Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy!
Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
It depends on what you set your deficit to. There are multiple ways to create a deficit and it doesn't need to be a large deficit. Either refer to the revised opening post or you can see my refresher on page 157 or 158 in creating a minimal deficit that allows for weight loss, but enough calories to not feel deprived. The main point is to have an average deficit over the week, so if some maintenance days are thrown in during the week to get there, you're fine.
WOW! I just went back and read it! Obviously I did need to go back and read the 900+ comments.
I get in my mind that I have this plan. "First 10% done before Christmas ... check! Now on to the next 10% by April, and so on until I've lost the weight and then all will be fine." And it's all going to fit into this little box where my body, mind, and determination is going to go exactly as planned, but when I feel my plan slipping away, I start panicking. When I found you all's thread on diet breaks, I was so happy. Something that I can control. I am a self proclaimed control freak.
Perhaps my body just needs to be at a minimal deficit for a spell before getting into a hard deficit right away. I like what that guy said about unless you are planning on dying right away, you got your whole life.3 -
VintageFeline wrote: »900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
I am in a constant battle with compliance these days but I just keep going. Keep logging, no matter what. Whilst I may not always be fully compliant I am consistent and that habit means I have always continued to lose outside of known breaks/gaining periods albeit slowly. Sometimes I'm fully compliant, other weeks a bit compliant, other weeks just end up at maintenance but the key for me is I am never regressing, always moving forward and that's all I can ask for (even if I do want to give myself a royal shake at times!).
Always moving forward. Good advise. Thank you.1 -
No one designed a training programme for Mario overnight??0
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900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
It depends on what you set your deficit to. There are multiple ways to create a deficit and it doesn't need to be a large deficit. Either refer to the revised opening post or you can see my refresher on page 157 or 158 in creating a minimal deficit that allows for weight loss, but enough calories to not feel deprived. The main point is to have an average deficit over the week, so if some maintenance days are thrown in during the week to get there, you're fine.
WOW! I just went back and read it! Obviously I did need to go back and read the 900+ comments.
I get in my mind that I have this plan. "First 10% done before Christmas ... check! Now on to the next 10% by April, and so on until I've lost the weight and then all will be fine." And it's all going to fit into this little box where my body, mind, and determination is going to go exactly as planned, but when I feel my plan slipping away, I start panicking. When I found you all's thread on diet breaks, I was so happy. Something that I can control. I am a self proclaimed control freak.
Perhaps my body just needs to be at a minimal deficit for a spell before getting into a hard deficit right away. I like what that guy said about unless you are planning on dying right away, you got your whole life.
Yep, that would be me who said that. It falls in line with Aadam's email that crash diets can work, however, if you're trying to learn long-term sustainability, then fast results don't do 3/5ths of jack for training someone to manage their habits in the long run.
In context, the initial phase of fat loss is actually quite fast. The more body fat you carry, the more can be lost at first. It's when you get to leaner levels of body fat when it starts to slow down, which is the deciding factor for many to either continue the process or stop, and in the worst case scenario believe that they have successfully achieved a goal and end up undoing all of their hard work.
That last part is what we want to avoid. So while fat loss doesn't have to be agonizingly slow, it is going to be longer than you want it to be. And in that longer time, you want to be able to take it as a learning process. It took years to learn how to exceed an ideal body fat, and it will take years to reverse the process...and the rest of your life to maintain that reversal.
Everyone has control over their choices. Just know what you are and aren't able to control. It's exceedingly difficult to manipulate life to your will.. and I use that term loosely because it's impossible. Therefore, it's better to focus on manipulating choices that benefit you. You don't need to be militant; just be mindful.8 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »No one designed a training programme for Mario overnight??
Lol have you seen Snickers? He denies the existence of energy balance. He's got the build of a powerlifter. Mario seems to be auto-regulating his activity much better :P3 -
So tomorrow may be a very expensive trip to find out that I was right that my cat was having an adverse reaction to his thyroid meds, cos turns out that they can, in rare cases, cause an elevation in liver enzymes and liver damage. So yeah, good chance he does have hepatitis, caused by the medication. Something my vet should have been aware of, or at least looked into last week when his blood tests showed elevated ALT.
