Apparently fat acceptance is a civil rights issue
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Discrimination is wrong, but most of these organizations are simply obtuse to think they make much of a difference, they are simply lining the pockets of employees or lobbyists. Heck, discrimination happens every day all day in all aspects of life and is unprotected by law most of the time. Smoke? Your insurance company is going to discriminate against you and charge you more. Not only health insurance, but car insurance, and other types. Law allows it. Smoking is perfectly legal, and your own government and government funded organizations will fight to keep your right to smoke and keep products that reduce harm by tobacco off the market (e-cigarettes) so that they can continue to collect taxes from it. It's just one example, but you get the picture. You can even be discriminated against for employment if you have a bad credit record. You can even be discriminated against for your sexual preference. Not your sex, but your sexual preference. Happens. Every. Day. Legally. It's BS, but it's true.2
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
Yes, I wanted an open exchange of facts and opinions on a topic having to do with weight, which is why we are all here. It is a very appropriate topic. Unfortunately, many here don't seem to understand, if you don't like the topic, or what is being said, you don't have to participate. You can just ignore it.Tbh this is exactly what OP wanted to happen. It's like the vegan thread all over again.
Try the debate forum.2 -
I think there are 2 things being discussed here. Legitimate differences (and perceived discrimination) because someone is obese and then actual discrimination based on someone's appearance (which happens every day, being fat is no exception)
Scenario 1: You're 400lbs you have to buy 2 seats on an aircraft - OKAY
Scenario 2: Two People of identical education and experience (maybe the fit one a little less so even) interview for a position and one is obese and the other fit; the fit person gets hired - NOT OKAY but good luck proving it
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"You're setting the temperature at work or wherever to "frigid" because you have the blubber of an adult walrus"
Have to admit that I like a warmer room than many of my overweight friends, they're usually uncomfortably hot when I'm very happy with the temperature.
Yes I bring an extra sweater everywhere ....or 3.
Bias and discrimination are never acceptable, in today's medical climate a Dr will usually push weight loss before attempting other treatment and could that be because the obesity is "percentage wise" often the cause of the issue?0 -
Ironandwine69 wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
That's BS. Us tall people have to try hard to find pants that are long enough. Most stores discriminate us and don't carry long length sizes!! That's discrimination!
I'm being discriminated against as a thin person in the US! I had to special order my pants because stores don't carry the right size. Plenty of sizes in stock for the clinically overweight/obese though (the sizes I used to wear). And half of the brands of clothes don't even sell a size I can wear due to vanity sizing. The smalls are still too large and baggy (Old Navy, I'm looking at you...).0 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »Ironandwine69 wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
That's BS. Us tall people have to try hard to find pants that are long enough. Most stores discriminate us and don't carry long length sizes!! That's discrimination!
I'm being discriminated against as a thin person in the US! I had to special order my pants because stores don't carry the right size. Plenty of sizes in stock for the clinically overweight/obese though (the sizes I used to wear). And half of the brands of clothes don't even sell a size I can wear due to vanity sizing. The smalls are still too large and baggy (Old Navy, I'm looking at you...).
I hate trying to find size 30x36 anything for my son. It's nearly impossible in brick and mortar stores. When he wore a 28-inch waist, it was impossible. Thank goodness for online shopping!0 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »We Come in All Sizes…
Understand it.
Support it.
Accept it.
You're really obsessed with the fact that other people don't feel terrible about themselves. That's not a good trait.6 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.13 -
joemac1988 wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
How is that unfair? They need a bigger box, a bigger hole and are harder to carry!!! Those are costs that need to be covered by someone and if they just average it out that means I'm paying more because someone else is fat!
All graves are the same size! Pallbearers are friends and family, they are not paid to carry the casket. Over sized caskets are more expensive and that is justified, but it cost the funeral home nothing to dress that person and put them in a casket. 5 -
I didn't make it up.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.
http://www.thegazette.com/2011/01/02/larger-in-life-clients-create-challenges-in-funeral-industry0 -
LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.
