Guys who lift, getting advice from chicks...?
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glassofroses wrote: »glassofroses wrote: »I'm not sure where I come down on this, just because I train in martial arts and we tend to have a high turn of people and that's fine, but currently one of our trainers is in her final month of pregnancy and as one of the most experienced students with a high level of control, she has me pair with new people, guys/girls whoever, so that they can get the benefits of being with someone who knows what they're doing, can spot problems as they come up and can actually work with them, i.e. put two new people on the pads together, it's kind of ridiculous. Basically you're getting a better end of the deal that I am...
Martial arts training is quite a different environment from the weight room though. It's a group activity and, at least in the martial arts I've studied, senior students are expected to take on the role of helping junior students/lower belts. There's an established hierarchy based upon seniority/belt rank and also an inherent (and often codified) element of respect and discipline, both of which are completely unlike the weight room.
If I'm in a group class practicing martial arts, I expect to be guided/taught/corrected by ranking students. If I'm in the weight room lifting by myself (i.e., not in a group setting such as Crossfit or something), I don't need or even want some rando coming over and trying to tell me how to do things. In a martial arts class I can see their belt rank, probably know the person and have probably seen them work out/teach - maybe even sparred with them a few times - so I have an idea of what their level of expertise is. In the gym, I have no idea who this rando is, or what his level of expertise (or lack thereof) is. And there's a whole lot less stupid going on in the average martial arts class than there is in the average gym.
I definitely agree about it being a different environment, but what I was getting at is that sometimes the attitude of refusing help because they know better is the based on preconceptions rather than a lack of experience/skill by the person offering it. And that maybe shutting a person down before they've even had a chance to speak is cutting your nose off to spite your face a bit.
In my dojo when it comes to day to day training/sparring etcetera we don't wear our belts or even our uniforms, instead we wear what's comfortable. For me, that is my uniform trousers and whatever Nike pro shirt I've grabbed out of the wash. For some of the guys, it's the same or it's shorts and a vest. We also have ladies in standard workout gear. It's a true mish mash because not everyone who attends is interested in progressing further in martial arts or competing but we all mix in together. So to look at me there isn't a visual indicator of my experience other than the fact that I have been specifically asked by my trainer to help. It doesn't take anything but common sense to realise that I've been asked because I'm experienced but some people are so caught up in their preconceptions or their own ego that they don't want to accept the help that's being offered to them. Or willfully try to correct me. I can appreciate that they're offering me advice, like someone in the gym might, but I can also turn around and say with confidence that while I appreciate it, I've been training long enough to know my stuff. So in that respect the(/my) dojo is like a gym. I think that there should always be a free flow exchange of ideas and experience and we shouldn't shut ourselves off from that because of our egos. If someone's trying to help maybe they know something you don't. Maybe they don't and you've just wasted 10 minutes of your life. Still doesn't hurt to hear them out. If you're in the mood for it.
And you'd be surprised how much stupid goes on in martial arts, particularly when it comes to hip rotation/knee placement. I genuinely don't know how some can physically kick the side of a pad but also have their knee turned up towards the ceiling at the same time. I see it over and over and it defies physics I'm sure of it.
But you aren't getting the other side.
You don't know that person in the gym...you don't know their skill level or education etc. Has nothing to do with ego.
In the dojo I expect that it would be rare for unknowns to be there at all...(my son is in martial arts too) so it would be common knowledge who has what belt color and if they know their stuff and if they are an unknown then the correct thing to do is ask questions about their skill level (which btw is different then asking question about weight lifting because just being a PT or lifting for 10 years doesn't mean you have good skill/knowledge) belt levels require testing...so it is a good indicator.
Not so much in a gym. Again I will say this...I will not offer advice to people who don't ask for it...not my place as i don't know them, their level or anything like that...and if offered to me I won't be rude but it's not appreciated if it it's unsolicited.
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glassofroses wrote: »glassofroses wrote: »I'm not sure where I come down on this, just because I train in martial arts and we tend to have a high turn of people and that's fine, but currently one of our trainers is in her final month of pregnancy and as one of the most experienced students with a high level of control, she has me pair with new people, guys/girls whoever, so that they can get the benefits of being with someone who knows what they're doing, can spot problems as they come up and can actually work with them, i.e. put two new people on the pads together, it's kind of ridiculous. Basically you're getting a better end of the deal that I am...
