I Have Noticed Many People Returning, Having Regained Their Weight ...
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annaskiski wrote: »I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I'm baffled when people say stuff like this. Is tracking calories really that hard? It takes me a few minutes a day on my phone or computer. I certainly don't see that as 'disordered' in any way...
Disordered eating is anorexia, orthorexia, or just plain being 300 lbs and not seeking to change....
No, it's not -- but it's often hard to explain that to people. It's not a question of tracking, but of keeping the count low enough to achieve or maintain weight loss. And being constantly aware -- as many people on this thread can witness!
I'm still in the losing phase: 25 pounds or so to go, 50 already lost. I've just spent 24 days staying with a cousin, helping her pack for her move, and so I wasn't in control of meals, foods and timing: she cooked, and I was in her house, so I ate what she fed me. She is fit and slim, and eats extremely well -- fruits, veggies, protein -- so I wasn't too concerned and wasn't being tightly wound over what I ate. But she didn't react well when I only ate half of what was on my plate at any one meal, and expressed concern that my relationship to food might not be healthy.
So I ate what she considered healthy, balanced meals in reasonable portions for the time I was there. And I came back 7 pounds heavier. 7 pounds in 3 weeks, while eating about 1800 calories a day, if I can guess. I can fix the weight gain, and I am, but -- like several of the commentators above, I'm a 5'4.5" woman in my 50s, and my TDEE is *VANISHINGLY* small -- so my maintenance amount is going to be noticeably tiny.8 -
I'm facinated by how many people seem to feel they need to apologize for not maintaining their weight loss. Maintaining a healthy weight in my opinion is about changing old habits and creating new ones. This is not a simple process. It took me years to figure out what worked for me. Part of my problem was trying to use other people's successes to create my own. I finally realized I had to do what worked for my unique body and personality. Having said that I will always track and weigh weekly to make sure it doesn't get out of control and I'm totally fine with that. I'm not sure what the OP's original purpose was for this post but I think she wanted to ask if there was hope to lose and maintain and I say yes there is. There are several people on here who have done just that and for much longer than I have. As for the rest who have had struggles I just want to say hang in there! You will find your path and it can be done. No need to apologize, we've all been there.21
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psychod787 wrote: »MsHarryWinston wrote: »I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
As someone that has ACTUALLY struggled with an eating disorder I’m going to say that there is a big difference between “disordered eating” and “conscientious eating”. It takes more that just tracking calories and keeping a food diary for someone to flag your habits as disordered. There is also a MENTALITY about food that goes along with the actions. It’s more than the sum of its parts.
If someone makes sure to balance their bank accounts and make sure their bills are paid and credit cards are paid off, it doesn’t mean they are obsessed with money in an unhealthy way. If means they have chosen to take an active, hands on approach to their financial health.
It’s the exact same for maintenance. Calorie counting is simply a tool, it’s not disordered in and of itself. So no, in order to maintain it does not mean people must do it by taking disordered action. Simply by taking action.
ITA! The habits I learned while losing weight here are practically effortless for me now. My logging is less perfect, but if my weight starts to creep up I just tighten it up for a few weeks, see why the creep was happening, and then settle back down.
Any nutritionist who would call keeping a food diary and weighing out portions "disordered" shouldn't have the job in the first place.
Yep. I can't trust myself. There was a reason I got soooooo large. Losing weight was the easy part. Maintaining that loss is the real fight. So, logging weighing and measuring is my ORDER. Being rigid in my diet is now permiatiing into my general life. Hard work and discipline. Planning and organizing my day. Thus not disordered to me, reordered. What's my alternative? Going back? Kitten that, if I can help it!
Losing weight appears easier because there is a clear goal and purpose - an end point.
Maintaining is really the same, but appears more difficult as the goal and purpose are not as clear...and there is no end point. All things work in the same manner. Education for one - finish your semester, year, degree, etc., but the real goal is establishing a pattern of behavior which encourages growth and continued learning.
To effectively maintain we need larger & higher goals beyond a number on a scale. Being a better father, mother, leader, role model... Personal improvement is the strategy. Running a 5k, then hitting sub 30mins in a 5k, then 29mins....these are small goals in service to a larger purpose.
Thanks for the words Doc. You are spot on.1 -
Is tracking calories really that hard?annaskiski wrote: »I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I'm baffled when people say stuff like this. Is tracking calories really that hard?
Um.
Is driving a car with a manual transmission really that hard? ...I no longer even think about it.
Is doing percentages in your head really that hard? ...Not for me.
Is spelling most common words correctly without a spellchecker really that hard? I usually just leave most my spellcheckers turned off so they don't drive me crazy with their limited vocabularies.
Is sewing an invisible hem by hand really that hard? Not at all, once I got the knack of it.
Is naming all the predominantly Muslim countries on an unlabeled world map really that hard? Well, I did confuse Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan that one time...
