Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Thanks @anubis609 I get it now. I appreciate the thoroughness of your response!1
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Hi, I got my DXA scan today - it's fascinating! (well, to me, anyway, haha). The fatty disease problems I was dreading turned out to be a non-issue, I clearly have no concept of the difference between fat and loose skin.
Body Fat%: 24.8 (Female, 67 yrs old, 5'3", 108 lbs.)
Without taking into account margin of error, this puts me at the top of the "lean" category according to their charts. The technician was of the opinion that I would be healthier (at my age) gaining back a couple of lbs. and getting into the bottom of the "average" body fat percentage, which would give me a little cushion if I were to get sick.
Is that something I should shoot for, or would I be OK maintaining at this weight and continuing resistance training? I always thought that 25% was the top of the healthy body fat percent range for women with my stats, but obviously didn't take age into account. Does it matter that much?
My goal is to stay strong and healthy as I age so I can continue doing the things I love to do. Looking good in clothes is a bonus, but secondary to strength and health. Now that I clearly need to stop losing weight, does anyone have any suggestions for what I should work on next? My favorite things to do are cycle, run and hike, and I'm sort of starting to enjoy the resistance training too
Can I stay at this weight and continue doing what I'm doing and stay healthy? Thanks!
There's a few studies around that point to longevity maximizing along the lines of BMR 23ish to 27ish (i.e. upper normal to lower overweight), especially as age increases.
Suggestion is that if you have higher cancer risks go higher, higher cardiovascular risks go lower sort of thing. This of course does not address quality of life, just length. Furthermore there is, I think, general agreement that entering older age with higher muscle mass and retaining the ability to function properly is all to the good. And that any weight loss should be accomplished with meticulous care to avoid loss of very hard to replace muscle mass, especially in higher age groups where muscle starts getting lost "naturally" on a yearly basis as our bodies may start to approach their end of the line. (Everyone should note how adroitly I avoided the label "older", a usage for which i was "called out" in another thread ;-)8 -
(Everyone should note how adroitly I avoided the label "older", a usage for which i was "called out" in another thread ;-)
I'm dying here! Without knowing the context, unless you used it in the sentence "Since you are older than dirt, here's my suggestion..." that seems a little...extreme.
For the record, I proudly embrace my "crone" status, and bestow my wisdom universally, (which may be why I don't have so many real-life friends lately).
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I'm dying here! Without knowing the context, unless you used it in the sentence "Since you are older than dirt, here's my suggestion..." that seems a little...extreme.
Thanks for the chuckle, @mph323.
Older Than Dirt is my screen name in a couple of fantasy football leagues. I embrace it as well.
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I can only view optimal bf% from a metabolic standpoint, though that may include cardiovascular and oncology, depending on someone's definition. The optimal range of body fat is going to largely play into one's overall well-being, outlook on life, subjective happiness, etc. That said, when people are in the lean/athletic range of body fat, they actually have a bit of a buffer to better handle some of the more deleterious effects of disease development since their bodies are primed for adapting to any changes in either direction. Compare the prevalence of disease development of a lean athlete to that of a normal weight, sedentary individual. More often than not, epidemiological studies will favor the lean athlete for longevity in mortality rates, but epidemiological studies aren't accurate in the sense that so many factors are at play and taking apart one or two causes are not indicative of others. They're just a tool to "try" and include as much of the population as possible without being nitpicky.
http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/9/9/1009/pdf
So, I wouldn't haphazardly advise someone to just gain more body fat without context. But I also couldn't recommend anyone to lose more if they don't need to. You can always maintain your current body fat and just focus on enjoying life in a healthy and active way.1 -
While these guys found that low overweight BMIs were good for longevity, especially in more recent decades:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2520627
These guys published, in the summer of 2016, a "stick to normal bmi levels" review study:
thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30175-1/abstract0 -
Those are good studies, but BMI =/= bf%. I can use myself as an example. I'm overweight in my BMI calculation (176.8 lbs and 5'9"), but 12.2% skulpt measured (which is probably 16-17% bf at the moment).
