Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »It's really hard when you have multiple cats who want to graze and one of them is a chub. ......I'll try to think of some ideas for you, but while they're grazing it's nigh on impossible to slim one down. Can s/he be separated while you're at work, with only measured food available? Will s/he engage in interactive play?
I tried separating her but it was a disaster. She cannot stand to be pinned in any way or having a door shut on her. She'd claw to bedroom door and cry until I let her out. She doesn't get along well with one of her brothers and often stays under the bed or up on something. She does take the notion to play with one of the million cat toys I have occasionally or with her sister and sometimes shell go tearing through the house for no apparent reason lol
At feeding time the boys eat first. I've got food bowls scattered throughout the house and I have a scoop so I can portion the amount. Lizzy, my problem child, will usually claim one of the other bowls. Her sister Dot (the cute one lol) waits until everyone else is done then will grab a few bites and go off only to come back later for a few more bites. The youngest is practically nocturnal so I have to make sure one of the bowls has food in it at night for her-night is the only time I've seen her eat.
Lizzie is stressed by her brother. I don't know why they've decided they can't get along; they've been together their entire lives! But he likes to bully her and she's cranky and gets nasty with him. She decided for a while to use the carpet in my last rental house and to stop her I had to keep boxes along the walls and rugs on the carpet. I then bought a house with no carpet but then she started going on the beds. I got around her on that by putting a plastic shower curtain on the bed. I hate to do that often though because her brother Sam likes to burrow under my comforter and I feared he'd suffocate under the curtain, but I can't stop him. He's still here though so I guess my fears are groundless
She's been behaving herself lately, but I'm not going to hold my breath long. Lol2 -
Cats can be more complicated than children! We had our boys for 20 and 21 years, and they got really eccentric as they got older. They were 20 lb cats in their prime (big not fat) van mixes (vampire cats - they had the thin hair swatch from their eyes to their ears, and couldn't go out in the sun). Eventually the dominate cat started putting on the weight, and the other one started losing. It turned out Fatso was eating half his food, then bumping his brother off his bowl and eating most of that, then going back to his own bowl. His brother, not being the brightest bulb, would just sit there looking pathetic instead of going over and eating from the unoccupied bowl. We ended up having to police feeding time twice a day. This is not something that ever came up with our children!
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Cats can be more complicated than children! We had our boys for 20 and 21 years, and they got really eccentric as they got older. They were 20 lb cats in their prime (big not fat) van mixes (vampire cats - they had the thin hair swatch from their eyes to their ears, and couldn't go out in the sun). Eventually the dominate cat started putting on the weight, and the other one started losing. It turned out Fatso was eating half his food, then bumping his brother off his bowl and eating most of that, then going back to his own bowl. His brother, not being the brightest bulb, would just sit there looking pathetic instead of going over and eating from the unoccupied bowl. We ended up having to police feeding time twice a day. This is not something that ever came up with our children!
lol
That's what happens when I put out wet food for the 5 who will eat it. I'll put down the bowls for each cat well away from each other, but they like to play musical bowls - that, and they've just got to see if one of the others got something different than they did!
Sam won't eat wet food at all, so I'll give him some cat treats instead. But as soon as the treats hits the floor, Dot will abandon her bowl to see what Sam has. Little Bit (the youngest) is really skittish, so any kind of noise has her scurrying for cover. Meanwhile, nobody messes with Smokey, the oldest and clear king of the household, but they will sit and stare at him until he leaves his bowl. Charming, my 20 lb California surfer dude (I swear, if that cat were human, he'd the be classic cliche!) is gulping his down and then going to grab Dot's while she's away (he truly is a dumb cat except for when it comes to filling his stomach.....) Lizzie eats hers, then slides down to get whatever anyone else leaves behind - usually wanting to eat all of her portion and Little Bit's too, so I usually have to scoop up the remains to keep her from gorging herself.
