rate means an 80% fail rate. 80% is most.
I do think being on this site gives us a big advantage with all the knowledge and experience of those who have been successful long-term.
It was most people who got fat as children teens, and then went on to say that the best we all as a group meeting that criteria was either giving up or yo-yoing.
It was rather more defeatist that we had a 20% shot at succeeding.
I find it interesting that no one ever considers the abysmal success of attempts at smoking cessation when quoting statistics around here, but we're married to the failure of weight loss. And yet, I think most of us think of smoking cessation as something most people succeed at. That's because they do. After multiple attempts. The statistics for individual attempts are far worse than those for weight loss, in fact.
I quit smoking 5 years ago. It's a lot easier than staying thin because you don't need to smoke to live. I barely think about it anymore. Whereas keeping weight off requires constant effort for the rest of your life and you can't just quit eating. That's the difference.
No, you missed my point entirely.
I was talking about statistics comparisons.
But if you want to talking about it, I quit smoking for good almost 28 years ago. I had several failed attempts.
This isn't my first weight loss rodeo either.
It is my most well-informed, however.
This has nothing to do with making comparisons on abysmal statistics, though.
Ok but have you ever seen a study that says that people who lose weight over and over eventually succeed to keeping it off? I haven't. Would love to read it if you know of one.2
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