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What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?
Replies
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WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google)
I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Eh. Only if you frame "giving up" as something bad. I've given up on a lot of things over the years. I'm not trying to become an astronaut or a ballerina. Giving up on those dreams allows me to spend my time and energy in other ways, working toward goals that are reachable. Community theater. Portuguese. Tap dance.3 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
LOL. I don't either. Especially since I'm in agreement with everything you just said. (With exception to the word empathy. I think sympathy is more applicable)
Right. I feel bad (sympathy) when I would see someone who could not run, jump etc. It turned into empathy (experiencing the feelings of others) when I tore my acl in my knee and could not run, jump etc...
Now that I am recovered, I feel a great sense of gratitude for my working knee again...3 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
If I really want to be a professional hockey player, and as a 44 yr old woman I accept that that would be impossible, I could just give up. But if instead I decide my goal is just to become a good hockey player, so I take skating lessons and join an amateur women's league and continue playing and improving for the rest of my life, how is that giving up? I think having realistic goals is way more motivating than aspirational way-out-there goals that may very well keep you banging into a brick wall. I'm sure that's different for different people.
I'm going to have to plead ignorance about women's hockey here. Is there a way to move from an amateur women's league to a professional one? If there is, then you didn't accept that it was impossible because you've been working hard to achieve that goal. If there isn't, then yes, you gave up on being a professional hockey player but you're doing well in another league.
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I don't really now what's gong on in this thread, but to answer the OP...I haven't heard that phrase since I was a kid. which is where I would think such a phrase would be more applicable...obviously, you grow up and as you grow up you realize you have certain limitations, whatever those may be.
I just tell my kids that if they're doing their best, then they're doing it right.5 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
If I really want to be a professional hockey player, and as a 44 yr old woman I accept that that would be impossible, I could just give up. But if instead I decide my goal is just to become a good hockey player, so I take skating lessons and join an amateur women's league and continue playing and improving for the rest of my life, how is that giving up? I think having realistic goals is way more motivating than aspirational way-out-there goals that may very well keep you banging into a brick wall. I'm sure that's different for different people.
I'm going to have to plead ignorance about women's hockey here. Is it possible to move from an amateur women's league to a professional one? If it is, then you didn't accept that it was impossible because you've been working hard to achieve that goal. If it's not possible, then yes, you gave up on being a professional hockey player but you're doing well in another league.
You and I clearly have very different ways of looking at the world, so I think I'm just going to leave it at that. :drinker:2 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
If I really want to be a professional hockey player, and as a 44 yr old woman I accept that that would be impossible, I could just give up. But if instead I decide my goal is just to become a good hockey player, so I take skating lessons and join an amateur women's league and continue playing and improving for the rest of my life, how is that giving up? I think having realistic goals is way more motivating than aspirational way-out-there goals that may very well keep you banging into a brick wall. I'm sure that's different for different people.
I'm going to have to plead ignorance about women's hockey here. Is it possible to move from an amateur women's league to a professional one? If it is, then you didn't accept that it was impossible because you've been working hard to achieve that goal. If it's not possible, then yes, you gave up on being a professional hockey player but you're doing well in another league.
You and I clearly have very different ways of looking at the world, so I think I'm just going to leave it at that. :drinker:
Haha. Deal 1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I don't really now what's gong on in this thread, but to answer the OP...I haven't heard that phrase since I was a kid. which is where I would think such a phrase would be more applicable...obviously, you grow up and as you grow up you realize you have certain limitations, whatever those may be.
I just tell my kids that if they're doing their best, then they're doing it right.
Bravo!1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
Me too.
I think it's impossible that I will ever win the Boston Marathon. But I still think it would be fun to run it, and I plan to work to qualify for it (and the qualifying time gets slower as one ages, so I have that going for me). That I accept that some things are impossible (I'm not going to win it), does not mean I have given up or have nothing to work for.
My mother is 75, chronically ill, has had mobility problems for a while and is now recovering from a broken hip. I'm sure she believes that running any marathon is not possible for her, and I suspect that's true. But she CAN work at walking again, or using a walker, or whatever seems realistic now (and goals can be adjusted or added as some are achieved).
I don't get the idea that we must pretend there are no limits to be able to achieve things.3 -
Re sympathy vs. empathy. I see sympathy as feeling bad for someone, and empathy as trying to put yourself in their place, imagine what it's like to be them. I don't share the physical limitations that my mother does, but I have talked to her about how she feels and can try to think about what it would be like to have those limitations. That's not, IMO, mere sympathy, but empathy, which I think is more helpful. (I really dislike thinking someone feels sorry for me for something I'm struggling with (for a loved one dying or something would be different), and that's not what I'm talking about.)1
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lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
Me too.