Also, epidemiology / all-cause mortality rates have a wild range of factors from gender, socioeconomic status, activity level, environment, genetic predisoposition, cultural difference, diet, and other multivariate factors that can contribute to that result. Which is why it's nice to use as a discussion model but need to be specified in contextual application. Even my own citation which used actual bf% cutoffs wasn't very strong in supporting evidence to recommend whether someone should gain or lose fat if measured at the border of lean/average range.2 -
@anubis609 and @PAV8888 thanks for the links and the observations. You guys shook some thoughts loose in my head! Here's a couple -
All my closest relatives have died from the results of lifestyle choices (alcohol, tobacco) or complications of old age (my dad's pushing 90 and still goes to the gym and lifts 3 days a week), and I don't have any health markers that would pre-disposition me to anything in particular. I don't have any reason to tailor my weight/body fat goals to avoid any specific disease. I get to choose!
I've never in my life reached a weight goal and said "Score! Now to enjoy the results of my hard work!". I notice I'm not doing that now either, I'm stressing over what the next goal should be. The next goal should be learning how to maintain this healthy body in a way that becomes second nature, and experimenting with all the fun things I can do now that I'm lighter and stronger!5 -
@anubis609 I think that all I have concluded from the above studies is that it is too close to call anytime you have a combined lean mass and body fat amount around the high normal level. Plus or minus a couple of points.
In other words other considerations maybe more important at that point of time.1 -
If you are in excellent health without any heritable disease risk factors, you're golden. The sentiment that anyone has achieved a goal weight and "enjoyed the results" is open to interpretation. For some it may mean that they're able to now perform physical activity as a priority or recreational enjoyment while pursuing other life goals. For others, it may mean that they've achieved permission to obliterate all that hard work and get back to their original state of health prior to dieting and exercise. I would hope it's the former.
The ultimate goal of life is to achieve a state of inner and outward meaningful peace. What that entails is up to the person. I know a 68 year old man who earned a spot to compete in the Australian Ninja Warrior course. It became his new passion to build his own training ground in his backyard and become proficient in developing the athleticism to perform the courses. Whether he succeeds in completing the entire competition to completion isn't the motivating factor, but the journey to even get to a level of preparedness is what puts a smile on his face.
So for you, if maintaining a healthy lifestyle and activity is a goal, you can most definitely keep that as a goal. Become the best version of yourself you'd like to be. Kind of like a sense of enlightenment.9 -
@anubis609 I think that all I have concluded from the above studies is that it is too close to call anytime you have a combined lean mass and body fat amount around the high normal level. Plus or minus a couple of points.
In other words other considerations maybe more important at that point of time.
Wholeheartedly agree.
In other news, I'm apparently a glutton for punishment. I mosey into various keto threads (or literally get "summoned" on occasion) and the misinformation is astounding. I'd rather practice Olympic lifts for 4 hours. Is that so much to ask for?11 -
@anubis609 and @PAV8888 thanks for the links and the observations. You guys shook some thoughts loose in my head! Here's a couple -
All my closest relatives have died from the results of lifestyle choices (alcohol, tobacco) or complications of old age (my dad's pushing 90 and still goes to the gym and lifts 3 days a week), and I don't have any health markers that would pre-disposition me to anything in particular. I don't have any reason to tailor my weight/body fat goals to avoid any specific disease. I get to choose!
I've never in my life reached a weight goal and said "Score! Now to enjoy the results of my hard work!". I notice I'm not doing that now either, I'm stressing over what the next goal should be. The next goal should be learning how to maintain this healthy body in a way that becomes second nature, and experimenting with all the fun things I can do now that I'm lighter and stronger!
And oh that can be so difficult to have that as a goal.
Like I have a hard time keeping to an eating goal if the workouts aren't happening.
Then again that could be a problem of liking to eat more.
