Ketogenic diet
Replies
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You did see that this is in the DEBATE section?Sad to see so much keto/low carb bashing here. Obviously, different things work for different people. If low carb works for some people, who are we to tell them not to do it? Sometimes, a person has to choose a plan that they feel like they can stick with and follow consistently. Sometimes, the results from one eating plan are different than another eating plan depending on your health circumstances, allergies, cravings, food likes and dislikes, etc. Everyone should have the right to follow whatever plan they are comfortable with, without fear of reprisal from a community that is supposed to be supportive and motivating.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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A "diet" should be sustainable, so unless you can do a ketogenic diet or any restrictive diet for that matter, for the long haul, its probably not good plan and will likely provide little to no benefit in the long run. The opinion of the dietitian I work with, and likely the opinion of most dietitians is that cutting a food group/macro-nutrient out of your diet, or dramatically restricting that food group is generally not a long term weight loss solution. The body needs all macro-nutrients for various functions, if you remove one you might lose weight but you will pay for it in other ways. Furthermore it is highly unlikely that a short term diet like keto, whole30 or similar fads will result in long term weight loss when only held to for a short while. Simple changes like portion control are a much more sustainable option for long term weight loss and maintenance.11
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Given that the ketogenic diet can trace it's name back to 1921, It probably wouldn't qualify as a "fad" lol. But as so many have said, definitely not for everyone. Personally I'm enjoying it, but I would be highly reluctant to recommend it. Most people would benefit from just learning about the food they eat and making some sensible modifications to their diet.8
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Given that the ketogenic diet can trace it's name back to 1921, It probably wouldn't qualify as a "fad" lol. But as so many have said, definitely not for everyone. Personally I'm enjoying it, but I would be highly reluctant to recommend it. Most people would benefit from just learning about the food they eat and making some sensible modifications to their diet.
How long something has been around doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not it's a fad...Given the huge influx of keto followers over the last two to three years, and all of the wild miraculous claims out there on various sites and magazines, I'd definitely say it's a fad at the moment.
A fad just means that it's "in" at the moment and being followed by a significant amount of people...they come and go, but that doesn't mean they just completely go away...they just cease to be the fad of the moment.
When I first started, it was paleo this and paleo that and every other post on here was paleo...it's still around obviously, but not nearly the fad it was 5+ years ago.15 -
Given that the ketogenic diet can trace it's name back to 1921, It probably wouldn't qualify as a "fad" lol. But as so many have said, definitely not for everyone. Personally I'm enjoying it, but I would be highly reluctant to recommend it. Most people would benefit from just learning about the food they eat and making some sensible modifications to their diet.
The modified ketogenic diet today is not the same as the keto diet on the 20s. But based on the full 180 of fat is bad to now carb is bad, it can definitely be a fad diet.5 -
It goes back even further than that to the Banting diet, which was designed to remove refined and rich food. But just because it carries historical significance doesn't mean it can't become a fad. The very act of eating has been paramount in evolution and it's been turned into a fad by manipulating agriculture and flavors to create hedonistic calorie bombs and "snobs" of food culture.
The ketogenic diet that originated in the 20s was designed to treat epilepsy in children. Stating that a medically induced intervention should be applied to all people is what creates the basis for a fad to begin. You manipulate its original intention just to gorge on copious amounts of fat for what purpose if you don't suffer from seizures?9 -
crisscott11 wrote: »Yes? No? Why?
No, because I lift and don't want to feel like *kitten* at the gym. Carbs may not be essential, but I want to thrive and perform at my best at the gym. Having no carbs to fuel my workout doesn't do that and there's a reason athletes have high carb diets. Also there is no need, why should I restrict my food selection when all that matters to me is being in a caloric deficit? When I am cutting (aka fat loss phase), I already hate the fact that I have to reduce my calories, why make it even more miserable by getting rid of my favorite foods when I could still reach my goals with carbs in my diet?
