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What do you think about impact of the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' ?

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Replies

  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    shaumom wrote: »
    1. As the phrase 'nothing is impossible if you work hard enough' is not literally true (we wouldn't tell someone who is blind that they could see if they worked hard enough, for example), what do you assume the 'real' meaning of this phrase usually is? And I'd use this for variations of this idea, too - 'you can do anything if you put your mind to it,' 'all you need is hard work in order to succeed in life,' and so on.

    So...what does this phrase mean to you?


    2. When you hear phrases like this used, is the general tone positive or negative, or somewhere in between?

    Like, positive might be encouraging someone who is feeling like they will never meet their health goals, and reminding them that they are working hard so they are going to see results. Negative might be shaming someone who hadn't met their goals, implying that they would be doing better if they had been working harder.

    3. Based on how you hear it being used most often, do you think this phrase promotes a certain type of attitude among people who exercise, and if so, is it a good one?

    With apologies to OP: I think - despite all the ensuing discussion (or because of it? ;) ) - that these are not very useful questions.

    Any phrase, including cliches or platitudes, has meaning in a context. Context includes who's saying it, to whom, in what tone of voice, embedded among what other words and ideas, and more. Absent that, such a phrase is a meaningless abstraction. Without a context, it doesn't communicate - I think this last is particularly the case for cliches or platitudes.

    Much of the ensuing discussion involves folks assuming a context, then debating bits of those assumptions.

    I think this might be a good place to drop something some of you have seen here before, a quote I hand-lettered into my visual journal (and which will sadly probably show up as a link rather than an inline image because I'm having trouble with that lately (sigh)).

    jbj51tqhq5s6.jpg

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,028 Member
    edited October 2017
    Whoa, I never called anyone a lazy quitter. If someone took personal offense to that comment in the context it was used, that's telling for them.

    The phrase isn't "Nothing is impossible if you want it hard enough."

    I'm not disputing that some things are no longer possible for individuals. But it's likely they were or could have been, if the effort was truly made.
    Okay, so do you think Daniel Ruetigger could have been a professional NFL player if he worked harder than he already did to just make an "appearance" on the Notre Dame football team?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    J72FIT wrote: »
    Wow, I did not expect to be in the minority on this one. That's a perfectly positive phrase and I've found it to be mostly true. The other variant I've heard once was "If someone REALLY wants to do something, that person is going to do it REALLY well." I'm not sure if intelligence, dedication, and strong work ethic counts as 'privilege.'

    You look young and healthy.

    That might be why you think anything is possible.

    That's also a privileged position, whether you realize it or not.

    No matter how badly I want it, or how hard I work, I'll never be able to lunge to full depth or squat ATG, for example. I'm older with two forms of arthritis, and my joints will only take me so far.

    Now I have gone from walking with a cane to running, so while *that* was possible, I don't think ANYTHING is possible. In fact, I know it isn't.

    Mind you, I'm not pulling some victimized thing here. I just know that I have limits due to a medical condition. That's facing reality. I'm not bitter or anything like that.

    I just don't like trite, pat little sayings like this. There are lots of things people face. I think the important thing is to do your best, whatever your circumstances are. I may not be able to do everything, but I'm doing far more than I ever thought I could, and I think that's pretty damned awesome enough.

    Indeed. We don't have control over a great many things. Winning, losing, genetic, medical conditions etc. What we do have control over is the effort we put forth in achieving our goals, whatever they may be. As long as you give it your absolute best (and deep down we know wether or not we do) you can hold your head up high and be content with who you are at this moment...

    This is a really good perspective.

    I like the Steve Prefontaine quote, " To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice the gift."
  • canadianlbs
    canadianlbs Posts: 5,199 Member
    Oh c'mon, that's just hurtful implying that you're wasting time getting interested in this particular facet of the discussion.

    nah. i just don't want to get dragged sideways into the whole morass of testimony-and-dismissal. ime, it's a power-trip on one side and a huge emo-drain on the other, and i do think it's a waste of time.
    'bench-pressing 300lbs' and 'being really good at pressing 185' are different things.

    absolutely. if there was a point in here though, i've lost track of it.
    I don't want to seem like I'm disregarding the effort people are putting forth

    that is exactly the way that you seem. deal with that info or keep putting all the responsibility for it back onto the hearers; that's up to you. it is still exactly the way that you seem.
    but I'm also doubtful that many actually put in the kind of single-minded tenacity, focus, zealotry, and sacrifice that can be required to meet the definition of "hard enough."

    actually, the message i got was that you were defining 'hard enough' entirely by the outcome, not by intangibles. 'if they didn't get to [impossible], yes i would say they did not get there because they did not work hard enough.' that's a paraphrase, but i think it's a fair one.

