July 2017 Running Challenge
Replies
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1/7-4.7 Miles
2/7-6.8
3/7-REST
4/7-2.8
5/7-3
6/7-REST
7/7-3.1
8/7-REST
9/7-4.8
10/7-3.1
11/7-4
12/7-3.5
13/7-4.9
14/7-REST
15/7-6.8
16/7-3.1
Total -53.6/1003 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »Just posted a MASSIVE race report and it has to be "approved" ugh.... do those posts ever actually show up?
I hope it does! I'm excited to hear about it.0 -
@MNLittleFinn I hope so... I look forward to reading that.
@carolineb81 That is a very good time for a first 5K!1 -
@Orphia Congrats on your long run.
@ elise4270 Great job on the PR. I am also not brave enough to Google the toenail necklace or the rat king.
@carolineb81 Congrats on the sub 30 5K.
@MNLittleFinn I hope it gets approved. I always look forward to the race reports.
I'm fixing to head out for my run. I probably should have gotten up earlier, but sleep is important too. And I really needed some.5 -
7/1 - Rest Day
7/2 -Rest Day
7/3 - Rest Day
7/4 - 2.98 (Based on Garmin distance) for local 5K… time was 26:22; not a PR at all, but I haven't run at all since 6/24 and won't be fat adapted for awhile yet.
7/5 - 5.03 miles - not as fast as I planned
7/6 - 3.01 miles treadmill. Plan was for easy miles, and these were scary slow.
7/7 - Rest day
7/8 - 7.37 miles. New trail running shoes! Went out on a trail I haven't visited for awhile, was hot and very slow. Very tall grass in areas made this very difficult as well.
7/9 - Rest
7/10 - Rest
7/11 - 3.0 easy miles treadmill, very slow, before weight lifting. It's hot outside and it is just easy to run on the treadmill at the gym before lifting. I knew I was going to lose some speed when changing nutrition again, but this is really starting to scare me.
7/12 - 5.02 miles, still slower than I wanted.
7/13 - 3.0 miles treadmill before lifting weights. Still slow, but plan was for easy miles.
7/14 - Rest
7/15 - Rest
7/16 - 9.08 miles, struggled with managing BG.
Upcoming Races:
7/4/17 - Miner 5K
7/29/17 - Dr. Dash 10K
10/21/17 - Oregon Trail Run HM3 -
Wow, all this talk of toenails getting black and falling off has me rethinking this running thing.
No run for me today. 25.75 miles on the bike and then laying around in the pool drinking all my extra calories.
I do have to say - all this running made that bike ride a lot easier.
I've never lost a toe nail. Never had one turn black or any other not normal color. I had one that some how got injured at the cuticle. It just lifted loose but grew out normally. I don't know it that was running or clumsiness. It was visibility injured, I even had my doc look at it. So i think, as long as you're good at fitting shoes, you shouldn't have any problems. If it happens, just embrace the running milestone.
This may not be a good time to bring up Jan Ryerse' lost toenail necklace... Google if you dare. And did you know a rat king is a real thing? Google if you dare.
I'm not sure which is worse. Ok, definitely the rats. 
Since you dared me and I am currently in the process of loosing two toenails ---I had to Google it. Just ewwww.1 -
7/1 = gym day: 1 hour strength training
7/2 = 13 miles with running group (run/walk)
7/3 = 7.5 miles & 30 minutes strength training
7/4 = Vinyasa yoga class & 4 miles hiking with hubby and pups
7/5 = 7.5 miles (6 - 5 minutes speed intervals)
7/6 = 5.5 miles
7/7 = 3 miles (track workout: 2 laps warm up, x8 300m sprints, x8 100m recovery walk, 2 laps cool down) & gym Kettlebell workout
7/8 = 5.5 miles
7/9 = 13 miles
7/10 = 7 miles & 45 minutes strength training
7/11 = Vinyasa yoga class
7/12 = 8 miles (6 - 6 minutes speed intervals)
7/13 = 4.5 miles
7/14 = 3.5 miles (track workout 400m sprints with 100m recovery) & 45 minutes strength training
7/15 = 5.5 miles
7/16 = 13.5 miles
It rained yesterday and broke the oppressive heat! While it was 100% humidity at 5am, the temp was only 72. Very nice start to my run.