I think it's impossible that I will ever win the Boston Marathon. But I still think it would be fun to run it, and I plan to work to qualify for it (and the qualifying time gets slower as one ages, so I have that going for me). That I accept that some things are impossible (I'm not going to win it), does not mean I have given up or have nothing to work for.
My mother is 75, chronically ill, has had mobility problems for a while and is now recovering from a broken hip. I'm sure she believes that running any marathon is not possible for her, and I suspect that's true. But she CAN work at walking again, or using a walker, or whatever seems realistic now (and goals can be adjusted or added as some are achieved).
I don't get the idea that we must pretend there are no limits to be able to achieve things.
Well let's dive in. Do you honestly want to win the Boston Marathon? If it was something that you've always wanted to do and it was your passion, you probably would have been training your butt off zealously for a very long time.
Perhaps the saying needs to have a PS "Nothing is impossible if you work hard enough... but your windows of opportunity will shrink drastically and rapidly and you may have a much harder time than others"
It's pretty common to misuse the various levels of compassion:
Pity- I feel sorry for you
Sympathy- I understand pain
Empathy - I feel your pain5 -
One of the writing prompts I assign my sophomores is "Failure." It asks them to reflect on and write about giving up:
Some people say that you should never give up. Others disagree. How do you decide whether to keep trying or stop? Explain, with examples from history, your own experience, and the literature we have studied.
1 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
Me too.
I think it's impossible that I will ever win the Boston Marathon. But I still think it would be fun to run it, and I plan to work to qualify for it (and the qualifying time gets slower as one ages, so I have that going for me). That I accept that some things are impossible (I'm not going to win it), does not mean I have given up or have nothing to work for.
My mother is 75, chronically ill, has had mobility problems for a while and is now recovering from a broken hip. I'm sure she believes that running any marathon is not possible for her, and I suspect that's true. But she CAN work at walking again, or using a walker, or whatever seems realistic now (and goals can be adjusted or added as some are achieved).
I don't get the idea that we must pretend there are no limits to be able to achieve things.
Well let's dive in. Do you honestly want to win the Boston Marathon? If it was something that you've always wanted to do and it was your passion, you probably would have been training your butt off zealously for a very long time.
No, I don't really, but that doesn't mean it would be possible if I decided I really did. I don't think recognizing that there are limits means you are giving up. There are other goals and trade offs, as I said way, way upthread.It's pretty common to misuse the various levels of compassion:
Pity- I feel sorry for you
Sympathy- I understand pain
Empathy - I feel your pain
Yes, that's how I was using empathy, basically. As OED says: "empathy: the power of projecting one's personality into (and so fully comprehending) the object of contemplation." Perhaps impossible, but can be worth trying -- walking in someone else's shoes or imagining yourself in them. OED has "fellow feeling" or "being affected by the feelings of other" for sympathy. I don't mean the latter. When I say recognize that you (meaning all of us) have some blessings that not everyone shares, I don't mean "and then feel bad for them" or even "understand how they feel." I mean be aware of those differences and how they might be experiencing things, how they might not find things as easy as you do, or have certain basic knowledge you do. It's about being aware that not everyone is the same and not just thinking "I did it, if someone else didn't, they obviously didn't try hard enough."
But whatever, if you get my point I don't care if we want to use different words. (Same with the "it's not privilege, it's whatever" argument.)0 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
One man's giving up and quitting is another man's accepting reality.
Is this still about pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and achieving anything, or is this now a pissing contest to see who can fool themselves into believing the hardest?
I'm a realist. You're not. If a cure becomes available, I'll adjust my expectations. Until then, what you said about a potential cure has nothing to do with what I'm capable and not capable of doing within my current situation and limits, which was the original topic of conversation. Individual effort and all that.
4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.4 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
No, I didn't hear that from a doctor. I told her I wanted to start a graded exercise program and to hopefully be able to walk without the cane. She was encouraging. Progress was slow but steady.
She didn't want me to run when I weighed more because it was too much pressure on my joints. She was fine with it once I lost weight.
My doctor is the one who has done the mobility assessment with me regarding the issues I've had with certain lifts in weight lifting (and crochet, oddly enough).
We tried cortisone injections. They didn't help.0 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'
There are an awful lot of other privileges, the lack of which can make achieving the promise of this phrase logistically improbable.
Besides the fact that the bolded are not privileges...