If keto is your thing, go ahead, I don't care, but I am just giving out my opinion because...well it was asked for all of us to send out our opinion.7 -
But fads come and go. Skateboarding was in back in the 70's, died down and returned at the turn of the century. Just because something has been around for awhile, doesn't mean it can't be resurrected or reinvented as a new fad for a generation that didn't experience it previously.Given that the ketogenic diet can trace it's name back to 1921, It probably wouldn't qualify as a "fad" lol. But as so many have said, definitely not for everyone. Personally I'm enjoying it, but I would be highly reluctant to recommend it. Most people would benefit from just learning about the food they eat and making some sensible modifications to their diet.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Isn't Keto basically Adkins?
Pros: I did Adkins induction plan way back in ... 1997 or so ... lost 20 plus lbs quickly & easily.
Cons: I didn't like eating so much high-fat food. I felt sick to my stomach all the time (OMG this was before I figured out that I have and always have had a dairy sensitivity! - no wonder Adkins made me feel sick). I gained all those 20 lbs back and more - 20 more.
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Based on my second hand knowledge...
I watched a documentary about what Fat and Sugar are used for and how... The person who was on the low carb diet ended up losing 2kg of muscle mass but also lost 2kg of fat. Keto diets are very dangerous for people with diabetes apparently.3 -
It's been recommended to me more than once, and once by a coach I trust. I tend not to look very well when I eat high carb. I think it's possible I might feel better on high fat but I'm nervous to give up my volume eating. At the same time, I'm tired of having a big belly at the end of the day because of all the volume.0
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Based on my second hand knowledge...
I watched a documentary about what Fat and Sugar are used for and how... The person who was on the low carb diet ended up losing 2kg of muscle mass but also lost 2kg of fat. Keto diets are very dangerous for people with diabetes apparently.
It is the opposite. Very low carb diets (including ketogenic diets) are very good for regulating glucose levels for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics.
Many people confuse ketosis and ketoacidosis; which are not even close to being the same thing. Those with limited knowledge sometimes assume that eating a ketogenic diet will result in diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) in type 1 patients. DKA is a very dangerous condition that can cause a coma or death. DKA is associated with increased BG. A very low carbohydrate diet, when combined with an appropriate regimen of basal insulin and bolus insulins as appropriate (for any carbohydrates consumed, for BG corrections if necessary, and for protein consumption) can prevent the conditions that cause DKA.
Consider that Dr. Bernstein, a well-known and well-respected endocrinologist who is also a type 1 diabetic, has successfully achieved non-diabetic BG's with a low carb diet.9 -
Yes, because I have other health concerns where a keto diet is helpful. For general weight loss...sure, if you like it, but it's not the only/best way to do it.3
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It can make sense for some people, particularly those with diabetes or those who are sensitive to high carb diets. However, I think the "science" that's often attributed to it is questionable at best, and that really grinds me. It's usually more "bro science" than real science. I think most people do not understand the original principles of keto. In fact, at this point I don't think a lot of keto dieters even know what the original ideas behind keto were, because the community has been hijacked by a bunch of people who seem to think drinking bacon grease for breakfast is fine and that pork rinds are better for you than any type of fruit. This is more of a problem with the community than the diet itself, but I think it's hard to separate the two when most people seeking info about a diet are going to turn to its community.
I'm also not convinced that maintaining ketosis for extended periods of time is healthy for more-or-less metabolically normal people.
When it comes to weight loss, calories matter, in the end. However, if keto or otherwise eating low carb helps you meet your calorie limits by increasing your satiety and it's a lifestyle you can stick with, then go for it. However, it's not the end-all be-all. It's not required for weight loss or good health, and it doesn't necessarily work for everybody.5 -
@Zodikosis you make a good point that there can be a disconnect between the foundation of Keto or any other Way Of Eating and the people talking about that WOE and calories do matter.
