Diet Sodas?
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »kanaelili06 wrote: »Calories-wise no, but watch out for diet sodas using aspartame. https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/09/01/side-effects-of-aspartame-on-the-brain/
Ugh. and round and round we go. Not even going to bother at this point.
You did a good job, get some rest my man.0 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »"If she avoids diet soda because she believes she is getting a significant amount of sodium from it"
I am glad you don't harp on it since I don't think I used the word "significant". I simply said it is a concern for me. Keeping what I said in context is helpful.
Diet Coke is roughly 70g, depending on which one of the MFP options you use in your food tracking process. If I drink x10, that's 700... I did mention I did drink ALOT. The term ALOT is subjective...that may mean only 2 for you or 20 to someone else. I limit myself because ALOT can add up...and some of us tend to have more issues with fluid retention than others.
diet coke actually has 40mg of sodium (certainly not 70g)...so even at 10 cans per day you would still only be at 10-20% of your daily sodium - and that is A LOT of diet coke in a day4 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »"If she avoids diet soda because she believes she is getting a significant amount of sodium from it"
I am glad you don't harp on it since I don't think I used the word "significant". I simply said it is a concern for me. Keeping what I said in context is helpful.
Diet Coke is roughly 70g, depending on which one of the MFP options you use in your food tracking process. If I drink x10, that's 700... I did mention I did drink ALOT. The term ALOT is subjective...that may mean only 2 for you or 20 to someone else. I limit myself because ALOT can add up...and some of us tend to have more issues with fluid retention than others.
Okay lets use your number 70mg. There is about 40mg in 12 oz so 70mg is probably a 20oz bottle not a can. Lets then use the extreme you gave for subjective of "a lot" of 20 and assume we are talking bottles not cans. That'd be 20 times 70 or 1400mg of sodium. Which by the way would be drinking 400 oz of soda a day which would be about 3 gallons a day which would probably kill you from the water intake alone.
And yet even in that most ridiculous extreme it is still less sodium than the amount in one can (400 calories) of black beans which has 1600mg which in turn is still significantly less than the amount you are supposed to get in a day (note the %RDA on the can)
Here is the other thing. The reason sodium is associated with heart issues is because if you increase the sodium concentration in your body then you retain more water and that increases your blood pressure which can lead to heart complications. The reason you retain more water is your body wants to keep the concentration of sodium in your blood the same so if you take in more sodium you retain more water. The solution to too much sodium is to drink more water, this dilutes out the sodium which you then urinate out and therefore decreases the concentration of sodium in your blood. So if you take sodium with water then you are basically taking the solution to the problem at the same time. As long as the amount of sodium in a liquid is the same or less than the amount of sodium that is naturally occuring in your body in a healthy state then drinking that liquid will either maintiain that healthy state or actually decrease the amount of sodium in your body. The amount of sodium in diet soda is not higher than the amount of sodium naturally occuring in your blood, in fact its the other way around, the concentration of sodium in blood is higher than 40mg per 12 oz, in fact blood even tastes a little salty. To get that 1400mg of sodium from that soda you'd be drinking more than 3 gallons of water along with it. Sodium is only a problem if you take more in than you dilute with water and the sodium concentration in your blood increases causing higher blood pressure. That is 100% not going to happen by drinking soda.
You want to avoid sodium by not drinking soda. Cool, got zero issue with that. You want to say that the reason you chose to not drink diet soda on a public thread about whether or not someone should drink diet soda is because of sodium thus implying it is a legitimate reason for other people to also avoid because it could raise their blood pressure? Then I am going to point out that there isn't actually that much sodium in diet soda and that it won't raise their blood pressure. Okay?9 -
You're supposed to read an entire thread before posting any type of comment? Who has time for that...haha - MFP has gotten so serious since it started years ago.
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lisawolfinger wrote: »Who is old enough to remember of actually drank TAB??? The introduction of modern diet drinks was a God send!
