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What are your unpopular opinions about health / fitness?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.
As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.
So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.
Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.
If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?
If you want to talk "natural" and go back in time, you're probably looking at a diet made up mostly of fruit and foraged greens, along with grubs and ants when we can get them. Likely to be much higher carbohydrate than what our newest carbophobe has in mind as ideal.
ok, i'm not wading into this, because i think it's silly. But let's just point out that hunting and the consumption of meat predates the human species. Our ape ancestors were carnivores. Homo sapiens have never been herbivores, or pure gatherers. We evolved the ability to walk on 2 feet specifically because it made us more successful hunters.
edit: and no, that shouldn't have any bearing at all on what we decide to eat in the 21st century. Sorry Paleoids8 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:
"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"
That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.
I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.
Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?
What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.
My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.
It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.
literally nobody has ever said this. we're 142 pages in and this has been covered ad nauseum.10 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.9 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Was literally about to offer Ben & Jerry's. Can't get any more full fat than that!3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...3 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
You didn't have a lot of success in Debate class, huh?
23 -
jessiferrrb wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:
"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"
That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.
I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.
Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?
What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.
My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.
It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.
literally nobody has ever said this. we're 142 pages in and this has been covered ad nauseum.
Awesome meme! You are correct of course. These latest post from the Low Carb/ Keto advocate are a classic illustration of why people get so resistant to the concept. It's proponents don't just let it stand on it's own as a possible way of eating. There is this need to misrepresent, twist facts, deny facts and do it all with an obnoxious condescension that is really offputting.
I can't find the article right now by James Krieger of Weightology and if someone has it please post. But he essentially states that he poured over all the available research he could find looking to prove that Low carb/ Keto had a metabolic advantage. He thought is must and had a bias to prove it. He couldn't. No system of eating has a metabolic advantage for weight loss and in the end it is CICO for weight loss and good nutrient dense foods for nutrition. End. Of. Story.
Now if a renowned researcher PHD like Krieger can't find one, why am I believing some random guy on the interwebs??12 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.
Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!
The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.
It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.
Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...
Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...
I suggest you read the label
To add to the mountain of examples that you've been elegantly stepping around, my favorite low fat cheese which is btw store brand cause I'm poor so if any brand is gonna add weird stuff to their food to make it edible it would be that.
It has: Milk, salt, acid cultures, rennet.
Just like their regular fat equivalent.5 -
Classic over-simplification of the science and over-complication of the process...4
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janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.
As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.
So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.
Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.
If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?
If you want to talk "natural" and go back in time, you're probably looking at a diet made up mostly of fruit and foraged greens, along with grubs and ants when we can get them. Likely to be much higher carbohydrate than what our newest carbophobe has in mind as ideal.
ok, i'm not wading into this, because i think it's silly. But let's just point out that hunting and the consumption of meat predates the human species. Our ape ancestors were carnivores. Homo sapiens have never been herbivores, or pure gatherers. We evolved the ability to walk on 2 feet specifically because it made us more successful hunters.
edit: and no, that shouldn't have any bearing at all on what we decide to eat in the 21st century. Sorry Paleoids
Oh, I don't doubt that our ancestors ate meat when they could get it and that they could get it with some regularity. It's just that my understanding is that a big portion of the diet would be made up of fruit and greens, supplemented with insects.
I don't think any of our ape ancestors were carnivores (in the sense that they *required* meat to be properly nourished), they were omnivores. Is there an ancestor I'm not thinking of?
And I agree with you -- while I find the conversation incredibly interesting for other reasons, I don't think any of this has a bearing on what we decide to eat today. I find the idea that there is a singular "natural" diet that we should strive to identify and replicate very silly.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.
As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.
So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.
Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.
If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?
If you want to talk "natural" and go back in time, you're probably looking at a diet made up mostly of fruit and foraged greens, along with grubs and ants when we can get them. Likely to be much higher carbohydrate than what our newest carbophobe has in mind as ideal.
ok, i'm not wading into this, because i think it's silly. But let's just point out that hunting and the consumption of meat predates the human species. Our ape ancestors were carnivores. Homo sapiens have never been herbivores, or pure gatherers. We evolved the ability to walk on 2 feet specifically because it made us more successful hunters.
edit: and no, that shouldn't have any bearing at all on what we decide to eat in the 21st century. Sorry Paleoids
Oh, I don't doubt that our ancestors ate meat when they could get it and that they could get it with some regularity. It's just that my understanding is that a big portion of the diet would be made up of fruit and greens, supplemented with insects.
I don't think any of our ape ancestors were carnivores (in the sense that they *required* meat to be properly nourished), they were omnivores. Is there an ancestor I'm not thinking of?
