Of refeeds and diet breaks

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  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Thanks for the well wishes on the migraine ladies. In the grand scheme of things, it's one of my milder ones, so I'm managing. It seems like the front that came through last night set it off, which isn't surprising. My head is very sensitive to pressure changes. I just really don't need anything to wipe me out further at this point.

    Well, it makes sticking to going back to deficit very easy today, that's for sure!
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    In fitness science related news, Eric Helms just posted his doctorate graduation pics from NZ. @Nony_Mouse belongs to a bit of fitspo history by population lol.

    The fires here were surrounding my area, but nothing that immediately threatened my neighborhood. Though, I do have a friend whose house was 3 miles from the heart of it and luckily the winds blew the fire away from his home. Well, lucky for him, but unfortunate for those who had to be evacuated.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Bret Contreras did his doctorate here too ;) Who knew NZ was the go to place for these things?!

    It's 29 C in my house :\
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bret Contreras did his doctorate here too ;) Who knew NZ was the go to place for these things?!

    It's 29 C in my house :\

    I'm having flashbacks to my flat in summer. Mind you, our summer was largely crap this year so I didn't have to put up with it too much. Other years it has been hellish. I love the heat but cannot cope well if it's indoors with me!

    NZ does have an alarmingly large per head gifted athlete ratio so it sort of makes sense.
  • anubis609
    anubis609 Posts: 3,966 Member
    I think for their specific degrees or purposes of conducting research, there may not be an equivalent here in the states.. I know Eric mentioned it in a podcast with Danny Lennon. I just can't remember the exact reason. Lol.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    We are big on the sporty stuff, esp. stupid rugby. And yet somehow still manage to be 3rd in the world for obesity.
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    Jumping in to say Arthur Lydiard, one of world's best coaches ever is from NZ.

    @GottaBurnEmAll, I get awful, awful migranes too. Hope you feel better soon and you too, @VintageFeline.

    @Nony_Mouse, whatever's happened to your little competition? :)

    @livingleanlivingclean, yes, echoing what others have said. Hope you find your answers.

    @anubis609, sounds like you had a great weekend (apart from the funeral service of course) and hoping the fires stay away from your neighbourhood!

    A question I thought I'd pose in this thread rather than clutter the other thread with science-y stuff - what is the relationship between lower core body temp and metabolism? Is it a direct relationship (which I thought so)? I.e. lower core body temperature = lower metabolism (or RMR)? Or is it an inverse relationship where lower core temp = higher RMR?
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Lower core temp = lower metabolism. Eg, women in their late luteal phase have a higher temp, and a higher RMR. When you diet, your 'resting' temp goes down with adaptive thermogenesis, part of the body conserving energy. So if you have a baseline (and it needs to be done as soon as you wake, before you get out of bed) at maintenance/pre-diet, you can use that to keep an eye on AT. Lyle talks about it in a couple of his podcasts (it's in the refeeds one, for sure).

    As for my competition, I broke it by having a deficit day, when I was meant to be sticking to Fitbit TDEE, but that was after I'd topped out at ovulation anyway. 'Cept now I'm not sure I can remember my top weight...it was 63.1 I think, so if anyone guessed 1.7 kg, they win.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bret Contreras did his doctorate here too ;) Who knew NZ was the go to place for these things?!

    It's 29 C in my house :\

    Nony can't you get one of those air conditioners that fit into a window? Would your Landlord mind? It's 11am here and it's already 32 C, it's gonna be shtinker today!!
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    We are big on the sporty stuff, esp. stupid rugby. And yet somehow still manage to be 3rd in the world for obesity.

    Hey, the UK is massively into sports and we too are failing with the obesity thing. I actually think, like with income inequality, there's little middle ground. Either you're like us who really enjoy health and fitness or you're at the other end merrily eating your way through life (and I say that without judgement). Food and thus obesity, in my view, is a symptom of broader societal inequality. A fat society is an unhappy society. Addiction is out of control now too and again a symptom. But this is not the venue for such philosophical debate!

    Sort of related aside. Being from Scotland rugby is huge there too. And football. I went to the same school as Gavin and Scott Hastings (whose pictures were all over the PE building) and my friends older brother went on to play for Scotland too. Oh and it's the same school Chris Hoy went to.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bret Contreras did his doctorate here too ;) Who knew NZ was the go to place for these things?!

    It's 29 C in my house :\

    Nony can't you get one of those air conditioners that fit into a window? Would your Landlord mind? It's 11am here and it's already 32 C, it's gonna be shtinker today!!

    I don't think they're even a thing here, and I don't think I have the right kind of windows for them.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    Bret Contreras did his doctorate here too ;) Who knew NZ was the go to place for these things?!

    It's 29 C in my house :\

    Nony can't you get one of those air conditioners that fit into a window? Would your Landlord mind? It's 11am here and it's already 32 C, it's gonna be shtinker today!!

    I don't think they're even a thing here, and I don't think I have the right kind of windows for them.

    Wow that's so interesting. Your summers are obviously way different to ours. We would swelter where i live with no air conditioners in our homes. They are more of a necessity than a luxury.

    This is what I'm talking about:
    xfdip2j3qieg.jpglh95ifey6nie.jpg

  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    anubis609 wrote: »
    maybyn wrote: »
    Jumping in to say Arthur Lydiard, one of world's best coaches ever is from NZ.

    A question I thought I'd pose in this thread rather than clutter the other thread with science-y stuff - what is the relationship between lower core body temp and metabolism? Is it a direct relationship (which I thought so)? I.e. lower core body temperature = lower metabolism (or RMR)? Or is it an inverse relationship where lower core temp = higher RMR?