All of mine are mixed breeds, but I think the 4 siblings (their momma was a stray I took in) have main coon in them - they are all long hair with the classic "M" pattern on their foreheads, with tufts of hair between their toes and in their ears and the "pants" looking fur on their legs. Charming is huge and it's not fat, and his brother Sam and sister Lizzie aren't far behind him (though Lizzie is definitely fat). Dot is my prissy little girl and the lightest of all of them save Little Bit, who is a petite cat and not very big at all. I think she's part Himalayan - she has the chocolate pointed coat like a Siamese but has really long, fine hair.
Smokey, the old man, is 15 1/2 and still very spry for his age, but he's definitely eccentric. He's always been moody and possessive of me, and the older he gets the worse he gets. He's solid black and I named him Smokey because as a kitten, he looked like a little bear cub, though I should have named him sabertooth or dracula what with the extra long fangs he has that hang out of his mouth at times. He's my curious one, absolutely adores attention, and likes to talk to me. I think he's got some Siamese in him from his temperament and his looks. He's my child even more than the others - that cat has been everywhere with me and we have a really tight bond; it's going to be very hard when he goes!
*grins* just like a momma, aren't I? Here I am going on and on about my kids! lol
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Haha, I refer to Mario as a surfer dude too! Because he's so chill.1
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Cats can be more complicated than children! We had our boys for 20 and 21 years, and they got really eccentric as they got older. They were 20 lb cats in their prime (big not fat) van mixes (vampire cats - they had the thin hair swatch from their eyes to their ears, and couldn't go out in the sun). Eventually the dominate cat started putting on the weight, and the other one started losing. It turned out Fatso was eating half his food, then bumping his brother off his bowl and eating most of that, then going back to his own bowl. His brother, not being the brightest bulb, would just sit there looking pathetic instead of going over and eating from the unoccupied bowl. We ended up having to police feeding time twice a day. This is not something that ever came up with our children!
This is exactly what the kitten has been doing! I give them a scoop of dry once a day in addition to wet in the morning and night (for which they are fed in separate rooms) and almost every time she'll eat maybe half of her bowl, then weasel her way into the bigger cat's bowl. He's such a softie that he just lets her do it, but at least he's smart enough to go eat from her bowl instead.1 -
So, what's the opposite of a whoosh when bulking? A bloat? Lol. Whatever it is, I experienced one yesterday that carried through to today. I was struggling with getting my weight to creep up over the past few weeks and it just jumped up by 2-3 lbs. I don't think I changed much in the way of calories or food quality but it finally moved up. 178.4 as of today. Coincidentally, I was able to hit a clean and jerk PR last night. *kitten* moves mass
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Looking for a little guidance here. Started a weight loss program in March 2107. Lost about 45 pounds in 40 weeks.
I had plateaued around 205 for a month beginning late November. Took a two week diet break around the Christmas holidays. Spiked up to 214 but settled in around 209.
January 4th or thereabouts, I reset my calorie target to 2250 which should be a calorie deficit for me. I am gaining weight again - 215 this morning. I am worried that I am going to gain back a lot of what I had already lost.
Am I just too impatient? How long does it take for a body to adjust to the changes in calorie intake? I have enjoyed the extra calories, but I don't want to undo all my efforts.
My diary is open. Thanks for your input.2 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »Looking for a little guidance here. Started a weight loss program in March 2107. Lost about 45 pounds in 40 weeks.
I had plateaued around 205 for a month beginning late November. Took a two week diet break around the Christmas holidays. Spiked up to 214 but settled in around 209.
January 4th or thereabouts, I reset my calorie target to 2250 which should be a calorie deficit for me. I am gaining weight again - 215 this morning. I am worried that I am going to gain back a lot of what I had already lost.
Am I just too impatient? How long does it take for a body to adjust to the changes in calorie intake? I have enjoyed the extra calories, but I don't want to undo all my efforts.
My diary is open. Thanks for your input.
No see diary. What was your target while you were losing? How close were/are you hitting the targets?1 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »Looking for a little guidance here. Started a weight loss program in March 2107. Lost about 45 pounds in 40 weeks.