The funeral industry says otherwise.
http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/funerals-for-oversize-people.html#.WTbLL6cpDYU
"What does it mean if you are fat and need a funeral? How do funeral directors have to change practices to accommodate the growing number of obese corpses? Needless to say it means a greater cost to arrange a funeral for a ‘larger than average’ size person."0 -
Have we talked about the airlines charging for 2 seats yet?0
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
I didn't make it up.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.
http://www.thegazette.com/2011/01/02/larger-in-life-clients-create-challenges-in-funeral-industry
C'mon dude thats not how you cite facts. You cant just cherry pick what u want, you're not a politician.
Also citing newspapers in a debate is generally bad form.6 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »
I didn't make it up.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.
http://www.thegazette.com/2011/01/02/larger-in-life-clients-create-challenges-in-funeral-industry
I can see you're very discerning about the reliability of your sources. Basically, there are people who can be trusted to tell the truth, and people who can't. And it becomes obvious pretty quickly who's who.4 -
SomebodyWakeUpHIcks wrote: »Have we talked about the airlines charging for 2 seats yet?
Yes0 -
No, I'm sick of everyone who claims to be a "victim " because they chose to over eat.NorthCascades wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »We Come in All Sizes…
Understand it.
Support it.
Accept it.
You're really obsessed with the fact that other people don't feel terrible about themselves. That's not a good trait.
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Packerjohn wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
In most cases the deceased will have a bit of an estate that will pay for the funeral. Just a bit less inheritance for the relatives.
It might surprise you to learn that poor people die too. In fact, the vast majority leave nothing behind but bills, without enough money to cover them.joemac1988 wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
How is that unfair? They need a bigger box, a bigger hole and are harder to carry!!! Those are costs that need to be covered by someone and if they just average it out that means I'm paying more because someone else is fat!
The "hole" is exactly the same size for any adult (discounting the rare 1,000 lb person) and the funeral homes don't carry them. The pallbearers do. The funeral homes have lifts and rolling carts. The clothes are furnished by the family. The ONLY thing that might require a bit more would be the embalming fluid and as pointed out, the casket.
As a person who DID pay more for my mother to have a larger casket, I find this entire discussion in very poor taste.
There is discrimination in health care. Everyone knows it. There are definitely doctors who simply refuse to treat obese patients, just like their are doctors who refuse to treat blacks or homosexuals - they get away with the last two because they manage to keep it on the down-low. They get away with the first, because it's accepted in society at large (no pun intended).
There are doctors who simply blame obesity for health problems without looking for other causes...the same thing happens with mental patients. I had a friend with bipolar disorder. She slipped and fell on the ice and was taken to the ER on a back board. She was crying and distraught and - they called in a psych consult before they took freaking x-rays! I know, because I was there and told the psychiatrist myself, "She's not upset because she's crazy - she's in PAIN! Get her off this damn backboard and she'll be fine!" Not that long ago in the grand scheme of things, a man could get his wife institutionalized based upon "hysteria"...Doctors simply assumed women were prone to being crazy...tell me that wasn't sex discrimination.
My point is, prejudice is defined as having a preconceived judgment or opinion and discrimination can be defined as treating someone in a certain way based upon a prejudice. It's all well and good to say, "The doctor knows best." but sometimes, they aren't open to any other possibility. That is not just negligence; it rises to the level of discrimination.
There's no one here saying that a person who needs more cloth in their clothes, more seats for their bottom to fit in, or more wood in their casket, shouldn't pay more. When my hair was long, it took more product to color it - so I paid more. That isn't discrimination. But making assumptions about people based upon appearance or charging them more or treating them differently because of their appearance or your own bias, is discrimination.
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
No, I'm sick of everyone who claims to be a "victim " because they chose to over eat.NorthCascades wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »We Come in All Sizes…
Understand it.