Or I keep attempting the "feed a cold" theory since that's what I get.2 -
While these guys found that low overweight BMIs were good for longevity, especially in more recent decades:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2520627
These guys published, in the summer of 2016, a "stick to normal bmi levels" review study:
thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30175-1/abstract
I find humor in all the studies on mortality rates. what I mean is that in the end, our mortality rate is going to be 100% I know that the best goal we can have is to live as long as we can and in the best health that we can, so of course, keeping an eye on things that are detrimental to our health is a good idea. I just find it humorous and rather ironic that some folks will spend all their time obsessing over over little thing that will possibly, maybe affect a .0X% of their mortality rate in the next 10 years instead of just enjoying their lives.
That's not pointed at any one person; I'm just making a random, general statement based upon comments I see on various articles and the way various articles are often sensationalized. I just think that instead of stressing out over the minuscule things, that most people would be far happier if they'd deal with the big issues in life and then enjoy their lives - you know, enjoy the forest instead of focusing on the trees..... lol
But that's just me waxing philosophical! And of course, I'm just as guilty as most other folks. for instance, just this morning, I was temporarily irked because most days, I eat right at or slightly over my calorie limit, but since I'm at or over, that means I don't get the "and was under her calorie goal" message when I close my diary. I know, its really stupid to let it irk me, even if it only lasts for 5 seconds or so, but I'm a rules follower, and I have this initial knee-jerk reaction when it comes to things my mind has perceived as "the rules" so when my brain sees something and categorizes it as a rule that I failed to achieve, I get a sense of guilt. Rationally, I know this is ridiculous; but emotions rarely care about being rational......Of course, that statement follows back on to why so many folks stress over the minors So I'm just as guilty as everyone else!@anubis609 I think that all I have concluded from the above studies is that it is too close to call anytime you have a combined lean mass and body fat amount around the high normal level. Plus or minus a couple of points.
In other words other considerations maybe more important at that point of time.
Wholeheartedly agree.
In other news, I'm apparently a glutton for punishment. I mosey into various keto threads (or literally get "summoned" on occasion) and the misinformation is astounding. I'd rather practice Olympic lifts for 4 hours. Is that so much to ask for?
oh, so you caught that you were mentioned in the "keto means not counting calories" thread! *grins*
I saw this thread this morning that you guys might find interesting:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10635955/lyle-mcdonald-legit-or-fos2 -
@anubis609 and @PAV8888 thanks for the links and the observations. You guys shook some thoughts loose in my head! Here's a couple -
All my closest relatives have died from the results of lifestyle choices (alcohol, tobacco) or complications of old age (my dad's pushing 90 and still goes to the gym and lifts 3 days a week), and I don't have any health markers that would pre-disposition me to anything in particular. I don't have any reason to tailor my weight/body fat goals to avoid any specific disease. I get to choose!
I've never in my life reached a weight goal and said "Score! Now to enjoy the results of my hard work!". I notice I'm not doing that now either, I'm stressing over what the next goal should be. The next goal should be learning how to maintain this healthy body in a way that becomes second nature, and experimenting with all the fun things I can do now that I'm lighter and stronger!
And oh that can be so difficult to have that as a goal.
Like I have a hard time keeping to an eating goal if the workouts aren't happening.
Then again that could be a problem of liking to eat more.
Or I keep attempting the "feed a cold" theory since that's what I get.
Exactly! I re-thought that a little and signed up yesterday for a metric century in April that I did last year when I was 10 lbs heavier, and really struggled. I'm counting on the fear of putting myself through that again to replace the thrill of watching the scale go down.
And yeah, getting injured or sick would be problematical, cause ya gotta fuel that recovery, right?3 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »While these guys found that low overweight BMIs were good for longevity, especially in more recent decades:
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/1555137
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2520627
These guys published, in the summer of 2016, a "stick to normal bmi levels" review study:
thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)30175-1/abstract
I find humor in all the studies on mortality rates. what I mean is that in the end, our mortality rate is going to be 100% I know that the best goal we can have is to live as long as we can and in the best health that we can, so of course, keeping an eye on things that are detrimental to our health is a good idea. I just find it humorous and rather ironic that some folks will spend all their time obsessing over over little thing that will possibly, maybe affect a .0X% of their mortality rate in the next 10 years instead of just enjoying their lives.
