July 2017 Running Challenge

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  • HonuNui
    HonuNui Posts: 1,464 Member
    July Goal: 85 mile (yeah, a REAL goal!)

    7/1 3.75
    7/2 3.52
    7/3 rest
    7/4 3.26
    7/5 5.18
    7/6 snorkel 3.5 hours
    7/7 3.40
    7/8 6.00

    Total 25.11

    YEA! @Elise4270

    Ticker is my goal for 2017 and progress to date:
    exercise.png
    upcoming races:
    Fun in the Sun Virtual 10k 6/28/17
    Race to Cure Sarcoma Month of July
    Volcano Rainforest Runs 10k 8/19
    BlockThe Sun Run 5k Oct 14 (https://walk.aimatmelanoma.org/Hilo2017) (physical and virtual options available)
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    edited July 2017
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    If I believe these numbers, "moderate" is where I'm most comfortable on long solo runs. "Threshold" is where I've mostly been running shorter races, with a kick into "VO2 Max" near the end. Doctrine is that I should be able to run a race shorter than an hour above lactic threshold pace; maybe I haven't been working as hard as I can? Or maybe my lactic threshold HR estimate is too high.

    I'm in that odd spot where the theory is making sense, but I'm not so sure I have the right numbers to work with.

    Well, Moderate is supposed to be your long run workout pace. So that is good.

    How did you come up with your lactic threshold HR estimate?

    On another thread, people posted about a do it yourself estimate for lactic threshold HR. You were supposed to run a 30 minute time trial as hard as you can, in good conditions, with even splits. Use your average HR for the last 20 minutes. There was a source for this, but I don't remember what it was.

    There's no way I'm going through that exercise just to satisfy my curiosity about my LT HR. But I had this 8K race in Virginia Beach, in good running conditions, with nearly even splits, on a course as flat as a track. It took me 31 minutes. Garmin doesn't give me average HR in arbitrary intervals, but it does for laps; and I was autolapping miles. So I kicked out the first 2 miles (12 minutes and change) and looked at the average HR for the remaining 3 miles. That came out at 157, fairly steady across the miles. It also matched the top of Zone 3 done by the reserve method, which was a sanity check subject to the accuracy of my resting HR and max HR estimates.

    Edit to add: Where my doubts come in is from the other sanity check: Lactic threshold is supposed to be something I can sustain for about an hour. If I run a 30 minute time trial as hard as I can, by definition that should be a pace I can't sustain for a full hour. And I certainly didn't have another 29 minutes of that pace left in me after I crossed the finish line at Virginia Beach. So maybe my LT HR should be a few beats lower than 157.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    On another thread, people posted about a do it yourself estimate for lactic threshold HR. You were supposed to run a 30 minute time trial as hard as you can, in good conditions, with even splits. Use your average HR for the last 20 minutes. There was a source for this, but I don't remember what it was.

    There's no way I'm going through that exercise just to satisfy my curiosity about my LT HR. But I had this 8K race in Virginia Beach, in good running conditions, with nearly even splits, on a course as flat as a track. It took me 31 minutes. Garmin doesn't give me average HR in arbitrary intervals, but it does for laps; and I was autolapping miles. So I kicked out the first 2 miles (12 minutes and change) and looked at the average HR for the remaining 3 miles. That came out at 157, fairly steady across the miles. It also matched the top of Zone 3 done by the reserve method, which was a sanity check subject to the accuracy of my resting HR and max HR estimates.

    Edit to add: Where my doubts come in is from the other sanity check: Lactic threshold is supposed to be something I can sustain for about an hour. If I run a 30 minute time trial as hard as I can, by definition that should be a pace I can't sustain for a full hour. And I certainly didn't have another 29 minutes of that pace left in me after I crossed the finish line at Virginia Beach. So maybe my LT HR should be a few beats lower than 157.

    I doubt it is precise enough for "a few beats" to make a real difference. I used a 10k race that I finished in 50 mins which was a PR. Figure that had to be pretty close.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited July 2017
    @PastorVincent The test @MobyCarp is talking about is the Friel Test. I used it for my HR zones, and found, for me at least, it was pretty darn accurate, as I also have 1hr data that correlates with it pretty well.