I had plateaued around 205 for a month beginning late November. Took a two week diet break around the Christmas holidays. Spiked up to 214 but settled in around 209.
January 4th or thereabouts, I reset my calorie target to 2250 which should be a calorie deficit for me. I am gaining weight again - 215 this morning. I am worried that I am going to gain back a lot of what I had already lost.
Am I just too impatient? How long does it take for a body to adjust to the changes in calorie intake? I have enjoyed the extra calories, but I don't want to undo all my efforts.
My diary is open. Thanks for your input.
No see diary. What was your target while you were losing? How close were/are you hitting the targets?
My bad - diary is open to public now. I'm male - 5'10" - 63. Original target was 175. I'll reevaluate that when I get to 185. I might be good there. Regardless, I'd like to get the loss started again.
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Could it be that you are over-estimating the calories-out side of the equation? The only thing I noticed in your diary that you are eating such a good portion of veggies and such a water-weight swing of several pounds wouldn't be out of the ordinary.alteredstates175 wrote: »alteredstates175 wrote: »Looking for a little guidance here. Started a weight loss program in March 2107. Lost about 45 pounds in 40 weeks.
I had plateaued around 205 for a month beginning late November. Took a two week diet break around the Christmas holidays. Spiked up to 214 but settled in around 209.
January 4th or thereabouts, I reset my calorie target to 2250 which should be a calorie deficit for me. I am gaining weight again - 215 this morning. I am worried that I am going to gain back a lot of what I had already lost.
Am I just too impatient? How long does it take for a body to adjust to the changes in calorie intake? I have enjoyed the extra calories, but I don't want to undo all my efforts.
My diary is open. Thanks for your input.
No see diary. What was your target while you were losing? How close were/are you hitting the targets?
My bad - diary is open to public now. I'm male - 5'10" - 63. Original target was 175. I'll reevaluate that when I get to 185. I might be good there. Regardless, I'd like to get the loss started again.
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So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
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Fiber for guys should be closer to 38 than the figures I see ;-) Your protein now is good, in the past it was a bit low.
Have you considered using a trending weight app or web site... and... it does sound to me like you might not be able to move from 1700 and no losses to 2300 with losses on the basis of a single diet break.
Will try to take this up later... or maybe someone else chime in?... I have to go earn some kibble!1 -
So, what's the opposite of a whoosh when bulking? A bloat? Lol. Whatever it is, I experienced one yesterday that carried through to today. I was struggling with getting my weight to creep up over the past few weeks and it just jumped up by 2-3 lbs. I don't think I changed much in the way of calories or food quality but it finally moved up. 178.4 as of today. Coincidentally, I was able to hit a clean and jerk PR last night. *kitten* moves mass
Yep, more weight certainly shifts the weights...am getting stronger faster now, towards the end of my bulk...am repping with my old one rep maxes and beyond...feels great. Have been dying to get to this point for a while. Trousers a little snug, cos legs and waist seem to have increased a tad in size, but still in the same dress size, eight pounds up (should hope so!). 12 days more of surplus. The urge to eat even more is there some days, especially as I have been training hard. But am sticking to 2740 - 3000 as much as I can. I am up from 167 (bulk start, end October last year) to 175 (weigh in was 174.8 this morning). Feeling groovy.3 -
So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
Exercise is as follows - Two 1-hour weight lifting sessions per week. Two 1-hour circuit training sessions per week. 5-10 miles of walking and/or hiking per week. I log those in Map My Walk and they sync to MFP. I eat some exercise calories but not all - the MMW estimates are ridiculously high when compared to what I see listed by other users. Activity would be considered light - some field work, some desk work - varies day to day.
I based the 2250 calorie target on some numbers that @anubis609 provided - 11 calories per pound of bodyweight - which was 209 when I did the calculation. That should be a deficit according to the calculation.
