Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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Ah, the old days of if one kid got it, stick all the kids together so they all got it at once basically.
Interesting theory on some sicknesses, not so sure it would work today with what we have available.2 -
I think that’s still accepted wisdom with a lot of people.
In other news. Whole tub of ice cream just threw itself down my throat. Rude.13 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Frantic Googling suggests that because I've had chicken pox I should be okay, ie can't catch it/shingles from someone else. I got the pox for my first Christmas
Shingles is the re-activation of the chicken pox virus that is lurking in your body. Basically, if you've ever had chicken pox, you're at risk for shingles. You'll never catch chicken pox again from another person, but you can develop shingles at later points in your life, and yeah, I've been told it can happen when your immune system is down.
It's funny because when I was a kid, it was thought to be the other way around, and my mother swore that if you had chicken pox, you'd never get shingles. She even purposely sent my brother to play with a friend's son so he would catch chicken pox and get it out of the way!
And she really couldn't understand why you'd get the chicken pox vaccine.....bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Frantic Googling suggests that because I've had chicken pox I should be okay, ie can't catch it/shingles from someone else. I got the pox for my first Christmas
Shingles is the re-activation of the chicken pox virus that is lurking in your body. Basically, if you've ever had chicken pox, you're at risk for shingles. You'll never catch chicken pox again from another person, but you can develop shingles at later points in your life, and yeah, I've been told it can happen when your immune system is down.
It's funny because when I was a kid, it was thought to be the other way around, and my mother swore that if you had chicken pox, you'd never get shingles. She even purposely sent my brother to play with a friend's son so he would catch chicken pox and get it out of the way!
And she really couldn't understand why you'd get the chicken pox vaccine.....
Yes, it's a reactivation of chicken pox. My HZ virus could re-activate at any time, but not from exposure to someone with shingles.
Fun fact, my older sister never developed proper immunity to chicken pox. She gets it any times she's exposed. Not shingles, pox. Fun because she is an evil, child abandoning *kitten*. Karma
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VintageFeline wrote: »I think that’s still accepted wisdom with a lot of people.
In other news. Whole tub of ice cream just threw itself down my throat. Rude.
quite rude! I hope you dealt with that tub properly! lol2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »In other news. Whole tub of ice cream just threw itself down my throat. Rude.
Cracking me up here, Vintage. I did not know ice cream could do that. It's adult beverages in Steve's world. Cheers!
I've been coming back to read the posts in this thread every day since I discovered it. I have learned a few things about calorie restriction and refeeds and such. Insightful and entertaining at the same time.5 -
VintageFeline wrote: »I think that’s still accepted wisdom with a lot of people.
In other news. Whole tub of ice cream just threw itself down my throat. Rude.
Several pieces of choc covered ginger fell into my mouth last night, but, medicinal.5 -
alteredstates175 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »In other news. Whole tub of ice cream just threw itself down my throat. Rude.
Cracking me up here, Vintage. I did not know ice cream could do that. It's adult beverages in Steve's world. Cheers!
I've been coming back to read the posts in this thread every day since I discovered it. I have learned a few things about calorie restriction and refeeds and such. Insightful and entertaining at the same time.
Glad you are taking the time to slog through it. There's a lot of really good stuff in between our chatter about cats, dogs, eczema, and ice cream!1 -
I bought this cute thing yesterday (gawd I need to stop with the retail therapy). Please note the normal person looking skin!! I confess I'm not entirely confident about wearing this without some sort of leg covering. Paranoia about revealing my butt to the world (I am a shocker for forgetting I'm wearing short dresses and then bending over). But couldn't pass it up. Op shop find.
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Ah, the old days of if one kid got it, stick all the kids together so they all got it at once basically.
Interesting theory on some sicknesses, not so sure it would work today with what we have available.
My mom did this when I got the chicken pox. She put my sister and I together so that my sister would go ahead and get them out of the way. But it had nothing to do with shingles. Chicken pox can actually be a more serious disease in adulthood.0 -
Ah, the old days of if one kid got it, stick all the kids together so they all got it at once basically.
Interesting theory on some sicknesses, not so sure it would work today with what we have available.
