Apparently fat acceptance is a civil rights issue
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LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
In most cases the deceased will have a bit of an estate that will pay for the funeral. Just a bit less inheritance for the relatives.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
In most cases the deceased will have a bit of an estate that will pay for the funeral. Just a bit less inheritance for the relatives.
yeah, but c'mon now, it's still wrong; don't cha think?0 -
So, we don't have to judge based on anecdotal evidence. There is research on sizeism (discrimination based on someone's size). Here are some popular articles, most of which cite actual research studies by psychologists, and medical professionals, among others:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/size-discrimination-facts/
http://listverse.com/2013/09/27/10-frightening-ways-we-discriminate-against-fat-people/
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061210/the-hidden-discrimination-against-being-fat-at-work
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/16/fatmicroaggressions-fat-shaming-tweets_n_4453060.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201207/prejudice-against-fat-people
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/10/glutton_intolerance.html
We know that it is very, very hard to lose weight. And many people lose weight, only to regain it later. This is my third time on this site, because I've lost 64lbs twice before. My body really, really wants to be back here at this much higher weight. Society tends to assume fat people are lazy, indulgent, and stupid. We know that this is not true. Fatness is just a state of being, not a statement on who you are. But we are a judgmental society. And we are a fastpaced society, so that first impression carries a lot of information, and those deep subconscious beliefs are hard to eradicate. We may not think we are biased against people of different races, ethnic backgrounds, religious beliefs, economic levels, education levels, but in a pressure situation (and sometimes not so pressurized), those deep seated biases emerge.
Okay, we can all go back to being snarky now
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So, we don't have to judge based on anecdotal evidence. There is research on sizeism (discrimination based on someone's size). Here are some popular articles, most of which cite actual research studies by psychologists, and medical professionals, among others:
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/size-discrimination-facts/
http://listverse.com/2013/09/27/10-frightening-ways-we-discriminate-against-fat-people/
https://www.fastcompany.com/3061210/the-hidden-discrimination-against-being-fat-at-work
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/16/fatmicroaggressions-fat-shaming-tweets_n_4453060.html
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201207/prejudice-against-fat-people
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2009/10/glutton_intolerance.html
We know that it is very, very hard to lose weight. And many people lose weight, only to regain it later. This is my third time on this site, because I've lost 64lbs twice before. My body really, really wants to be back here at this much higher weight. Society tends to assume fat people are lazy, indulgent, and stupid. We know that this is not true. Fatness is just a state of being, not a statement on who you are. But we are a judgmental society. And we are a fastpaced society, so that first impression carries a lot of information, and those deep subconscious beliefs are hard to eradicate. We may not think we are biased against people of different races, ethnic backgrounds, religious beliefs, economic levels, education levels, but in a pressure situation (and sometimes not so pressurized), those deep seated biases emerge.
Okay, we can all go back to being snarky now
It's great that there is research out there for this type of thing and no one is debated the existence of it. It's just in this situation I don't believe any discrimination has occurred. all we have is anecdotal evidence.0 -
I really don't care how much somebody weighs but I really hate sitting next to obese people on airplanes; that's the only time it bothers me.
If someone neglects their health and gains an excessive amount of weight, that's their deal, not mine. Just don't ask me to pay for their healthcare.4 -
Larger caskets cost more. That isn't discrimination.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
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Then there is the scientific research;MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »My friend suffers from chronic migraines. She went to a doctor to try and find a reason. He told her it was because she's overweight. She's had migraines since she was young and skinny, but he said it was because of her weight. Discrimination against the obese in the medical world is rampant.
That's called a *kitten* doctor not discrimination lol
She was treated unjustly because of her weight. I would call that discrimination and a *kitten* doctor.
unjustly how?
He took one look at her and diagnosed her migraines as being caused by fat. Clearly nothing else could be causing them. Just weight. Even though she had them when she wasn't fat. If she were skinny, what would he blame them on?
honestly I know it's ur friend but ur not seeing this logically.
there is evidence to suggest obesity and headaches are linked. The doctor might be right, It might be an avenue to explore. I once had a guy come in our department having had a ton of scans to determine why he has shortness of breath. No one wanted to point out that being morbidly obese might be the likely culprit and we should look at this first to see if it solves the issue.
sometimes the obvious is the answer.
So I'm gathering you missed the part where I said she had migraines even when she was thin?
nope I notice that I just ignored it because it doesn't carry as much relevance as u think. She may be predisposed to migraines and her weight has made it worse. When looking at patients you have to consider medical history but you have to treat and diagnose current problems.