Depends on who you ask.
No...
Yeah, it does. Many people assert that the ability/willingness to hustle and keep at something are a sign of privilege.
Whoa, this blows my mind. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but how is not being a lazy quitter a privilege?
There's a big yawning gulf of a spectrum between being a lazy quitter and being a dedicated hustler.
At some places on that spectrum, things like physical and mental disabilities can impact one's ability and or willingness to hustle. Not having such a physical or mental impairment is privilege.
Respectfully disagree. The absence of disabilities should not be viewed as privilege, unless we're using a really loose definition of privilege where a vast majority of people qualify.
All this talk of privilege is getting old. So people have some advantages that others don't. That's life. A lot of us weren't born with silver spoons in our mouths, but that doesn't hold us back from success or reaching our goals. Seems like more of an excuse than an explanation.
As for the phrase in question, is it really so bad to offer up optimistic hope when people really can do things they think are impossible? Perhaps people really just don't want to see the flip-side of the coin, that if they don't reach their goals it's their own fault.
You just don't like the word privilege. Advantage is a synonym for privilege.priv·i·lege
ˈpriv(ə)lij/Submit
noun
1.
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people.
"education is a right, not a privilege"
synonyms: advantage, benefit; More
Illness is not an excuse, and I'm not making one. How you thought I was when I said I overcame walking with a cane to becoming a runner is beyond me.
However, I have limitations. That's a fact of my illness because it's trashed my joints to a certain point.
Someone with untrashed joints has advantages I don't have, and that's fine, and I don't have issue with that.
All I'm saying that means is that there are things that all the striving and wanting and thirsting and being hungry to do... I'll never be able to do them. There are limits. My limits fall short of where someone who doesn't have my disease's limits are.
Not being diseased is an advantage I don't have in the "nothing is impossible" game.
This is why I think the statement is too pat. Yes, some things are impossible for some people. That doesn't mean that I don't think I shouldn't go to my limits and just give up. I certainly didn't give up when I was walking with a cane. I fought back like hell.
So don't write me off as an excuse maker. I'm just a realist.
I was actually using the very same definition for privilege (thank you Google) I see you're focusing on the word "advantage." I was focusing on "special right" and "available only to a particular person or group."
I'm fairly sure I wasn't saying that you, specifically, were making excuses. Honestly the thought didn't cross my mind, so I'm sorry if I was sloppy in my communication.
If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up. Maybe the cure for what ails you hasn't been discovered yet and won't be in our lifetime. But maybe it will.
I'm going to assume you didn't mean it as such, but the bolded is an incredibly cold thing to say to someone who just described how hard they have already worked to overcome a physical limitation.
Acknowledging your limitations and working hard to reach more appropriate goals is a far cry from giving up.
Cold perhaps, but is it untrue? Don't get me wrong, I think it's phenomenal that she went from walking with a cane to being a runner. I wonder if she ever heard from the doc that she wouldn't be able to do that. If she did, she clearly didn't accept that.
Yes, I think it is literally untrue that accepting something is impossible means you've essentially given up.
If I really want to be a professional hockey player, and as a 44 yr old woman I accept that that would be impossible, I could just give up. But if instead I decide my goal is just to become a good hockey player, so I take skating lessons and join an amateur women's league and continue playing and improving for the rest of my life, how is that giving up? I think having realistic goals is way more motivating than aspirational way-out-there goals that may very well keep you banging into a brick wall. I'm sure that's different for different people.
Spot on. This is what I've been trying to say when I've said I'm a realist.
The examples I've given is that I'll never be able to do ATG squats for example.
What I haven't shared here is how hard I've been working for 3 years to get my squat to parallel and to not have my knees cave in and how I'm finally there.
That was a realistic goal given my mobility issues. ATG squats weren't.
Here's another lifting related goal thingy: lifting heavy gives me exertional migraines. (I suffer chronic migraines anyway, so it's just a trigger I have to accept.) I have tried. Goodness knows, I've tried. I just do not get on with it. So, I lift moderate weights in the 8-12 rep range.
Am I giving up? Nope. I'm setting realistic goals and making progress with them. I am doing my personal best.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.
I guess I'm a lazy butted quitter because I haven't regrown my colon yet since nothing is impossible5 -
singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.
I guess I'm a lazy butted quitter because I haven't regrown my colon yet since nothing is impossible
Who knows, maybe someday, they'll come up with artificial colons. You're just a quitter because you've given up hope!!!!!!!
(Am I doing the sarcasm font correctly?)1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.
