Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    edited December 2017
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    mph323 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    I've been following the thread, sort of going back and forth on whether I'm ready to post. I think it's time, I probably need a little help.

    I've been losing weight slowly but steadily for a little more than 18 months, like I'm down to about a lb. a month now. I've lost about 45 lbs and weigh between 106 and 108 (5'3", 67 yrs old female). I know I need to stop and maintain, and I can't. My head wants me to weigh 105 lbs, and it also wants me to drop to 104 so maintenance won't go over 105. It's not an eating disorder thing, it's a self image (and I think control) issue.

    I keep saying I'm taking a maintenance break during Dec., and I keep panicking when I gain anything a day after eating more than my weight loss calories (which is typical because I usually eat more carbs and carry a little more water). I had no problems with even big fluctuations while in weight loss mode, but I'm over-reacting now and cutting calories until I get back to 106 where apparently my head thinks it's OK to sit for a month. Then my head thinks we're going to lose that last couple of lbs. and live happily ever after underweight.

    I think I'm really worried about losing control once I'm no longer in active weight loss mode. I've never set a weight goal before, got to the goal and increased calories just enough to stay there. It's always been weight loss mode with no goal until something changes in my life and I abandon all hope and eat my way back up. I REALLY don't want that to happen this time.

    I've never tried actually talking out my concerns about how to manage maintenance, and never really considered that I might have some issues with body image and possibly control issues. Thank you all for providing a safe place to talk about these things.

    Ah, well, as you will have seen, my head decided to go for the lower weight, because I found it so much easier with utilising refeeds to actually stick to a deficit. But even at the start of the diet break that wasn't, I was already umming and ahhing about whether I really needed to lose the extra kg. Then late luteal increased bmr and eczema flare knocked off a chunk more :D. Obviously I don't know what's going on under the remaining water weight, we'll see in the next few days I guess, but I decided I'm done yesterday. Now, whether that holds is another matter!! Though, I'd really like to not have anymore new bras suddenly be too small a week after buying them. So, done.

    Do you have another goal, such as recomp/strength building, that maybe knowing you need to be at maintenance for will help you stay there?

    I've been doing strength training for about 5 months twice a week with a personal trainer, and have made some progress (yay, slightly visible muscles!). It's slow going because we're working around some injuries (repeated rotator cuff surgeries in my right shoulder, and triceps tendon repair in left elbow after tearing it off in a bike accident last Oct.) I really like the idea of recomp, but I don't have the confidence that I'm going to be able to get to the point where I can lift heavy enough weights to make that happen. It's a goal, for sure, but (excuses, excuses) my head wants me to get rid of the fat draped around my middle before we commit to a recomp. And of course, the point of a recomp is to get rid of the fat draped around my middle...

    Maybe I'll give myself to the end of Dec. to just keep doing what I'm doing. Wherever I am at the beginning of Jan will be my starting maintenance number. Ok, and I could get a bod-pod type body fat estimate, and use that to set a body fat goal and work toward reducing that over the next year with the challenge being to hold my weight constant at the same time. You've got me thinking from a different perspective now, thanks! I've got some time to let this percolate. :)

    You don't have to lift heavy for recomp, just heavy for you, ie work progressively, increasing weights when the current weight gets easy. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but so long as you are doing that, you will build muscle doing that if you are eating at maintenance.

    Hmm didn't realize that. I am lifting progressively, just increasing very slowly (but miraculously injury free) so that's really encouraging.

    Slow is fine too - just takes longer.

    But if potential injury, probably not slower.

    But yes - body has no need to increase muscle until you tap out what you've got for strength, and then continue to over extend (damage) it.

    So if you damage it just a little bit each time in order to protect tendons, you get the slow improvement you are getting.

    But you are working within your limitations. Some have limits and don't do anything within them.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    mph323 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    mph323 wrote: »
    I've been following the thread, sort of going back and forth on whether I'm ready to post. I think it's time, I probably need a little help.