Martial arts training is quite a different environment from the weight room though. It's a group activity and, at least in the martial arts I've studied, senior students are expected to take on the role of helping junior students/lower belts. There's an established hierarchy based upon seniority/belt rank and also an inherent (and often codified) element of respect and discipline, both of which are completely unlike the weight room.
If I'm in a group class practicing martial arts, I expect to be guided/taught/corrected by ranking students. If I'm in the weight room lifting by myself (i.e., not in a group setting such as Crossfit or something), I don't need or even want some rando coming over and trying to tell me how to do things. In a martial arts class I can see their belt rank, probably know the person and have probably seen them work out/teach - maybe even sparred with them a few times - so I have an idea of what their level of expertise is. In the gym, I have no idea who this rando is, or what his level of expertise (or lack thereof) is. And there's a whole lot less stupid going on in the average martial arts class than there is in the average gym.
I definitely agree about it being a different environment, but what I was getting at is that sometimes the attitude of refusing help because they know better is the based on preconceptions rather than a lack of experience/skill by the person offering it. And that maybe shutting a person down before they've even had a chance to speak is cutting your nose off to spite your face a bit.
In my dojo when it comes to day to day training/sparring etcetera we don't wear our belts or even our uniforms, instead we wear what's comfortable. For me, that is my uniform trousers and whatever Nike pro shirt I've grabbed out of the wash. For some of the guys, it's the same or it's shorts and a vest. We also have ladies in standard workout gear. It's a true mish mash because not everyone who attends is interested in progressing further in martial arts or competing but we all mix in together. So to look at me there isn't a visual indicator of my experience other than the fact that I have been specifically asked by my trainer to help. It doesn't take anything but common sense to realise that I've been asked because I'm experienced but some people are so caught up in their preconceptions or their own ego that they don't want to accept the help that's being offered to them. Or willfully try to correct me. I can appreciate that they're offering me advice, like someone in the gym might, but I can also turn around and say with confidence that while I appreciate it, I've been training long enough to know my stuff. So in that respect the(/my) dojo is like a gym. I think that there should always be a free flow exchange of ideas and experience and we shouldn't shut ourselves off from that because of our egos. If someone's trying to help maybe they know something you don't. Maybe they don't and you've just wasted 10 minutes of your life. Still doesn't hurt to hear them out. If you're in the mood for it.
And you'd be surprised how much stupid goes on in martial arts, particularly when it comes to hip rotation/knee placement. I genuinely don't know how some can physically kick the side of a pad but also have their knee turned up towards the ceiling at the same time. I see it over and over and it defies physics I'm sure of it.
But you aren't getting the other side.
You don't know that person in the gym...you don't know their skill level or education etc. Has nothing to do with ego.
In the dojo I expect that it would be rare for unknowns to be there at all...(my son is in martial arts too) so it would be common knowledge who has what belt color and if they know their stuff and if they are an unknown then the correct thing to do is ask questions about their skill level (which btw is different then asking question about weight lifting because just being a PT or lifting for 10 years doesn't mean you have good skill/knowledge) belt levels require testing...so it is a good indicator.
Not so much in a gym. Again I will say this...I will not offer advice to people who don't ask for it...not my place as i don't know them, their level or anything like that...and if offered to me I won't be rude but it's not appreciated if it it's unsolicited.
Scuba diving is another one - if I notice someone hasn't rigged their equipment properly or was doing something unsafe in the water, I would immediately point it out, and would hope someone would do the same for me, because mistakes can be deadly. In a gym, I just don't see the same urgency, and unless I know the person, I am not providing feedback on form.2 -
TashaaaKayeee wrote: »So I have been hitting the gym for almost two years now. When I first started, I learned everything on my own from bodybuilding.com, youtube, articles & so now.
Lately when I'm at the weight deck I see some guys lifting & I can tell their form is all wrong & it looks like they're about to hurt themselves. At times it's like guys that look in their 30's but then I see I (not trying to be mean or judgmental) boy teenagers who are "tiny" trying to lift heavy weights & everything they're doing is just waaaaay wrong! Just looking at them I cringe!
I know a lot of people at the gym just mind their own business but never have I seen another guy help out ANOTHER guy! I feel like I should say something so they won't get hurt (nicely of course) but I'm not sure how.
I guess I'm asking for those of you who go to the gym, what would you do?
Guys, if a girl came up to you saying you're probably doing it wrong, would be offended? embarrassed? take the advice?
Girls, if you were in my shoes, would you say something?
I feel like it's easier for a guy to go to another guy or even a girl to suggest something rather than a girl going to a guy.
Thoughts?
I have been lifting for 23 years (almost).