The doctor maybe right he maybe wrong but he certainly hasn't discriminated against her. That's a weak link at best.
He TOLD her her migraines were CAUSED by her obesity. NOT THAT IT WAS MAKING IT WORSE. How could her obesity CAUSE migraines when she had them BEFORE she was obese? What if she had a brain aneurysm? What if she died due to his negligence because all he was willing to do was give her one look and assume that all of her problems are caused by weight? How can anyone think that it was anything other than discrimination? I don't know how to say it to make it any simpler. I give up.
"researchers from Johns Hopkins recruited 3,862 adults to examine this issue, and concluded that people with a high body mass index (BMI) indicating overweight or obesity were 81 percent more likely to have episodic migraines (those that occur 0 to 14 days per month) than were people with a lower body mass index. The study found that this association with weight was particularly true among women under 50 (their episodic migraine risk was three times higher than men’s). It also showed that as BMI went up, so did the chance of developing migraineresearchers from Johns Hopkins recruited 3,862 adults to examine this issue, and concluded that people with a high body mass index (BMI) indicating overweight or obesity were 81 percent more likely to have episodic migraines (those that occur 0 to 14 days per month) than were people with a lower body mass index. The study found that this association with weight was particularly true among women under 50 (their episodic migraine risk was three times higher than men’s). It also showed that as BMI went up, so did the chance of developing migraine."1 -
It takes months for estates to be settled, not days.Packerjohn wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
In most cases the deceased will have a bit of an estate that will pay for the funeral. Just a bit less inheritance for the relatives.0 -
There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.5
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Likewise. Took the bait.1
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Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
Then there is the scientific research;MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »MrStabbems wrote: »My friend suffers from chronic migraines. She went to a doctor to try and find a reason. He told her it was because she's overweight. She's had migraines since she was young and skinny, but he said it was because of her weight. Discrimination against the obese in the medical world is rampant.
That's called a *kitten* doctor not discrimination lol
She was treated unjustly because of her weight. I would call that discrimination and a *kitten* doctor.
unjustly how?
He took one look at her and diagnosed her migraines as being caused by fat. Clearly nothing else could be causing them. Just weight. Even though she had them when she wasn't fat. If she were skinny, what would he blame them on?
honestly I know it's ur friend but ur not seeing this logically.
there is evidence to suggest obesity and headaches are linked. The doctor might be right, It might be an avenue to explore. I once had a guy come in our department having had a ton of scans to determine why he has shortness of breath. No one wanted to point out that being morbidly obese might be the likely culprit and we should look at this first to see if it solves the issue.
sometimes the obvious is the answer.
So I'm gathering you missed the part where I said she had migraines even when she was thin?
nope I notice that I just ignored it because it doesn't carry as much relevance as u think. She may be predisposed to migraines and her weight has made it worse. When looking at patients you have to consider medical history but you have to treat and diagnose current problems.
The doctor maybe right he maybe wrong but he certainly hasn't discriminated against her. That's a weak link at best.
He TOLD her her migraines were CAUSED by her obesity. NOT THAT IT WAS MAKING IT WORSE. How could her obesity CAUSE migraines when she had them BEFORE she was obese? What if she had a brain aneurysm? What if she died due to his negligence because all he was willing to do was give her one look and assume that all of her problems are caused by weight? How can anyone think that it was anything other than discrimination? I don't know how to say it to make it any simpler. I give up.
"researchers from Johns Hopkins recruited 3,862 adults to examine this issue, and concluded that people with a high body mass index (BMI) indicating overweight or obesity were 81 percent more likely to have episodic migraines (those that occur 0 to 14 days per month) than were people with a lower body mass index. The study found that this association with weight was particularly true among women under 50 (their episodic migraine risk was three times higher than men’s). It also showed that as BMI went up, so did the chance of developing migraineresearchers from Johns Hopkins recruited 3,862 adults to examine this issue, and concluded that people with a high body mass index (BMI) indicating overweight or obesity were 81 percent more likely to have episodic migraines (those that occur 0 to 14 days per month) than were people with a lower body mass index. The study found that this association with weight was particularly true among women under 50 (their episodic migraine risk was three times higher than men’s). It also showed that as BMI went up, so did the chance of developing migraine."
Never mind all of the other migraine triggers.
For a provider to simply inform a patient that episodic migraines are triggered by BMI without any further examination of lifestyle and potential triggers is laughable.