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Edit - I am tracking weight using the LIbra app. That sparked the concern - the trend line is pointing sharply up.
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alteredstates175 wrote: »So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
Exercise is as follows - Two 1-hour weight lifting sessions per week. Two 1-hour circuit training sessions per week. 5-10 miles of walking and/or hiking per week. I log those in Map My Walk and they sync to MFP. I eat some exercise calories but not all - the MMW estimates are ridiculously high when compared to what I see listed by other users. Activity would be considered light - some field work, some desk work - varies day to day.
I based the 2250 calorie target on some numbers that @anubis609 provided - 11 calories per pound of bodyweight - which was 209 when I did the calculation. That should be a deficit according to the calculation.
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Edit - I am tracking weight using the LIbra app. That sparked the concern - the trend line is pointing sharply up.
What was your cal average on diet break?0 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
Exercise is as follows - Two 1-hour weight lifting sessions per week. Two 1-hour circuit training sessions per week. 5-10 miles of walking and/or hiking per week. I log those in Map My Walk and they sync to MFP. I eat some exercise calories but not all - the MMW estimates are ridiculously high when compared to what I see listed by other users. Activity would be considered light - some field work, some desk work - varies day to day.
I based the 2250 calorie target on some numbers that @anubis609 provided - 11 calories per pound of bodyweight - which was 209 when I did the calculation. That should be a deficit according to the calculation.
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Edit - I am tracking weight using the LIbra app. That sparked the concern - the trend line is pointing sharply up.
Considering the variables at play, you can (and should) adjust your calorie count as needed.
But here is some observation: 2250kcal was a rough estimate based on your activity levels - meaning exercise was already figured into this number for an aggressive cut so eating back some exercise calories are going to move that goal into maintenance.
At the same time, scale weight shouldn't be your only observable metric. It's been just over 2 weeks since resetting your calorie goal to 2250. Post-holiday weight fluctuation can bounce around if 1) you've placed extra physical demand on your body, 2) you're drinking more water to accommodate for your activity levels, 3) you may be pushing too hard and stressing yourself out more than you realize, or 4) you're rounding down in tracking food, not counting small tastes, nibbles, bites, etc., having days that are unaccountable because reasons...
You took a diet break over the Xmas holidays and the mathematical assumption is that you had an average of ~3000kcal to sustain a weight around 214 lbs. Conceivably, it sounds mathematically impossible for you to gain fat if you're in a deficit.
Just to reiterate and re-route some focus:
- Scale weight is not the be all, end all determining factor for fat gain/loss
- What non-scale improvements have you noticed since coming back from the holidays?
- Have you improved performance in the gym (lifting more weight, able to maintain or give more intensity during circuit training, hike longer without as much rest as before)?
- Are your muscles starting to come in a bit more visibly?
- Have you measured limbs, torso, chest, etc?
- Do you have progress pictures that you can compare yourself to?
If any of those are in the positive, you are on the right track, regardless of what the scale says.
Anecdotally, during my summer cut, because of increased training weight for lifts, I fluctuated but trended upward in weight for about 2 months, despite an average deficit. After that, without changing eating or training strategies, my weight started trending down and kept going down over the next 3-4 months.
Fat weight loss is not linear and it never will be. But keep the goal the goal, so if you're just solely looking at scale weight, there are numerous ways to drop that number fast, but not all of them are legitimately good reasons or sustainable.
At 2 weeks, it's a bit soon to start worrying.5 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
Exercise is as follows - Two 1-hour weight lifting sessions per week. Two 1-hour circuit training sessions per week. 5-10 miles of walking and/or hiking per week. I log those in Map My Walk and they sync to MFP. I eat some exercise calories but not all - the MMW estimates are ridiculously high when compared to what I see listed by other users. Activity would be considered light - some field work, some desk work - varies day to day.
I based the 2250 calorie target on some numbers that @anubis609 provided - 11 calories per pound of bodyweight - which was 209 when I did the calculation. That should be a deficit according to the calculation.