You can get Tab now. I have a co-worker who requests it, so we often have it at my office.0 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »"TaB? I can't give you a tab unless you order something!"
LOL...May need to be of a "mature" age to appreciate this never the less have had it a part of your pallet- Tab (TaB) was introduced by Coca-Cola in 1963. The soda was popular throughout the 1960s and 1970s, and several variations were made, including Tab Clear as well as caffeine-free versions.
It's a quotation from Back to the Future, I believe.
(A movie I am old enough to have seen for the first time in the theater.)3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »"TaB? I can't give you a tab unless you order something!"
LOL...May need to be of a "mature" age to appreciate this never the less have had it a part of your pallet- Tab (TaB) was introduced by Coca-Cola in 1963. The soda was popular throughout the 1960s and 1970s, and several variations were made, including Tab Clear as well as caffeine-free versions.
It's a quotation from Back to the Future, I believe.
(A movie I am old enough to have seen for the first time in the theater.)
Yes, this, and I was looking for a gif with that quote on it, but found this one instead:
And I think it is something I will hang onto as it seems like it would come in handy from time to time...5 -
sparklyglitterbomb wrote: »@Aaron_K123
I had a friend who recently went to some clinic to get tested for "inflammatory triggers" or something. They came back saying she's allergic to pretty much everything from meats to fruits and vegetables - and of course, grains. So she points to her mid-section (and she is close to 300 lbs) and says "all this? isn't fat, it's inflammation in my gut." So now she is blaming all foods, processed or otherwise, for her size. Prior to that, her blame was directed more to sweeteners, and carbs.
Inflammation is the new toxins.
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Okay now I want to do some math, not directed at a particular poster but now I am curious.
Hyponatermia is a condition caused by not having enough sodium which leads to too low of a sodium concentration in your blood.
A sodium concentration in blood of 120mM is considered extreme hyponatremia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia
Sodium's molecular weight is 23 grams per mol or 23mg per mmol.
1 mM is 1mmol per liter. So 120mM is 120mmol/liter.
120 mmol is 2760mg so the concentration of sodium in blood that would put in at risk of dying because you have TOO LOW of a concentration of sodium is 2760mg of sodium per liter.
A one liter diet coke has ~34 oz in it so one liter of coke has about 112mg of sodium per liter.
So diet soda. 112mg of sodium per liter.
Dangerously low concentration of sodium in your blood. 2760mg per liter.
Still think diet soda has a lot of sodium in it?
Drinking diet soda is not going to increase the amount of sodium in your blood causing high blood pressure, it would in fact do the exact opposite.
To be honest I was suprised at how little sodium diet soda actually has compared to levels in your blood, I knew it was lower but I didn't know by that much. Had to triple check my math but if that 120mM value for hyponatremia is correct then yeah, I think the math is right.
By the way this is why this "health" trend of drinking a gallon a day of water while trying to minimize sodium to as low as you can go is actually kind of dangerous and stupid.
People hear how you should drink more water (because most people don't get enough) and how you should avoid sodium in your diet (because most people get far to much) and they assume the more water they drink and the less sodium they take in the better. That isn't true, it is a balance.
Also I don't think people are used to thinking in terms of milligrams. To put 40mg of sodium in a diet coke into perspective 40mg of sodium is less than 2 grains of salt.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/cooking/table-salt/convert-grain-gr-to-sodium-na-milligram-mg.html12 -
People hear how you should drink more water (because most people don't get enough) and how you should avoid sodium in your diet (because most people get far to much) and they assume the more water they drink and the less sodium they take in the better. That isn't true, it is a balance.
I don't think Americans understand balance at all. There's a grand assumption that more is better.
I grand cousin, several times removed, who was a famous singer during WW 1. In her autobiography (Never Sing Louder than Lovely) she lamented that American singers tried to outdo themselves by singing louder and higher. Louder and higher is not necessarily better.