10 miles of walk/run with the Sunday running group and then another 3.5 miles of running on my own.
(July miles to date) 99/170 (July goal miles)
Upcoming 2017 Races:
8/12 = Verns No Frills 100 Anniversary 5K Race
10/28 = Hill Country Halloween Half Marathon
11/23 = Georgetown Turkey Trot
12/10 = BCS Half Marathon3 -
carolineb81 wrote: »First ever race today. Was a 5k and my time was 29:47, I really wanted to get a sub 30 time so Im very happy with that. Lots to take away and learn for future races I think but all in all very happy.
Great job! I'm hoping my first race in Sept will also be sub 30 minutes.3 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »Just posted a MASSIVE race report and it has to be "approved" ugh.... do those posts ever actually show up?
@MNLittleFinn - They do show up, after a while. It will appear in the thread in sequence for when you originally submitted it, on Page 31 right above the post I'm replying to. There will be no notification that it's a new post, so on fast moving threads like this it will be easy to miss. Hopefully one or another of us who is looking for it will post an "it's here" blurb when it shows up, so others who want to read it can go back and find it.
I *hate* the stupid spam-censor that triggers on one specific number. It's so hard to remember, notice that I used that number, and edit that number to be human-readable but not spam-censor bait.1 -
July 2: C25K W7D3 - 2.0 miles running (25 min), 4.2 miles total
July 4: C25K W8D1 - 2.4 miles running (30 min), 4.2 miles total
July 6: C25K W8D2 - 2.3 miles running (28 minutes), 4.2 miles total
July 8: C25K W8D3 - 2.4 miles running (30 min), 4.2 miles total
July 10: 2.4 miles running (31 min), 4.2 miles total
July 12: 2.5 miles running (32 min), 4.2 miles total
July 14: 2.7 miles running (34 min), 4.2 miles total
July 16: 3.1 miles running (49 min), 4.2 miles total
Totals: 23.8/25 and 33.6/25
Was still feeling not 100% after Friday's poor choices, but when I woke up this morning, I wanted to run. Ate a nut bar (usually I'm fasted, but I didn't eat dinner last night due to lack of appetite after a late, protein-heavy lunch), drank half again as much water as usual, and set off with the plan to see how slowly I could go and still be running. It had occurred to me that my normal pace, while objectively slow, might still be too fast for me right now.
I felt so good at my previous stopping point, despite more time on my feet, that I finished out the 5k distance. And when I got home, instead of my usual thought that I was too tired to get to the yardwork, I spent two hours making my house look less like an episode of Life After People. At that point, the scale said I was still as hydrated as when I woke up, so a win all around.
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7/2 4.5
7/4 5.0 total 9.5
7/8 6.0 total 15.5
7/11 5.0 total 20.5
7/12 4.5 total 25.0
7/16 6.0 total 31
Still trudging along, not quite where I need to be at half way through the month...4 -
I have come to the conclusion to take it on faith that this tracker will eventually update.3
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Well as I predicted, I didn't get a personal best. It was way too hot for that. But I somehow managed to win my age-group. My time was 27:28 which let's face it, many people would consider pretty slow. There were only eight of us in that category (it was a small local race), so I don't think I'll be in the next Olympics, but you know what, I don't care. I've got a medal and a very stupid grin on my face.14
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Congatulations! Nice job. It is very cool to win your age group, and who cares if it was small, you were still the best of all of them on this day!BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Well as I predicted, I didn't get a personal best. It was way too hot for that. But I somehow managed to win my age-group. My time was 27:28 which let's face it, many people would consider pretty slow. There were only eight of us in that category (it was a small local race), so I don't think I'll be in the next Olympics, but you know what, I don't care. I've got a medal and a very stupid grin on my face.0 -
It showed up. Here it is, quoted so people don't have to hunt it down.MNLittleFinn wrote: »Main goal is to survive the Eugene Curnow Trail marathon and get more time on feet.