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Edit - I am tracking weight using the LIbra app. That sparked the concern - the trend line is pointing sharply up.
Considering the variables at play, you can (and should) adjust your calorie count as needed.
But here is some observation: 2250kcal was a rough estimate based on your activity levels - meaning exercise was already figured into this number for an aggressive cut so eating back some exercise calories are going to move that goal into maintenance.
At the same time, scale weight shouldn't be your only observable metric. It's been just over 2 weeks since resetting your calorie goal to 2250. Post-holiday weight fluctuation can bounce around if 1) you've placed extra physical demand on your body, 2) you're drinking more water to accommodate for your activity levels, 3) you may be pushing too hard and stressing yourself out more than you realize, or 4) you're rounding down in tracking food, not counting small tastes, nibbles, bites, etc., having days that are unaccountable because reasons...
You took a diet break over the Xmas holidays and the mathematical assumption is that you had an average of ~3000kcal to sustain a weight around 214 lbs. Conceivably, it sounds mathematically impossible for you to gain fat if you're in a deficit.
Just to reiterate and re-route some focus:
- Scale weight is not the be all, end all determining factor for fat gain/loss
- What non-scale improvements have you noticed since coming back from the holidays?
- Have you improved performance in the gym (lifting more weight, able to maintain or give more intensity during circuit training, hike longer without as much rest as before)?
- Are your muscles starting to come in a bit more visibly?
- Have you measured limbs, torso, chest, etc?
- Do you have progress pictures that you can compare yourself to?
If any of those are in the positive, you are on the right track, regardless of what the scale says.
Anecdotally, during my summer cut, because of increased training weight for lifts, I fluctuated but trended upward in weight for about 2 months, despite an average deficit. After that, without changing eating or training strategies, my weight started trending down and kept going down over the next 3-4 months.
Fat weight loss is not linear and it never will be. But keep the goal the goal, so if you're just solely looking at scale weight, there are numerous ways to drop that number fast, but not all of them are legitimately good reasons or sustainable.
At 2 weeks, it's a bit soon to start worrying.
He was losing ~1lb a week pre Christmas and slowing down @ what looks like 1500-1700 total EATEN. TDEE is probably NOT 3K. even if it SHOULD be. thrown for consideration. Back to kibble earning.4 -
I maintained my weight while in Hawaii (didn't log) so I decided to make it part of a diet break and have been eating at maintenance since I've been back. I, too, am already struggling with staying below my maintenance calories so going back to a deficit on Monday is going to be a challenge. I agree with @HDBKLM , about how the cold weather makes it harder to stay below goal. In Hawaii, with summer weather, I was super active, ate mostly nutritionally dense foods happily, and rarely felt hungry... but as soon as I got back home to winter weather, I was starving and hardly active at all. And I only want comforting junk food. Strange how weather can do that.4
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alteredstates175 wrote: »So your January 4 to January 18 average intake, as logged, is 2302 Cal: 170C, 130F, 132P, 283mg chol, 4493 sodium, 83 sugar, 19 fiber.
Your November 1 to November 30 average intake, as logged (missing November 2): 1697 Cal: 89C. 103F, 89P, 482chol, 3135 sodium, 31 sugar, 11 fiber
Your October 1 to 31 average intake, as logged (missing about 3 days): 1590 Cal, 70C, 97F, 87P, 387 chol, 2874 sodium, 8 Fiber.
OF course there is no discussion here about your non exercise and exercise activity level.
2302 would be a fairly small deficit, right? Are you currently set to -250 or -500?
Exercise is as follows - Two 1-hour weight lifting sessions per week. Two 1-hour circuit training sessions per week. 5-10 miles of walking and/or hiking per week. I log those in Map My Walk and they sync to MFP. I eat some exercise calories but not all - the MMW estimates are ridiculously high when compared to what I see listed by other users. Activity would be considered light - some field work, some desk work - varies day to day.