    Here's Joe Friel's blog article about it, the beginning of the article covers the test it'self, the rest is on his zoone setting: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/
    Here's my test last November: https://www.strava.com/activities/777909124/overview
    My splits duriing the 30 minute window could have been tighter, but I think they were OK. The 175 Average I got from the last 20 minutes lines up well with what I have seen across date. However, no test/data is perfect, so YMMV
  • mustb60
    mustb60 Posts: 1,090 Member
    July Running Challenge
    Goal: 100 km
    Ran: 14/100

    9/7/17 Run 7 km
    8/7/17 walk 2km
    7/7/17 Walk 4 km
    6/7/17 (Sick)Rest day
    5/7/17 Run 7 km + Yoga
    4/7/17 SL+ Walk 15 km
    3/7/17 Walk 7 km
    1/7/17 walk 8 km

    SL : Strong lift
  • RunRachelleRun
    RunRachelleRun Posts: 1,854 Member
    Love the shirt, @katharmonic !

    July 9: 5.85 km

    Today was a hard one. I felt sluggish and wanted to walk right from the start. Every running step was a battle. I am having on staycation and eating out too much. I imagine that was the explanation for how I felt. I'll have to smarten up this week.

    MTD: 28.81 km / 75 km
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    @_nikkiwolf_ I got the Vasque Pendulum II GTX.

    For trail shoes, it isn't easy because I have a lot of demands... I wanted something with a rock plate and that were waterproof or Gore-Tex for technical trails. Also, my injury earlier this year with road shoes taught a lesson about getting the right shoes; so I was looking for something with a 5mm-6mm drop.

    I had been looking at Hoka One One Challenger's, except they are not waterproof / Gore-Tex. This is a must for my trail shoes. I ended up getting the Vasque's on closeout price from REI. I'm pretty sure the Pendulum III GTX are available, so that explains the closeout pricing. The Pendulum III are totally different, mostly because of how the toe curves up and they have 17.2 mm drop (WTF?!).

    Anyway, here is a review of the Pendulum II's: https://activegearreview.com/running-gear-reviews/trail-running-shoes/vasque-pendulum-ii-gtx-review/
  • BettyM1017
    BettyM1017 Posts: 616 Member
    July 9 – 5.0 miles Easy
    Total: 36.75/100 miles

    Upcoming Races:
    July 21 - St. Pete Beach Series, Race #2, 5K
  • RespectTheKitty
    RespectTheKitty Posts: 1,667 Member
    Orphia wrote: »
    RespectTheKitty wrote: »
    Well, it may be time to go back to the doctor. My hip was feeling okay all day, so I decided to try going for a run. As soon as I started running, my hip started hurting again. Like, pretty bad. I tried to work through it, but after 5k decided it would be better to not run anymore.

    I'm really frustrated. The weather was beautiful today and it would have been a great day for a long run. But my stupid hip won't let me.

    Guess I'll be doing other things for a while. Hello biking and walking. Sigh.

    @RespectTheKitty Aw, bugger, so sorry to hear that. I've rolled my ankle on a trail run this morning in sympathy. Currently sitting with it strapped and up on my desk.

    Oh no! Hope it gets better soon.

    As for me, I picked up a real foam roller from Dick's this morning and gave my bum hip a really good roll. It feels slightly better now. I'm dragging my boyfriend with me on a hike after my laundry gets done. Calling my doctor first thing tomorrow for a PT referral.
  • skippygirlsmom
    skippygirlsmom Posts: 4,433 Member
    edited July 2017
    BettyM1017 wrote: »
    @amymoreorless and @BruinsGal_91 I love you ladies!! You seriously made me feel more like an athlete and less like a Sweaty Betty!

    @bettyM1017 I'm with the sweat like a pig group. Skip even has extra air fresheners in her car for driving home after a run with me. Seriously I smell worse than an NFL locker room. Not pretty at all.
    @elise4270 great job on the AG win - yeah as long as they are more than 1 of you it's a win!!!
    @respectthekitty I'm so sorry about the hip :cry:
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    edited July 2017
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @PastorVincent The test @MobyCarp is talking about is the Friel Test. I used it for my HR zones, and found, for me at least, it was pretty darn accurate, as I also have 1hr data that correlates with it pretty well.