So I would be fine if a woman approached me and said my form or technique is wrong.
Since I can't watch a mirror 100% of the time while performing an exercise, I may miss something or not be aware that my mechanics are off..
I for one welcome a diff. POV From guy or girl.0 -
I frequent a gym semi-regularly and it took me a long time to work up the confidence to venture into the free weights section and I still prefer to lift at home because I still feel really out of place and like I'm being judged. So if someone was to approach me and say "you are doing this wrong" or some variation of that, no matter how nice the person is I'm gonna assume they were looking at me and laughing behind my back. I'm also probably never going back to the gym out of embarrassment! The only advice I take on my form is from the guy teaching the fitness class I attend, cos he is a professional and I know he has learned about this stuff. You never know, some of these guys may have been shown a different form by a professional.
Anyone approaches me with "I watched a youtube video and you're doing it wrong" I'm not gonna even entertain that.
I would say you are letting your insecurities get the best of you then.
I don't really approach people and say anything to them, but I can watch them and see they are doing something wrong and I do debate if I should say something...I usually don't.
But I can tell with how they are doing it, they are gonna hurt themselves....in time.
And most of your serious gym goers won't be laughing at you.
I sure don't, I don't have time to for one....and I already feel awkward in the gym myself.0 -
I'd just leave them alone. However, I had one man who was asked if he could work in at the power rack, suddenly start telling me how to do the barbell row. I just said oh ok and smiled. I generally want to be left alone though.0
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Sometimes I think about how what I am doing on any given day would look like to others at the gym and I realise nobody knows what you're up to that day, what your injuries or goals are or anything, so I keep to myself and wouldn't say anything at all.1
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I frequent a gym semi-regularly and it took me a long time to work up the confidence to venture into the free weights section and I still prefer to lift at home because I still feel really out of place and like I'm being judged. So if someone was to approach me and say "you are doing this wrong" or some variation of that, no matter how nice the person is I'm gonna assume they were looking at me and laughing behind my back. I'm also probably never going back to the gym out of embarrassment! The only advice I take on my form is from the guy teaching the fitness class I attend, cos he is a professional and I know he has learned about this stuff. You never know, some of these guys may have been shown a different form by a professional.
Anyone approaches me with "I watched a youtube video and you're doing it wrong" I'm not gonna even entertain that.
I would say you are letting your insecurities get the best of you then.
Absolutely! I am very insecure when it comes to my work outs. Maybe its a former chubby girl thing, but I always feel like this in the gym. I feel like everyone knows the "system" and I don't.
I have no issue taking advice from a pro though, someone who I know has studied and worked in the field. The trainers in my gym are great, really nice and take the time to help us out so I have to admit I appreciate their input. When someone is a "pro" because they spent time watching youtube, I have to admit, that advice (to me) is unwelcome because that's what makes me feel like people are giving me the gym side eyes. If a professional trainer says "hey, try this" that's cool.
And most of your serious gym goers won't be laughing at you.
I sure don't, I don't have time to for one....and I already feel awkward in the gym myself.
I really hope as I get use to the gym I can lose the awkward feeling!! Fingers crossed!!0 -
I frequent a gym semi-regularly and it took me a long time to work up the confidence to venture into the free weights section and I still prefer to lift at home because I still feel really out of place and like I'm being judged. So if someone was to approach me and say "you are doing this wrong" or some variation of that, no matter how nice the person is I'm gonna assume they were looking at me and laughing behind my back. I'm also probably never going back to the gym out of embarrassment! The only advice I take on my form is from the guy teaching the fitness class I attend, cos he is a professional and I know he has learned about this stuff. You never know, some of these guys may have been shown a different form by a professional.
Anyone approaches me with "I watched a youtube video and you're doing it wrong" I'm not gonna even entertain that.
I would say you are letting your insecurities get the best of you then.
Absolutely! I am very insecure when it comes to my work outs. Maybe its a former chubby girl thing, but I always feel like this in the gym. I feel like everyone knows the "system" and I don't.
I have no issue taking advice from a pro though, someone who I know has studied and worked in the field. The trainers in my gym are great, really nice and take the time to help us out so I have to admit I appreciate their input. When someone is a "pro" because they spent time watching youtube, I have to admit, that advice (to me) is unwelcome because that's what makes me feel like people are giving me the gym side eyes. If a professional trainer says "hey, try this" that's cool.
And most of your serious gym goers won't be laughing at you.
I sure don't, I don't have time to for one....and I already feel awkward in the gym myself.