Still taking him to the specialist, because I would never forgive myself if I delayed and it is lymphoma, but you can bet I'm going to be pissed if this was the meds and could have been dealt with without going to the vet school (cos $1500 just for tomorrow). And he will still need treatment to settle things down and reverse the liver damage.5 -
900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
It depends on what you set your deficit to. There are multiple ways to create a deficit and it doesn't need to be a large deficit. Either refer to the revised opening post or you can see my refresher on page 157 or 158 in creating a minimal deficit that allows for weight loss, but enough calories to not feel deprived. The main point is to have an average deficit over the week, so if some maintenance days are thrown in during the week to get there, you're fine.
WOW! I just went back and read it! Obviously I did need to go back and read the 900+ comments.
I get in my mind that I have this plan. "First 10% done before Christmas ... check! Now on to the next 10% by April, and so on until I've lost the weight and then all will be fine." And it's all going to fit into this little box where my body, mind, and determination is going to go exactly as planned, but when I feel my plan slipping away, I start panicking. When I found you all's thread on diet breaks, I was so happy. Something that I can control. I am a self proclaimed control freak.
Perhaps my body just needs to be at a minimal deficit for a spell before getting into a hard deficit right away. I like what that guy said about unless you are planning on dying right away, you got your whole life.
Yep, that would be me who said that. It falls in line with Aadam's email that crash diets can work, however, if you're trying to learn long-term sustainability, then fast results don't do 3/5ths of jack for training someone to manage their habits in the long run.
In context, the initial phase of fat loss is actually quite fast. The more body fat you carry, the more can be lost at first. It's when you get to leaner levels of body fat when it starts to slow down, which is the deciding factor for many to either continue the process or stop, and in the worst case scenario believe that they have successfully achieved a goal and end up undoing all of their hard work.
That last part is what we want to avoid. So while fat loss doesn't have to be agonizingly slow, it is going to be longer than you want it to be. And in that longer time, you want to be able to take it as a learning process. It took years to learn how to exceed an ideal body fat, and it will take years to reverse the process...and the rest of your life to maintain that reversal.
Everyone has control over their choices. Just know what you are and aren't able to control. It's exceedingly difficult to manipulate life to your will.. and I use that term loosely because it's impossible. Therefore, it's better to focus on manipulating choices that benefit you. You don't need to be militant; just be mindful.
I think my struggle with consistent compliance has actually been a blessing. I do pretty well maintaining naturally now, with being mindful and keeping hold of the reins. I can't be sure that would have happened had I got to goal in 18 months (which even for some seems like an absolute age, never mind the 3 years I'm about to hit and still not there!).
And then there's the greater lean mass retention, of which I am still fairly sure I have the upper end of average thanks to my background (dance and gymnastics) and strength training from day 1.
Still would like to get to goal at some point in the near future though, let's be real.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »No one designed a training programme for Mario overnight??
Here you go!
A Kitten's Guide to Exercise. 5 -
@Nony_Mouse I hope that whatever is going on with your kitty is easily (if not inexpensively) solved. Big hugs.3
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@Nony_Mouse I hope that whatever is going on with your kitty is easily (if not inexpensively) solved. Big hugs.
Thanks @Maxxitt. I will of course be ecstatic if it is a med reaction, given that I've spent the past week thinking my cat may have cancer. But exceedingly pissed that something that should have been considered as a cause, wasn't.5 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse I hope that whatever is going on with your kitty is easily (if not inexpensively) solved. Big hugs.
Thanks @Maxxitt. I will of course be ecstatic if it is a med reaction, given that I've spent the past week thinking my cat may have cancer. But exceedingly pissed that something that should have been considered as a cause, wasn't.
I’d be pretty pissed too - but I’ll hope for that outcome for you anyhow!
This morning I was standing by the sink finishing my coffee when the kitten decided to use me as an aid to jump on top of the cabinets. I was a little surprised, as she can generally get up there on her own, but didn’t think much of it. I thought a lot more of it when she decided to use me as an aid to get *down*, which was much less controlled. My back looks like I was mauled by a tiny panther.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
I am in a constant battle with compliance these days but I just keep going. Keep logging, no matter what. Whilst I may not always be fully compliant I am consistent and that habit means I have always continued to lose outside of known breaks/gaining periods albeit slowly. Sometimes I'm fully compliant, other weeks a bit compliant, other weeks just end up at maintenance but the key for me is I am never regressing, always moving forward and that's all I can ask for (even if I do want to give myself a royal shake at times!).