    Here's Joe Friel's blog article about it, the beginning of the article covers the test it'self, the rest is on his zoone setting: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/
    Here's my test last November: https://www.strava.com/activities/777909124/overview
    My splits duriing the 30 minute window could have been tighter, but I think they were OK. The 175 Average I got from the last 20 minutes lines up well with what I have seen across date. However, no test/data is perfect, so YMMV

    @MNLittleFinn - After reading Jo Friel's blog and the link back, I'm even more uncertain what my numbers should be. He says it's important to do the 30 minute test alone, and if you use a race it should be a race of at least an hour. Translation, I think a race of about an hour; otherwise, I should be running easier than lactic threshold for most of the race.

    So . . . the answer from Shamrock 8K is 157. Nice weather, flat course, perfect conditions . . . but it's a race.

    Look back for Finish Strong 15K in 2015. See a data glitch high from the old HR monitor for the first three miles. No problem, that's the 20 minutes we kick out. Mile 4 looks like I might still be ramping up, avergage 142 and max 147. Miles 5 through 9 have average HRs from 146 to 149, max HRs from 150 to 155. Ignore the end with the kick, and it looks like 148 or 149 is the answer. But that's also a couple years old.

    Look at Canandaigua Half Marathon, because it's recent. Ignore mile 13 and the tag end for being a finish kick on the uphill. Realize that the rest of the race is a lot of up and down, for me. Miles 5 through 12 have average HRs ranging from 138 to 152, max HRs ranging from 147 to 156. Just eyeballing where most of the averages are, that looks like the 145 to 147 range. But it's not an hour race, it's an hour and a half race.

    So I'm left with the conclusion that unless I want to actually do the test as a test, my LT HR estimate is somewhere between 145 and 157. That's a pretty noticeable difference in training zones from bottom to top of that estimate range.

    I might narrow that down with data from Firecracker Four mile, where my average HR was 153 and 154 for miles 4 and 3. Since it was a short race, that should mean that 154 is too high; but it wasn't an "A" race, and I didn't finish it wiped out. So I really didn't run that one in the spirit of testing my heart rate.

    *shrug* The gripping hand is, I don't think heart rate is my limiting factor. I think injury is my limiting factor, and running to prevent injury should have priority over running to optimize speed. This results in my rarely running as hard as I *can*, because I want to live to run another day.
  • NikolaosKey
    NikolaosKey Posts: 410 Member
    Hellow fellow runners!

    7/3: 8.1k -easy run-
    7/4: 12.6k -intervals-
    7/6: 10.8k -2.5k w/u+8.3k progressive running-
    7/8: 8.5k -recovery after 2.2k swimming-
    7/9: 15.1k -Long run-

    55.1k/140k

    Stay hydrated!
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @PastorVincent The test @MobyCarp is talking about is the Friel Test. I used it for my HR zones, and found, for me at least, it was pretty darn accurate, as I also have 1hr data that correlates with it pretty well.

    Here's Joe Friel's blog article about it, the beginning of the article covers the test it'self, the rest is on his zoone setting: https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/joe-friel-s-quick-guide-to-setting-zones/
    Here's my test last November: https://www.strava.com/activities/777909124/overview
    My splits duriing the 30 minute window could have been tighter, but I think they were OK. The 175 Average I got from the last 20 minutes lines up well with what I have seen across date. However, no test/data is perfect, so YMMV

    @MNLittleFinn - After reading Jo Friel's blog and the link back, I'm even more uncertain what my numbers should be. He says it's important to do the 30 minute test alone, and if you use a race it should be a race of at least an hour. Translation, I think a race of about an hour; otherwise, I should be running easier than lactic threshold for most of the race.

    So . . . the answer from Shamrock 8K is 157. Nice weather, flat course, perfect conditions . . . but it's a race.

    Look back for Finish Strong 15K in 2015. See a data glitch high from the old HR monitor for the first three miles. No problem, that's the 20 minutes we kick out. Mile 4 looks like I might still be ramping up, avergage 142 and max 147. Miles 5 through 9 have average HRs from 146 to 149, max HRs from 150 to 155. Ignore the end with the kick, and it looks like 148 or 149 is the answer. But that's also a couple years old.