I based the 2250 calorie target on some numbers that @anubis609 provided - 11 calories per pound of bodyweight - which was 209 when I did the calculation. That should be a deficit according to the calculation.
Thanks for taking the time to help me.
Edit - I am tracking weight using the LIbra app. That sparked the concern - the trend line is pointing sharply up.
Considering the variables at play, you can (and should) adjust your calorie count as needed.
But here is some observation: 2250kcal was a rough estimate based on your activity levels - meaning exercise was already figured into this number for an aggressive cut so eating back some exercise calories are going to move that goal into maintenance.
At the same time, scale weight shouldn't be your only observable metric. It's been just over 2 weeks since resetting your calorie goal to 2250. Post-holiday weight fluctuation can bounce around if 1) you've placed extra physical demand on your body, 2) you're drinking more water to accommodate for your activity levels, 3) you may be pushing too hard and stressing yourself out more than you realize, or 4) you're rounding down in tracking food, not counting small tastes, nibbles, bites, etc., having days that are unaccountable because reasons...
You took a diet break over the Xmas holidays and the mathematical assumption is that you had an average of ~3000kcal to sustain a weight around 214 lbs. Conceivably, it sounds mathematically impossible for you to gain fat if you're in a deficit.
Just to reiterate and re-route some focus:
- Scale weight is not the be all, end all determining factor for fat gain/loss
- What non-scale improvements have you noticed since coming back from the holidays?
- Have you improved performance in the gym (lifting more weight, able to maintain or give more intensity during circuit training, hike longer without as much rest as before)?
- Are your muscles starting to come in a bit more visibly?
- Have you measured limbs, torso, chest, etc?
- Do you have progress pictures that you can compare yourself to?
If any of those are in the positive, you are on the right track, regardless of what the scale says.
Anecdotally, during my summer cut, because of increased training weight for lifts, I fluctuated but trended upward in weight for about 2 months, despite an average deficit. After that, without changing eating or training strategies, my weight started trending down and kept going down over the next 3-4 months.
Fat weight loss is not linear and it never will be. But keep the goal the goal, so if you're just solely looking at scale weight, there are numerous ways to drop that number fast, but not all of them are legitimately good reasons or sustainable.
At 2 weeks, it's a bit soon to start worrying.
He was losing ~1lb a week pre Christmas and slowing down @ what looks like 1500-1700 total EATEN. TDEE is probably NOT 3K. even if it SHOULD be. thrown for consideration. Back to kibble earning.
Likely a very observable case where reality doesn't match theoretical calculations. Though, even putting that into perspective, if he was at ~1600kcal on average, adaptive thermogenesis implies that it would down regulate hormones to respond to that amount of energy.
Here's the conundrum: even if 1600kcal was what allowed for weight loss for him, there's going to be a point where his weight will settle and 1600kcal becomes his maintenance. If he still has some weight left to lose for his goal weight, would we really want him to drop his kcal even lower just to hit goal? If physical activity is going to become a factor, it's asking a lot.
At his weight and body fat now, it's possible for him to sustain a 1600kcal intake, but I wouldn't recommend the dieting period to be that long (maybe like 4-6 week periods), and while it would fit into the overarching topic of the thread to have more frequent maintenance days and diet breaks, it imposes a bit of a disordered relationship with food and weight.
And let's face it, if you're already optimally lean and still wanting to cut body fat, you're a bit nuts. I'm at the top of that list. Lol.4 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I maintained my weight while in Hawaii (didn't log) so I decided to make it part of a diet break and have been eating at maintenance since I've been back. I, too, am already struggling with staying below my maintenance calories so going back to a deficit on Monday is going to be a challenge. I agree with @HDBKLM , about how the cold weather makes it harder to stay below goal. In Hawaii, with summer weather, I was super active, ate mostly nutritionally dense foods happily, and rarely felt hungry... but as soon as I got back home to winter weather, I was starving and hardly active at all. And I only want comforting junk food. Strange how weather can do that.