Does a higher BMI make one more susceptible to migraine? Evidently so.
However, there is no need to rule out: Stress, Menses, Changes in Weather, Depression, Many Different Food Triggers.... to name a few.
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CoffeeAndContour wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
True, but is it really discrimination?Ironandwine69 wrote: »Diets don't fail. People do.
With that said, discrimination of any kind is wrong
Is having to buy two plane tickets because you take up two seats discrimination?
Is not being allowed on a zip line because you exceed the weight limit discrimination?
You're talking apples and oranges.
They're both fruit...0 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
That's BS. Us tall people have to try hard to find pants that are long enough. Most stores discriminate us and don't carry long length sizes!! That's discrimination!5 -
But extra costs are incurred, more embalming fluid is used and fat people are the reason they have had to buy these lifts that cost up to $25,000.MrStabbems wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »JerSchmare wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
It costs more. The box needs to be bigger, or whatever. That isn't discrimination. It seems to me that many people don't understand what discrimination really is.
I wasn't talking about caskets. Yes, oversize caskets do cost more because of extra material, but there are funeral homes who have an additional fees for embalming, dressing, and placing overweight individuals in caskets. It isn't fair because we use a lift to put people in caskets whether they weigh 90 lbs or 500 lbs. It's bad enough the person is dead, charging the family more because of their loved ones weight is like rubbing salt in an open wound.
This is discrimination. @FeraFilia said it earlier, additional charge where no extra cost occurred.
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http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealthNews/story?id=8347950
Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/SIOW/2011/09/why-are-short-people-discriminated-against.html
https://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/35885/the-long-and-short-of-height-discrimination-under-the-ada
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1344817
http://www.employment-studies.co.uk/news/heightism-unacknowledged-bias
And there are many, many more.1 -
Ironandwine69 wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
That's BS. Us tall people have to try hard to find pants that are long enough. Most stores discriminate us and don't carry long length sizes!! That's discrimination!
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealthNews/story?id=8347950
http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/SIOW/2011/09/why-are-short-people-discriminated-against.html
https://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/35885/the-long-and-short-of-height-discrimination-under-the-ada
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1344817
http://www.employment-studies.co.uk/news/heightism-unacknowledged-bias
And there are many, many more1 -
Yes, I wanted an open exchange of facts and opinions on a topic having to do with weight, which is why we are all here. It is a very appropriate topic. Unfortunately, many here don't seem to understand, if you don't like the topic, or what is being said, you don't have to participate. You can just ignore it.Tbh this is exactly what OP wanted to happen. It's like the vegan thread all over again.
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I provided 6 links from various sources backing up my statement but apparently someone decided to delete them. Google it yourself.
Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
How is that unfair? They need a bigger box, a bigger hole and are harder to carry!!! Those are costs that need to be covered by someone and if they just average it out that means I'm paying more because someone else is fat!2 -
joemac1988 wrote: »LittleHearseDriver wrote: »Overweight people are discriminated against, I've seen it in my own field. There are funeral homes who charge extra for people who are obese which isn't fair because families cannot help how much their loved one weighs.
How is that unfair? They need a bigger box, a bigger hole and are harder to carry!!! Those are costs that need to be covered by someone and if they just average it out that means I'm paying more because someone else is fat!
Same as you pay more to color your hair when you have LONG hair.
The end.4 -
I'm fine with people being fat as long as it doesn't affect other people. Examples:
- You're flowing into my airplane seat. If you take a percentage of the space I paid for, you should pay me that percentage.
- My health insurance/hospital/general medical costs are higher because the costs are averaged so I'm carrying you financially
- You're not taking a handicapped space from someone who is actually handicapped.
- You're blocking a whole store aisle in the motorized wheelchair because your knees weren't designed to carry the weight of 3 people
- You're setting the temperature at work or wherever to "frigid" because you have the blubber of an adult walrus
- And so on.
Go ahead, be fat and I'll happily accept it. Just don't impose that decision on me. And for the record, same goes for other things like smoking. You want to smoke? Fine. Throw you butt out the window though and I'll do my best to throw it back on your lap. You want to drive slow? Go ahead. Do it in the outside lane and I'll push you out of the way.5 -
joemac1988 wrote: »I'm fine with people being fat as long as it doesn't affect other people. Examples:
- You're flowing into my airplane seat. If you take a percentage of the space I paid for, you should pay me that percentage.
- My health insurance/hospital/general medical costs are higher because the costs are averaged so I'm carrying you financially
- You're not taking a handicapped space from someone who is actually handicapped.