This is me. Except I log sometimes in my head on the maintenance days and close enough is good enough on them. I'm usually eating very simple to track food on those days (cottage cheese, yogurt, rice cakes, cereal).
But I keep plugging away.7 -
900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
I took pretty much the same break you did and I actually have had also a bit of trouble getting down to my normal weekday deficit, although my week average is lower than before my break, which is of course what really matters. This was my first break, though, so I can’t offer any tips, just commiseration. I’m impatient to get back to feeling like I’ve got my routine down, but I know I’m retaining not just from the diet break but from upping my workouts right around the same time. Nothing to do but be patient, I suppose!
On a related note, I am really loving the Fitness Blender workouts. I did about a week and a half of their body weight program then put it partially on hold while I spent several days cracking the ice in front of my house. I was about to start back up when I got kind of panicked by the fact that the next couple of workouts were much longer than I’m used to and restarted the program. That lasted exactly a day until I decided it would be far more fun to make my own schedule - spreadsheets away!
Santa hasn’t delivered on the Power Blocks yet, but maybe there will be some on sale in February.3 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »@Nony_Mouse I hope that whatever is going on with your kitty is easily (if not inexpensively) solved. Big hugs.
Thanks @Maxxitt. I will of course be ecstatic if it is a med reaction, given that I've spent the past week thinking my cat may have cancer. But exceedingly pissed that something that should have been considered as a cause, wasn't.
I’d be pretty pissed too - but I’ll hope for that outcome for you anyhow!
This morning I was standing by the sink finishing my coffee when the kitten decided to use me as an aid to jump on top of the cabinets. I was a little surprised, as she can generally get up there on her own, but didn’t think much of it. I thought a lot more of it when she decided to use me as an aid to get *down*, which was much less controlled. My back looks like I was mauled by a tiny panther.
We will be changing vets if it does end up being that. Not considering it, when liver damage is right there under adverse reactions in the manufacturer's info pamphlet, and when I kept saying the meds were clearly at least partially responsible for his inappetence, is not something I'm going to let slide. Had I done a quick search on Vidalta and elevated ALT a week ago, like I should have, when I got the initial blood test results I'd have known. But my vet also should have checked that. Kind of what I pay her for.
Sorry about tiny panther @MegaMooseEsq. I have had many, may such injuries. I would tell you they grow out of it, but they don't.4 -
Today was a little better.
I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.
So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.
Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.11 -
@heybales Yes, and yes! How did you know that?
I was born with flat feet and had them operated on (tendons shortened?) when I was 5. It made it slightly painful to walk in a relaxed way so I always had to purposefully raise my arch higher. It's better and I can run now I wear orthotics.
I'm self-diagnosed with Reynaud's syndrome, and get multicoloured hands, and used to get chill blains on my feet at school.
Mind you, my Mum has terrible varicose veins, and both my sisters, and they've all had theirs operated on. Maybe I need mine done? Oddly, it's just my one leg.
My dad had and I have great blood flow in legs, which it appears you would have, but then less than normal to the feet.
Not sure if achilles is average or not, healing from injury seemed rather quick in comparison to what I read for others, so perhaps better there.
But then again a normal cold weather run better start with warm calves or the achilles will be awful later on. I've been lucky the Nov marathon/half I like to do starts through business park and I can park my car at about 2 miles, and throw excess clothes in then.
Just curious if same for you, nothing indicated it might be the case.
Never heard of chillblains before, wow. If I had a propensity for it, I'd sure get it a lot.
And to the topic ..... uh ..... I'm sure a refeed week ..... helps ..... I got nothing.
@heybales LOL, I'm in maintenance, so I'm refeeding every meal!
I've had niggles in my Achilles that are gone the next day. Maybe that's the circulation thing.
Actually, I've been in a very minor deficit for a couple of weeks. Though you did say it was likely my 2 kg gain in 2017 was due to muscle gain from mega running and fitness improvements, my brain is borked and can't deal with being over my goal range, so I'm nearly comfortably under.3 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »@nexangelus - My condolences regarding Shadow. Never easy losing a pet.