There are animal and human studies that correlate weather and eating patterns. The most used example are bears. Gorge in the fall to get fat and hibernate all winter, wake up lean and hungry in spring to reproduce, raise their cubs in summer and do it all over again.
People aren't very different. Hotter environments up regulate metabolism to keep from overheating, so resting expenditure is increased. Eating food raises body temperature due to the thermogenic effect of food (TEF), and if it's already hot, the last thing we want to do is make ourselves hotter. Circadian genes also track along with natural sunlight. We will eat appropriately when we're exposed to natural light and reduce our activity/intake at night. On the opposite end, being exposed to cold temperatures and dark environments trigger the body's response to conserve more energy because of it's primal evolutionary fear of starvation and death, so we eat more and the more tasty the food, the more we get to eat.7 -
I am a firm believer in trying to do the weight loss at as high a calorie level of intake as possible.
Which may or may not mean that for the person asking he should first stabilize and see where he is in terms of intake possibly before pursuing further loss.
My personal gut advice would be to increase carbs decrease fats keep protein at current levels increased fiber and Stick calories at around 2000 or just slightly over and adjust activity to stabilize and then reevaluate after a few weeks of stability.
But that is offered as gut advice and not thought out in terms of refeeds diet breaks or anything else.
And since I'm again going to mention earning kibble, I'm not talking about activity or exercise, I am talking about earning the **means** to purchase kibble for Skylar and myself and also to fund the retirement account of the nice gentleman who kindly confirmed that the half tooth in my pocket did indeed come from my own mouth and can easily be fixed with investments approaching what some MFPeops have spent on their fuzzy cats recently 11 -
I am a firm believer in trying to do the weight loss at as high a calorie level of intake as possible.
Which may or may not mean that for the person asking he should first stabilize and see where he is in terms of intake possibly before pursuing further loss.
My personal gut advice would be to increase carbs decrease fats keep protein at current levels increased fiber and Stick calories at around 2000 or just slightly over and adjust activity to stabilize and then reevaluate after a few weeks of stability.
But that is offered as gut advice and not thought out in terms of refeeds diet breaks or anything else.
And since I'm again going to mention earning kibble, I'm not talking about activity or exercise, I am talking about earning the **means** to purchase kibble for Skylar and myself and also to fund the retirement account of the nice gentleman who kindly confirmed that the half tooth in my pocket did indeed come from my own mouth and can easily be fixed with investments approaching what some MFPeops have spent on their fuzzy cats recently
Please do not encourage fur child to spend more money in some weird competition with you (he may have his mother's competitive streak). He's already expecting me to fork out more for exotic meats he's never eaten before!*
*Mario needs to be on a hypoallergenic diet, which if I want to do homemade, involves finding a protein source he has never eaten before. Unfortunately, he's tried all the more commonly available ones....srsly, I'm looking into sourcing things like tahr and alpaca. And crocodile (mine and @GottaBurnEmAll's favourite choice for him, but likely unholy expensive).5 -
Oh, agree with what Pav said.3
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Thanks, @PAV8888, @anubis609 and @Nony_Mouse for taking the time to crunch the numbers and share your knowledge. I will stay the course at around 2000 to 2250 calories. This is relatively easy - seems like plenty of food compared to the earlier regimen. I'll work on getting some additional fiber and carbs in the plan. (Hello, oatmeal, old friend.) With an occasional treat day, I will be fine.
Patience is not my strong suit (obviously!). I will take measurements again and I will check back in a couple of weeks. Thank you.3 -
Hmmm..... I note that I am suggesting 2k for stabilization unless you increase activity.
Note that I am not sure whether there may be logging inaccuracies or just that you're in the unfortunate position off being in the Lower Side of BMR or whether you're still dealing with the adaptationn that has not yet been reversed.
I'm also not sure if you're feeling stronger and more energetic and taking advantage of that now that you're eating a few more calories.
Part of your weight increase is 100% explainable by the fact that it looks like you switched from lower carb to normal or more normal carb. So the reality is that the jump from 203 to 209 may not be as large as it looks.