Nominal mileage goal: Let's say 100? Maybe I'll be a PastorVincent and set my goal at the end of the month
7/1- 11
7/2- REST/Family day
7/3- REST/Family Day
7/4- 6ey stinger
7/5- 5
7/6- 6
7/6- 5.1<--daily double
7/7- REST
7/8-17.7
7/9-9
7/10- REST
7/11- 3.1
7/12- 3.1
7/13- REST
7/14- REST
7/15- 25.9
7/16- REST
Total: 92.2
Weekend Notes: Yesterday I "ran" the Eugene Curnow trail marathon "the marathon that runs like an ultra." That was BRUTAL race. it started out pretty warm, already in the mid 60sF (15-19C), so I knew that it was going to get kind of nasty throughout the day. I felt pretty well prepared, with both 21oz waterbottles filled with Tailwind, and 6 pre-prepped packets for refilling.
Miles 1-8: The first miles went pretty well, which is good, since this is where the biggest climbs were. They were the miles with the most net elevation gain. to give an idea, there's a Strava segment about 1 mile in that's a 181 foot gain over 0.3 miles, and that one felt easier than about 90% of yesterday's climbs.
Miles 9-16.3: Here's where things started to get bad for me. In this stretch, I never had a mile that was faster than 14:40. I was starting to heat up at this point, and the temps were rising, temps were already in the low 60s according to my Garmin. Mile 9 was up, then downhill, and 10 was the opposite. 9 had 104 feet net elevation gain, and 10 had 27ft net downhill. 11 and 12 were a mix as well, with 11 a net gain of 119, and 12 a net loss of 12.... However, mile 12 contained the first Powerline Climbs. There were 4 of them, each with an average grade of about 25% and all between 45 and 100 feet of vertical... Oh, did I mention the MUD? Imagine mud the consistency of THICK WET CLAY. and that was what was covering the entire section Finally got out of the sun where it had reached 81F (felt MUCH warmer!) and entered Purgatory A quick, series of shorter, but still sharp, uphills, just to kick your butt more. I was VERY glad to see the Grand Portage Aid Station. I stood around there for a little, drinking Coke and trying to compose myself. Then it was another short but up and down section to the Peters Aid Station., where I stood around some more, because I was whooped!
16.3-20.4: After I left the Peters aid station, things started going downhill for me (thought the terrain stayed nasty). My calves, quads, and hamstrings started cramping up, a LOT! I was really just creeping along at this time, and the thoughts of a DNF were very real, that's how bad my legs were. Then about 18.2 miles in, the trail racing community proved why it is awesome. going up a very short, but sharp incline, my left calf totally seized, as in my lower leg was stuck in the position for walking tip toe...and my right did similar, but not quite as bad...yup, I was on the ground... Then Chad, who was kind of hanging with me, saved the day, After I got my leg straightened out (did I mention my left Hamstring cramped too???), Chad started putting pressure on my foot, slowly forcing it back and stretching my calf. He then walked with me the next 2 miles to the Forbay Aid Station, where I got a nice, HUGE, piece of watermellon and promptly rolled it in the huge bowl of salt, to try to get my electrolytes back in balance.
20.4-Finish: I was actually feeling pretty good after Forbay, just totally drained (Note to self: Work on fueling!) I walked along in the sun, enjoying the breeze that finally showed up (even though my watch said the temp was 93F, and I can believe it). The last few miles were my slowest. Partially because I was taking it easy because I had no energy, and I wanted to save my legs, and partially because I was behind a couple who were just taking the last miles as a casual walk. With about 2 miles to go, I caught up with Chad, who had left me a little after Forbay, and we walked together until just before the end, where he ran in the last half mile, and I walked until I was a quarter mile out and then ran in the last little stretch, got my medal and shirt, and was finally done with my first trail race, and my longest ever run on trails.
Have a Runderful day all!