    Core body temperature tends to track with metabolic rates. It's part of the insane reason why ice baths have become popular > to expose the outer skin to extreme cold and force the body to shiver and raise core temperature to battle the frigid torture and stimulate brown adipose tissue (BAT) to burn.. suggesting the shift of white adipose tissue (WAT) to convert to BAT and also burn off, therefore increasing metabolic rate. NEAT is another example of increasing metabolism via activity: constant physical movement > increase in core temp > increase in metabolism.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5081410/

    Thanks @Nony_Mouse and for the link, @anubis609. I know/believe I've a lower core temp (hands/feet always cold, feeling cold even in summer) and it's been like this since I was a kid. I don't think it's affected my RMR though (according to the dexa scan results I did last time) and I think my RMR result was higher than online calculators? The online calcs mix up RMR and BMR like they are the same thing so I'm never sure where I am versus the general population...
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    Just read the article anubis posted.

    Even that article treats RMR and BMR like one and the same thing when making up components of TDEE and another article I read says that RMR calculation uses Mifflin St. Jeor Equation. If that's the case, then my RMR result is A LOT higher than online estimates but feeling cold is always a problem for me and my assumption has always been that I have a low metabolism. It's a big joke with my family about me always feeling cold and we all get frustrated because I'm always wanting the heater on when everyone else is so hot!
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    Just read the article anubis posted.

    Even that article treats RMR and BMR like one and the same thing when making up components of TDEE and another article I read says that RMR calculation uses Mifflin St. Jeor Equation. If that's the case, then my RMR result is A LOT higher than online estimates but feeling cold is always a problem for me and my assumption has always been that I have a low metabolism. It's a big joke with my family about me always feeling cold and we all get frustrated because I'm always wanting the heater on when everyone else is so hot!

    I have no idea what my RMR is or anything like that, but I am the butt of similar family jokes. I too am cold, even in summer. Sit in the shade in the summer? Freezing. With chills. It's terrible. The funny thing is that I was like this before I lost weight. It started as soon as I passed menopause. Before that, I was always hot. I went whole winters wearing just a spring jacket. I look back at my former self in horror.
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As for my competition, I broke it by having a deficit day, when I was meant to be sticking to Fitbit TDEE, but that was after I'd topped out at ovulation anyway. 'Cept now I'm not sure I can remember my top weight...it was 63.1 I think, so if anyone guessed 1.7 kg, they win.

    So I had 2.1kg as my original guess :)

    Anyone closer than that? This is bringing out the competitive streak in me...! lol
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    I have hideous thermoregulation. I get both too hot and too cold very easily. Like, parents found me hypothermic in my bedroom at age 2. Water, water, water if I'm out on a hot day (or in this damn house!), or I will start to feel sick.

    Net curtain acquired. I hate it with a fiery passion already, but it will hopefully keep the lounge a bit cooler with filtering the sun a bit in the morning. Luckily, the eaves above the north facing French doors (set in both lounge and dining room) provide enough block with the sun as high as it is at the moment, plus the beautiful big tree in the backyard shades the house and deck (come Autumn I am less enamoured with that tree because it drops an endless supply of leaves). Oh, and needed pliers to cut the wire hanging cord thingy for the curtain. I don't have those (I keep meaning to buy a new set to replace the ones I lost). For now I have just cut through the plastic and shoved the hook in, with the surplus cord hanging down.

    It's also possible that Mario is not smart enough to realise the windows behind the net curtain are open...the curtain is a bit long, so I may put my spare dumbbell plates to good use to hold it in place and further aid this disguising.

    Ceiling fan is on Iroquois speed. It helps.
  • Nony_Mouse
    Nony_Mouse Posts: 5,646 Member
    maybyn wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    As for my competition, I broke it by having a deficit day, when I was meant to be sticking to Fitbit TDEE, but that was after I'd topped out at ovulation anyway. 'Cept now I'm not sure I can remember my top weight...it was 63.1 I think, so if anyone guessed 1.7 kg, they win.

    So I had 2.1kg as my original guess :)

    Anyone closer than that? This is bringing out the competitive streak in me...! lol

    Gawd, how many pages do I need to go back to find everyone's guesses?? You'd think I'd have thought to write them down...
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
    Yes, they do intermix BMR and RMR incorrectly.

    Same way far too many totally knowledgeable talking heads will mix LBM and muscle mass, only in context can you discern they meant muscle mass - but they said LBM.
    Worse, some are saying Lean Muscle Mass same as commercials as if that's a thing. (it's not except from butcher)

    BMR is typically found in the morning after an evening sleep in lab when they wake you and put device on you and back to sleep. Truly Basal, not much else going on but perhaps some repair work, but otherwise basic functions of life.

    RMR includes being awake, and the brain uses energy, even if sitting/reclining there relaxed - but not supposed to sleep.

    Nelson & Cunningham (using LBM) and few others are examples of RMR formula.
    Harris, Mifflin, Katch (using LBM) are examples of BMR formula.

    There's usually a 100-200 cal difference higher on RMR.

    So it can make a difference which one you start with.

    Bodpod software used to, still may, throw out RMR results based on LBM, and then estimated TDEE based on perhaps nothing you told the operator.
    Be curious what DEXA uses, I know I looked over several people's test results but not sure I figured it out if it didn't state it.

    RMR test of course gives that.


    Oh, the body temp thing is totally based on comparison to your steady state - so you gotta have avg temp when not in a diet or surplus, or sick, or repairing after lifting, ect, ect.
    So big avg over time based on good data points - through out others.

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