Keto is not good or bad because of who in Hollywood is talking about it today.
In the end in my case my WOE has to work to improve my health markers as much as possible. The WOE that works the best is the ONE I need to be eating. If my health markers start to decline I will have to look for the cause(s) and may need to change my WOE or other factors.
There is nothing magical about any WOE. It either works, does not work or works so so. As my work, age, etc changes I have to keep revisiting the effectiveness of my WOE.9 -
I started Keto last Saturday cuz I hit the magic-trigger-weight of 5 pounds over goal...6 days later back at goal with a little wiggle room.
Granted that part of that weight loss was probably a little water retention from salty foods...and when I do Keto for real, I never snack. Let's say this accounts for 4 of the 5.4 pounds lost. But I did lose more than those two things account for. Exercise was the same before and during Keto.
Keto works for me. Doing Keto for a week is fine, for me. I would never make it a month because - pasta.1 -
Yes for me... it means i dont crave, binge, over eat, my thyroid is easier to keep even (first time in 25 years), i sleep better and dont have a 3 oclock slump in energy. I follow a low carb medium protein high fat. I usually eat 2x day. Mid morning (salad, oil vinegar seasoning dressing, meat, whole egg full fat mayo, avocado or olives) and mid afternoon (meat/egg/mushrooms, vege, dairy, added fat) works best for me!
I'm not worried about weight control but it helps keep body shape in check.
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What I’ve learned from reading about everyone’s knowledge of loosing weight and nutrition is then why if you have all this knowledge then why are most people struggling to either loose or maintain their weight!! It has to be more then simply CICO! People believe this then think its possible to gain 5 lbs overnight because of a cheat meal from the night before or lost 5 lbs in a week!! If you really want to know if your diet is working then measure your body fat! Who wants to loose weight if it means loosing muscle also!!19
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What I’ve learned from reading about everyone’s knowledge of loosing weight and nutrition is then why if you have all this knowledge then why are most people struggling to either loose or maintain their weight!! It has to be more then simply CICO! People believe this then think its possible to gain 5 lbs overnight because of a cheat meal from the night before or lost 5 lbs in a week!! If you really want to know if your diet is working then measure your body fat! Who wants to loose weight if it means loosing muscle also!!
Losing weight means losing muscle as well, there's no way around that. You can minimize muscle loss by doing a progressive weight training program while losing, but muscle will be lost.
Most people know that they lose weight when they expend more energy than they take in [CI (calories in) is less than CO (calories out)]. Because some people don't understand the concept, or have a poor understanding of how many calories they're actually eating, and how many it takes to actually gain or lose a lb doesn't negate the fact that if you eat more than you burn you will gain weight, if you eat less you will lose it.
edited for clarity5 -
What I’ve learned from reading about everyone’s knowledge of loosing weight and nutrition is then why if you have all this knowledge then why are most people struggling to either loose or maintain their weight!! It has to be more then simply CICO! People believe this then think its possible to gain 5 lbs overnight because of a cheat meal from the night before or lost 5 lbs in a week!! If you really want to know if your diet is working then measure your body fat! Who wants to loose weight if it means loosing muscle also!!
If saving money is simply earning more than you're spending, why isn't everyone rich?
Because simple and easy aren't interchangable words.12 -
stevencloser wrote: »What I’ve learned from reading about everyone’s knowledge of loosing weight and nutrition is then why if you have all this knowledge then why are most people struggling to either loose or maintain their weight!! It has to be more then simply CICO! People believe this then think its possible to gain 5 lbs overnight because of a cheat meal from the night before or lost 5 lbs in a week!! If you really want to know if your diet is working then measure your body fat! Who wants to loose weight if it means loosing muscle also!!
If saving money is simply earning more than you're spending, why isn't everyone rich?
Because simple and easy aren't interchangable words.
I'd argue that saving money isn't earning more than your spending- it's spending less than your making.