And I agree with you -- while I find the conversation incredibly interesting for other reasons, I don't think any of this has a bearing on what we decide to eat today. I find the idea that there is a singular "natural" diet that we should strive to identify and replicate very silly.
correct, omnivores. I apologize for making the all too common swap and incorrectly using carnivore. I think great apes still eat a lot of fruit.2 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
People with highly specific dietary preferences are often best served by finding recipes that reflect their preferences instead of waiting for their corner of the market to be targeted. I'd be astonished if Pinterest, for example, didn't have a selection of recipes created and used by people who share your nutritional goals.2 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
Ice cream is sugary because it needs to be sugary to be smooth. I make ice cream at home almost exclusively and trust me, if you're going for something less sugary you'll need to add a lot of binders and ingredients which you seem to not like. Ice cream as we know it has always been sugary. Here's a recipe from the 1800s.
1 quart whipped cream sweetened with 3/4 cup icing sugar. Add 1 1/4 cups raspberry jelly slightly melted. Fold in the beaten whites of 5 eggs. Freeze.
You could try making something less sugary at home, but prepare for a more icy consistency. I'm not sure why you're mentioning ice cream as a product you're looking for whole fat since whole fat ice cream is the norm not the exception. There is a reason low calorie ice creams cost an arm and a leg. As for low sugar ice cream, that's a new invention and as far removed from "the good old days when people were eating fat by the buckets and staying thing" as it can get.5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
Ice cream is sugary because it needs to be sugary to be smooth. I make ice cream at home almost exclusively and trust me, if you're going for something less sugary you'll need to add a lot of binders and ingredients which you seem to not like. Ice cream as we know it has always been sugary. Here's a recipe from the 1800s.
1 quart whipped cream sweetened with 3/4 cup icing sugar. Add 1 1/4 cups raspberry jelly slightly melted. Fold in the beaten whites of 5 eggs. Freeze.
You could try making something less sugary at home, but prepare for a more icy consistency. I'm not sure why you're mentioning ice cream as a product you're looking for whole fat since whole fat ice cream is the norm not the exception. There is a reason low calorie ice creams cost an arm and a leg. As for low sugar ice cream, that's a new invention and as far removed from "the good old days when people were eating fat by the buckets and staying thing" as it can get.
Understanding the actual function an ingredient plays in a food can be very useful (for everyday cooking, for understanding substitutions based on nutritional goals/food restrictions, and for understanding why something might be included in a particular commercial product). It doesn't really make sense to complain about the binders in certain ice creams, for example, if you don't understand what other changes to the product may have made them necessary for a satisfactory taste or texture.5 -
The low sugar ice creams are mostly awful.
If I want ice cream it's full fat, regular.
BTW. This is new/limited edition:
It's good!
My UO for the day. "Limited Editions" should not be that. If they're delicious, let us buy them. It's not like Pumpkins, Cookies or Butter are endangered.
12 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
In response to the bold, you are one of the people that you are complaining about. You literally just said:
"Mark my words.
Carbs should be the smallest of your macros. (fats and protein are what you evolved over millions of years to run on)"
That is your opinion that you defend by cherry picking bits and pieces of information yet you you state it as an absolute.
I don't see those statements as necessarily contradictory. They can (are?) both be true.
Or perhaps... I may have softened my stance in light of a couple of well thought out replies which used facts and examples rather than dogma and "bro science" (like CICO) to make a point?
What other "bro science" would you be referring to then if you were being sarcastic when you mentioned CICO? I ask because I didn't see anything but actual logic being used to refute what you were saying. Even if you were being sarcastic, this is your second post in a short time to mention CICO in a negative light. I find that odd especially since you were listing off facts such as climate change earlier. Whether you believe it or not, CICO is fact in relation to weight loss.
My first comment about CICO was to
emphasize that it isn't an absolute. (I said partially bunk) Those who preach CICO imply that a thousand calories of cookies and a thousand calories of fish have the same nutritional value... That's just not correct.
It's part of the equation but it is definitely not nearly as important as the advocates claim.
I'm sure this has been addressed (I haven't caught up to all the new pages this morning), but in regards to the bolded - no, that is not what those who "preach" CICO claim or imply. That is the strawman that is constantly set up by the anti-CICO crowd.
Are the calories the same in regards to energy, and to weight loss/maintenance/gain? YES.
Are they the same nutritionally - well, we can't compare calories nutritionally aside from energy, but the foods the calories come from are very different in regards to nutritional profile. Just about every CICO "preacher" knows this. Usually they say "from a weight perspective, there is no difference, but for overall health and satiety, it is important to get a good balance of nutrition." Because there are so many "OMG I ate a cookie [or a pint of gelato, even] and I'm so scared I'm going to gain back all the weight from my weeks and weeks of hard work now" threads.4 -
pumpkin cookie butter? I need a puking face8
-
amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
Ice cream is sugary because it needs to be sugary to be smooth. I make ice cream at home almost exclusively and trust me, if you're going for something less sugary you'll need to add a lot of binders and ingredients which you seem to not like. Ice cream as we know it has always been sugary. Here's a recipe from the 1800s.