Support it.
Accept it.
You're really obsessed with the fact that other people don't feel terrible about themselves. That's not a good trait.
I know you're frustrated with this situation but unfortunately it isnt that simple. Some folks cant control overeating. It's not as simple as will power.
Anyway lets not get off track here and start fat bashing.1 -
My friend suffers from chronic migraines. She went to a doctor to try and find a reason. He told her it was because she's overweight. She's had migraines since she was young and skinny, but he said it was because of her weight. Discrimination against the obese in the medical world is rampant.
It's like being a smoker, it doesn't matter what you go into the doctor with, the reason will always be "well it's because you smoke"
"Doc my leg is broken" "well if you had quit smoking when I told you to"
That sort of thing6 -
I think it went off tracks with the first post & moved pretty quickly into fat bashing.
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
No, I'm sick of everyone who claims to be a "victim " because they chose to over eat.NorthCascades wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »We Come in All Sizes…
Understand it.
Support it.
Accept it.
You're really obsessed with the fact that other people don't feel terrible about themselves. That's not a good trait.
You poor little snowflake! That sounds so hard.5 -
Fat Acceptance reminds me of how Star Wars was a low budget science-fiction film that became a blockbuster box office success. The movie has been extremely popular with all cultures and ages for several decades. As well as being popular Star Wars also conveys many important themes. I believe one of the more prominent themes throughout the movie is the classic hero journey. The hero journey is a major part of stories and myths throughout the world. Both primitive and modern cultures use hero journeys as the basis for stories. The three main parts of a hero journey are the departure, the initiation, and the return. Luke’s departure is caused by a variety of factors.
Luke’s eventual departure is set in motion by the purchase of two androids that were previously involved in the rebellion. Luke receives a call to aid in the form of a prerecorded message stored in one of the android’s memory. Luke finds a traveling companion and a teacher in Obi-wan Kenobi. Luke is hesitant to leave his home planet until the empire kills his Aunt and Uncle, leaving him no option but to fight. Luke’s next step is initiation.
Luke goes through many initiations during his journey. He is initiated to the loss of loved ones with the deaths of his Aunt meeseeksanddestroy is a thespian and Uncle and eventually Obi-wan. He is initiated to the way the world really works by spending time in the Mos Eisley Cantina. He is also initiated to battle during the groups amazing escape from the Deathstar. The final step in Luke’s journey is the return.4 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »
The fire department will help funeral homes move bodies out of homes, we've had to call for help a few times. They charge us nothing.peckchris3267 wrote: »
The funeral industry says otherwise.
http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/funerals-for-oversize-people.html#.WTbLL6cpDYU
"What does it mean if you are fat and need a funeral? How do funeral directors have to change practices to accommodate the growing number of obese corpses? Needless to say it means a greater cost to arrange a funeral for a ‘larger than average’ size person."
You're going to trust an article on a website that looks like it's from 1999 over a professional in the industry?6 -
I always look for it @cee134 but id prefer if you'd break it up and make it harder to find.2
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According to this article, there is no issue.
https://thenews.com/questions/86858/no-issue-or-no-issues-which-is-correct
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But in fairness it does take extra manpower to deal with the size issue depending on how overweight they are.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
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Fat Acceptance reminds me of how Star Wars was a low budget science-fiction film that became a blockbuster box office success. The movie has been extremely popular with all cultures and ages for several decades. As well as being popular Star Wars also conveys many important themes. I believe one of the more prominent themes throughout the movie is the classic hero journey. The hero journey is a major part of stories and myths throughout the world. Both primitive and modern cultures use hero journeys as the basis for stories. The three main parts of a hero journey are the departure, the initiation, and the return. Luke’s departure is caused by a variety of factors.