2017 Races Scheduled
6/16- William A Irvin 5k
6/17- Grandma's Marathon 4:24:06
7/15- Eugene Curnow Trail Marathon 7:22:23
8/19- Rampage at the Ridge 5k OCR
9/23- Ely Marathon (full)
10/21 Wild Duluth 100k
11/23- TBD 5k Turkey
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@MNLittleFinn Your race report showed up. Definitely fueling and electrolytes are important. I'm glad you got through and it sounds like you enjoyed it.0
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My whole week was a bit of a disaster. Way to many long days at work = not enough runs.
So today was my so called Long Run for the week. 12.5 km of struggle. When you look at your watch and no matter how hard you try to get in-sync the pace just won't build up to my normal - avg LSD pace ( 6:10/km ). I could get myself up to 7:00/km but nothing better. So after 4 km I quit worrying about it and just kept plodding along to get the distance in. Since I was struggling I decided it was a good day for a Run/Walk cycle. 2k run 100m walk. Strangely my legs felt heavy even though I didn't have a huge km week.
07/01 0 km – 160 km - 0 km – YTD 686.27
07/01 15.0 km – 145 km - 15km
07/04 13.5 km - 131.5km - 28.5km
07/06 13.6 km - 117.9km - 42.1km
07/09 6.7 km - 111.2km - 48.8km
07/10 5.5 km - 105.7km - 54.3km
07/14 10.0 km - 95.7km - 64.3km
07/16 12.5 km - 83.2km - 76.8km - YTD 763.07km 12.5 km West Side Peavey Mart loop
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July goal: 55 miles
7/2: 4.3 miles
7/3: 3.7 miles
7/4: 3.8 miles
7/5: 2.3 miles
7/9: 4.5 miles
7/11: 2.5 miles
7/12: 2.8 miles
7/13: 3.1 miles
7/16: 4.2 miles
31.2/55 miles
4.2 hot miles this morning. I wanted to go further, but I just couldn't take the heat. I feel great now though and I am really glad I got it done. I am also a little over half way to my goal so that is good. Tomorrow looks like it will be horrible again so I think I am going to to run in the evening. I enjoyed running around 8:30 pm the other day. I just need to make sure we eat dinner early enough that I don't have too full of a stomach.
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carolineb81 wrote: »First ever race today. Was a 5k and my time was 29:47, I really wanted to get a sub 30 time so Im very happy with that. Lots to take away and learn for future races I think but all in all very happy.
CONGRATS @carolineb81 !! That is awesome, well done!MNLittleFinn wrote: »Weekend Notes: Yesterday I "ran" the Eugene Curnow trail marathon "the marathon that runs like an ultra." That was BRUTAL race.
YOU DID IT AND YOU ARE NOT DEAD!! W00T!! Well done @MNLittleFinn !!
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BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Well as I predicted, I didn't get a personal best. It was way too hot for that. But I somehow managed to win my age-group. My time was 27:28 which let's face it, many people would consider pretty slow. There were only eight of us in that category (it was a small local race), so I don't think I'll be in the next Olympics, but you know what, I don't care. I've got a medal and a very stupid grin on my face.
Well done @BruinsGal_91 !
Stupid grin on face beats a PR every time 
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BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Well as I predicted, I didn't get a personal best. It was way too hot for that. But I somehow managed to win my age-group. My time was 27:28 which let's face it, many people would consider pretty slow. There were only eight of us in that category (it was a small local race), so I don't think I'll be in the next Olympics, but you know what, I don't care. I've got a medal and a very stupid grin on my face.
That's awesome! Congrats.
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BruinsGal_91 wrote: »Well as I predicted, I didn't get a personal best. It was way too hot for that. But I somehow managed to win my age-group. My time was 27:28 which let's face it, many people would consider pretty slow. There were only eight of us in that category (it was a small local race), so I don't think I'll be in the next Olympics, but you know what, I don't care. I've got a medal and a very stupid grin on my face.
@BruinsGal_91 - I'm sure your grin is no more stupid than mine was when I won my age group with my Personal Worst 5K finish time. That was another story of bad weather; the best runners in the field were 3 minutes slower than their typical 5K times in snow that couldn't be cleared as fast as it was falling.
