Apparently fat acceptance is a civil rights issue
Replies
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peckchris3267 wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
It's from 2013 and yes, it is directly from the funeral industry, not the opinions of some journalist not in the industry.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
The fire department will help funeral homes move bodies out of homes, we've had to call for help a few times. They charge us nothing.peckchris3267 wrote: »
The funeral industry says otherwise.
http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/funerals-for-oversize-people.html#.WTbLL6cpDYU
"What does it mean if you are fat and need a funeral? How do funeral directors have to change practices to accommodate the growing number of obese corpses? Needless to say it means a greater cost to arrange a funeral for a ‘larger than average’ size person."
You're going to trust an article on a website that looks like it's from 1999 over a professional in the industry?
So someone who works in the industry is wrong? Yet, someone who writes a dated article on the internet is right?
Here's some of the things that are incorrect about how you referenced your sources.- You did not check the sources of your reference article. The article doesn't say where it got the cost of a funeral for someone overweight nor does it compare it too anywhere else in the nation.
- Also, you need to use more recent references as information changes over time. For example, a DVD player used to cost $1000, now it cost $20, but if I referenced an article from 1997, I would think I was correct if I told someone a DVD player cost $1000.
Therefor if someone who sold DVD players told me I was wrong and I did only dated research I would think I was correct when I wasn't.
There are many, many articles out there that contradict what you are saying and make complete sense.
"Embalming the Obese
Apr 25, 2014
(redacted for long quote)
Tl;DR - funeral workers and the families of the deceased must shell out extra money and put in extra time to accommodate the obese."
so . . . the anecdotal experience of this redditor is more valid than the anecdotal experience of our @LittleHearseDriver
1 - You did not check the sources of your reference article. The article doesn't say where it got the cost of a funeral for someone overweight nor does it compare it too anywhere else in the nation.
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
That's a way to twist a definition. An excuse is not taking personal responsibility for what they did.peckchris3267 wrote: »
There is actually a definition for reason and excuse. They are not the same. Im not deciding anything about what is valid or not, but there is a clear difference between reason and excuse.mrsnattybulking wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
I agree 100% and take ownership of my weight gain. I knew the consequences while I was doing it. I am not giving an excuse, just a reason and I am losing the weight I gained. The difference is all the fat people who make excuses and blame everyone and everything but themselves.Motorsheen wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »Service to your country doesn't automatically entitle you to eat more that you require, that was his choice. If you are bed ridden you don't NEED to eat 2500 calories/day. You require less, and therefor is your choice to do so... same argument for the able bodied eating too much.
Ut oh....
And I'm sure there are many fat people with "reasons" too. Depression, job loss, family member passing, there are a million different reasons why your head may not be in the game...
This. Everybody has reasons. Why should you (general you) get to decide whether or not those reasons are valid?
So the 'reason' for weight gain is a surplus of calories eaten over energy expenditure (and perhaps certain metabolic conditions). Under that definition, ANY other explanation is an excuse.
You don't like the taste of your own medicine?3 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »FireTurtle75 wrote: »I think it went off tracks with the first post & moved pretty quickly into fat bashing.
Especially when he is visibly fat himself.
Yes, I am fat. Three years ago I was very active and weighed 144 pounds. I was off my feet for over a year due to medical issues I got while serving my country and gained 70 pounds. I am now able to walk and have lost 17 pounds so far. I'm not sure what your point behind me being " visibly fat" is.
Nowhere do I see "I didn't appropriately adjust my caloric intake" or "I was exposed to x substance that caused my metabolic condition"
What I DO see is you trying to use service to your country and injury as an excuse for overeating. Is it more respectable to ignore your energy requirements because you served? I don't see how this is a reason by your own definition.4 -
peckchris3267 wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
It's from 2013 and yes, it is directly from the funeral industry, not the opinions of some journalist not in the industry.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
The fire department will help funeral homes move bodies out of homes, we've had to call for help a few times. They charge us nothing.peckchris3267 wrote: »
The funeral industry says otherwise.
http://www.us-funerals.com/funeral-articles/funerals-for-oversize-people.html#.WTbLL6cpDYU
"What does it mean if you are fat and need a funeral? How do funeral directors have to change practices to accommodate the growing number of obese corpses? Needless to say it means a greater cost to arrange a funeral for a ‘larger than average’ size person."