My mom did this when I got the chicken pox. She put my sister and I together so that my sister would go ahead and get them out of the way. But it had nothing to do with shingles. Chicken pox can actually be a more serious disease in adulthood.
Yep, most things, if you're going to get them, you want to get them as a child. 'Cept probably whooping cough. I had it a few years ago, and I can't even imagine a baby or child having to suffer through that. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and that's saying something!
Vaccinate, people!!4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Ah, the old days of if one kid got it, stick all the kids together so they all got it at once basically.
Interesting theory on some sicknesses, not so sure it would work today with what we have available.
My mom did this when I got the chicken pox. She put my sister and I together so that my sister would go ahead and get them out of the way. But it had nothing to do with shingles. Chicken pox can actually be a more serious disease in adulthood.
Yep, most things, if you're going to get them, you want to get them as a child. 'Cept probably whooping cough. I had it a few years ago, and I can't even imagine a baby or child having to suffer through that. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and that's saying something!
Vaccinate, people!!
Absolutely agree. My sister never did get the chicken pox, even when her son got them. I guess she may have had a subclinical infection maybe?
And I have had shingles already. Mine was very mild, although it was close to my eye and they put me on antivirals.1 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Total cholesterol is a *kitten* measure... because it increases as HDL increases. And dieting and exercise can mess up blood work. You are better off looking and non hdl chesterol numbers and maybe HDL to Cholesterol ratios.
The biggest thing is, if you have little to no family history of heart disease and your numbers fall within a good range, than you are in a good state of health. My LDLs will always be and have always been fairly high, because my parents... both are at a higher range.
I will mirror what Lemon is saying and expand on it to say that you may want to compare HDL and triglycerides. I mentioned this in a previous post, but if you're managing blood glucose, I might suspect that you may be following a more low carb, higher fat style of diet. If that's the case, circulating free fatty acids in the blood rise due to the nature of higher fat foods. This is totally normal and somewhat self-explanatory, but in no way does it mean that your risk of CV has necessarily increased. It's all in context.
Higher fat foods = higher circulating fatty acids = elevation in cholesterol levels. As Lemon mentioned, HDL will increase as your health improves. Triglycerides are what you would ultimately like to reduce since it is a measure of packaged sugar lipids that get stored directly into fat cells. LDL is a subjective panel since it is not accurately measured into its constituent particle size and concentration numbers, unless you specifically ask for an NMR lipo-profile test, which most health insurance companies don't provide in standard testing. Though, you can predict the quality of LDL if triglycerides are low and HDL is high (ideally within a 1:1 ratio, or evenly matched numbers).
Actually, I'm not doing low carb at all . I've got carbs set to 45% protein set to 30% and fat to 25%, but most days, I don't hit the fat goal, and I'm always struggling to get the protein goal, so I figure I'm probably eating a higher carb diet than what my macro's are set for.
I'm not diabetic or even pre-diabetic, though I was diagnosed as insulin resistant. I do keep an eye on blood sugar levels, though, because diabetes is very prevalent on my mom's side, and both of my parents and my sister have developed it. My motivation in January to start losing weight was because I really, really didn't want to become diabetic!
My dad's side has a pretty heavy trend toward heart disease, with several folks having had heart attacks or strokes or died from them on his side. My mom's dad died from a massive heart attack, though her mother at age 80 just had a heart cath done ahead of having a valve replaced and she was told her arteries are perfectly clean - clean as someone significantly younger than she is, so I figure my chances for heart disease are probably something like 70/30 lol
From February 2017 to now, my fasting blood sugar went from 81 to 90 - still in the good range, though a bit up from before (but I fasted for something like 8 or 9 hours, which was the bare minimum, which might possibly explain the slight elevation). A1C stayed at 5.3 - still under 6, so good, and actually down a little from 2015. So I'm not worried about blood sugar levels.
From February 2017 to now, total cholesterol went up from 159 to 164. Hdl stayed the same at 40 (down from my 2016 high at 47), but the ratio went up because total went up. Non-HDL went up from 119 to 124. LDL went from 94 to 104. Triglycerides went from 127 to 100, which is a very good downward trend from 2015 level of 156.