Been on a diet break for fifteen days. Ending it tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who provided advice and insights into this process.
Started at 203.5 - spiked up to 216 - settled in at 214 +/- 2. Calorie target was 2050. Got at least 100 grams of carbs most days. Was nice to eat more carbs for a few days.
Should I reset to my former calorie target (1550) ? Or a little higher? Any other tips for restarting a weight loss strategy?
Probably a good time to insert the new reminder for 2018...
Use your new settled weight as your baseline calculation for creating the deficit. Rough rmr baseline is going to be current bw x 10. Maintenance is around a multiplier of 14-15.
If you are active at all, the multiplier is anywhere between 11-13 to create your deficit.
If you are sedentary to the point of barely getting any extra movement, you can actually go down to an 8-9 multiplier, which is already considered aggressive, but if you're ~214, this translates to 1712kcal at the lowest (using 8 as a multiplier). Not sustainable long term.
The ideal is to eat as many calories as you can that allows for weight loss
The more aggressive the cut, the shorter the dieting period becomes. And the leaner you are, it becomes exponentially shorter. Protein becomes your absolute priority macro and should be more than you think. There's an inverse relationship with total energy and protein. More deficit = more protein needed.
If you're still way above a target bf%, say >25% for men, >30% bf for women, then your dieting period of anywhere between 6-12 weeks should include a couple of days at or around maintenance; eg: deficit day > deficit day > maintenance day > deficit > deficit > maintenance day > deficit day ... or however you choose to intersperse it. No refeeds necessary since you have more than enough stored energy to support a consistent deficit.
The less aggressive the cut (the ideal), the longer the dieting period can be done, with some going well into 16-24 weeks for severely overweight individuals, but no matter what, there's going to be a diet break happening at the end of the diet period just to give your body some time to adjust to its new lower body weight. If you need to do another stint of dieting, you choose your new deficit based on your new lower body weight.
-REMINDER INSERT-
I don't think I can stress enough that maintenance, deficits, and surpluses are going to be determined at the body weight you are currently at the time of planning, meaning it's never a static number. Refer to the revised opening post.
Choose a dieting strategy that works for you and stick to it for the duration of the dieting period. If at any time during the dieting period you feel like you are dragging *kitten* through a pile of *kitten*, then end the diet and take the break and reassess what went wrong then readjust for the next round of dieting. Fat loss is a LONG game. And permanent fat loss is LOOONG.. like life long, so unless you're planning to die in the next few years, don't rush it and don't white knuckle your way through extreme methods.
The caveat is there will always be a period of suck when dieting; i.e. some hunger, some reduced energy status, etc. but that is completely normal. It's when the period of suck becomes a period of "wtf am I even doing I hate everyone's unborn children" is when it's too far.
Your job is to mitigate as much suck as possible by creating an average long term deficit, so if including some maintenance days every so often helps you achieve a weekly deficit, you're good.
---
And I'll supplement this with a timely email I just received from my international spirit manimal, Aadam Ali:
A lot of this has to do with a thing called the set point theory.
The set point theory of bodyweight regulation says that we all come with an inherent 'set point'. And when we get too far away from our personal set point –whether this be through weight loss or weight gain – the body will do everything it can to get us back to normal. You see the set point theory in action when people lose huge amounts of fat and gain it back shortly after. But, it isn't all doom and gloom because...
There's this other thing called the settling point.
The settling point is a counter-theory to the set point theory and says that you can change your set point if you change your behaviours and environment. And it's something I've seen in clients and even experienced myself. It's also the reason why I'm now able to maintain above-average levels of body fat year 'round without suffering.
And no, this isn't where I cut off the post and say, "FIND OUT MY LIFE-LONG EFFORTLESS SIX PACK SECRETS FOR 6 MONTHLY INSTALMENTS OF JUST 666 CASH MONIES!" There isn't a secret – surprise. And if there were it most definitely would not be effortless. And it would also require years of consistency and patience.
Because the body you want is a long game.
I speak to people all the time about their goals and the one recurring theme is people wanting to lose fat and maintain a lean physique year 'round, forever. And while it's an ardent belief of mine that most people can achieve this goal – it's not going to happen as quickly as people want it to. Meaning: it's probably going to take years.