You're going to trust an article on a website that looks like it's from 1999 over a professional in the industry?
So someone who works in the industry is wrong? Yet, someone who writes a dated article on the internet is right?
Here's some of the things that are incorrect about how you referenced your sources.- You did not check the sources of your reference article. The article doesn't say where it got the cost of a funeral for someone overweight nor does it compare it too anywhere else in the nation.
- Also, you need to use more recent references as information changes over time. For example, a DVD player used to cost $1000, now it cost $20, but if I referenced an article from 1997, I would think I was correct if I told someone a DVD player cost $1000.
Therefor if someone who sold DVD players told me I was wrong and I did only dated research I would think I was correct when I wasn't.
There are many, many articles out there that contradict what you are saying and make complete sense.
"Embalming the Obese
Apr 25, 2014
I noticed that recently this subreddit has been discussing the sizing of airplane seats, and the complications of fitting a fat person into a confined small seat. It strangely reminded me of caskets, so I decided you all might want to hear about servicing the fat in the funeral industry!
As an embalmer, I see more and more bodies coming in that are morbidly obese. That means I have to make deeper incisions, use more fluid, sew up longer autopsy scars, and strain my back to lift heavier people. The lifting is the worst part, especially if I'm in the building alone and nobody is there to help me. Some funeral homes invest in a mechanical lift, but of course, they have a weight limit. So, lifting bodies has made me pretty muscular in the arms and abdomen! Well, muscular enough for a little lady who's 5'4" and would rather do math than lift weights. That being said, I've also sustained two spinal injuries from lifting bodies. I'm in my twenties and I've had spinal injuries. What in the world!
A body requires about a gallon of embalming solution for every fifty pounds of weight. Each gallon contains anywhere from 2-4 bottles of chemicals. Let's say a person is about 600 pounds. That means we need 12 gallons, containing anywhere from 24-48 bottles. This does not include the cavity fluid that we use the sterilize the cavities of the body. A normal-sized person requires one bottle. A larger person may require as many as 4 or 5, just to sterilize the body. We can't use less than we need, or the body may not be properly sterilized. As a proponent of "green burials" (environmentally friendly chemicals and biodegradable materials used in the funerals), it pains me to see this much formaldehyde being pumped into the earth.
Your average casket is built to fit your average person. Larger custom caskets can be ordered, but each inch added to the width can drive the price up exponentially. Caskets are already expensive, and wide-load caskets are almost absurdly costly. That doesn't include the cost of a concrete vault for the coffin to be buried in, if you want one.
These large coffins are absurd. the largest I've ever had to order was the size of a bed. I would've been able to fit both myself and another person of my size inside. It was like standing next to a canoe, and it cost more than a new car. I've heard of the families of larger people ordering that the funeral home cut off excess fat so the body will fit in a normal casket.
"All this burial stuff is too complicated," you say? "Isn't cremation the same for a morbidly obese person as it is for a skinnier person?" Well, sometimes, no. You've no doubt heard about the Austrian woman whose body was so fat it started a grease fire in a crematorium two years ago. I have a friend who is a crematorium operator, and he once had to cut up a super-morbidly obese man and cremate him in three separate parts, because he would not fit in the chamber. Crematoriums require a lot of energy to operate, as the fire has to be EXTREMELY hot in order to reduce the body to ash. Take the energy used by a normal-sized body, and multiply it by three. That's what had to be paid by the funeral home to accommodate one very large man.
Tl;DR - funeral workers and the families of the deceased must shell out extra money and put in extra time to accommodate the obese."