I really hope as I get use to the gym I can lose the awkward feeling!! Fingers crossed!!
One thing I will say is that your "pro" guys in the gym are prolly far more in the know then some of your gym's trainers.....they just choose not to be a trainer.
I have been lifting myself for almost 23 years....I don't know everything, and I always look for advice and input from others, because they may have a perspective I have not thought of...
But I still see myself as fairly knowledgeable. But I don't have a desire to be a trainer.
That would be something similar to looking at Lyle MacDonald. Guy is very knowledgeable, but to look at him, he doesn't look like he would be someone you would take advice from. Alan Aaragon is another.
Have you thought of finding a workout partner to go with you?
They may help with the awkward feeling in the gym
I always offer women that I know, if they wish to start working with free weights, to let me know and I would go with them. I know it can be intimidating in that area of the gym. But once you get going, you shut everything out and just do you.2 -
Unless someone is about to die, I don't say a thing.
I've had some really bad advice come out of the mouths of "champions" Not just when I'm lifting, but even when I'm just doing cardio.
The other day, a guy told me I should turn the arc trainer up to 100 during my hour long cardio work out. Hmmm, no. F-off. I was working my heart not my legs that day.
I've been told my squats weren't deep enough, when they were below 90 degrees. I can't go low, I have hip bursitis and a wonky joint. I could literally hurt myself permanently if I went as low as a 19 year old boy can.
We used to have a guy at our gym I called "good form guy". He liked to go around and fix everyones form, or just come by and say - good form man. He was 12 types of annoying.
Male or female, doesn't matter. Put your ear buds in, and don't even look at the other people. I see young boys lifting weights they can't handle without swinging them all day long, I just look at the wall and do my own thing. I'm not their mother.
It's not about taking advice from a woman, it's about minding your own business, regardless of sex - Unless someone is doing something so dangerous they are about to die.4 -
No problem accepting advice (even unsolicited) from anyone (male or female) who I know and is at least vaguely aware of my goals. Unsolicited advice from anyone else is politely ignored.
If you don't know them and it's not dangerous..let them get on with it...1 -
#legpress I’m pretty much oblivious to everyone when I’m in the gym, except when guys (never girls) ask me if I need a spot or when guys (never girls) take the 45 pound disks from the Leg Press rack without asking because it seems they think I won’t be needing them. I do.
I have asked trainers to intervene only a couple times when it seems injury is imminent.
OP, it seems like you have great intentions, folks may just not take it that way, all gender-identity aside. Maybe turn that into a PT certificate so you can really help people.
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go heavy or go home .. whats wrong with going heavy?3
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I am surprised at how many people would see receiving polite advice as offensive. Why is that - can you not see it as well-meaning advice? If you know better (which, in many cases, you might), then you can simply tell them that, too. Clearly, it would be wrong to interrupt somebody's workout, or to persist when they signal that they don't want to hear from you, but if someone approached me politely, especially about something I might not be able to recognise myself, I would be grateful, or at least assume they meant well.
I try to follow this, and wish it were more mainstream: http://lesswrong.com/lw/jis/tell_culture/2 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »I am surprised at how many people would see receiving polite advice as offensive. Why is that - can you not see it as well-meaning advice? If you know better (which, in many cases, you might), then you can simply tell them that, too. Clearly, it would be wrong to interrupt somebody's workout, or to persist when they signal that they don't want to hear from you, but if someone approached me politely, especially about something I might not be able to recognise myself, I would be grateful, or at least assume they meant well.
I try to follow this, and wish it were more mainstream: http://lesswrong.com/lw/jis/tell_culture/
perhaps it's because of a few things such as...
If they were doing their own workout they wouldn't have enough time to critique others.
THey may not know the person who is getting the advice or their history and their advice may be harmful to that individual
AS well any advice given esp in that type of situation is indicative of the person giving the advice assuming too much and the person getting the advice being told that they aren't that smart so wouldn't really know what they are doing...aka being called stupid etc
Not saying that's how I feel but that's what I imagine is the issue.
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tomaattikastike wrote: »I am surprised at how many people would see receiving polite advice as offensive. Why is that - can you not see it as well-meaning advice? If you know better (which, in many cases, you might), then you can simply tell them that, too. Clearly, it would be wrong to interrupt somebody's workout, or to persist when they signal that they don't want to hear from you, but if someone approached me politely, especially about something I might not be able to recognise myself, I would be grateful, or at least assume they meant well.