For a few reasons.
1. Muscle growth takes time: The more muscle you have on your frame, the better you're going to look, but also, the leaner you will look at the same body fat %. This means you won't have to diet as hard and eventually you may not need to diet at all.
2. Habits take time: In the opening sequence of the Netflix series, Ozark, the protagonist says: "Money is, at its essence, that measure of a man's choices." And it's no different for your physique – you don't have the body you want right now because your choices aren't in alignment with your goal. And, over time, these choices have become ingrained as bad habits.
People who have lost weight and managed to keep it off exhibit certain habits –amongst these, consistent exercise; calorie-control and tracking; and setting up their environment for success.
Changing your habits takes time, and the only way to change them is to start changing the choices you make.
3. Slow and steady fat loss: While strategic 'crash diets' can work, they won't work for most people because they don't allow for you to learn and ingrain the habits you need to maintain the loss in the long run.
Now, this is anecdote (and I'd argue experience having worked with hundreds of different people, and by extension, hundreds of different bodies), but a 'phasic' approach to dieting seems to work excellently for helping people acclimate to a new level of body fat. I've written about the approach in detail here, but here's a TL;DR:
- Lose a certain amount of fat and then stop dieting and maintain your new lower weight and body fat % for a certain period of time. Once you're comfortable, resume dieting to lose more fat. Repeat this process as many times as needed until you hit your goal.
People don't want to hear talk of 'slow and steady' because we're living in a culture of instant gratification and "I want it now". But your body doesn't care about what you want and the more you try to rush fat loss, the harder it will become.
4. Because life: Chances are that if you're reading this you're not a bodybuilder, meaning – you can't, or don't want to, make this fitness thing you're life.
Which means that life will happen. You'll fall off track here and there, you may not go to the gym for a few weeks, your diet will go out the window as life stress increases. This is absolutely fine and to be expected. But what it also means is that your goal is going to take just that longer to achieve.
5. Consistency, consistency, consistency > intensity: I'm going to end on this point because I believe it to be the most important.
I've been training for more than a decade and in that time frame I can count the numbers of days I've taken off on one hand (not including injuries or sickness). Has every training session been perfect? No. Has my diet been spot on every day? No. But the biggest differentiator, despite things not being perfect, was that I kept going – day after day; week after week; month after month; and year after year.
Everything counts. And everything adds up. Aim for consistency over intensity (or perfection).
Time to quote the Book of the Dead Awesome by @anubis609 again.5 -
collectingblues wrote: »Today was a little better.
I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.
So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.
Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.
Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?0 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
I took pretty much the same break you did and I actually have had also a bit of trouble getting down to my normal weekday deficit, although my week average is lower than before my break, which is of course what really matters. This was my first break, though, so I can’t offer any tips, just commiseration. I’m impatient to get back to feeling like I’ve got my routine down, but I know I’m retaining not just from the diet break but from upping my workouts right around the same time. Nothing to do but be patient, I suppose!
On a related note, I am really loving the Fitness Blender workouts. I did about a week and a half of their body weight program then put it partially on hold while I spent several days cracking the ice in front of my house. I was about to start back up when I got kind of panicked by the fact that the next couple of workouts were much longer than I’m used to and restarted the program. That lasted exactly a day until I decided it would be far more fun to make my own schedule - spreadsheets away!
Santa hasn’t delivered on the Power Blocks yet, but maybe there will be some on sale in February.
We will be commiseration buddies!0 -
collectingblues wrote: »Today was a little better.
I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.
So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.
Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.
Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?
I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.2 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
I took pretty much the same break you did and I actually have had also a bit of trouble getting down to my normal weekday deficit, although my week average is lower than before my break, which is of course what really matters. This was my first break, though, so I can’t offer any tips, just commiseration. I’m impatient to get back to feeling like I’ve got my routine down, but I know I’m retaining not just from the diet break but from upping my workouts right around the same time. Nothing to do but be patient, I suppose!
On a related note, I am really loving the Fitness Blender workouts. I did about a week and a half of their body weight program then put it partially on hold while I spent several days cracking the ice in front of my house. I was about to start back up when I got kind of panicked by the fact that the next couple of workouts were much longer than I’m used to and restarted the program. That lasted exactly a day until I decided it would be far more fun to make my own schedule - spreadsheets away!