I also quoted someone that embalms, but from 2017.LittleHearseDriver wrote: »
Pecker,your numbers are BS. I know this because I'm a licensed funeral director and embalmer. A bottle of embalming fluid costs roughly $5 and a fancy body lift costs around $5,000. The funeral home I work at has a "homemade" lift which is a car wench and four straps attached to it. It gets the job done just fine. There is no excuse for a funeral home to charge a family extra because of their body weight. That person has to be taken care of just like anyone else. They deserve to be treated with the same respect as a 150 lb individual.2 - You did not check the sources of your reference article. The article doesn't say where it got the cost of a funeral for someone overweight nor does it compare it too anywhere else in the nation.
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peckchris3267 wrote: »
There are many, many articles out there that contradict what you are saying and make complete sense.
"Embalming the Obese
Apr 25, 2014
I noticed that recently this subreddit has been discussing the sizing of airplane seats, and the complications of fitting a fat person into a confined small seat. It strangely reminded me of caskets, so I decided you all might want to hear about servicing the fat in the funeral industry!
As an embalmer, I see more and more bodies coming in that are morbidly obese. That means I have to make deeper incisions, use more fluid, sew up longer autopsy scars, and strain my back to lift heavier people. The lifting is the worst part, especially if I'm in the building alone and nobody is there to help me. Some funeral homes invest in a mechanical lift, but of course, they have a weight limit. So, lifting bodies has made me pretty muscular in the arms and abdomen! Well, muscular enough for a little lady who's 5'4" and would rather do math than lift weights. That being said, I've also sustained two spinal injuries from lifting bodies. I'm in my twenties and I've had spinal injuries. What in the world!
A body requires about a gallon of embalming solution for every fifty pounds of weight. Each gallon contains anywhere from 2-4 bottles of chemicals. Let's say a person is about 600 pounds. That means we need 12 gallons, containing anywhere from 24-48 bottles. This does not include the cavity fluid that we use the sterilize the cavities of the body. A normal-sized person requires one bottle. A larger person may require as many as 4 or 5, just to sterilize the body. We can't use less than we need, or the body may not be properly sterilized. As a proponent of "green burials" (environmentally friendly chemicals and biodegradable materials used in the funerals), it pains me to see this much formaldehyde being pumped into the earth.
Your average casket is built to fit your average person. Larger custom caskets can be ordered, but each inch added to the width can drive the price up exponentially. Caskets are already expensive, and wide-load caskets are almost absurdly costly. That doesn't include the cost of a concrete vault for the coffin to be buried in, if you want one.
These large coffins are absurd. the largest I've ever had to order was the size of a bed. I would've been able to fit both myself and another person of my size inside. It was like standing next to a canoe, and it cost more than a new car. I've heard of the families of larger people ordering that the funeral home cut off excess fat so the body will fit in a normal casket.
"All this burial stuff is too complicated," you say? "Isn't cremation the same for a morbidly obese person as it is for a skinnier person?" Well, sometimes, no. You've no doubt heard about the Austrian woman whose body was so fat it started a grease fire in a crematorium two years ago. I have a friend who is a crematorium operator, and he once had to cut up a super-morbidly obese man and cremate him in three separate parts, because he would not fit in the chamber. Crematoriums require a lot of energy to operate, as the fire has to be EXTREMELY hot in order to reduce the body to ash. Take the energy used by a normal-sized body, and multiply it by three. That's what had to be paid by the funeral home to accommodate one very large man.
Tl;DR - funeral workers and the families of the deceased must shell out extra money and put in extra time to accommodate the obese."
A body can't hold 12 gallons of fluid, use some common sense! Could you drink 12 gallons of water at once?1 -
@peckchris3267 here is something educational for you to read.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10488847/ask-a-mortician/p1
Enjoy
3 -
LittleHearseDriver wrote: »@peckchris3267 here is something educational for you to read.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10488847/ask-a-mortician/p1
Enjoy
If you liked that you may also like this:
http://www.science.com/amazing-science-facts-you-never-learned-at-high-school
0 -
LittleHearseDriver wrote: »peckchris3267 wrote: »
There are many, many articles out there that contradict what you are saying and make complete sense.
