Of refeeds and diet breaks

Options
1…8283858788…221

Replies

  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Options
    maybyn wrote: »
    @nexangelus, sounds as if you're using a really good and methodological approach trying to get a right number for your surplus . Getting it right is tricky, isn't it?

    @Nony_Mouse, never watched Pulp Fiction but that pic looks good.
    purplebobkat wrote: »
    This thread has helped me decide to partake in a diet break. I started on Saturday & plan to do a full 2 weeks.

    I actually had some anxiety about 'breaking my diet' and upping my cals to maintenance for the first couple of days, but you guys have helped me cope with that.

    The fun bit is that tomorrow I'm off to Vienna for 8 days. Ive just plugged my expected 8 hours of walking around into MFP and to eat at maintanance means i get 4500 cals a day!!! So bring on the beer and chocolate cake!!

    Have a great time in Vienna!

    4500 cals sounds a lot for maintenance with walking though. Is the MFP caculator accurate? Anyhow, I'm totally envious about Vienna AND the 4500 cal TDEE.

    Really depends on weight. I can get 30'000 steps a day on holiday and for at 160lbs give or take would be at least 1200 calories.
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    Options
    Nice and thanks for clarifying, both.

    Totally agree with your diet break while at Vienna. It's 8 days so make the most out of it!
  • maybyn
    maybyn Posts: 233 Member
    edited November 2017
    Options
    A question I've been wanting to ask for sometime now after reading so many posts in the forums about it and since we've been discussing TDEEs here (and since no question is off topic...)

    When using online TDEE calculators, how can someone say that the calculator is over or under-estimating their maintenance calories when it all depends on the activity factor? Eg, I can plug in my numbers and select the activity level I think most appropriate (sports 6-7 days) and it still falls way short of my actual TDEE.

    Isn't this because my activity level factor is not 1.75 but rather something north of 2.0? So it's not under-estimating but just not the correct activity level factor because although I do sports everyday, I might do a lot of other things as well (shopping, taking care of kids, house chores etc) which the calculators don't take into account?

    So I guess it puzzles me when there are threads about TDEE estimates using online calcs and posts about maintaining below or above what they're given.
  • PAV8888
    PAV8888 Posts: 13,594 Member
    edited November 2017
    Options
    maybyn wrote: »
    I can plug in my numbers and select the activity level I think most appropriate (sports 6-7 days) and it still falls way short of my actual TDEE.
    Isn't this because my activity level factor is not 1.75 but rather something north of 2.0? So it's not under-estimating but just not the correct activity level factor because although I do sports everyday, I might do a lot of other things as well (shopping, taking care of kids, house chores etc) which the calculators don't take into account?

    It could be that your activity factor is not correct because your NEAT is higher.
    It could be that your activity factor is not correct because what exactly does "sports 6-7 days" mean? I shoot hoops for 10 minutes a day from the free throw line. You swim competitively for 3 hours every day and go for a bike ride on the weekend.
    It could be that your activity factor is not correct because your BMR is not right at the mean but one or two standard deviations to the right or the left. Then, if you multiple that by your activity factor... well, that's a snickers bar or two for the same level of activity between lucky eat-a-lot and saves-on-groceries.

    So the calculators come up with an estimate. And we tend to either be above, below, or near the estimate. Most calculators (or I should say ESTIMATORS) use fairly known formulas and disclose their activity factors.

    For a quick listing of formulas and the activity factors used you can look at the discussion at the bottom of Scooby's Accurate Calorie Calculator.

    MFP starts with an activity factor of 1.25, 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 corresponding to sedentary, lightly active, active, and very active and expects people to manually enter the exercise that takes them above these settings.

    Activity trackers such as the Fitbit assume a 1.0 activity factor and add the activity they detect (in the case of Fitbit, I believe that they base it on the average MET value they've detected over each 5 minute period)
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 2,981 Member
    Options
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    .. Protein shakes are your friend here - low cal (I'm always perplexed when people say they're high cal, mine made with water ( :s ) is under 100 cal for 20g of protein, with milk it's around 200 cal, and the milk I use bumps the protein to 34g.

    just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.
  • livingleanlivingclean
    livingleanlivingclean Posts: 11,752 Member
    edited November 2017
    Options
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    .. Protein shakes are your friend here - low cal (I'm always perplexed when people say they're high cal, mine made with water ( :s ) is under 100 cal for 20g of protein, with milk it's around 200 cal, and the milk I use bumps the protein to 34g.

    just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.