Santa hasn’t delivered on the Power Blocks yet, but maybe there will be some on sale in February.
Me three, as to the holiday diet break. It's been -- and is being -- a real fight to stay within calories, and I don't always succeed. I get seriously hungry around midday some days, and my regular lunches just don't seem to cut it. And I'm craving more carbs -- semi-sweet, peanut-buttery carbs. I know I can get on top of this, and for a change I don't feel as though I'm circling the drain with my weight loss, but I miss my good deficit habits.3 -
900+ comments since I last checked in with you all. You guys have been busy! Honestly, I probably will never have time to go back and read them, so forgive if I ask a question that has already been asked.
I took a Holiday Diet Break from Dec 22 - Jan 1st. I was scared to weigh in on Jan 2nd, but whew, no gain. I was exactly the same as Dec 22nd. Since then it has taken me until Sunday(1/7) to actually eat at or under my daily allotted deficit. I had no problem on my first diet break getting right back to it.
Has anyone else had a hard time getting back into the deficit? Any pointers?
It depends on what you set your deficit to. There are multiple ways to create a deficit and it doesn't need to be a large deficit. Either refer to the revised opening post or you can see my refresher on page 157 or 158 in creating a minimal deficit that allows for weight loss, but enough calories to not feel deprived. The main point is to have an average deficit over the week, so if some maintenance days are thrown in during the week to get there, you're fine.
WOW! I just went back and read it! Obviously I did need to go back and read the 900+ comments.
I get in my mind that I have this plan. "First 10% done before Christmas ... check! Now on to the next 10% by April, and so on until I've lost the weight and then all will be fine." And it's all going to fit into this little box where my body, mind, and determination is going to go exactly as planned, but when I feel my plan slipping away, I start panicking. When I found you all's thread on diet breaks, I was so happy. Something that I can control. I am a self proclaimed control freak.
Perhaps my body just needs to be at a minimal deficit for a spell before getting into a hard deficit right away. I like what that guy said about unless you are planning on dying right away, you got your whole life.
Yep, that would be me who said that. It falls in line with Aadam's email that crash diets can work, however, if you're trying to learn long-term sustainability, then fast results don't do 3/5ths of jack for training someone to manage their habits in the long run.
In context, the initial phase of fat loss is actually quite fast. The more body fat you carry, the more can be lost at first. It's when you get to leaner levels of body fat when it starts to slow down, which is the deciding factor for many to either continue the process or stop, and in the worst case scenario believe that they have successfully achieved a goal and end up undoing all of their hard work.
That last part is what we want to avoid. So while fat loss doesn't have to be agonizingly slow, it is going to be longer than you want it to be. And in that longer time, you want to be able to take it as a learning process. It took years to learn how to exceed an ideal body fat, and it will take years to reverse the process...and the rest of your life to maintain that reversal.
Everyone has control over their choices. Just know what you are and aren't able to control. It's exceedingly difficult to manipulate life to your will.. and I use that term loosely because it's impossible. Therefore, it's better to focus on manipulating choices that benefit you. You don't need to be militant; just be mindful.
I think (maybe) a big difference in my two diet breaks was that during my first one, I ate pretty much the same food that I was eating during my deficit, just more of it. Probably 85% health conscious choices. During my Christmas diet break, I ate whatever I saw, which was alot of cakes, pies, candy, cookies, tamales, enchiladas, bread, eggnog, ponche, white russians, and such. I kept within maintenance, for the most part, but the types of food were definitely different than what I allow myself during deficit. I just don't have enough calories to eat those kinds of foods in quantity and get the nutrition that I need in my deficit calories. I have alot to learn about sustainability, but I am working on it. Could those rich foods be what is calling to me now? Could a block in weight loss have more to do with emotional attachments than sheer will-power or body requirements?0 -
Me three, as to the holiday diet break. It's been -- and is being -- a real fight to stay within calories, and I don't always succeed. I get seriously hungry around midday some days, and my regular lunches just don't seem to cut it. And I'm craving more carbs -- semi-sweet, peanut-buttery carbs. I know I can get on top of this, and for a change I don't feel as though I'm circling the drain with my weight loss, but I miss my good deficit habits.