So the heat slowed you down? Maybe it slowed you down less than the others in your age group. Maybe the people who could have run faster didn't show because of the heat. Doesn't matter. You showed up, you ran the race, you did better than anyone else in your age group who showed up.
Well done. You earned that stupid grin.7 -
@carolineb81 Great job! You beat my first 5K time by 6 minutes.
@MNLittleFinn Awesome! Just reading the words "the marathon that runs like an ultra" is making me sore and tired.1 -
July Running Totals (miles)
7/1 – 14.00 paced run
7/2 – 14.03 easy
7/3 – 6.21 easy + 4 strides
7/4 – 8.07 warm up + 4 mile race
7/5 – 7.40 group run
7/6 – 12.06 warm up + MP intervals
7/7 – rest day
7/8 – 15.01 paced 10 + ad hoc 5
7/9 – 11.83 easy 90 minutes
7/10 – 6.95 easy + 4 strides
7/11 – 11.37 warm up, speed work, cool down
7/12 – 6.04 group run
7/13 – 11.62 warm up, speed work, cool down
7/14 – rest day
7/15 – 20.25 warm up, pace half marathon, easy 5 miles post-race
7/16 – 13.12 easy 100 minutes
July total to date – 157.96
Nominal Challenge Goal – 260 miles
Real Goals: Stay healthy. Train toward Rochester Marathon. Pace Shoreline Half as close as possible to a 1:40 finish with even splits. Run Karknocker 5K in under 20 minutes.
Today's notes – Today's assignment was 100 minutes at an easy pace. There's no mystery about why this is there; it's to train me to run on tired legs after yesterday's assignment of 20 to 22 miles.
What with one thing and another, I hit the road about 2 PM. Temperature was 85º F on my porch thermometer (29º C), though Garmin says it was 79º F (26º C) with 51% relative humidity. Looked in the mirror, and saw tan lines for a singlet instead of a tee. Looked outside, and saw overcast skies. Decided I didn't need sunscreen.
Of course, the sun came out after I ran 2 miles and it stayed sunny. I ended up with sunburn on the back of my underarms. Ouch. It isn't the first time, and maybe next time I'll decide it's worth the trouble to apply sunscreen when I'm wearing a singlet.
I reasoned in advance that 100 minutes at an 8 minute mile would be 12.5 miles. But I've been feeling pretty good a little faster than that. I mapped out a 12.5 mile route with some roads I hadn't run before, and the option to add some distance near the end if I came in faster than 8. Good thing. I took the option to add a half mile, and *still* ended up running past my driveway for over a minute to make the 100 minutes. Ended up running 13.12 miles in 1:40:02 per Garmin, right on yesterday's half marathon target; but of course it would be shorter than a certified half. Certified halfs typically come in about 13.2 on my Garmin, from less than ideal tangents and GPS wobble.
Didn't find as much in the way of hills as I expected from the segments I added, but it did include a significant hill at mile 4 and the second worst hill at mile 10. Strava says 523 feet of elevation gain. Didn't really notice tired legs till about 11.6 miles in, kept running, and the tired legs didn't do much to demand attention. Average HR was 132, max 148, 71% in 80-20 Zone 2, 19% in Zone 1, 7% in Zone X. The Zone X was mostly getting up the hills.
Of course I was drenched in sweat by the time I got home, but that's become routine this summer. My right Achilles hasn't spoken up about yesterday or today; perhaps it's only bothered by harder speed work, or perhaps it's actually getting better.
In other news, I added two races to my calendar. I was going to run the Bergen 5K anyway, and yesterday was the last day before the entry fee went up. After thinking about it a while, I decided I would do Pound the Ground 10K three days before Bergen. This is not ideal, since both are moderately important races; but I suspect I might be able to win my age group at Pound the Ground with ordinary race effort. I might not be able to win my age group at Bergen at all, depending on who shows up; but I will probably need to put in the effort for an A race for my team to win the men's 60+ competition. So my tentative thinking is to treat Pound the Ground as a tempo workout, and treat Bergen as the important race.