    I've been losing weight slowly but steadily for a little more than 18 months, like I'm down to about a lb. a month now. I've lost about 45 lbs and weigh between 106 and 108 (5'3", 67 yrs old female). I know I need to stop and maintain, and I can't. My head wants me to weigh 105 lbs, and it also wants me to drop to 104 so maintenance won't go over 105. It's not an eating disorder thing, it's a self image (and I think control) issue.

    I keep saying I'm taking a maintenance break during Dec., and I keep panicking when I gain anything a day after eating more than my weight loss calories (which is typical because I usually eat more carbs and carry a little more water). I had no problems with even big fluctuations while in weight loss mode, but I'm over-reacting now and cutting calories until I get back to 106 where apparently my head thinks it's OK to sit for a month. Then my head thinks we're going to lose that last couple of lbs. and live happily ever after underweight.

    I think I'm really worried about losing control once I'm no longer in active weight loss mode. I've never set a weight goal before, got to the goal and increased calories just enough to stay there. It's always been weight loss mode with no goal until something changes in my life and I abandon all hope and eat my way back up. I REALLY don't want that to happen this time.

    I've never tried actually talking out my concerns about how to manage maintenance, and never really considered that I might have some issues with body image and possibly control issues. Thank you all for providing a safe place to talk about these things.

    Ah, well, as you will have seen, my head decided to go for the lower weight, because I found it so much easier with utilising refeeds to actually stick to a deficit. But even at the start of the diet break that wasn't, I was already umming and ahhing about whether I really needed to lose the extra kg. Then late luteal increased bmr and eczema flare knocked off a chunk more :D. Obviously I don't know what's going on under the remaining water weight, we'll see in the next few days I guess, but I decided I'm done yesterday. Now, whether that holds is another matter!! Though, I'd really like to not have anymore new bras suddenly be too small a week after buying them. So, done.

    Do you have another goal, such as recomp/strength building, that maybe knowing you need to be at maintenance for will help you stay there?

    I've been doing strength training for about 5 months twice a week with a personal trainer, and have made some progress (yay, slightly visible muscles!). It's slow going because we're working around some injuries (repeated rotator cuff surgeries in my right shoulder, and triceps tendon repair in left elbow after tearing it off in a bike accident last Oct.) I really like the idea of recomp, but I don't have the confidence that I'm going to be able to get to the point where I can lift heavy enough weights to make that happen. It's a goal, for sure, but (excuses, excuses) my head wants me to get rid of the fat draped around my middle before we commit to a recomp. And of course, the point of a recomp is to get rid of the fat draped around my middle...

    Maybe I'll give myself to the end of Dec. to just keep doing what I'm doing. Wherever I am at the beginning of Jan will be my starting maintenance number. Ok, and I could get a bod-pod type body fat estimate, and use that to set a body fat goal and work toward reducing that over the next year with the challenge being to hold my weight constant at the same time. You've got me thinking from a different perspective now, thanks! I've got some time to let this percolate. :)

    Since I'm so fatigued right now, I ordered a book for bodyweight work. The guy who wrote You Are Your Own Gym wrote a book for women called Body By You and I just got it yesterday.

    I'm older like you are, and the progressions in it seem very doable and manageable and something I can handle while the fatigue is kicking my butt. He has recommendations for kicking each exercise up and down a notch.

    So, there you go. You could give that whole thing a go. Recomp would be slower than heavy weights, but you would still be doing some resistance work.
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    My Mario is MIA. I noticed he was limping badly late this morning, attempted inspection for injury but suspect his arthritis has flared suddenly and dramatically, rang vet to see if I could get him in today (couldn't), went to get cat to give pain meds, and he evaded capture, clambered over the fence, and hasn't been since. He will be curled up somewhere, but he is in pain, and I'd like him home where I can a) give him pain meds, and b) keep an eye on him. I've searched along the reserve strip behind my place, called and called.

    'Come home Mario' vibes would be appreciated.

    Come home Mario!
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
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    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Muzzie is home :) Have shot him full of pain meds. Vet appointment late tomorrow morning.