I think (maybe) a big difference in my two diet breaks was that during my first one, I ate pretty much the same food that I was eating during my deficit, just more of it. Probably 85% health conscious choices. During my Christmas diet break, I ate whatever I saw, which was alot of cakes, pies, candy, cookies, tamales, enchiladas, bread, eggnog, ponche, white russians, and such. I kept within maintenance, for the most part, but the types of food were definitely different than what I allow myself during deficit. I just don't have enough calories to eat those kinds of foods in quantity and get the nutrition that I need in my deficit calories. I have alot to learn about sustainability, but I am working on it. Could those rich foods be what is calling to me now? Could a block in weight loss have more to do with emotional attachments than sheer will-power or body requirements?
To both of these sentiments, there's a predominant theme which likely applies to the majority of dieters: there was a habit formed to create and stay within a deficit by eliminating or reducing the intake of hyper-palatable foods; as soon as the holidays came around, that habit was broken with reckless abandonment and now there is difficulty in going back to prior habits.
Hyper-palatable foods are the primary driving force behind increasing rates of weight and fat gain. It's not necessarily the fault of the consumer or the manufacturer, but convenience food is specifically designed and engineered to be damn tasty and drive sales up. Along that same of thought, even the tastiest foods and recipes we cook are usually a mix of salt, sugar, and fat, creating our own versions of hyper-palatability.
This leads to asinine conclusions that "sugar is addictive!" and other forms of horse$hit with over-reaching statements. Sugar in itself is not addictive, but when you combine it with contrasting flavors and consistency, this amalgam of explosive flavors sends a surge of stimuli to your reward center neurotransmitters and all of a sudden foodgasms become the only thing our bodies respond to, and anything less is just unsatisfactory, usually leading to difficulty in trying to cut calories in the long run.
The problem seen in a lot of dieting strategies is that people seem to misinterpret the reduction in hyper-palatability as "completely eliminate them from my diet because will-power alone is weak" or something along those lines. I've said before that it takes years to develop the habit to become overfat. That means you've trained your body to respond excitedly to foods that stimulate pleasure and become averse to foods that don't meet that sensation, for years. It will take years to train your body to respond positively to nutrient dense food as well. And that doesn't mean you have to learn to love eating kale. Srsly fk kale.
All it means is that you need to adjust your food choices to be a bridge between palatable and nutrient dense. Instead of chicken nuggets, fries, and a coke, opt for grilled/rotisserie chicken, roasted potatoes, and a diet coke (and if you have an argument against diet coke because cancer, rat studies don't count). You haven't changed the macro composition, but you've eliminated refined vegetable oil and high fructose corn syrup already with that change.
The point is you can still enjoy food that is both tasty and nutrient dense, just not to the point of "zomfg I need to change my underwear" calorie bombs. And if you want a quick tip to help you naturally cut calories, if you focus solely on whole food protein sources, your body will almost always feel uncomfortably full before you can eat anything else. In itself, protein is self-limiting in that way. Think of what you gorged on over the holidays. How much of it was protein dense? Probably not a lot.
TL;DR - Protein is, was, and always will be a priority macro. Eat a lot of it and eat it first before anything else. Simplify your diet to follow a 70/30 or 80/20 rule: 70/80% nutrient density and 30/20% whatever you like. That keeps you sane while remaining adherent to your goal. Don't do extreme restrictions on any one food group, but don't make crap the majority of your meals either. And it's a learning process. Enjoy the knowledge you give yourself as you find out what foods you like, tolerate, and can't stand. Because fk kale. With a rusty spoon.20 -
Awesome as always @anubis609, especially the fk kale!!
Getting ready to get ready for mine and Muzzie's road trip. Need to have some breakfast, then pack bags for me and him. Lunch, snacks and 'active wear' for me (will wander along the river trail to fill in time while Muz is at the hospital), blankie that I have been sleeping on for Muz to have with him, and fuds I know he will eat in case he wants them after he wakes up/before I collect him or if he needs to stay in. Hoping he won't need to stay, but it will depend on today's tests and what else they need to do to assess liver damage or confirm lymphoma (my money is still on liver damage).9 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Awesome as always @anubis609, especially the fk kale!!