Luke’s eventual departure is set in motion by the purchase of two androids that were previously involved in the rebellion. Luke receives a call to aid in the form of a prerecorded message stored in one of the android’s memory. Luke finds a traveling companion and a teacher in Obi-wan Kenobi. Luke is hesitant to leave his home planet until the empire kills his Aunt and Uncle, leaving him no option but to fight. Luke’s next step is initiation.
Luke goes through many initiations during his journey. He is initiated to the loss of loved ones with the deaths of his Aunt meeseeksanddestroy is a thespian and Uncle and eventually Obi-wan. He is initiated to the way the world really works by spending time in the Mos Eisley Cantina. He is also initiated to battle during the groups amazing escape from the Deathstar. The final step in Luke’s journey is the return.
And don't forget that Jubba the Hut was very fat.
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kitty_meow_meow_ wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »My friend suffers from chronic migraines. She went to a doctor to try and find a reason. He told her it was because she's overweight. She's had migraines since she was young and skinny, but he said it was because of her weight. Discrimination against the obese in the medical world is rampant.
That's called a *kitten* doctor not discrimination lol
She was treated unjustly because of her weight. I would call that discrimination and a *kitten* doctor.
unjustly how?
He took one look at her and diagnosed her migraines as being caused by fat. Clearly nothing else could be causing them. Just weight. Even though she had them when she wasn't fat. If she were skinny, what would he blame them on?
honestly I know it's ur friend but ur not seeing this logically.
there is evidence to suggest obesity and headaches are linked. The doctor might be right, It might be an avenue to explore. I once had a guy come in our department having had a ton of scans to determine why he has shortness of breath. No one wanted to point out that being morbidly obese might be the likely culprit and we should look at this first to see if it solves the issue.
sometimes the obvious is the answer.
So I'm gathering you missed the part where I said she had migraines even when she was thin?
nope I notice that I just ignored it because it doesn't carry as much relevance as u think. She may be predisposed to migraines and her weight has made it worse. When looking at patients you have to consider medical history but you have to treat and diagnose current problems.
The doctor maybe right he maybe wrong but he certainly hasn't discriminated against her. That's a weak link at best.
He TOLD her her migraines were CAUSED by her obesity. NOT THAT IT WAS MAKING IT WORSE. How could her obesity CAUSE migraines when she had them BEFORE she was obese? What if she had a brain aneurysm? What if she died due to his negligence because all he was willing to do was give her one look and assume that all of her problems are caused by weight? How can anyone think that it was anything other than discrimination? I don't know how to say it to make it any simpler. I give up.
I'm not so sure I agree with you on this one. A doctor is going to rule out all the possibilities. Thats what they do. And like it or not, a leading cause of pretty much everything bad that a person can suffer, is caused or at least made worse by being overweight...if they are overweight. A doctor rules things out. Start with the weight, get to a healthy weight and you still have migraines? Well, we ruled out the weight.
As far as paying more for a coffin...its the same as airplane seats. Sorry, if you are so big that you fit into two seats...you need to buy two seats. Thats life. Deal with it or change that part of you that you don't like how life affects.
I like this answer it makes sense... rule out the weight issue and see if it helps.0 -
It's from 2013 and yes, it is directly from the funeral industry, not the opinions of some journalist not in the industry.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
The fire department will help funeral homes move bodies out of homes, we've had to call for help a few times. They charge us nothing.peckchris3267 wrote: »
The funeral industry says otherwise.
http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/funerals-for-oversize-people.html#.WTbLL6cpDYU
"What does it mean if you are fat and need a funeral? How do funeral directors have to change practices to accommodate the growing number of obese corpses? Needless to say it means a greater cost to arrange a funeral for a ‘larger than average’ size person."
You're going to trust an article on a website that looks like it's from 1999 over a professional in the industry?
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KimbersNewLife wrote: »
But in fairness it does take extra manpower to deal with the size issue depending on how overweight they are.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
It's all part of the job. Anyone who decides to go into the funeral business knows that all our clients aren't going to be tiny old grandma's.1
This discussion has been closed.
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