    i'm not sure if you just won't accept that people can and do break their hearts in pursuit of things that are just never going to happen, or if you feel like the heartbreak is justified because they would never have done anything at all without that mistaken belief . . . or if you feel like it's perfectly fair because if they had just broken their hearts a little bit harder than that it all would have worked out.
    I'm not sure if anyone is trying to use the common saying to control the masses or anything.

    i think this was a reference to the various people (not just you, but definitely including you) who seem sincerfely to think the original cliche is necessary in order for anyone to achieve anything. 'sure it's untrue if you take it literally, but we should still push it because if people admit/realise they can't X they've already just given up.' that kind of thing.
    to the point that I believe that true motivation can ONLY come from within.

    fair enough. maybe the dichotomy is between people like me who find realism a strong basis for any motivation and people like you who almost seem ideologically threatened by the idea.
    If John Doe in Nebraska doesn't strive to reach his goals, that's no skin off my back.

    lol. yeah, except you'd like to think john doe doesn't have any goals and john doe will never achieve much in life unless he approaches his life like you do.
  • WorkerDrone83
    WorkerDrone83 Posts: 3,195 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    Whoa, I never called anyone a lazy quitter. If someone took personal offense to that comment in the context it was used, that's telling for them.

    The phrase isn't "Nothing is impossible if you want it hard enough."

    I'm not disputing that some things are no longer possible for individuals. But it's likely they were or could have been, if the effort was truly made.
    Okay, so do you think Daniel Ruetigger could have been a professional NFL player if he worked harder than he already did to just make an "appearance" on the Notre Dame football team?

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png


    Lol. Rudy!
    I don't know anything about Rudy other than that he was a hobbit. Did he want to be an NFL player? It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I thought it was just his dream to play for Notre Dame, which he did.
  • shaumom
    shaumom Posts: 1,003 Member
    Hard enough IS defined by the outcome. That's pretty much the entire purpose of the word 'enough' being there.

    That is an interesting take on that phrase, partly because I am sure you don't mean that quite literally, in all ways, yes? If I fall from a building, the fact that I don't start flying is not because I didn't try hard 'enough.' No one is going to expect, ever. I am not breathing underwater like a fish because I can't, not because I didn't try hard enough, yes?

    If someone SAID that I fell to my death because I didn't try hard enough to fly, that would be ridiculous. And I don't think anyone, including you, would be using the phrase in that context. We all know that expecting effort alone to change such a basic, currently-unchangeable, part of reality would not work, and we don't look down on someone for being unable to change this part of reality, I don't think.

    So the real crux seems to be what, exactly, defines when enough effort makes a difference, and when it will not? Where is that line, the point when we recognize that no, there IS no level of effort that will make this possible? When does 'learning how to fly in the next five minutes' change to 'you can memorize this if you study for another hour ?'

    And I think another issue that comes up is: how do we judge whether something can be changed by effort alone, or if it is not possible, and WHO is the best person to judge that?

    I can say from personal experience, when someone, who has not encountered a problem that I have, proceeds to tell me that how it is effort alone that hasn't solved that problem? It may not be intentional, but truly, that comes off as pretty dismissive and condescending. It implies that not only am I not trying (or I would have had a better outcome), and that I am ignorant about myself and my life so I don't seem to KNOW that I'm not trying, but ALSO that this person - who has not had my experiences and does not have my knowledge of the problem - somehow knows what the solution to that problem IS.

    It feels like if someone came in off the street, walked into your work area, and proceeded to tell you how you are doing your job wrong, with no other knowledge than that you are having a problem.

    I do not, and cannot, know all the problems that face another person in their life, you know what I mean? And for me, that means that I don't KNOW where the line from impossible to possible IS for any challenge they face, whether it's like trying to fly or trying to study. I don't know.

    And I don't really think most of us do, either. Yeah, we can make a guess or estimate on the issue, sure. Parents do it all the times when encouraging their kids. But the further away someone's reality is from our own, the less, I think, we have any real knowledge of what is REALLY possible. Of when 'trying hard enough' is actually applicable.
  • WorkerDrone83
    WorkerDrone83 Posts: 3,195 Member
    edited October 2017
    shaumom wrote: »
    Hard enough IS defined by the outcome. That's pretty much the entire purpose of the word 'enough' being there.

    That is an interesting take on that phrase, partly because I am sure you don't mean that quite literally, in all ways, yes? If I fall from a building, the fact that I don't start flying is not because I didn't try hard 'enough.' No one is going to expect, ever. I am not breathing underwater like a fish because I can't, not because I didn't try hard enough, yes?