Getting ready to get ready for mine and Muzzie's road trip. Need to have some breakfast, then pack bags for me and him. Lunch, snacks and 'active wear' for me (will wander along the river trail to fill in time while Muz is at the hospital), blankie that I have been sleeping on for Muz to have with him, and fuds I know he will eat in case he wants them after he wakes up/before I collect him or if he needs to stay in. Hoping he won't need to stay, but it will depend on today's tests and what else they need to do to assess liver damage or confirm lymphoma (my money is still on liver damage).
Many thanks! And I wish him well! The lesser of two evils would be medication induced liver damage, and while it sucks, it's a helluva whole lot better than lymphoma. Keep us updated. Here's an unholy union that was created by a fake AI program for his travels
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Yup, it's still not great, but I actually think he's on the road to recovery on his own (with diligent food pushing by me), though still may need some extra help. At least liver damage, if treated early, is fully reversible, what with the liver essentially being a Time Lord (regenerative powers ). In terms of vet screw ups on diagnosis, if it is that (though technically the possible diagnosis of hepatitis is correct, she just didn't connect it to the medication), this is not the worst I've had. One of my cats, a vet completely missed that he had heart disease, despite me taking him back and telling them he was showing signs of respiratory distress (I changed vets immediately). 3
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:::small voice:::::
I like kale. I'll eat it for the rest of you.
I don't like it raw. That massaged kale salad crap can take a flying leap.
With some helpful consultation from our dear Nony (who has access to underwear pics), I have decided to enter near maintenance.
I honestly think one of my biggest issues with compliance is that I'm just not terribly motivated. After joining this post, I lost enough of the extra weight I had gained from binge/restrict over the past year to be fairly happy with how I look. I wouldn't mind losing 5 pounds, and to that end, I'm really just going to leave a small caloric buffer on my days and see what the scale does.
If I don't lose that 5 pounds, it won't be the worst thing in the world. I will be 56 years old this year. My visual estimation of my body fat puts me around 25-26% (which is higher than what I get for caliper and tape measure). I don't think that's half bad for my age, and I'm okay with it. I know it's not lean, but it's good enough.
14 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Today was a little better.
I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.
So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.
Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.
Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?
I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.
That app might actually be a huge help for me - this thread wins again! I just downloaded it and added three month-long goals as a test run. We'll see how not smoking in the morning, brushing my teeth more, and stretching every day works out!4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »:::small voice:::::
I like kale. I'll eat it for the rest of you.
Kale chips taste fine ;-)
And wasn't I the one a while back, @GottaBurnEmAll, who was arguing that your bod is great looking and you don't *need* to lose any fat (sadly, without benefits of calipers or special pics, and just on the basis of a tiny avatar viewed on a phone)!
I now return you to regular programming!
I've referred page 164's hyperpalatable food post to at least one MFPeop! Thanks @anubis609 :-)5 -
MegaMooseEsq wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »Today was a little better.
I found a tracker app that I think may be more helpful than MFP. MFP is good for food logging, but it doesn't exactly praise hitting targets -- so I think a separate habit tracker would be helpful for that, and help with the *consistency* problem. Because I know if I could eat at a certain TDEE-deficit target regularly, that would help stop the binge cycles. And should keep things lower overall, since I won't have the binges interfering. The irony, being, that even on binge days, I was really just eating at maintenance.
So I'll still log food here, and still use the forums, but will use the other app for keeping an eye on whether I'm hitting that target, and not slipping in other behaviors.
Also got a 5-mile run in today. I haven't run that far since the stress fracture, and I also did it in my fastest time ever, so it was good to see that that's still there.
Hi @collectingblues just out of curiosity what's this new habit tracker?
I'm using HabitBull. Admittedly, only two days in, but so far, I like it -- it is completely customizeable, and although you only get five habits with the free version, that's good enough for what I need.
That app might actually be a huge help for me - this thread wins again! I just downloaded it and added three month-long goals as a test run. We'll see how not smoking in the morning, brushing my teeth more, and stretching every day works out!
I've been using HabitBull for a couple of years, and also recommend it! I use it for my bedtime routine right now, and I really find it motivating to keep the streak going.3
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