The values taken yesterday were after losing over 75 lbs from my weight in February when the first set of values were taken, which means my triglycerides have greatly improved, but HDL hasn't budged, even after losing 75 lbs, and total and LDL both went up some.
I've tried to cut out the processed foods and am trying to eat more lean meats, fish, and frozen or fresh vegetables, though I still get processed meat in my lunches. I've been following something closer to a Meditteranean style diet and am definitely not cooking from pre-packaged meal kits; most of my grocery bill is produce or frozen and dairy; very little from the middle sections of the grocery aisle.
I'm not worried, but hadn't known that losing weight could actually cause a temporary rise in cholesterol levels for some folks, though I suppose it does make sense in a way. My doctor is happy, anyway!
This does give me another question: if obesity elevates your risk of having a fatty liver, would higher cholesterol as you lose weight might indicate the liver is losing that extra fat?
You've done well to lose the excess weight and that's the most important thing. I suppose I'm a "recovering" T2 diabetic, since I reversed it, though my A1C is still a running 5.2-5.3% (~95mg/dL), which is technically okay, though it could be better. In the context of macro composition, % ranges don't quite explain the actual amount of grams per macro you're consuming.
The percentage is a reflection of macro calories eaten within the total number of calories you consume; i.e. on a 2000kcal/day diet, 45% carbs reflects 900kcal / 4kcal/g = 225g carbs, 30% protein = 600kcal / 4kcal/g = 150g protein, 25% fat = 500kcal / 9kcal/g = 55.55g fat.
The actual grams consumed per macro are going to change based on your total caloric intake. Taken to the extreme, eating 1g of carbs for the entire day of 4kcal = 100% carbs.
The funny thing is that no one can agree on what a Mediterranean diet is lol. It's either a higher fat/protein diet comprised of olive oil, fatty fish, meats and cheeses .... or it's a higher carb/higher fat focused on pasta, grains, seafood, vegetables, and oils. No one can determine its exact diet, and nutritional science researchers will argue amongst themselves to debate it.
HDL levels can be increased through the consumption of naturally occurring sources of dietary fat, so going too lean by way of proteins, legumes, cooking methods, etc may just keep HDL the same. Physical activity also improve HDL levels, though you don't want to focus solely on the method of cardio enthusiast, but moderate intensity activity overall does help.
Finally to answer the question of fatty liver, ectopic and visceral fat (organ and deep trunk fat, respectively) are actually the first to go when fat loss regimens are implemented. Subcutaneous adipose tissue (the fat we see in the mirror) is the last to go, and always the most stubborn. So in terms of cholesterol panels, there would be a fluctuation due to the release of fatty acids in blood circulation, however, their oxidation sites are going to vary. The heart actually thrives on fatty acids for fuel and many of the lipoproteins serve to get oxidized in cardiac muscle cells. Skeletal muscle can also oxidize much of the fatty acids when glucose and glycogen become low, but when insulin resistance is taken into account, fatty acids may bypass them to get sent to the liver and packaged as triglycerides for storage.
The actual measurement taken for cholesterol is what's currently in circulation and not what's being used/stored, so losing fat can manipulate those numbers somewhat, but again that's just a snapshot in time of the current concentration in the blood.3 -
... it showed up *insert hard eyeroll*1
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... I need approval to post?
nvm.. past 2 replies just went straight to hell.0 -
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »
My first reply did include numbers... second reply had no numbers. Both flagged for approval before posting. I'll come back later to see if I can properly respond to @bmeadows380 when my workload calms the eff down.
Which btw, for the 3rd time I'm trying to address it, decreasing liver fat doesn't do too much in terms of circulating cholesterol.. it will play a small role, but unless it all comes off at once and literally floods the bloodstream, it wouldn't be too noticeable by leaps and bounds.0 -
*sends calming workload thoughts to Anubis*
I'm just kinda ignoring mine.0 -
I wish I could ignore mine but my workload actually calls me lol0
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Sadly, I haven't had time to keep up with everything going on with this thread, but wanted wanted to say "Cheers!" to everyone still here.