    If someone SAID that I fell to my death because I didn't try hard enough to fly, that would be ridiculous. And I don't think anyone, including you, would be using the phrase in that context. We all know that expecting effort alone to change such a basic, currently-unchangeable, part of reality would not work, and we don't look down on someone for being unable to change this part of reality, I don't think.

    So the real crux seems to be what, exactly, defines when enough effort makes a difference, and when it will not? Where is that line, the point when we recognize that no, there IS no level of effort that will make this possible? When does 'learning how to fly in the next five minutes' change to 'you can memorize this if you study for another hour ?'

    And I think another issue that comes up is: how do we judge whether something can be changed by effort alone, or if it is not possible, and WHO is the best person to judge that?

    I can say from personal experience, when someone, who has not encountered a problem that I have, proceeds to tell me that how it is effort alone that hasn't solved that problem? It may not be intentional, but truly, that comes off as pretty dismissive and condescending. It implies that not only am I not trying (or I would have had a better outcome), and that I am ignorant about myself and my life so I don't seem to KNOW that I'm not trying, but ALSO that this person - who has not had my experiences and does not have my knowledge of the problem - somehow knows what the solution to that problem IS.

    It feels like if someone came in off the street, walked into your work area, and proceeded to tell you how you are doing your job wrong, with no other knowledge than that you are having a problem.

    I do not, and cannot, know all the problems that face another person in their life, you know what I mean? And for me, that means that I don't KNOW where the line from impossible to possible IS for any challenge they face, whether it's like trying to fly or trying to study. I don't know.

    And I don't really think most of us do, either. Yeah, we can make a guess or estimate on the issue, sure. Parents do it all the times when encouraging their kids. But the further away someone's reality is from our own, the less, I think, we have any real knowledge of what is REALLY possible. Of when 'trying hard enough' is actually applicable.

    Expecting to fly if you fall from a building is ridiculous. Same for immediately breathing under water. But can someone survive a fall from a building or breathe under water with sufficient planning and preparation (hard work)? Easily.

    I think what's grinding people's gears about this saying, and it appears to be mostly people with legitimate medical issues, is that they're taking it as a personal attack. I don't presume to know anybody's trials and tribulations. Sounds like everyone is putting up a good fight, so "hell yeah!"

    I'm not saying that ANYONE should be expected to exhaust every opportunity, every resource in time, money, energy, contacts, etc. and sacrifice all to achieve the seemingly impossible. That kind of drive is extremely rare and most likely very unpleasant. But how can one definitely say that something is impossible without doing just that?
  • WorkerDrone83
    WorkerDrone83 Posts: 3,195 Member
    edited October 2017
    I'm not sure if God-like powers really meet the spirit of the phrase. lol

    If I wanted to fly, I'd go to flight school to become a pilot.

    If I wanted to fly off of a building and my plan was merely: open widow, step through, and flap my arms, I would not be satisfied that I'd put enough work into that venture. My common sense and knowledge of the world gets me thinking about things like: parachutes, wing suits, zip-lines, bungee, I wonder if anyone's created a jet-pack yet. I wonder if anything could be done to control the air current with huge fans or turbines. There are all sorts of ideas that are fun to think about. But I wouldn't just say "No."

    I do formally apologize to anyone I may have inadvertently triggered, though. I don't think of myself as mean-spirited or malicious, but I do know that I can be inconsiderate of strangers at times.

    So it seems that this phrase is inspirational for some and a kick in the groin for others.
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    shaumom wrote: »
    We don't have to agree with each other, but I think understanding where each other comes from is good.

    Nearly everything in life comes down to this...

  • runningforthetrain
    runningforthetrain Posts: 1,037 Member
    I have enjoyed reading this thread. I could not have said it better than AnnPT177: "Any phrase, including cliches or platitudes, has meaning in a context. Context includes who's saying it, to whom, in what tone of voice, embedded among what other words and ideas, and more. Absent that, such a phrase is a meaningless abstraction. Without a context, it doesn't communicate - I think this last is particularly the case for cliches or platitudes.

    Much of the ensuing discussion involves folks assuming a context, then debating bits of those assumptions."
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,617 Member
    I have enjoyed reading this thread. I could not have said it better than AnnPT177: "Any phrase, including cliches or platitudes, has meaning in a context. Context includes who's saying it, to whom, in what tone of voice, embedded among what other words and ideas, and more. Absent that, such a phrase is a meaningless abstraction. Without a context, it doesn't communicate - I think this last is particularly the case for cliches or platitudes.

    Much of the ensuing discussion involves folks assuming a context, then debating bits of those assumptions."