I see this with new diabetics too. They ask how to eat, as in, "what to cut". When it really isn't about good and evil foods but enjoying them all in balance.3 -
lisawolfinger wrote: »I drink diet soda...at points in my life ALOT of it. The sodium worries me more than anything else (I do track it)...I personally experience more water retention, hand and feet swelling, the greater my daily intake. The discomfort of that is enough to restrict my intake. Not everyone has that issue but it is mine.
You might want to look at the sodium in the other foods.3 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »I drink diet soda...at points in my life ALOT of it. The sodium worries me more than anything else (I do track it)...I personally experience more water retention, hand and feet swelling, the greater my daily intake. The discomfort of that is enough to restrict my intake. Not everyone has that issue but it is mine.
You might want to look at the sodium in the other foods.
Not to mention that when you drink soda you are not just getting sodium, you are also getting an amount of water which more than offsets the sodium content.3 -
Realize my last post was super math heavy so will try to make the point without math which will take longer so forgive the length.
Picture a bucket of 4 liters of salt water that you keep at a steady volume. There is a certain amount of salt dissolved in that water which is defined as the concentration of salt in that solution. If you pour in plain water into the bucket you are increasing the volume without increasing the amount of salt so you are effectively diluting the concentration. To get back to the same volume you pour out water until you were back to 4 liters you'd end up with less overall salt in the bucket. If you pour in water that has a little bit of salt, but not as high of a concentration as what is in the bucket, then you are still decreasing the concentration and so when you pour out back to 4 liters you end up with less salt in the bucket. This remains true for any amount of salt in the water you add up until the point it reaches the same concentration as what is in the bucket. If it is the same then once you pour out you will have the same amount of salt as when you started. If the water your pour into the bucket has a higher concentration of salt then you will effectively increase the salt concentration and when you pour out to 4 liters the total amount of salt in the bucket will be higher.
The water in our bodies is basically like that salt water in a bucket. It is at a salinity (saltiness) that is akin to salt water (just taste your sweat, tears or blood to know that) and it wants to keep that balance. If you take in too much salt it will retain water to dilute it to the same concentration as it was temporarily raising your blood pressure and then purge as much of that water as it can via urination to get back to a reasonable volume at the correct concentration. If you take in too little salt then your body will purge water to get back to the appropriate concentration but then your overall volume of water will drop (and your weight as a result). People avoid sodium to "lose weight" because of this but all they are doing is dropping the total volume of water in their body which isn't actually good for you.
When you eat food it actually takes water to solubilize all the nutrients within that food so it binds up that water. There is often a good amount of sodium in that food as well. So when you eat you are actually requiring water both for solubilizing nutrients and for trying to rebalance the added sodium concentration in your blood. As a result you have to drink more water to balance out and you retain more water which raises your blood pressure (higher volume in the same area) until you can pee it out. This is what people are thinking about when they think about sodium raising blood pressure. If you keep taking in high amounts of sodium through food then your blood pressure can remain elevated and that can be unhealthy.
If you instead drink water with sodium in it (say like a diet coke) then just like with the bucket, if the concentration of sodium in the drink is less than that in your blood you are actually diluting the concentration of sodium and when your body purges water to rebalance you will actually end up with less water in you to retain that concentration. This will actually lower your blood pressure, you will end up with lower sodium than you started with.
To increase the sodium concentration in your blood from a beverage it would either have to have enough nutrients in it that require water solubilization that there is sodium compared to the "free" water in the beverage is at a higher concentration than your blood or if the drink has no nutrition in it (like diet coke) the sodium concentration would have to be higher than your bloods sodium concentration to raise that concentration. This would be akin to basically drinking salt water from the ocean.