But food-tracking is hard for me. So is playing the piano, and accessorizing. Some people are better are some things than others.
Calorie tracking, as such, is easy enough. But it make big difference to my body whether I eat 1800 calories worth of Jolly Ranchers, or I create and record a varied menu that meets my various macro and micro nutritional requirements without exceeding my target ranges. That second one is where difficulty starts to comes in.
(But if you've actually got a way that I can stay healthy, lose weight, and keep it off while eating 1800 calories worth of Jolly Ranchers per day, I'm all ears.)
So if I'm eating a healthy and well-balanced diet, weigh 300 lbs, and am not actively trying to lose weight - given that weight loss is a very difficult, seldom successful, and frequently dangerous process - that's disordered eating in your opinion?annaskiski wrote: »Disordered eating is anorexia, orthorexia, or just plain being 300 lbs and not seeking to change....
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I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I can sort of understand what you mean. I don’t think tracking, weighing etc are necessarily ‘disordered’ but they can be very different from a relaxed, intuitive eating approach.
The truth is that stats on regain after significant weight loss are not very encouraging. And in our current age with the wide availability of easy, quick, tasty and high calorie food, combined with busy and stressful yet often sedentary lives, that relaxed, intuitive eating approach can be extremely difficult to achieve.
When I make food choices now - whether those are ‘healthy’ or ‘indulgent’ - they are always with an awareness of the calorie content. That’s not necessarily a bad thing - probably vital for maintenance for most of us. But it is a sort of vigilance, and if it takes up too much thinking time it can feel overwhelming or tiresome.
As with so many things in life, the trick is to achieve some balance. I don’t think I have it yet but that is my ‘goal’ for maintenance. I don’t think I can ever do completely intuitive eating (you can’t really “unlearn” calorie contents!) but hopefully I can get to a point where diet and fitness are more habitual and perhaps take up a little less head space.5 -
Evelyn_Gorfram wrote: »
Is tracking calories really that hard?annaskiski wrote: »I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I'm baffled when people say stuff like this. Is tracking calories really that hard?
Um.
Is driving a car with a manual transmission really that hard? ...I no longer even think about it.
Is doing percentages in your head really that hard? ...Not for me.
Is spelling most common words correctly without a spellchecker really that hard? I usually just leave most my spellcheckers turned off so they don't drive me crazy with their limited vocabularies.
Is sewing an invisible hem by hand really that hard? Not at all, once I got the knack of it.
Is naming all the predominantly Muslim countries on an unlabeled world map really that hard? Well, I did confuse Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan that one time...
But food-tracking is hard for me. So is playing the piano, and accessorizing. Some people are better are some things than others.
Calorie tracking, as such, is easy enough. But it make big difference to my body whether I eat 1800 calories worth of Jolly Ranchers, or I create and record a varied menu that meets my various macro and micro nutritional requirements without exceeding my target ranges. That second one is where difficulty starts to comes in.
(But if you've actually got a way that I can stay healthy, lose weight, and keep it off while eating 1800 calories worth of Jolly Ranchers per day, I'm all ears.)
So if I'm eating a healthy and well-balanced diet, weigh 300 lbs, and am not actively trying to lose weight - given that weight loss is a very difficult, seldom successful, and frequently dangerous process - that's disordered eating in your opinion?annaskiski wrote: »Disordered eating is anorexia, orthorexia, or just plain being 300 lbs and not seeking to change....
Yes, I think it is....2 -
I’ve been on mfp for years. Lost close to 100lbs, was lifting and running. My mother died and I just went into the dark cave of grief. Then my father died. Plus there were a couple of other stressful things going on. In a way, I gave up on myself and went back to ED ways, unfortunately. I regained a portion of what I lost, but dragged myself out of the cave, and now I’m back here and have been logging for a month and lifting for 5 weeks.25
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Most of my life, my weight was never a problem. I could eat what I wanted, in quantities I wanted, and if my weight started to creep up, just cut back on the candy and fast food a little bit.
Then, I got the dreaded desk job. I went from jobs where I was on my feet, moving around, lifting heavy things, to sitting on my butt behind a computer for the better part of 8-10 hours a day.
Since I had never needed to worry about portion sizes or working out simply for the sake of working out, the weight started to creep on. There were ups and downs in there (for example, one summer my sister was visiting and we were out and about and working out together regularly), but the real nail in the coffin was after my divorce and being very financially stretched. Foods like pasta were cheap, and could go a long ways...much further than a bag of frozen vegetables! I wasn't working out, and because I had no money even for gas, I did more and more sitting around the house.
Reached my all time high (not sure sure what it was, what I do know is NONE of my work pants would fit, no matter how much I squeezed). Decided to get after myself, and started counting and tracking and making better food choices (finances were starting to stabilize about this time too).