And for the data obsessed like me, I wanted to report back about my loss 45 days after diet break ended. Math says I'm averaging a .93 lb loss per week! And I haven't been at a steady deficit all those days because I had house guests for a few days in early Nov, Thanksgiving, leftovers (damn, I swore I wouldn't!) and lunches out with my daughter home from college, anniversary, etc.
I'm amazed at how my body has responded from the diet break. I'm definitely ahead in weight loss because of it. Looking forward to another pound or two loss before my next break at Christmas!
Hope to find time to catch up with all the pet/eczema/hot mini skirt news soon.7 -
For anyone interested in minimizing fat gain during the holidays (really, who isn't), here's a nice write-up from an overall smart and cool dude, Alex Leaf. I think he'll be a long-term name in the nutritional science field.
https://examine.com/nutrition/meta-minimizing-fat-gain/2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »I bought this cute thing yesterday (gawd I need to stop with the retail therapy). Please note the normal person looking skin!! I confess I'm not entirely confident about wearing this without some sort of leg covering. Paranoia about revealing my butt to the world (I am a shocker for forgetting I'm wearing short dresses and then bending over). But couldn't pass it up. Op shop find.
You look *amazing* in that.4 -
I wish I could ignore mine but my workload actually calls me lol
Mine usually does, and I did have a good catch up yesterday with my colleague who is the head archaeologist for this project, so that got synapses firing again. I have about 50 billion pie charts to make for shell and fishbone data...a lot of them are actually very simple, small sites, single samples. It's the big ones, which require pivot tables and complicated brain must be working quantification methodology to be applied that are the issue!1 -
Aw thanks @collectingblues I know how to strike a pose! 6
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For anyone interested in minimizing fat gain during the holidays (really, who isn't), here's a nice write-up from an overall smart and cool dude, Alex Leaf. I think he'll be a long-term name in the nutritional science field.
https://examine.com/nutrition/meta-minimizing-fat-gain/
"eat your meat" pfft.
*tries to think how to translate this to non-meat nibbly things*0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »For anyone interested in minimizing fat gain during the holidays (really, who isn't), here's a nice write-up from an overall smart and cool dude, Alex Leaf. I think he'll be a long-term name in the nutritional science field.
https://examine.com/nutrition/meta-minimizing-fat-gain/
"eat your meat" pfft.
*tries to think how to translate this to non-meat nibbly things*
Eat your....tofu/tempeh? lol0 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »For anyone interested in minimizing fat gain during the holidays (really, who isn't), here's a nice write-up from an overall smart and cool dude, Alex Leaf. I think he'll be a long-term name in the nutritional science field.
https://examine.com/nutrition/meta-minimizing-fat-gain/
"eat your meat" pfft.
*tries to think how to translate this to non-meat nibbly things*
Eat your....tofu/tempeh? lol
Tofu should only be eaten if deep fried and covered in peanut sauce. Tempeh, not pure (or near pure) protein. Also neither of these things are remotely Christmassy!
I'm sticking with bubbles, nibbles, my body weight in cherries...maybe protein cheesecake, but I need to experiment with those first, and let's face it, I will totally be putting a gingernut biscuit base on that sucker if I make one.2 -
You've done well to lose the excess weight and that's the most important thing. I suppose I'm a "recovering" T2 diabetic, since I reversed it, though my A1C is still a running 5.2-5.3% (~95mg/dL), which is technically okay, though it could be better. In the context of macro composition, % ranges don't quite explain the actual amount of grams per macro you're consuming.
The percentage is a reflection of macro calories eaten within the total number of calories you consume; i.e. on a 2000kcal/day diet, 45% carbs reflects 900kcal / 4kcal/g = 225g carbs, 30% protein = 600kcal / 4kcal/g = 150g protein, 25% fat = 500kcal / 9kcal/g = 55.55g fat.
The actual grams consumed per macro are going to change based on your total caloric intake. Taken to the extreme, eating 1g of carbs for the entire day of 4kcal = 100% carbs.
The funny thing is that no one can agree on what a Mediterranean diet is lol. It's either a higher fat/protein diet comprised of olive oil, fatty fish, meats and cheeses .... or it's a higher carb/higher fat focused on pasta, grains, seafood, vegetables, and oils. No one can determine its exact diet, and nutritional science researchers will argue amongst themselves to debate it.