    I use WPI, most have minimal fat and carbs...or a hydrolyzed collagen, which is the same. You don't have to use a whole serve, the scoops aren't generally accurate anyway!
  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
    Options
    VintageFeline wrote: »
    People have a tendency to think in absolutes and that the calculators should be predicting their TDEE with 100% accuracy. We often see people who have been logging for a while asking if they should use their Fitbit or a calculator without even thinking about the fact they have data to work with and should use that. We have become over reliant on technology I think.

    .

    I think this is very important to think about!

    Usually the TDEE calculators have been too low for my actual healthy intake, a happy surprise after years of calculating.
    So as long as Im doing this diet break experiment I feel like I might even be able to take maintenance calories a bit higher.
    Also I feel like Im finding my happy weight. Not my mirror expectation, but about 5 pounds higher. So now I am contemplating seeing how diet breaks and keeping the happy weight, enjoying life, feeling less depressed and more energy for more activity might be the life I really want. I think being strong and happy is more my goal now.

    Love this topic and all the suggestions, experiences and followers.

  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,081 Member
    Options
    bmeadows380 wrote: »
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »

    just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.

    I am a myprotein whey fan - 98 cals and
    21g protein per 25g. I did do one day of pure liquid protein during maintenance. It was very flatulent to say the least!
  • collectingblues
    collectingblues Posts: 2,541 Member
    Options
    Still stable this morning. Reminding myself that it's Fun Anovulatory Cycle time, and thus what is "stable" at the moment -- actually, down two pounds from last week -- may actually be a good sign, once the cycle water weight comes off.

    But, also more hopeful. After reviewing the labs, and my concerns about the "this may be in normal range, but it's higher than I've ever been" TSH level, my endo agreed to up the Synthroid dosing again. I in turn went back through my records, and saw that the last time things were acting as truly predicted, I was at a much higher dose (well, higher to what he just re-upped me to). There's a decent amount of literature that correlates EDs and calorie restriction with suppressed TSH, so I sent those articles to him/his clinic nurse, and asked if he'd be willing to do a trial back at that higher dose, and see if things normalize out, and then re-evaluate. Considering that he agreed to do the initial boost, I figured the worse he could do now is say no.
  • piperdown44
    piperdown44 Posts: 958 Member
    Options
    Nony_Mouse wrote: »
    heybales wrote: »
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    I might have been slightly exaggerating, I can walk, it's just awkward and people have asked if I'm okay lol
    I don't feel like I am doing that much, at least compared to the amount of soreness I am feeling. I'm still working on protein.

    The other factors affecting recovery besides calorie level and protein.

    Sleep and vitamins/minerals.
    If not much repair during the sleep, more feeling it the next day because more damage left over.

    Also how new the workout is to you, and time since last doing it.
    Many times waiting too long, you'll get just as sore. More frequent, not as bad.

    But the amino acids for muscle repair, and a chance for the body to do it - are huge.

    That's why some protein 30 min before bed showed improvement in recovery in a few studies. And this was endurance cardio, so while different type of damage, not the same level.

    Thank you for justifying my bedtime shake :)

    And my 8 ounces of New York strip steak 45 mins before bed B)

  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited November 2017
    Options
    I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.

    No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Options
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.

    No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.

    A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?
  • nexangelus
    nexangelus Posts: 2,081 Member
    Options

    maybyn wrote: »
    @nexangelus, sounds as if you're using a really good and methodological approach trying to get a right number for your surplus . Getting it right is tricky, isn't it?

    I reckon my surplus should be around 2990 or so but we will see....


  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    Options
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.

    No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.

    A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?

    That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill :p

    I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.

    This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.

    I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.

    Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.

    I think we all have that voice that struggles with the scale. It helps to cultivate the voice of reason to balance it, as you have. My behaviors when not focused involve the overeating part without the over restriction part! Lol
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    Options
    mmapags wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.

    No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.

    A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?

    That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill :p

    I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.

    This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.

    I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.

    Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.

    I think we all have that voice that struggles with the scale. It helps to cultivate the voice of reason to balance it, as you have. My behaviors when not focused involve the overeating part without the over restriction part! Lol

    Overeating comes naturally to Italians, paesan. ;)
  • dancefit2015
    dancefit2015 Posts: 236 Member
    Options
    PAV8888 wrote: »
    dancefit2015 wrote: »
    Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
    It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
    As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
    Thank you so much for your advice!

    Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?

    My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
    Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
    Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?

Categories