    Phew!
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    Woosh for me too, 200g above start of pred, which is lower than last weight recorded in Fitbit/Trendweight, so in it goes :) Measurements say there's still a wee bit of water to come off.

    And guess what dork just let her cat escape the house? Her cat that she just gave a shot of bupredyne (painkiller, fairly sedating) to? Sigh. He is sitting over in the reserve watching for bunnies. If I try to get him he will run. Hopefully he will wander back shortly. Dork (me and him). I had had him in his carrier overnight to keep him off his sore leg, but let him out so he could go potty and have breakfast. Then he managed to slip past me as I went out to say hi to the tiny, tiny bit of moisture that fell from the sky.
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,565 Member
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    Cats can be so zen.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...

  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    Now we just have to hope he wanders back on his own before it's time for his appointment! He has four hours, so should be fine, unless he falls asleep somewhere :\
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    You can also see from this pic a) how damn dry it is (it 'rained' for about 2 seconds shortly after I got up), and b) why I am fighting a losing battle with grass pollen.

    Planning to strength train today. Feeling pretty good despite being short on sleep again (I felt bad about having to put Muz in his carrier for the night, so stayed up late with him). I also want to reorganise my bedroom and my lounge furniture, which is strength training in itself - bedstead is cast iron, and lounge suite is vintage insanely heavy, um, how am I gonna do that...(chairs have castors, couch does not, and it's old style converts to bed).

    Oooh! Raining again!!
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As much as I hate him bringing in the poor, dead, baby bunnies, I do love watching him hunt. He will just sit there, so patient and still, at dusk and dawn. Waiting...

    At least he dispatches of them properly.. Coco is an expert mouse "catcher", but lets them go when she gets bored :rage: Absolutely not good for someone like me with a mouse phobia!!! Her cat flap has been locked lately as if she brings one more live thing in I'm gonna have a frickan heart attack!!!

    I have had a couple of live ones, who have been released, but for the most part they are done for before I see them. He's not interested in the adults, obviously too quick for him. There was one not 20 metres from him, munching on grass, while he was out there this morning.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.

    Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.

    Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.

    Oh Lordy, maybe invest in some earplugs so the caterwauling wont do your head in :worried:
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bloody cat. Re-booked for tomorrow. Once he's in, he is staying in, which will be awesome fun, because no open windows. Though I may just confine him to the laundry.

    Strength training in the form of bedroom reorganisation in progress.

    Oh Lordy, maybe invest in some earplugs so the caterwauling wont do your head in :worried:

    Luckily I have many. Advantages of working on a roading project! And Mario is a howler. And a brat.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
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    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    I was down another .2 pounds this morning, which while it could be a fluctuation... I know my body patterns from prior whoosh patterns. This is part of the full whoosh.

    Anyway, today was a refeed day and I it came just in time because the hungries hit. I was considering starting refeed yesterday and just wasn't hungry, but am wondering for next week, considering how hungry I was today, if it might be better to time my refeed pre-emptively and just do it no matter what my body is telling me.

    I keep waiting for what Nony mentioned about these refeeds no longer feeling uncomfortably full to happen. That hasn't started yet.

    I'm really not getting this, because you know, this is the same chick who spent the past year having a problem with disinhibited binge-like behavior and who had grown quite accustomed to feeling uncomfortably full.

    Now, here I am... 7 weeks? 8 weeks? I've lost count without a binge and I don't like that feeling any more.

    Weird. And interesting.

    I think I just got a little better at not leaving myself having to eat stupidly big meals, and if I did, pacing them. Like pizza is perfect, because all the cals, but not actually that much volume. I can munch through one of my pizzas no problems. But totally hear you on going from the 'omg eat all the food!!' to 'oh dear god, more??'. It is indeed weird.

    Part of yours is very possibly that your appetite is just so punk atm though. The days I was feeling really wretched the last couple of weeks were only made possible by shakes. If I'd had to eat those calories in solid food, I don't think I could have.

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