2017 races:
January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:49:42
April 30, 2017 USATF Masters 10K Championship (James Joyce Ramble, Dedham, MA) finished in 39:54, PR for 10K
May 21, 2017 Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) finished in 40:04
May 27, 2017 Canandaigua Classic Half Marathon (Canandaigua, NY) finished in 1:33:06
June 9, 2017 Charlie McMullen Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 5:44.90, PR for mile
June 18, 2017 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) finished in 19:32
July 4, 2017 Firecracker Four Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 25:42
July 15, 2017 Shoreline Half Marathon [1:40 pacer] (Hamlin, NY) finished in 1:39:05
July 28, 2017 Karknocker 5K (East Rochester, NY)
August 9, 2017 Pound the Ground 10K (Mendon, NY)
August 12, 2017 Bergen Road Race 5K (Bergen, NY)
September 3, 2017 Oak Tree Half Marathon (Geneseo, NY)
September 17, 2017 MVP Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
November 23, 2017 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
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1---6.38
2---4.25
4---5.11
8---3.37
12---2.90
14---3.58
15---3.31
16---6.23 really really slow tired hot "run". Pretty sure an old guy called me "disgusting" today. I had all sorts of witty comebacks on the 3 miles back. I ran with my shirt off. Least my disgusting is on the outside! *kitten*. "Disgusting" the name of your self titled porn! I'm not your mistress, you can't talk to me. haha!
35.13/70
Upcoming races
AIM for the Cure- 5K, virual run
Dec 2- POOP trail run, Hoping for a half! Norman OK.
Pre-op PR's
1 mile 8:27 5k 24:42. 10k 1:00.52. HM 2:17.28
Post-op Training PR's
1 mile 10:04 5k 34.27 10k 1:20.253 -
The race made me tired... LOL... at the top of one of the power line hills, some joker had placed a fake skeleton with a hydration vest, running shoes and race bib on it... from 2014... got to love the humor of the trail community!amymoreorless wrote: »@MNLittleFinn Awesome! Just reading the words "the marathon that runs like an ultra" is making me sore and tired.
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5.5 miles today, complete with yet another trip and fall. Banged up my left knee this time. It's pretty nasty looking, but it's just superficial so NBD. I finished my run, came home and cleaned it (hydrogen peroxide STINGS LIKE THE DEVIL) then showered and bandaged it up.
The new house is pretty nice, except we can't get the air conditioning to work. So now we have to wait for a maintenance tech to come out and look at it. Luckily it's not too hot this weekend, but I'd like to have it working for the next time it hits 90 degrees.
Post-run dinner is Penne Rosa from Noodles & Company. Perfect. Really hits the spot.
July total - 53.45 / 80. I'm actually on track for getting closer to 100 so I may raise the goal in the next week. Especially because my boyfriend will be in Bucharest for two weeks and I'll have nothing else to do but run!4 -
7/3: 2.1
7/4: 1.6
7/5: 2.2
7/6: 0.8
7/7: 0.0
7/8: 2.4
7/9: 0.0
7/10: 0.5
7/10: 5.5
7/11: 0.8
7/12: 2
7/13: 1
7/14: 3.7
7/15:
7/16:
7/17:
7/18:
7/19:
7/20:
7/21:
7/22:
7/23:
7/24:
7/25:
7/26:
7/27:
7/28:
7/29:
7/30:
7/31:
Total: 21.6 / 506 -
@RespectTheKitty - I have read that as runners tire that they tend to pick up there feet less, and that makes them more liable to tripping. Something to think about I guess. I typically think about stuff like that after I trip over empty and am trying to find a good excuse for the new knee scar 2
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That was me yesterday, tripped for the first time ever on a run.PastorVincent wrote: »@RespectTheKitty - I have read that as runners tire that they tend to pick up there feet less, and that makes them more liable to tripping. Something to think about I guess. I typically think about stuff like that after I trip over empty and am trying to find a good excuse for the new knee scar
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