    Aw, shucks: Thanks! (blush)
  • mph323
    mph323 Posts: 3,563 Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    DX2JX2 wrote: »
    The statement is usually thrown around the most by people who haven't had to work for what they have.

    Funny enough, the people who did need to work hard to get what they wanted will be the first ones to say that there's a definite chance that you'll fail but that it's usually worth a shot anyway.

    That's pretty assumptive. You know how much effort anyone puts into things? Much less everyone who has ever used this phrase?

    My observations are somewhat different. I've heard the phrase used mostly by adults trying to encourage children (probably 99% of the time), particularly parents but occasionally teachers. It's what you say a child who has ambitious dreams and some innate competence or talent. You say it knowing full well that odds are the child will decide they're interested in something else soon, or will give up on the work and sacrifices involved in pursuing that dream long before any external roadblocks truly stop them. You say it knowing that discipline and hard work are skills, not character traits, and it encourages the development of those skills. You say it knowing most children who dream of being president some day never will... But a few do. Same for ballet dancer, astronaut, ballplayer, or actor. You say it knowing that in the course of pursuing that pie in the sky dream, they may discover another dream that they can't even imagine yet, one that will give them a perfectly happy and fulfilled life, and maybe keeping faith in impossible dreams allows children to continue daring to dream and hope and imagine.

    And that's how the phrase is typically used, in my experience.

    The other, very small, group of people I've heard use it, toward adults, generally have been people who worked up to comfort from poverty. They believe it because they have lived the sacrifice. They are generally intimately acquainted with setbacks and challenges. And I seriously don't understand why their lived experiences are less valid than anyone else's.

    I see this a lot on the daily inspirational quotes (accompanied by pictures of flowers and hearts) that some of my facebook friends post. I think a lot of the pictures are pretty but nothing I would say to anyone in real life.
  • tomteboda
    tomteboda Posts: 2,171 Member
    edited October 2017
    mph323 wrote: »

    I see this a lot on the daily inspirational quotes (accompanied by pictures of flowers and hearts) that some of my facebook friends post. I think a lot of the pictures are pretty but nothing I would say to anyone in real life.

    I'm not generally a fan of motivational quotes. Or posters, or memes on motivational quotes. But I do get why they can be psychologically effective.

    This phrase is one I've never actually used myself for anyone, old or young. It doesn't bother me, I understand the intent and it's not malicious and it's generally positive if naive
    But if you want to see me get really annoyed by a motivational cliche, drag out the Robert Frost "the road less traveled" and put the final couplet out with no context. ARGHHHH!
  • riffraff2112
    riffraff2112 Posts: 1,756 Member
    I think it gets in the way of setting realistic attainable goals. There are a limitless number of things that are impossible. Nothing wrong with setting your heights high, but dreaming about the impossible is wasting time.
  • DX2JX2
    DX2JX2 Posts: 1,921 Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    DX2JX2 wrote: »
    The statement is usually thrown around the most by people who haven't had to work for what they have.

    Funny enough, the people who did need to work hard to get what they wanted will be the first ones to say that there's a definite chance that you'll fail but that it's usually worth a shot anyway.

    That's pretty assumptive. You know how much effort anyone puts into things? Much less everyone who has ever used this phrase?

    My statement is no more assumptive than yours. And while I don't mean to spark a political debate, I think we (in the US) have a whole federal government full of people who endlessly spout variations of this dreck...the people who don't have or who haven't achieved are simply not trying hard enough.

    To say it more plainly because I'm very grumpy today...the statement is absolutely untrue. It's a worthless platitude spoken by people who don't generally have any better advice to give, nor interest in actually helping the receiver of the message. I actually lose respect for people who use the phrase, same as I do for people who use 'irregardless'. It's patronizing, trite, and cliche.

    A much better piece of advice is "You'll never know what's possible unless you try", or "God helps those who help themselves" (or whatever non-religious version of this you prefer).
  • Lean59man
    Lean59man Posts: 714 Member
    edited November 2017
    Unfortunately it's BS.

    People have talents in varying degrees in various things.

    For example, no matter how much I practice golf I will never be good enough to be a professional golfer.

    I just don't have "it".

    I am not good enough in math to be a physicist. Forget it. I'm not smart enough.

    If I practice singing all the time will I sing like Maria Carey? No.

    The trick is to find something you can become good at or at least half-assed at in the case of making a living.

    Always do the best you can.

    The vast majority of us will only ever be average if we are lucky.

    The world is full of people who can't accept their lack of talent in a certain thing and never move on to something they can be pretty fair at and have some degree of success. It's a sad thing to see.

This discussion has been closed.