I try to follow this, and wish it were more mainstream: http://lesswrong.com/lw/jis/tell_culture/
Because well-meaning advice isn't always good advice. This is especially true when it comes to lifting. I'm pretty knowledgeable and I've still given solid, well-meaning advice that ended up being bad advice when further information was revealed.3 -
tomaattikastike wrote: »I am surprised at how many people would see receiving polite advice as offensive. Why is that - can you not see it as well-meaning advice? If you know better (which, in many cases, you might), then you can simply tell them that, too. Clearly, it would be wrong to interrupt somebody's workout, or to persist when they signal that they don't want to hear from you, but if someone approached me politely, especially about something I might not be able to recognise myself, I would be grateful, or at least assume they meant well.
I try to follow this, and wish it were more mainstream: http://lesswrong.com/lw/jis/tell_culture/
Depends on who it's coming from. Over the years I've made friends and/or good acquaintances at the gym...if one of them were to ask me what I was doing with some particular lift or offer some pointers on something and I knew them and knew their background, etc I wouldn't have any issue...stuff like that comes up in conversation all of the time.
A random stranger critiquing what I'm doing without knowing what I'm doing and without me knowing them from Adam kinda goes against gym etiquette.3 -
It is a tough call. I like to talk.....I can talk to anyone anywhere. But, I do not talk a lot in the gym.
I have worked out with a lot of dudes and I have worked out with some chicks. Some of the chicks were prepping for their competitions. I take advice from guys just like I take advice from chicks. And, to be honest, I usually ask them "Hey, do you see anything that I might be doing wrong or could possibly be doing differently?" so I am essentially asking. And some of the chicks with whom I have "worked in" some sets (at the squat rack or with dead lifts) are pretty freaking strong and have very awesome physiques. They - like the dudes - have put in a lot of hard work.
I also take the advice with a grain of salt....even when I am asking for it.....as we are all different. Bio-mechanically I might be a bit different so my squat is going to "look" wrong to the untrained eye. Anyway, just because people give you advice that does not demand that you follow it.
So, would I give advice? Tough call. Am I qualified to be doing that? My ego would love to tell me "yes" but I am smart enough to know that I am not. So, I usually do not.
There was one time when there was a young man at the gym - he had to be 19 or 20 - and he was doing deadlifts and squats and barbell rows. If you were making a video on how not to do these exercises, you would have stuck gold with this young man. I engaged in conversation with him (he kept on watching me....not in a creepy way....plus, I am 50....I ain't scared of a 19yo ) and we started talking and eventually the conversation was about training. Anyway, I asked him if he felt funny after he worked out and long story short I was able to have a conversation with him in such a way that I helped him to see the need for him to get a trainer to show him form. I casually shared with him how my form was really bad and how I hurt myself and what a PITA it was and and and. He was having the same 'funny feelings' that I was in the lower back area......that resonated with him.
Anyway, not always an easy call. But with someone like him (and, to be honest, like me when I started with squats and dead lifts) it is easier. Dude is clearly going to hurt himself once he adds just 'that little bit extra' weight. Like I did.
But, taking advice from a chick - it is all the same to me. I take it all with a grain of salt.
Do I think that she is flirting with me? Of course, I don't think that she is....I know that she is! LOL! Now, does anyone wonder why my profile does not have a pic? Well, let's just say that I have a face for radio! LOL!1 -
I just don't see that going over well.
lol . . . actually, i have had a few of the younger, lost kids ask me how i 'do' x or y, probably because of that same mom effect.
OP, i think it does come down to minding your own business. and yes, if someoene is really worrying me i do mention it sometimes to one of the staff. can do that because they're all trainers at the space taht i use, and i've been around long enough to see them working with clients and evesdrop on them.
i will say though that now and then i've had someone point something out to me that i had no idea i was doing/had no idea was not right. so a secondary issue i've discovered with this whole 'get involved' thing is that it's just not especially useful either. you can tell someone they're doing it wrong, but ime the time and attention needed to build towards getting it right is more than most people are comfortable investing even supposing they know their stuff well.
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To all advice can be useful but always consider the source. As a professional trainer and gym manager for over 20 yrs I’ve seen and heard a lot some good some not. Male or female shouldn’t matter but some basic knowledge and sound habits make good. People shouldn’t be afraid to help other people but the people receiving the help need to make sure it fits into their plan.0
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Honestly, I'd be a little embarrassed probably but I'd heed your advice. I'm teaching my boys now, they want to lift heavy but they have poor form. I preach form is of utmost importance, drop doan on weight if that's what it takes.0
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