I guess I'm a lazy butted quitter because I haven't regrown my colon yet since nothing is impossible
Who knows, maybe someday, they'll come up with artificial colons. You're just a quitter because you've given up hope!!!!!!!
(Am I doing the sarcasm font correctly?)
Lol it would be of no use unless they find a cure for crohn's first as it's autoimmune and would attack a new colon.0 -
Spunk is great. Is it failure if high ambition is brought low by reality? Aiming high means you still end up better off than if you did nothing. Frankly, I think we learn a great deal more from our failures.
https://www.ted.com/talks/viktor_frankl_youth_in_search_of_meaning
Michael J. Fox has Parkinson's. He has spunk. He's not expecting to have a cure in his lifetime, but he did the next best thing. He started a foundation and acquired all sorts of funding to find a cure.4 -
singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.
I guess I'm a lazy butted quitter because I haven't regrown my colon yet since nothing is impossible
Who knows, maybe someday, they'll come up with artificial colons. You're just a quitter because you've given up hope!!!!!!!
(Am I doing the sarcasm font correctly?)
Lol it would be of no use unless they find a cure for crohn's first as it's autoimmune and would attack a new colon.
Geez, you're such a quitter. Try harder!
3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »What I don't agree with is the flagrant use of the term privilege. Are people who can walk supposed to feel like jerks because they have something that not everybody does? Should I feel resentful because I wasn't born with a trust fund?
If I acknowledge that I have some privileges that not everyone has (health being one) and have been lucky in some ways (if you prefer to call it that), that doesn't mean I'm calling myself a jerk or expecting others to feel resentful. You are sure imposing a lot on one word. It also does not mean that I think I haven't faced some hardships that not everyone has or had some struggles or had to work hard.
I think acknowledging and being grateful for the blessings I have (which, yes, can be called privileges) is basic human decency, and understanding that not everyone shares in them is basic empathy. Insisting that because you did something everyone obviously could if they weren't a lazy so and so seems to be the alternative.
I honestly don't even get what is currently being debated on this thread anymore.
^This.
The latest introduction of the argument that I'm just a lazy butted quitter for not holding out for a cure for my disease has me sitting her with my mouth agape.
I guess I'm a lazy butted quitter because I haven't regrown my colon yet since nothing is impossible
Who knows, maybe someday, they'll come up with artificial colons. You're just a quitter because you've given up hope!!!!!!!
(Am I doing the sarcasm font correctly?)
Lol it would be of no use unless they find a cure for crohn's first as it's autoimmune and would attack a new colon.
Funny thing that, my problem is autoimmune as well. I guess we're both just lazy quitters.1 -
Whoa, I never called anyone a lazy quitter. If someone took personal offense to that comment in the context it was used, that's telling for them.
The phrase isn't "Nothing is impossible if you want it hard enough."
I'm not disputing that some things are no longer possible for individuals. But it's likely they were or could have been, if the effort was truly made.3 -
See, that still comes across as "quitter". If the effort was TRULY made?
How about the astronaut program where hundreds apply and only a few make it to space? Did the rest just not try HARD enough? I contend that ALL the candidates in the astronaut program are worthy and gave their best. It just so happens that a FEW will make it to space, but ALL of them will make worthy contributions.
I'm a huge fan of Chris Hadfield and he has a great book about success. I'm not against shooting for high goals. But many of life's consequences are out of our control.
We had one Superman in a wheelchair because of a riding accident. Did he just not TRULY, TRY hard enough?3 -
See, that still comes across as "quitter". If the effort was TRULY made?
How about the astronaut program where hundreds apply and only a few make it to space? Did the rest just not try HARD enough? I contend that ALL the candidates in the astronaut program are worthy and gave their best. It just so happens that a FEW will make it to space, but ALL of them will make worthy contributions.
I'm a huge fan of Chris Hadfield and he has a great book about success. I'm not against shooting for high goals. But many of life's consequences are out of our control.
We had one Superman in a wheelchair because of a riding accident. Did he just not TRULY, TRY hard enough?
I don't think it comes off as "quitter" it just comes off as "no, they didn't try hard enough." I'm sure they all worked hard, but some obviously worked harder (and probably smarter) than others.
Not sure where you're going with the Chris Reeves comment.3 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »See, that still comes across as "quitter". If the effort was TRULY made?
How about the astronaut program where hundreds apply and only a few make it to space? Did the rest just not try HARD enough? I contend that ALL the candidates in the astronaut program are worthy and gave their best. It just so happens that a FEW will make it to space, but ALL of them will make worthy contributions.