Which is much like what you said- while they sound the same- they aren't interchangeable.2 -
Earn more/spend less.2
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Earn more/spend less.
LOL- yes. I'd argue most people are living WAY above their means though- so learning how to spend less is probably more important than earning more.2 -
Doesn't seem sustainable, but that's just my opinion.1
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Before I went Keto I had issues with my mood and suffered from hypoglycemia (I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes at the age of eight). I often had trouble focusing in school and had at least one glycemic event per week. My running was good, but it could of been better. I’ve decided to go Keto after seeing my mother benefit both mentally and physically from the diet, and ever since I’ve been living a even better life. My mood has gotten significantly better, my hypoglycemia is non-existent, and I’ve had many improvements to my endurance sports. Despite the somewhat-popular belief that fat makes you fat, my weight has remained unchanged.
Since starting Keto at 16 I was 5'9 and 150 lbs. Now (age nineteen) I am... 5'9 and 150 lbs with 8% body fat. My LDL level (amount of "bad" cholesterol in my body) for this year is 137mg/dL, which is normal despite consuming 30-60g of saturated fats a day (the fat we actually need to avoid is Trans fats).
So in my case in the realm of diabetes, mood, cholesterol, athletics, and education I see lots of benefits to the lifestyle. The only downside is that you have to maintain an active lifestyle in order to see the benefits take fruit. During my last semester of high school I had EMT school - which made me busy enough to significantly decrease my physical activities throughout the five months. In consequence I went from 9% body fat to 13%, but after graduating and going back to working out regularly I went from 13% to 8%. Can it work? Through my experience, yes it can. Is it for everyone? I believe that it has potential for everyone, but ultimately it depends on how they're executing the diet.
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What I’ve learned from reading about everyone’s knowledge of loosing weight and nutrition is then why if you have all this knowledge then why are most people struggling to either loose or maintain their weight!! It has to be more then simply CICO! People believe this then think its possible to gain 5 lbs overnight because of a cheat meal from the night before or lost 5 lbs in a week!! If you really want to know if your diet is working then measure your body fat! Who wants to loose weight if it means loosing muscle also!!
People who understand CICO don't think it's possible to gain 5 lbs overnight from a cheat meal, or lose 5 lbs in a week - because they understand that there are factors that influence water weight fluctuations and that the overall trend would be directionally correct when focusing on using the principles of CICO to influence an indivdual's energy balance.
As to why people struggle to lose weight and maintain the weight loss - the concept of CICO is very simple, but that doesn't mean it is easy to implement the steps necessary to create that calorie deficit in a way that is sustainable, provides adequate nutrition and satiety for an individual.
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https://selfhacked.com/blog/natural-ways-to-improve-mitochondrial-function/?utm_source=Notification
Per this source keto is one way of many ways to increase quality and quantity of mitochondrial (power source for life) in our cells.
"4) Ketogenic diet
The ketogenic diet is a high-fat, low-carb diet that switches your body from running on carbs to running on fats [R].
When we break down fats for energy, small molecules called ketone bodies are produced that are used for the production of ATP instead of glucose. This results in improved mitochondrial function (PGC-1alpha, SIRT1/3, AMPK activation), higher levels of ATP from the electron transport chain, and overall cellular health [R].
One study found that a ketogenic diet slowed down mitochondrial myopathy (muscle disease) in mice in part by increasing the number of new mitochondria (mitochondrial biogenesis) [R]."21 -
If CICO wasn't that simple, all people would have to do to lose weight is eat only fatty foods without limits....but how is it that they would still gain weight by doing that? Oh right, CICO which is why people post on mfp their frustrations over their weight gain on keto. They fail to realize that they still need to do CICO. And if you're someone who works out, keto is the worst diet you can do to preserve muscles. Studies after studies show it. There's a reason why athletes like Michael Phelps eat a ton of carbs and are not asked by their trainers to go on a ketogenic diet.7
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