1 quart whipped cream sweetened with 3/4 cup icing sugar. Add 1 1/4 cups raspberry jelly slightly melted. Fold in the beaten whites of 5 eggs. Freeze.
You could try making something less sugary at home, but prepare for a more icy consistency. I'm not sure why you're mentioning ice cream as a product you're looking for whole fat since whole fat ice cream is the norm not the exception. There is a reason low calorie ice creams cost an arm and a leg. As for low sugar ice cream, that's a new invention and as far removed from "the good old days when people were eating fat by the buckets and staying thing" as it can get.
I do make ice cream from time to time and I do find you can make it fairly smooth without being too sweet if you use whipping cream (35%) and a little stevia. A little whey protein isolate for flavour and maybe some dark chocolate bits or some berries for texture...
Word of warning it's really filling that way!2 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
I don't eat frozen yogurt but ice cream sure..Ben and Jerry's...or Hagendaaz or try gelato that's yummy...hell Sobey's has their own Ice cream as does Loblaws...aka superstore...0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.
Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!
The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.
It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.
Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...
Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...
I suggest you read the label
What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.
My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)
Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...
I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.
To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!
I'm out.
But one is supported by repeated scientific study. The other is not.
Guess which one is which.6 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
try gelato perhaps...rich and filling.0 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »LMAO
It seems that my "unpopular ignorant opinion" is SUPER unpopularignorant!
Fixed it for you8 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
I live in cape Breton ns and we lack variety of many things But we definitely have tons of full fat options1 -
1
-
jamesakrobinson wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »Still laughing at the thought of not finding full fat foods in a Canadian grocery store.....
me too...
Can either of you please recommend a full fat FroYo or ice cream then??
I discovered Libertee Mediterranee yogurt which is 10%, or 9% for the flavored ones but not one single full fat frozen yogurt or ice cream. I have an ice cream maker so I make my own from time to time but I would love to just buy one.
You seriously can't find a full fat ice cream? Talenti, Ben and Jerry's, Haggen Daaz, etc., aren't known for being low fat . . .?
I believe that you have difficulty finding a full fat FroYo, since FroYo seems to have been basically invented in response to people being afraid of fat.
Ah... Good point on the ice cream... Those are all a little sugary for my personal tastes though. I was searching for something slightly less "decadent" lol but still fairly high fat...
Ice cream is sugary because it needs to be sugary to be smooth. I make ice cream at home almost exclusively and trust me, if you're going for something less sugary you'll need to add a lot of binders and ingredients which you seem to not like. Ice cream as we know it has always been sugary. Here's a recipe from the 1800s.
1 quart whipped cream sweetened with 3/4 cup icing sugar. Add 1 1/4 cups raspberry jelly slightly melted. Fold in the beaten whites of 5 eggs. Freeze.
You could try making something less sugary at home, but prepare for a more icy consistency. I'm not sure why you're mentioning ice cream as a product you're looking for whole fat since whole fat ice cream is the norm not the exception. There is a reason low calorie ice creams cost an arm and a leg. As for low sugar ice cream, that's a new invention and as far removed from "the good old days when people were eating fat by the buckets and staying thing" as it can get.
I do make ice cream from time to time and I do find you can make it fairly smooth without being too sweet if you use whipping cream (35%) and a little stevia. A little whey protein isolate for flavour and maybe some dark chocolate bits or some berries for texture...
Word of warning it's really filling that way!
I might be a little picky, but when I had blood sugar issues I did attempt making low sugar ice cream. I always use 36% cream, but cut it with whole fat milk for the best balance of richness and taste. I used cream on its own back then to make up for the lower sugar, and no it's not smooth. It gives the illusion of smoothness. It chessels out more like frozen butter than ice cream and if left to melt it tastes like drinking straight cream (which it is). I also tried making ice cream with whey once. The taste of whey is too distinctive and ruins the ice cream (in my own opinion of course, people like what they like). To each their own and people like what they like, but don't pretend just because you have different tastes that store ice cream is low fat or that low sugar ice cream is more "natural".
P.S: Protein isolate is all kinds of processed with additives, artificial flavors, and binders. Sugar is more "natural" that way. Interesting how when carbs are not involved additives are not evil anymore.10 -
jamesakrobinson wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
You think people followed the guidelines? Think again. There is more "I know I shouldn't eat this but..." than meets the eye. You're talking as if people have been eating nothing but rice cakes since the recommendations. From the chart you will notice countries with a whole spectrum of obesity rates at any fat intake level, and in this screenshot in particular all the countries that eat less fat have a lower obesity rate than the US. You can't pin obesity on carbs or the perceived (not real) lack of fat.