I'm a huge fan of Chris Hadfield and he has a great book about success. I'm not against shooting for high goals. But many of life's consequences are out of our control.
We had one Superman in a wheelchair because of a riding accident. Did he just not TRULY, TRY hard enough?
I don't think it comes off as "quitter" it just comes off as "no, they didn't try hard enough." I'm sure they all worked hard, but some obviously worked harder (and probably smarter) than others.
Not sure where you're going with the Chris Reeves comment.
You've got a lot to learn, grasshopper.3 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up.
this isn't true. but you seem to have an extraordinarily binary kind of mindset, at least about specific things. so i'm not sure if i'm wasting my time even getting interested in this particular facet of the discussion.
i guess the nuance you seem unwilling to accept is: people can accept a specific outcome as impossible, but not necessarily give up on the activity. i guess you don't see it that way, but people have provided whole strings of real-life examples which to me illustrate there's a great deal of variance from your absolute rule quite nicely. basically: the entire world is not you. and that's why conversations are usually more productive than 'debates' and attempts to reduce everything to one single absolute 'truth'.
you can actually quite safely allow people to be contemptuous of the rah-rah-rah thing. or even to just find it irrelevant. for people who do have their own internal motivations it's genuinely unnecessary. so there's absolutely no reason to fear the entire human species will go to hell in a handbasket unless they're deluded and lied to in order to keep them all 'motivated'.
that's probably where my own pushback centres, actually. i think you said something about 'but if we don't lie to people about what is possible, they'll never do anything' and that's just inherently insulting to someone who does stuff for their own reasons and sets their own internal standards all on their own.5 -
Not heard that before but i like itlemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
How about "Try the impossible, you might just succeed."
I've always been a fan of: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
Yeah, that's a good one.
Another thing I always say to my son, "practice makes progress..."
I use practice makes perfect. I say this to my daughter all the time
2 -
canadianlbs wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »If you've already accepted something as impossible, you've essentially given up.
this isn't true. but you seem to have an extraordinarily binary kind of mindset, at least about specific things. so i'm not sure if i'm wasting my time even getting interested in this particular facet of the discussion.
i guess the nuance you seem unwilling to accept is: people can accept a specific outcome as impossible, but not necessarily give up on the activity. i guess you don't see it that way, but people have provided whole strings of real-life examples which to me illustrate there's a great deal of variance from your absolute rule quite nicely. basically: the entire world is not you. and that's why conversations are usually more productive than 'debates' and attempts to reduce everything to one single absolute 'truth'.
you can actually quite safely allow people to be contemptuous of the rah-rah-rah thing. or even to just find it irrelevant. for people who do have their own internal motivations it's genuinely unnecessary. so there's absolutely no reason to fear the entire human species will go to hell in a handbasket unless they're deluded and lied to in order to keep them all 'motivated'.
that's probably where my own pushback centres, actually. i think you said something about 'but if we don't lie to people about what is possible, they'll never do anything' and that's just inherently insulting to someone who does stuff for their own reasons and sets their own internal standards all on their own.
Oh c'mon, that's just hurtful implying that you're wasting time getting interested in this particular facet of the discussion. You don't give yourself enough credit, either.
I do understand the nuance you discussed, but 'bench-pressing 300lbs' and 'being really good at pressing 185' are different things. I don't want to seem like I'm disregarding the effort people are putting forth, but I'm also doubtful that many actually put in the kind of single-minded tenacity, focus, zealotry, and sacrifice that can be required to meet the definition of "hard enough."
I don't think I quite understand the rest of your comment (it's early and I'm still drinking my coffee). I'm not sure if anyone is trying to use the common saying to control the masses or anything. I fully agree that people have their own motivations, to the point that I believe that true motivation can ONLY come from within.
I certainly didn't say that we should lie to people. What would be the point of that? If John Doe in Nebraska doesn't strive to reach his goals, that's no skin off my back.5 -
Therealobi1 wrote: »
Not heard that before but i like itlemurcat12 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I don't think "try your hardest and never give up" is sufficient. Just imagine all of the remarkable technologies and discoveries that wouldn't have had a chance if everyone was so defeatist.
How about "Try the impossible, you might just succeed."
I've always been a fan of: "Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
Yeah, that's a good one.
Another thing I always say to my son, "practice makes progress..."
I use practice makes perfect. I say this to my daughter all the time
The older I get the more I believe there is no such thing as perfect. That said, we can more often then not make progress. I also tell him, "never let perfect get in the way of really good..."
3
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