HDL levels can be increased through the consumption of naturally occurring sources of dietary fat, so going too lean by way of proteins, legumes, cooking methods, etc may just keep HDL the same. Physical activity also improve HDL levels, though you don't want to focus solely on the method of cardio enthusiast, but moderate intensity activity overall does help.
Finally to answer the question of fatty liver, ectopic and visceral fat (organ and deep trunk fat, respectively) are actually the first to go when fat loss regimens are implemented. Subcutaneous adipose tissue (the fat we see in the mirror) is the last to go, and always the most stubborn. So in terms of cholesterol panels, there would be a fluctuation due to the release of fatty acids in blood circulation, however, their oxidation sites are going to vary. The heart actually thrives on fatty acids for fuel and many of the lipoproteins serve to get oxidized in cardiac muscle cells. Skeletal muscle can also oxidize much of the fatty acids when glucose and glycogen become low, but when insulin resistance is taken into account, fatty acids may bypass them to get sent to the liver and packaged as triglycerides for storage.
The actual measurement taken for cholesterol is what's currently in circulation and not what's being used/stored, so losing fat can manipulate those numbers somewhat, but again that's just a snapshot in time of the current concentration in the blood.
I was having problems with disappearing posts too. I had this one typed up, thought I lost it, then typed it again only to find the original showing up!
I have never been diagnosed as either diabetic or pre-diabetic, but I figured with my family history, my risk was pretty high. I am hoping that losing the weight will help stave it off that much longer.
Is there a physiological difference for folks when it comes to diabetes if they've been diabetics and reversed it with diet and exercise and those who have never been diagnosed? I've seen articles that do say there's other such differences between people who lose a lot of weight to get to a certain number and people who never were obese to begin with and are at that weight. I was just wondering if blood sugar was one of those differences.
Yeah, I've seen how "flexible" the definition of a Mediterranean diet is, especially when looking for decent cook books! When I say Mediterranean, I'm probably going more toward the higher carb/higher fat version - I'm using real butter and olive oil (sparingly though due to calorie content) and eat fatty fish like salmon, chicken, some pork and beef, and try for whole grains and vegetables. I'll have potatoes once in a while for variety - basically, I'm shooting for a variety of whole foods and trying to get further away from quick meals and eating out all the time. Some things I naturally cut down on just because of the calorie counts - potatoes, for one, pastas, cheeses,trading cream dressings for vinaigrettes, etc - though I haven't cut those items completely; I just try to eat them in moderation to keep my calorie counts down.
I'm set for 1400 calories, but I think I'm routinely getting 1500 in a day. I haven't seen much of a drop since the diet break ended 2 weeks ago; I ended at 280.9 lb and have made it to 278,7 lbs after 2 weeks, but TOM is just around the corner, and I'm still spending most evenings painting the house.
Hmm. I go and look at the report for my fats/protein/carbs intake for the last 30 days, and apparently, I'm eating more fat than I thought I was - according to the chart, I've been eating over my fat goal pretty consistently. Carbs are balancing out surprisingly not that far above goal; of course, protein gets close but I rarely actually go over that goal, so I guess I really am eating a more high fat/high carb diet. Which leaves me a little confused, because my HDL has been flat and has not increased.
Ah well - thank you for the explanations! I had definitely not expected the increases and was rather surprised by it initially!3 -
... I need approval to post?
nvm.. past 2 replies just went straight to hell.
There are certain phrases and number combinations that will get caught in the spam filter. It's because the spam filter has to use phrase to eliminate the literal crap tons of spam. So when it gets caught, don't freak. Mods review and approve them regularly.6 -
You look fab in that dress, Nony!5
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... I need approval to post?
nvm.. past 2 replies just went straight to hell.
There are certain phrases and number combinations that will get caught in the spam filter. It's because the spam filter has to use phrase to eliminate the literal crap tons of spam. So when it gets caught, don't freak. Mods review and approve them regularly.
haha, I will retract my comment about the filter then
To be fair, I haven't seen any of the voodoo witchdoctor ones with the phone numbers in a long time (touch wood, anti jinx). 1
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