Not sure where you live but I have a very difficult time finding full fat yogurt, ice-cream, even sour cream...
The whole dairy isle is low fat, reduced fat, or no fat...
No fat yogurt?? I call that pudding!
The same is true of almost every isle in almost every grocery store here. The fat has been removed and replaced with sugars or chemicals.
It's insidious. The general public thinks they're making healthy choices but they are in fact doing the exact opposite.
Margerine is another great example... butter is full of saturated fat, and is quite healthy but people were convinced that margerine, full of trans dats and devoid of any nutrional value was the healthier choice... That's just a couple examples but there are thousands...
Every grocery store I've been in has varying degrees of fat in dairy from full to none...also, reduced fat dairy products do not add sugar and other chemicals...
I suggest you read the label
What, exactly, do you think is being added to skim milk? Please be specific.
My sincere apologies. I was not implying that removing the milk from the milk, turning into cloudy water adds anything ;-)
Yogurt, ice-cream, sour cream, and cheeses... They add dextrose (sugar), maltodextrose (sugar), starches of various kinds (essentially sugar), dozens of thickening agents that I can't spell, often several variations of salt...
I see that my position gets a few people's hackles up so I will concede that IF you're seeing results from what I consider to be misguided means then GREAT!
Congratulations.
To clarify, I brought up climate change because I think that denying that high carb low fat diets are harmful to the health of the vast majority of the world population is very similar to denying that human activities are accelerating climate change... It was intended as a metaphor, not an implication that the two were somehow related. Some of you got it, well done!
I'm out.
NO, They don't. As demonstrated above.
Ugh... Dragged back in... Quoted from a couple sources
... nonfat yogurt is made from non fat milk (with a high percentage of milk sugar) by adding modified food starch and fructose (fruit sugar) among other things. Then they add some natural and artificial flavors, some preservatives and coloring and three (!) different artificial sweeteners (aspartame, acesulfame K and sucralose).
Out again
So should we read the label like you said or should we ignore the label and trust the random blog post you copy/pasted from?9 -
cmriverside wrote: »The low sugar ice creams are mostly awful.
If I want ice cream it's full fat, regular.
BTW. This is new/limited edition:
It's good!
My UO for the day. "Limited Editions" should not be that. If they're delicious, let us buy them. It's not like Pumpkins, Cookies or Butter are endangered.
*BRB, going to the store to find this*
Tillamook is at least 1/3 of the reason that I moved back to the West Coast 8 -
We have Tillamook smoked sausages here in Ohio. Not sure I've seen anything else, or if it's even the same company.
0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »jamesakrobinson wrote: »HeliumIsNoble wrote: »@jamesakrobinson Koalas and rabbits don't have hooves either and they're herbivores.
LMAO OK
I was just trying to illustrate a point with a bit of levity.
Too many people here seem to think in absolutes. My point has never been that my carnivorous preference is necessarily the "best" way to eat for everyone, nor that it is the only way to get lean. Different people have different metabolisms, and that is almost certainly also influenced by genetics too... where your ancestors evolved (ergo what available foods allowed them the opportunity to thrive and reproduce) and what kind and how much activity you do are huge factors too.
Marathon runners and strength athletes have different needs... and so people don't take those as absolute too... also everything in between or even being sedentary. (in which case I think less calories are a good idea)
My most important point is less about the evils of carbs and much more about the importance of fat!
Demonizing fat is the giant disservice that the US FDA did in the 1970s. That was the biggest instigating factor in starting the obesity and diabetes epidemic that has since begun to spread around the world.
A personal preference is one thing, but you wrote " I don't think a vegetarian lifestyle is healthy or natural for humans." If you're going to make statements like that, people are going to ask what the foundation is.
As far as "natural," it may or may not be. But we know that we reject many things that are "natural" and can be perfectly healthy and happy doing things that are "unnatural." It's an irrelevant category for health.
So when you say it isn't "healthy," what facts are you basing that on? I know you're not basing it on studies of vegetarians and vegans because those studies exist and overall they don't show that they have a higher rate of illness or early death than non-vegans and vegetarians.
Oh hey as for natural, long before we evolved to eat meat, we were all eating all plants, all the time.
If people want to go way, way back, why not go all way?
If you want to talk "natural" and go back in time, you're probably looking at a diet made up mostly of fruit and foraged greens, along with grubs and ants when we can get them. Likely to be much higher carbohydrate than what our newest carbophobe has in mind as ideal.
ok, i'm not wading into this, because i think it's silly. But let's just point out that hunting and the consumption of meat predates the human species. Our ape ancestors were carnivores. Homo sapiens have never been herbivores, or pure gatherers. We evolved the ability to walk on 2 feet specifically because it made us more successful hunters.
edit: and no, that shouldn't have any bearing at all on what we decide to eat in the 21st century. Sorry Paleoids
No.
Signed, Archaeologist.15
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