Diet coke doesn't have nutrients that require water to solubilize and it just isn't that salty. It isn't actually possible to raise your sodium concentration in your blood and thus raise your blood pressure by drinking soda anymore than you can raise the amount of salt in a 4 liter bucket by pouring in water that has a salinity less than what is already in the bucket.9 -
sparklyglitterbomb wrote: »@Aaron_K123
I had a friend who recently went to some clinic to get tested for "inflammatory triggers" or something. They came back saying she's allergic to pretty much everything from meats to fruits and vegetables - and of course, grains. So she points to her mid-section (and she is close to 300 lbs) and says "all this? isn't fat, it's inflammation in my gut." So now she is blaming all foods, processed or otherwise, for her size. Prior to that, her blame was directed more to sweeteners, and carbs.
Inflammation is the new toxins.
That and the microbiome. The tried and true of "causes cancer" and "is toxic" and "causes brain damage" wax and wane with the seasons. The latest fads seem to be the inflammation thing and the "changes to your microbiome" thing. I'm glad at least claiming things cause autism is somewhat out of fashion right now.4 -
Muscleflex79 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »"If she avoids diet soda because she believes she is getting a significant amount of sodium from it"
I am glad you don't harp on it since I don't think I used the word "significant". I simply said it is a concern for me. Keeping what I said in context is helpful.
Diet Coke is roughly 70g, depending on which one of the MFP options you use in your food tracking process. If I drink x10, that's 700... I did mention I did drink ALOT. The term ALOT is subjective...that may mean only 2 for you or 20 to someone else. I limit myself because ALOT can add up...and some of us tend to have more issues with fluid retention than others.
diet coke actually has 40mg of sodium (certainly not 70g)...so even at 10 cans per day you would still only be at 10-20% of your daily sodium - and that is A LOT of diet coke in a day
I think its safe to assume she meant miligrams (mg) not grams (g). 40mg is the amount in a 12oz can, 70mg is the amount in a 20oz bottle. I think its safe to assume she is referring to that amount because her beverage of choice was the 20oz diet coke bottle. In that case it is accurate. If I am wrong and she really believes there are 70 grams of sodium in one diet coke then yeah I can understand why she would be avoiding it then hah.2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »sparklyglitterbomb wrote: »@Aaron_K123
I had a friend who recently went to some clinic to get tested for "inflammatory triggers" or something. They came back saying she's allergic to pretty much everything from meats to fruits and vegetables - and of course, grains. So she points to her mid-section (and she is close to 300 lbs) and says "all this? isn't fat, it's inflammation in my gut." So now she is blaming all foods, processed or otherwise, for her size. Prior to that, her blame was directed more to sweeteners, and carbs.
Inflammation is the new toxins.
That and the microbiome. The tried and true of "causes cancer" and "is toxic" and "causes brain damage" wax and wane with the seasons. The latest fads seem to be the inflammation thing and the "changes to your microbiome" thing. I'm glad at least claiming things cause autism is somewhat out of fashion right now.
Oh I am continually told to take probiotics and my microbiome is what causing my crohn's. Most of the microbiome is in the colon and um I had a total proctocolectomy so no colon. Probiotics are possibly linked to SIBO in the colonless so no thank you.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lisawolfinger wrote: »
(A movie I am old enough to have seen for the first time in the theater.)
Same!
(edit: meh, I really messed this quote up lol)0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »sparklyglitterbomb wrote: »@Aaron_K123
I had a friend who recently went to some clinic to get tested for "inflammatory triggers" or something. They came back saying she's allergic to pretty much everything from meats to fruits and vegetables - and of course, grains. So she points to her mid-section (and she is close to 300 lbs) and says "all this? isn't fat, it's inflammation in my gut." So now she is blaming all foods, processed or otherwise, for her size. Prior to that, her blame was directed more to sweeteners, and carbs.
Inflammation is the new toxins.
That and the microbiome. The tried and true of "causes cancer" and "is toxic" and "causes brain damage" wax and wane with the seasons. The latest fads seem to be the inflammation thing and the "changes to your microbiome" thing. I'm glad at least claiming things cause autism is somewhat out of fashion right now.