But I am not convinced at this time that you can easily go above 2100ish and stabilize based on the same levels of activity that you have been doing all along.
At the same time just finding a stable situation that is not resulting in an increasing trend and figuring out how many calories that gives you is a very useful exercise potentially for you.
As Anubis said, I am not so sure that dropping to 1500 to lose is a particular wise course of action.
So yes to stabilize I would suggest somewhere not exceeding 2100, again assuming that you don't translate possible feelings of extra energy into extra activity and exercise. (Obviously the 2100 goes up if you're doing more activity)
I do hope all this is making sort of sense as I'm just hastily dictating it.3 -
Got it. Re: logging inaccuracies - I use a food scale and aim to be as accurate as possible. I'm confident that the numbers are close. Regardless, I will reduce the calorie target and continue to log.
I haven't noticed any large increase in energy levels. That varies day to day with me.
I will see if I can find the right calorie level that will give me a stable weight or a slow loss.1 -
I forgot that @alteredstates175 was low carb before. It’s dependent on if the holiday break carryover included increased carbs, but if you were generally low carbing throughout the break, then reintroduced a higher intake of carbs during this deficit round, then yes, stored glycogen will carry water weight. 1g of glycogen holds ~4g of water. The liver can hold up to 100g of glycogen and muscle glycogen can hold up to 350-500g, depending on body size. Coupled with a higher sodium intake, as water tracks with sodium, and glucose forces the kidneys to retain more water... you could easily retain pounds of water.
But that’s just a small blip in the larger part of actual energy intake/output. Adjust accordingly and make small adjustments at a time to find your own sweet spot. Once you find a downward trend happening that still allows you to eat comfortably, you’re on the right track. It might take a while so patience will be your friend.5 -
Things are looking better for me. Instead of inconveniencing my mom I decided on a different approach which seems to be working so far for the past two days. For two meals I have convenient low calorie meals that usually satisfy my hunger to take the thinking out of it, same two meals every day (instant oatmeal and boiled eggs for breakfast and instant ramen with canned tuna for lunch about 350 calories each) - I boiled eggs in advance and now I'm armed for 3 days of eggs in the fridge, the rest takes little time and energy to prepare. Entered them once and copied them to the rest of the week. I will see if I want to do something different for the next week if I feel like I need a change. For dinner I eat whatever others cook in the house in satisfying portions. This usually averages to about 700-800 calories. I will continue eating raw vegetables for snacks like I have always done and limit fruits to up to two pieces a day - convenience snacks are out for this period because they usually take too much brain power to plan around if I want to stay within calories.
Total calories for the day would average to about 1600-1800 which with my current activity level would mean a deficit of 100-300 calories, up to maintenance on days where the main meal is heavier. This should put a halt to my weight gain and maybe result in a bit of weight loss. No more having meals that consist of cookies/cake and milk for convenience (we're out of christmas cookies anyway) or snacking on convenience foods all day instead of defined meals. I knew exactly what I was doing to my calories, I was just too mentally exhausted to care. Not having to think about food felt like a more attractive option.
My main issue was that my work is mentally exhausting, so I needed a solution that would involve as little food decision making as possible, and with clearly defined rules and a known routine this seems to be doing the trick so far without thinking too much about it. Not the most exciting diet, but I have no need for an exciting diet right now. I can't even muster enough brain energy to think about wanting a more exciting diet. I'm also taking a multivitamin to make up for the lack of variety for now.
9 -
As an advocate of Libra, Happy Scale, Trendweight and even weightgrapher, all these programs capture our weight trend and changes to our weight level WITH A SHORT LAG.
This is by design so that they respond more to real changes and not as much to day to day fluctuations.
At the same time, if daily weigh ins are consistently above or below the trend... you already know which way the trend will head to in the future.
So while they do exactly what we want them to when it comes to day to day fluctuations, at the start of a consistent loss or gain they will lag slightly.4
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