That's not pointed at any one person; I'm just making a random, general statement based upon comments I see on various articles and the way various articles are often sensationalized. I just think that instead of stressing out over the minuscule things, that most people would be far happier if they'd deal with the big issues in life and then enjoy their lives - you know, enjoy the forest instead of focusing on the trees..... lol
But that's just me waxing philosophical! And of course, I'm just as guilty as most other folks. for instance, just this morning, I was temporarily irked because most days, I eat right at or slightly over my calorie limit, but since I'm at or over, that means I don't get the "and was under her calorie goal" message when I close my diary. I know, its really stupid to let it irk me, even if it only lasts for 5 seconds or so, but I'm a rules follower, and I have this initial knee-jerk reaction when it comes to things my mind has perceived as "the rules" so when my brain sees something and categorizes it as a rule that I failed to achieve, I get a sense of guilt. Rationally, I know this is ridiculous; but emotions rarely care about being rational......Of course, that statement follows back on to why so many folks stress over the minors So I'm just as guilty as everyone else!@anubis609 I think that all I have concluded from the above studies is that it is too close to call anytime you have a combined lean mass and body fat amount around the high normal level. Plus or minus a couple of points.
In other words other considerations maybe more important at that point of time.
Wholeheartedly agree.
In other news, I'm apparently a glutton for punishment. I mosey into various keto threads (or literally get "summoned" on occasion) and the misinformation is astounding. I'd rather practice Olympic lifts for 4 hours. Is that so much to ask for?
oh, so you caught that you were mentioned in the "keto means not counting calories" thread! *grins*
I saw this thread this morning that you guys might find interesting:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10635955/lyle-mcdonald-legit-or-fos
I forget which form of social media I get tagged in sometimes lol. It's highly possible I've engaged the same people on mfp/fb/instagram/twitter without knowing.
And to your statement, yes, the absolute cause for mortality is birth. Haha. Controllable risk factors just enhance or worsen the journey, but from a philosophical perspective, there is merit in making it as meaningful as possible.2 -
I think the women's book becomes available in the next couple of hours for anyone who was waiting on it.5
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Cool! I feel a loot reward coming on
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I get free hugs for announcing his release? I'll have to tag him in something completely ridiculous as thanks
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3
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Eek!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 -
Lyle's breaking the internet. Apparently his announcement sent the site into errors for some people lol. Good luck. There are signed and regular versions.1
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Lyle's breaking the internet. Apparently his announcement sent the site into errors for some people lol. Good luck. There are signed and regular versions.
Yeah, I got an error the first couple of times.
But, but, but... Is it more expensive than the other books because it's pink?!? Dammit 3 -
Lyle's breaking the internet. Apparently his announcement sent the site into errors for some people lol. Good luck. There are signed and regular versions.
I want the signed version dammit!! But an extra $40 on top for postage, plus conversion to NZD, plus may as well have Kindle version as well...0 -
Decisions like this stress me out
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Lyle's breaking the internet. Apparently his announcement sent the site into errors for some people lol. Good luck. There are signed and regular versions.
Yeah, I got an error the first couple of times.
But, but, but... Is it more expensive than the other books because it's pink?!? Dammit
It’s expensive because it’s long af lol. Plus he’s donating $5 to a foundation for women so there’s that. But I got the signed + pdf version. Just because I like 2 copies of stuff haha1 -
Lyle's breaking the internet. Apparently his announcement sent the site into errors for some people lol. Good luck. There are signed and regular versions.
Yeah, I got an error the first couple of times.
But, but, but... Is it more expensive than the other books because it's pink?!? Dammit
It’s expensive because it’s long af lol. Plus he’s donating $5 to a foundation for women so there’s that. But I got the signed + pdf version. Just because I like 2 copies of stuff haha
Yeah I got signed plus Kindle, with spency shipping to NZ. And managed to order two copies thanks to an internal server error message! If I'd waited a couple of minutes before hitting purchase again the confirmation email would have come through![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
. So now I have the fun of working out how to reverse that (email to Lyle has been dispatched). 3 -
Yeah he doesn't have a problem with refunding. He should get that sorted for you.1
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I'm probably not the only one it happened to...0
I think it’s awesome!
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