- You're blocking a whole store aisle in the motorized wheelchair because your knees weren't designed to carry the weight of 3 people
- You're setting the temperature at work or wherever to "frigid" because you have the blubber of an adult walrus
- And so on.
Go ahead, be fat and I'll happily accept it. Just don't impose that decision on me. And for the record, same goes for other things like smoking. You want to smoke? Fine. Throw you butt out the window though and I'll do my best to throw it back on your lap. You want to drive slow? Go ahead. Do it in the outside lane and I'll push you out of the way.
This! Truth.
I don't care who does what to their body and I don't judge... believe me I was large years ago too.
But here's an example of what the poster above is saying:
Every month I pay my $80 to ride the train to and from work. Now granted there isn't always a seat available on the train and that's OK. Also, I am the first one to get up for an elderly or handicapped person to sit. But when someone is taking up 2 seats because of their size/weight? Or if someone is sitting in priority/handicapped seating because they are obese??? F-that!
The other day there was ONE seat left on the train, I walked over to sit there and two hugely obese women on either side of the empty seat, each taking up a seat and a half, gave me that narrow eyed look that said "yeah I'm fat, deal with it"! I was so pissed....
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I'd be widely accepted during winter months then0
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Those are proof that there is discrimination against short people. It's NOT proof that they are discriminated more than fat people. Where's the actual link for that? There are lots of countries where people are short (Asian countries), but height isn't discriminated against, but being fat........oh yeah. So again where's your source stating that short people are MORE discriminated against than fat people? Sound more like your OPINION to cater to your thread.peckchris3267 wrote: »
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MensHealthNews/story?id=8347950
Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
http://www.personal.psu.edu/afr3/blogs/SIOW/2011/09/why-are-short-people-discriminated-against.html
https://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/35885/the-long-and-short-of-height-discrimination-under-the-ada
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1344817
http://www.employment-studies.co.uk/news/heightism-unacknowledged-bias
And there are many, many more.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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They didn't disappear. And telling me to Google it myself isn't my duty. When you make a claim, burden of proof is on you to provide it. Thems the rules of debate in case you didn't know. And NO they didn't back up your statement which was:peckchris3267 wrote: »
I provided 6 links from various sources backing up my statement but apparently someone decided to delete them. Google it yourself.
Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
"There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short."
Still waiting for proof of that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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OutOfUserName wrote: »joemac1988 wrote: »I'm fine with people being fat as long as it doesn't affect other people. Examples:
- You're flowing into my airplane seat. If you take a percentage of the space I paid for, you should pay me that percentage.
- My health insurance/hospital/general medical costs are higher because the costs are averaged so I'm carrying you financially
- You're not taking a handicapped space from someone who is actually handicapped.
- You're blocking a whole store aisle in the motorized wheelchair because your knees weren't designed to carry the weight of 3 people
- You're setting the temperature at work or wherever to "frigid" because you have the blubber of an adult walrus
- And so on.
Go ahead, be fat and I'll happily accept it. Just don't impose that decision on me. And for the record, same goes for other things like smoking. You want to smoke? Fine. Throw you butt out the window though and I'll do my best to throw it back on your lap. You want to drive slow? Go ahead. Do it in the outside lane and I'll push you out of the way.
so what about you turning the heat up on cold days coz your skinny as s has no fat to insulate you? that works both ways right? lmaooo!
You should bring a snuggie to work.
Preferably the cheetah print.2 -
Since obesity has been declared a disease. The ADA has provided legal protections from discrimination.
They didn't disappear. And telling me to Google it myself isn't my duty. When you make a claim, burden of proof is on you to provide it. Thems the rules of debate in case you didn't know. And NO they didn't back up your statement which was:peckchris3267 wrote: »
I provided 6 links from various sources backing up my statement but apparently someone decided to delete them. Google it yourself.
Link a source for this. And while I don't disagree about "choice" there are some cultures in the world where fat is a DESIRED trait.peckchris3267 wrote: »There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
"There is more discrimination towards short people than there is towards fat people and short people have no choice about being short."
Still waiting for proof of that.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23592654/
There are no such protections for short people and I have provided several links showing that the short are discriminated against. The short have absolutely no legal recourse, the fat do.
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"Last week, the American Medical Association voted to classify obesity as a disease. In one day, 78 million American adults and 12 million American children were deemed to have a medical condition that needs treatment. The decision was controversial to say the least.Jun 24, 2013"0
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