What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?

J72FIT

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:

"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"

That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.

I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.

Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?

What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.

My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.

It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.

They do?

janejellyroll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

If people are getting results and maintaining health and fitness on methods that you consider to be misguided, maybe their methods aren't what is truly misguided here.

SezxyStef

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Are you outside of the US? I am in the US and every grocery store I visit has full fat ice cream, sour cream, milk, and butter. Most of them also have full fat yogurt (I know, because that's the kind my husband prefers).

Every aisle of the grocery store still has full fat versions of products that have reduced fat options. Mayo, cookies, frosting, Pop Tarts, all of these are still available in their regular versions (despite also having lower fat alternatives).

Either you're outside of the US, you don't shop personally, or you are very non-observant.

I'm in Canada... and I assure you I search and even often have to go to more than one store to get "real" foods, especially dairy.

Not sure where you are in Canada either but my grocery store in a very rural town has plenty of choices.

non fat, 1%, 2%, full fat cottage cheese...yogurt etc.

Assuming you live in some northern town in Nunavut.

J72FIT

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

Lol. That's not condescending at all...

mmapags

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:

"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"

That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.

I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.

Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?

What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.

My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.

It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.

Said nobody ever. You are operating under false illusions.

amusedmonkey

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

Except that's NOT the predominant macro composition in countries with the highest obesity rates. I'm not sure what real statistics you're basing that opinion on.

stanmann571

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

OliveGirl128

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

I live in the Midwest and that's not the case at all at the grocery stores around me. They all have a large selection of full fat options.

eta: Back in the day I experimented with a 'paleo' way of eating. I had no problem doing this with store bought food options.

cwolfman13

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

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janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

I use low fat Daisy Sour Cream...

INGREDIENTS
Grade A cultured cream, skim milk, vitamin A palmitate

I eat low fat Fage Greek yogurt...

INGREDIENTS
Grade A Pasteurized Skimmed Milk, Live Active Yogurt Cultures (L Bulgaricus, S Thermophilus, L acidophilus, bifidus, l casei).

Where is the dextrose, maltodextrose, starches of various kinds, and the dozens of thickening agents you can't spell?

The only cheese I've had that was reduced fat was cream cheese...

Reduced fat ingredients:

INGREDIENTS
Pasteurized Nonfat Milk and Milkfat, Whey Protein Concentrate, Cheese Culture, Salt, Stabilizers (Xanthan and/or Carob Bean and/or Guar Gums), Sorbic Acid as a Preservative (Ingredient Not in Regular Cream Cheese), Vitamin A Palmitate.

Full fat ingredients:
INGREDIENTS
PASTEURIZED NONFAT MILK AND MILKFAT, WHEY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, WHEY, CHEESE CULTURE, SALT, CAROB BEAN GUM, XANTHAN GUM, GUAR GUM, SORBIC ACID (AS A PRESERVATIVE), VITAMIN A PALMITATE

One uses non fat milk and the other uses 2%...again, none of the other things you mentioned added.

How are my means misguided? I also eat a lot of full fat stuff as well...I eat a lot of nuts...pretty much an avocado every day...I cook with quality oils and butter, etc...I just typically don't do full fat dairy because I'd rather use those calories elsewhere...I by no means eat a low fat diet nor a high carb diet...I eat a pretty moderate diet and don't really buy into extremes...

jamesakrobinson

stanmann571 wrote: »

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jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

wmd1979

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

"Quoting a source from the internet means nothing if you don't link to the source."

-Abe Lincoln

diannethegeek

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

It's polite to cite your sources: https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-americans-are-obese-nonfat-yogurt

GottaBurnEmAll

J72FIT wrote: »

show previous quotes

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s.

And it's been happening all over again with carbs...

The thing is, fat demonization didn't even work. Fat consumption didn't even go down. I wish I could find that chart I've seen!

janejellyroll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

There are multiple kinds of nonfat yogurt though. It's not like they all have artificial sweeteners added.

I can find whole milk yogurts with sugar and/or fruit added.

There is a wide variety of yogurts and to make this a nonfat versus full fat thing doesn't fit the facts.

jamesakrobinson

diannethegeek wrote: »

show previous quotes

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

It's polite to cite your sources: https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-americans-are-obese-nonfat-yogurt

Sorry, you're quite correct (both of the above posters who pointed out my omission)
There are numerous others as well... and the actual labels on the packaging.