Got to within 12 pounds of my ultimate goal, and added fitness back in. Put on some weight with the workouts, but eventually started to lose that back off again as well. Then, badly broke my leg in what resulted in 4 different surgeries, months of antibiotics (including 6 weeks of IV antibiotics), and a rather painful and miserable rehab. I pushed through it all, but I didn't care about eating during that time, because that was one of the few things that I enjoyed. I put back on all but about 10 pounds of what I had originally lost.
Since November of last year I was able to slowly get my fitness back, and now that my fitness is stable, I'm back to focusing on losing the weight (I was recomping from Nov-approx May/June timeframe). Struggled to find an eating plan that would work with all aspects of my life, since how i live now is rather different than what my life was like the last time I was successfully losing. Seem to have struck a good balance right now, and the scale is headed the right direction.
Currently I have 15-25 pounds to lose - my goal weight isn't set in stone due to the simple fact that I think I have a lot more muscle mass now than I have historically (due to focused heavy lifting since November), but I have old measurements I can reference to know when I've gotten where I ought to be. I have no intention of changing my eating plan, just modifying as needed once I am back to a "normal" weight.4 -
I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I strongly disagree with this. Accurately tracking food and weighing yourself without all of the mental stuff that goes along with eating disorders is not a red flag and I would stay far far away from any nutritionist or doctor who would label you or diagnose you as having an eating disorder by those criteria alone. Eating at maintenance implies you are not actively restricting or binging. I have been through many eating disorder programs and have never met anyone who was diagnosed because they tracked and weighed themselves at maintenance.12 -
I'm not sure that's what the OP meant by "red flag."singingflutelady wrote: »I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.
I strongly disagree with this. Accurately tracking food and weighing yourself without all of the mental stuff that goes along with eating disorders is not a red flag and I would stay far far away from any nutritionist or doctor who would label you or diagnose you as having an eating disorder by those criteria alone. Eating at maintenance implies you are not actively restricting or binging. I have been through many eating disorder programs and have never met anyone who was diagnosed because they tracked and weighed themselves at maintenance.
When I read OP's post, I thought "Yeah, the nutritionist or doctor might see that someone is assiduously tracking and weighing all their food, and think 'Hunh, maybe I should check up on that.' But then they'd see that the person had no other signs of an eating disorder and was eating a healthy and nutritionally adequate diet, and know that there was nothing to worry about."
When I lived in LA, I often had high blood pressure readings when the nurse took my vitals, which were "red-flagged." But when I mentioned that I'd been caught in traffic, had trouble parking, and then raced to the office so as not to be even later than I was, they just laughed and retook my BP after ten minutes - when it would be perfectly normal.1 -
I've been in the same position as many of you, and like many of you I have valid reasons for having stopped/paused my quest for a healthier life. I find the "why" of my loss-gain-loss-gain spiral less important than the reason this time is different for me.
This time, I'm not making any change (no not a single one) that I can't support forever. I'm not placing self-imposed and ultimately arbitrary time limits on my goals. I'm not doing this for the wrong reasons, but because I want to be healthy and not spend the rest of my life on medicines designed to treat illnesses that I can whip into submission by just making better choices. This time, I refuse to make excuses, and I'm not relying on motivation to keep me moving forward. I'm disciplined, and stable, and I'm done being fat. I'm done.
I feel about this, the same way I felt when I quit smoking years ago: I'm done. I quit cold-turkey and never ever even one time regretted it, cheated, or relied on any crutch. When I was ready (really ready) something snapped into place in my thought process, and I just quit. I felt that same snap when I re-joined MFP to lose the excess baggage.
So many times I've strayed off course and excused myself for very valid reasons. I have to remember that I have a choice. I can choose to travel that old road, or I can choose to blaze a new trail and never look back.4 -
I don't see tracking calories and monitoring intake as disordered. I see it as managing a condition/situation/whatever.
For me I got where I was because I had an issue with food. To address this issue with food I have to take steps to manage that situation. This sort of situation isn't unique to just food. Steps that a "normal" person wouldn't have to. If anything that's more ordered than the alternative.
Someone who has an issue with alcohol will need to consciously manage their alcohol consumption. Steps that a "normal" person wouldn't
Someone who has anger issues will need to consciously manage that issue and take steps to keep it under control. Do things that a "normal" person wouldn't
Someone who has anxiety issues will likely need to employ tactics to help deal with that situation. Tactics that a "normal" person doesn't even need to consider.
Everyone has their own load to bear and everyone needs to do whatever it takes.6 -
I went off the rails when my wife got pregnant and put my weight back on over the past 3 years, started back on MFP this week to get it under control again. If I could go back, i wouldn't have quit using MFP, because I obviously can't control my portions without logging them like I thought I could, and omce got back into my bad habits of binge eating, i kinda gave up.6
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I ended up regaining 100lbs and I honestly have a few excuses but in the end it was my fault but here goes..