    Look at Canandaigua Half Marathon, because it's recent. Ignore mile 13 and the tag end for being a finish kick on the uphill. Realize that the rest of the race is a lot of up and down, for me. Miles 5 through 12 have average HRs ranging from 138 to 152, max HRs ranging from 147 to 156. Just eyeballing where most of the averages are, that looks like the 145 to 147 range. But it's not an hour race, it's an hour and a half race.

    So I'm left with the conclusion that unless I want to actually do the test as a test, my LT HR estimate is somewhere between 145 and 157. That's a pretty noticeable difference in training zones from bottom to top of that estimate range.

    I might narrow that down with data from Firecracker Four mile, where my average HR was 153 and 154 for miles 4 and 3. Since it was a short race, that should mean that 154 is too high; but it wasn't an "A" race, and I didn't finish it wiped out. So I really didn't run that one in the spirit of testing my heart rate.

    *shrug* The gripping hand is, I don't think heart rate is my limiting factor. I think injury is my limiting factor, and running to prevent injury should have priority over running to optimize speed. This results in my rarely running as hard as I *can*, because I want to live to run another day.

    There is a calculator online where if you feed it your best times at like 10k, 5k, and stuff it gives you and idea. It was some kind of spreedsheet like form. Trying to find it now again...but do not remember enough to re-google it.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited July 2017
    @MobyCarp great info you have there.... in reality, it's all probably a SWAG on LTHR anyway, it seems to work for me, so you using what works for you is what matters, right? Thanks again for posting that data, it's always cool for me to see what other people have for data
  • cburke8909
    cburke8909 Posts: 990 Member
    Don't you also have to factor in intangibles like did you get a good night sleep? Are you stressed? Hills? Perceived effort? It's never going to be a perfect fit and I think it got to change even from one day to the next.
  • RunRachelleRun
    RunRachelleRun Posts: 1,854 Member
    edited July 2017
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    There is a calculator online where if you feed it your best times at like 10k, 5k, and stuff it gives you and idea. It was some kind of spreedsheet like form. Trying to find it now again...but do not remember enough to re-google it.

    This might be the one you mean.
    mattfitzgerald.org/8020-zone-calculator/

    He also has info on how to set your Garmin 5 zones to best match his as per an earlier discussion.
    mattfitzgerald.org/how-to-create-8020-zones-on-your-garmin-device/
  • vandinem
    vandinem Posts: 550 Member 
    Date      Miles      MTD
-------   -----    -------
July  1     4.0        4.0 
July  3     3.7        7.7 
July  7     3.7       11.4
July  8     5.1       16.5
July  9     3.7       20.2
  • wishiwasarunner
    wishiwasarunner Posts: 202 Member
    @Elise4270 - so glad you were able to run after that injury! Being able to place first in AG is yummy icing on that cake
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    RunRachelleRun wrote: »
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    There is a calculator online where if you feed it your best times at like 10k, 5k, and stuff it gives you and idea. It was some kind of spreedsheet like form. Trying to find it now again...but do not remember enough to re-google it.

    This might be the one you mean.
    mattfitzgerald.org/8020-zone-calculator/

    He also has info on how to set your Garmin 5 zones to best match his as per an earlier discussion.
    mattfitzgerald.org/how-to-create-8020-zones-on-your-garmin-device/

    Yeah! That is it. Thanks:)
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    wishiwasarunner wrote: »
    @BettyM1017 , @amymoreorless , @bruins_girl , and @skippygirlsmom and all the other sweaty runners - I am glad to know that I am not alone. As I run along the trail I have found myself watching to see if there is anyone else as sweaty as me rather than checking out their speed, lol. Almost never see anyone else even close. I have to sit outside for a while so the dripping stops. I have gotten out of the chair on my deck and had a pool of sweat on the ground below so deep that a bug had drowned in it.

    Anyway, thanks for making me feel slightly more normal.

    Yeah, I have taken to stopping my run 1/2 mile from home and slowly walking back to allow my core temp to fall.
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