Oh I am continually told to take probiotics and my microbiome is what causing my crohn's. Most of the microbiome is in the colon and um I had a total proctocolectomy so no colon. Probiotics are possibly linked to SIBO in the colonless so no thank you.
If you've ever heard of the concept of "the God of the gaps" its basically the same thing. That concept is people will attribute gaps in our knowledge, things we don't understand how they work, to God but once we figure out how they work and that gap is filled its just mundane and so "God" as an explanation moves to the next thing we don't understand yet, to the next gap.
The microbiome is a thing. Your microbiome is vital for your ability to digest, process and gather nutrition from your diet. Your diet does have the potential to change your microbiome. All of that is true. But we have no idea if any given change is "bad" or "good" or "neutral" or what. If you change your diet at all your microbiome will change so of course a study introducing something to a diet will show a change to the microbiome. People will just slap "bad" onto that willy nilly to justify their belief that ingredient X is bad. They take a lack of understanding and vagueness and hide their beliefs there.
We don't know what causes autism. So aspartame does. We don't always have an explanation for why someone gets cancer. So aspartame causes cancer. We don't know what a change in ones microbiome means if anything. So if adding aspartame to your diet changes your microbiome that is bad. We don't always have an explanation for inflammation....but aspartame caused it.
Its like with UFOs. UFO literally means "unidentified" flying object. The word "unidentified" is literally in the phrase, meaning we have no explanation. So what happens. You get a bunch of people saying what it is while calling it unidentified and not realizing how silly that is.
If you don't know what causes something that is okay, it is okay to just say you don't know. You don't have to just fling things at it and pretend that something stuck.
Where it gets REALLY irritating though is when we (as a species) do know something. Its just that the person who has the belief isn't aware or doesn't understand so they continue to use that hole in their knowledge as a place to hide a bunch of beliefs that actually have already been shown to be false.6 -
JeepHair77 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pjbarclay55 wrote: »You are right im relating the two. My other post was saying sugars, i include them together Sugars/Sweetners) shouldn't but i do. Neither one are probably at all related sugar, aspartame and my personal fat loss but because it happened its kept me continuing what i'm doing. Just an interesting read below:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/
How many people have you seen walking around with a double bacon cheeseburger and the largest french fry available...but it's all good because they're drinking a diet soda? I've seen lots...
I hear this all the time, and I know everyone rolls their eyes at me for doing this, but if my calorie limit just barely allows my most-favoritest Whataburger lunch every so often (and as it is, I'm sacrificing the mayo for cheese and skipping breakfast), no way am I going to waste any of those calories on full-sugar soda when the diet version still brings me joy (JOY, I tell you!), and I don't know why this particular meal-ordering phenomenon is so vexing to people.
If someone could come up with a zero-calorie bacon cheeseburger, I'd order that, too.
Yeah, but gen pop isn't calorie counting...people who are actually calorie counting are a pretty large minority. Most of those people eating the double bacon cheeseburger and extra large fry with their diet soda have zero clue as to whether they're "fitting it in."
It's not vexing to me...I just had one the other day from Blake's...but I am calorie aware...most people aren't0 -
Poisonedpawn78 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »pjbarclay55 wrote: »You are right im relating the two. My other post was saying sugars, i include them together Sugars/Sweetners) shouldn't but i do. Neither one are probably at all related sugar, aspartame and my personal fat loss but because it happened its kept me continuing what i'm doing. Just an interesting read below:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/
How many people have you seen walking around with a double bacon cheeseburger and the largest french fry available...but it's all good because they're drinking a diet soda? I've seen lots...
To be fair, it depends on the situation really. I can fit a cheeseburger and fries into my daily goals pretty easily, but a normal coke would destroy it. Id rather have the extra 200ish calories for other food and not drink my calories away.
On the other hand if they are using the diet coke as justification to add more food without consideration to calories/nutrition, its pretty reckless and silly.
How much of the general population is calorie aware and knows whether they're fitting it in or not?1
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