I been dealing with mental health issues, severe depression, general anxiety disorder, bipolar 1,Ptsd, emotional trauma as adolescent/adult. (all logged in my health chart) and another one that I won't be sharing. I've also recently got married and was told by my pcp that it's common to gain some weight after marriage.
I'm also going through a bankruptcy and almost my house. I had the bankruptcy filed 3 days before it was to be foreclosed. My friend has been screwing me over as well. I been harassed, had death threats just for being different. My wife has too.
On top of that my parents hated me for a while because of my sexuality and gender identity. I lost my job at Comcast because of a work injury that they would no longer keep me off work despite not being able to move my shoulder. I gained 30 pounds in a few months because of that.11 -
Same here. Came back after every pregnancy and hopefully for the last time now lol.0
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cerise_noir wrote: »I’ve been on mfp for years. Lost close to 100lbs, was lifting and running. My mother died and I just went into the dark cave of grief. Then my father died. Plus there were a couple of other stressful things going on. In a way, I gave up on myself and went back to ED ways, unfortunately. I regained a portion of what I lost, but dragged myself out of the cave, and now I’m back here and have been logging for a month and lifting for 5 weeks.
Just wanted to extend my condolences.
It is hard losing one parent, losing both close together would devastate me.
Gottosay though, welcome back, you've been missed.
Cheers, h.4 -
Thank you for the kind welcome! It’s nice to be back!middlehaitch wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »I’ve been on mfp for years. Lost close to 100lbs, was lifting and running. My mother died and I just went into the dark cave of grief. Then my father died. Plus there were a couple of other stressful things going on. In a way, I gave up on myself and went back to ED ways, unfortunately. I regained a portion of what I lost, but dragged myself out of the cave, and now I’m back here and have been logging for a month and lifting for 5 weeks.
Just wanted to extend my condolences.
It is hard losing one parent, losing both close together would devastate me.
Gottosay though, welcome back, you've been missed.
Cheers, h.
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I haven't read all of the entries yet, but something just hit me: does it occur to anyone else that the only way we can really maintain our goal weights is through what a nutritionist would call 'disordered eating'?
I'm not saying this is bad. But if the only people who keep the weight off for any realistic amount of time are those who carefully calculate their TDEE, keep track of their calorie intake, keep a food diary, weigh and measure their portions and weigh themselves regularly -- all of those practices are the sort of things that an eating disorders specialist would red-flag.
It's troubling. I think we're right -- you do what you need to do, and I know that I can't eat a 'healthy diet' and maintain my weight loss -- but it's a difficult practice to defend.MsHarryWinston wrote: »As someone that has ACTUALLY struggled with an eating disorder I’m going to say that there is a big difference between “disordered eating” and “conscientious eating”. It takes more that just tracking calories and keeping a food diary for someone to flag your habits as disordered. There is also a MENTALITY about food that goes along with the actions. It’s more than the sum of its parts.
If someone makes sure to balance their bank accounts and make sure their bills are paid and credit cards are paid off, it doesn’t mean they are obsessed with money in an unhealthy way. If means they have chosen to take an active, hands on approach to their financial health.
It’s the exact same for maintenance. Calorie counting is simply a tool, it’s not disordered in and of itself. So no, in order to maintain it does not mean people must do it by taking disordered action. Simply by taking action.
Agreeing that it is the mentality around the action that makes it disordered or not.
And you beat me to the financial organization example 2 -
cerise_noir wrote: »
Thank you for the kind welcome! It’s nice to be back!middlehaitch wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »I’ve been on mfp for years. Lost close to 100lbs, was lifting and running. My mother died and I just went into the dark cave of grief. Then my father died. Plus there were a couple of other stressful things going on. In a way, I gave up on myself and went back to ED ways, unfortunately. I regained a portion of what I lost, but dragged myself out of the cave, and now I’m back here and have been logging for a month and lifting for 5 weeks.
Just wanted to extend my condolences.
It is hard losing one parent, losing both close together would devastate me.
Gottosay though, welcome back, you've been missed.
Cheers, h.
Welcome back cerise! My condolences3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »
Thank you for the kind welcome! It’s nice to be back!middlehaitch wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »I’ve been on mfp for years. Lost close to 100lbs, was lifting and running. My mother died and I just went into the dark cave of grief. Then my father died. Plus there were a couple of other stressful things going on. In a way, I gave up on myself and went back to ED ways, unfortunately. I regained a portion of what I lost, but dragged myself out of the cave, and now I’m back here and have been logging for a month and lifting for 5 weeks.
Just wanted to extend my condolences.
It is hard losing one parent, losing both close together would devastate me.
Gottosay though, welcome back, you've been missed.
Cheers, h.
Welcome back cerise! My condolences
Thank you! It’s nice to see you too! 2
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