GottaBurnEmAll

janejellyroll wrote: »

show previous quotes

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.

As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.

So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.

Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.

If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?

diannethegeek

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

diannethegeek wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

It's polite to cite your sources: https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-americans-are-obese-nonfat-yogurt

Sorry, you're quite correct (both of the above posters who pointed out my omission)
There are numerous others as well... and the actual labels on the packaging.

The article is using specifically Dannon's Light & Fit yogurt, which is frankly low quality yogurt. It's not indicative of all brands or flavors. It's like saying that you should drink water because some lakes aren't as clean as others. You cannot take one yogurt that's well known for using fillers and apply that to the entire low fat dairy category.

janejellyroll

GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »

show previous quotes

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.

As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.

So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.

Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.

If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?

If you want to talk "natural" and go back in time, you're probably looking at a diet made up mostly of fruit and foraged greens, along with grubs and ants when we can get them. Likely to be much higher carbohydrate than what our newest carbophobe has in mind as ideal.

GottaBurnEmAll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

wmd1979 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:

"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"

That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.

I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.

Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?

What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.

My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.

It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.

Nope. No one who "preaches" CICO implies that those foods have the same nutritional value.

Find me a post where anyone says they do.

They have the same caloric value.

It's the CICO deniers who conflate nutrition and calories, like you just did.

diannethegeek

Unpopular opinion: I really hate dietdoctor.com and the ways that it's promoted as some kind of beacon of enlightenment. Many of its articles are right up there with Food Babe (who was the second search result for the quote above).

janejellyroll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

diannethegeek wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

It's polite to cite your sources: https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-americans-are-obese-nonfat-yogurt

Sorry, you're quite correct (both of the above posters who pointed out my omission)
There are numerous others as well... and the actual labels on the packaging.

People are pointing out that the labels on actual products are proving your point wrong. There are some lower fat dairy products with things added to them along with many that don't. There are also higher fat dairy products that have tons of extra ingredients added. Your distinction is meaningless.

It's a pop nutritional chestnut that lower fat dairy products are full of sugar and additives, but that doesn't mean it is true. The actual product label is a better guide that online misinformation or diet books.

GottaBurnEmAll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

I have read the label on my 2% yogurt. Nothing added.

jamesakrobinson

LMAO
It seems that my "unpopular opinion" is SUPER unpopular!

GottaBurnEmAll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

diannethegeek wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

It's polite to cite your sources: https://www.dietdoctor.com/why-americans-are-obese-nonfat-yogurt

Sorry, you're quite correct (both of the above posters who pointed out my omission)
There are numerous others as well... and the actual labels on the packaging.

And other people have posted brands without those things.

Fage doesn't have anything added to it, for example.

AnnPT77

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

show previous quotes

stanmann571 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

janejellyroll wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

amusedmonkey wrote: »

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

HeliumIsNoble wrote: »

@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.

LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.

Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.

Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)

My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!

Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.

You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.

Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!

The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.

It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.

Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...

Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...

I suggest you read the label

What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.

My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)

Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...

I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.

To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!

I'm out.

NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.

Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources

... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).


Out again

I'd started suspecting that we were hearing "facts" filtered through special-diet advocacy sites & sources, as distinct from "facts" gleaned from actual comparable ingredient lists (such as have been posted here by me & others). Thanks for saving us the trouble of confirming that suspicion.

Aristotle believed women had fewer teeth than men. Bertrand Russell (among others) wondered why Aristotle didn't simply look, and count.

mmapags

diannethegeek wrote: »

Unpopular opinion: I really hate dietdoctor.com and the ways that it's promoted as some kind of beacon of enlightenment. Many of its articles are right up there with Food Babe (who was the second search result for the quote above).

Sorry Diane. I don't think that qualifies as unpopular.

GottaBurnEmAll

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

LMAO
It seems that my "unpopular opinion" is SUPER unpopular!

No, it's just super wrong.

Tacklewasher

Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....

SezxyStef

Tacklewasher wrote: »

Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....

me too...

VintageFeline

jamesakrobinson wrote: »

LMAO
It seems that my "unpopular opinion" is SUPER unpopular!

Unpopular/wrong

Potatoe/potatoh