"Embalming the Obese
Apr 25, 2014
I noticed that recently this subreddit has been discussing the sizing of airplane seats, and the complications of fitting a fat person into a confined small seat. It strangely reminded me of caskets, so I decided you all might want to hear about servicing the fat in the funeral industry!
As an embalmer, I see more and more bodies coming in that are morbidly obese. That means I have to make deeper incisions, use more fluid, sew up longer autopsy scars, and strain my back to lift heavier people. The lifting is the worst part, especially if I'm in the building alone and nobody is there to help me. Some funeral homes invest in a mechanical lift, but of course, they have a weight limit. So, lifting bodies has made me pretty muscular in the arms and abdomen! Well, muscular enough for a little lady who's 5'4" and would rather do math than lift weights. That being said, I've also sustained two spinal injuries from lifting bodies. I'm in my twenties and I've had spinal injuries. What in the world!
A body requires about a gallon of embalming solution for every fifty pounds of weight. Each gallon contains anywhere from 2-4 bottles of chemicals. Let's say a person is about 600 pounds. That means we need 12 gallons, containing anywhere from 24-48 bottles. This does not include the cavity fluid that we use the sterilize the cavities of the body. A normal-sized person requires one bottle. A larger person may require as many as 4 or 5, just to sterilize the body. We can't use less than we need, or the body may not be properly sterilized. As a proponent of "green burials" (environmentally friendly chemicals and biodegradable materials used in the funerals), it pains me to see this much formaldehyde being pumped into the earth.
Your average casket is built to fit your average person. Larger custom caskets can be ordered, but each inch added to the width can drive the price up exponentially. Caskets are already expensive, and wide-load caskets are almost absurdly costly. That doesn't include the cost of a concrete vault for the coffin to be buried in, if you want one.
These large coffins are absurd. the largest I've ever had to order was the size of a bed. I would've been able to fit both myself and another person of my size inside. It was like standing next to a canoe, and it cost more than a new car. I've heard of the families of larger people ordering that the funeral home cut off excess fat so the body will fit in a normal casket.
"All this burial stuff is too complicated," you say? "Isn't cremation the same for a morbidly obese person as it is for a skinnier person?" Well, sometimes, no. You've no doubt heard about the Austrian woman whose body was so fat it started a grease fire in a crematorium two years ago. I have a friend who is a crematorium operator, and he once had to cut up a super-morbidly obese man and cremate him in three separate parts, because he would not fit in the chamber. Crematoriums require a lot of energy to operate, as the fire has to be EXTREMELY hot in order to reduce the body to ash. Take the energy used by a normal-sized body, and multiply it by three. That's what had to be paid by the funeral home to accommodate one very large man.
Tl;DR - funeral workers and the families of the deceased must shell out extra money and put in extra time to accommodate the obese."
A body can't hold 12 gallons of fluid, use some common sense! Could you drink 12 gallons of water at once?
Loathe as I am to agree with anything about that post...I am finding 1 gallon per 50 lbs to be the figure quoted numerous times. http://www.embalmers.com/applied.html So a 600 lb person would need 12 gallons according to that. But I would not be surprised to have someone say that it tops out at some point.0 -
People probably need love and acceptance to become their best. Then, they will become socially engaged and be more active...want to treat themselves and other people better both mentally and physically...instead of being depressed, solitary, angry, and generally anti-social.
It's not a civil right to be accepted...but it is civil to treat your neighbors well.
Encouragement works better than punishment, in my opinion. I don't think you are owed a right by anybody to be encouraged, though. That's coming from their generosity and kindness...and possibly their general civility and common sense.2 -
What's going on Fellers1
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This topic is current closed for review with respect to the following guideline:4. Show Respect to All Groups and Individuals
No derogatory references to sex, gender, age, weight, body-type, disability, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation, or endorsement of violence against any person or group, even if couched in humor, will be permitted. This includes expressing stereotypes about any group or community.
^ that would be a reason14
This discussion has been closed.
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