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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
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Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.5 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People can choose but it is much easier if you don't feel like your starving all them time. How many of the "only CICO matters" crowd has yo-yo dieted and gained weight back? I bet a significant percentage. Why, because it is difficult. Hunger influences on eating should not be completely ignored.
The failure rate for almost diets is like 80-90%. And there is no CICO diet.9 -
It is that simple. In fact, people are very good at losing weight; i can bet almost everyone you know has lost weight at one time. Its the maintenance that is hard because people never learn strategies to get there amd often take super aggressive approaches to lose weight. MFP just makes it easy to quantify.
^^ This is absolutely right. Maintenance is the hardest part for many people, not losing weight. I'm 70 years old, was a skinny kid who started putting on weight in fourth grade due primarily to emotional eating. I've taken off considerable weight several times since becoming an adult, doing diet pills, medically supervised liquid diet, Nutrisystem, Weight Watchers, support groups, low fat diets, low carb diets. They all worked if I reduced my calorie intake. But until I realized it's about making a permanent lifestyle change, I'd put it right back on again. You have to permanently change your attitude and beliefs about food or you'll pack the pounds back on again.
I've found for me this means: recognizing my hunger cues and asking myself if I really am hungry when I want to eat something, not eating mindlessly or emotionally, monitoring my input (even if I get to the point where I can just eyeball portions), weighing myself at least once a week, reducing my caloric input if I find my weight creeping up until I get back down again, finding better ways to manage stress and negative emotions than feeding my face.14 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Everyone is partially right. A deficit is all that matters in losing weight but what and when you eat effect the deficit. Hormones can cause a person to absorb more or excrete more and can have impacts on hunger which all effect deficits.
How would it? despite hormones influencing hunger cues, that person still makes the choice to eat. Also, if someone does have a medical condition that impacts the food they need not consume, such as PCOS then after being diagnosed by a doctor, they would then know this and choose an appropriate lifestyle choice. However, no matter if they choose to ignore that lifestyle choice or if someone is choosing to eat from hunger cues, the food they pick or the time of day in which they eat that food does not matter, if my hormones were screaming at me to eat chocolate at 3am it is not set in stone that i have to, cravings actually can be ignored for one, a lot of people find that hard to do but it is something people can do, they also have a choice on how much of it they want to consume if they can't ignore it, if they choose to sit there and eat 5 chocolate bars and use their entire days worth of calories, thats on them then, hormones may cause the strong desire but again they can be ignored.
deficit is deficit. You choose to keep your deficit or eat it. Paying attention to your own body helps plan ahead and use your calories more wisely so you can make sure of that. @blambo61 -- People who claim that they can't lose weight because their hormones cause them to eat and feel hungry are simply using that as an excuse, otherwise everyone with a hormone imbalance would just forever be fat, but plenty of people have successfully lost weight even with hormone issues, it takes patience to find the math that will get you there and it takes awareness of how you need to plan, and it takes strategy to find the lifestyle that will best help you but if you are just going to throw in the white towel, don't blame the food picked, hormones or the sun or the moon being in the sky for it, you still make conscious choices in the end and if you plan right, the time of day and choice of food makes no difference.
People can choose but it is much easier if you don't feel like your starving all them time. How many of the "only CICO matters" crowd has yo-yo dieted and gained weight back? I bet a significant percentage. Why, because it is difficult. Hunger influences on eating should not be completely ignored.
The failure rate for almost diets is like 80-90%. And there is no CICO diet.
This. I'm a contributor to those statistics. I'm perfectly capable of losing weight with enough incentive, but was never able to sustain the loss. The reason was the same every time - I would reach my goal weight, then continue losing because that's all I knew how to do. At some point I would break, and pile all the weight back on.
I'm at goal weight again, (thanks in great part to these forums). I lost by eating the same foods I ate when I was gaining, but controlling portions (calories). By not having restricted myself to a food plan that didn't incorporate foods I love and didn't take into account what kinds of food keep me from being hungry all the time, one of the challenges I won't face while maintaining is trying to continue eating in a way that I don't find satisfying while losing the incentive of seeing the downward trend on the scale. I think this is possibly the single biggest contributor to regaining after weight loss.11 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »I don't understand all this debating. On the one hand we have the die hard Cico folk who ignore hormones and then on the other hand we have the hormonal folk who ignore Cico. Why can't we have BOTH??? We need a calorie deficit and a hormonal balance. This is why I follow Dr Jade Teta's protocol. He addresses how to do a calorie deficit in line with balancing hormones. Perfect. As some one who has PCOS I find his work very enlightening.
See, there is a sort of a miscommunication happening. CICO simply means the balance of incoming and outgoing calories, and that tipping the balance to one side or another is the only way to lose/gain fat. It means nothing else. It doesn't say anything about the quality of food or its nutrients. It doesn't say anything about how sustainable is a particular diet for a certain individual. It doesn't say anything about hormones or health conditions that affect how many calories a person absorbs/burns (yes, these exist and the CICO folks don't deny them). It doesn't say anything about how eating a certain way helps one health condition or another. These are all separate topics. The issues with the "hormone folks" is that they deny the very fundament of weight control.
There is nothing wrong with following an approach that is beneficial for a certain health condition, but that can be achieved without believing woo. I have a few hormonal and physical conditions that affect how many calories I burn. Being aware of that helps me develop strategies that insure that my calories in are fewer than calories out taking these conditions into account. Fung denies that calories have anything to do with weight gain in people with hormonal issues (and goes further to say that hormonal issues are the cause for all weight gain). That's a load of... Yeah. He's a master of saying things that are technically true, but mean nothing in context. That's the definition of a quack.
Yes I agree with you but I also find those people frustrating who think it's just calories in and out and THATS IT. what so the human body is that simple??? No we're so complex that scientists and nutrition experts are only starting to look at female fat loss now! Our hormones change every single week, wow. When we start our menstrual cycle then estrogen is higher and that helps with pushing our workouts as females are stronger, during ovulation that's when we are the strongest and then during the later phase of the cycle (follicular phase) progesterone is higher and energy levels can plummet just before the period begins. I learnt this from Lyle McDonald's podcast with Mike Mathews and from Dr Jade Teta.
https://www.muscleforlife.com/lyle-mcdonald-podcast/
https://www.metaboliceffect.com/the-female-fat-loss-formula/
Before, just by counting calories I was not getting any results but after following these guys I now know how to work counting calories, macros along with my hormones!
Hormone fluctuations and all that comes with them is part of CO. They aren’t “more” than CICO...they’re part of it.13 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.
I feel this way about the hardcore Keto dieters. And some might say that the people here who are pro eating whatever you want boast this method just as much as... but honestly.. I really don't believe the hype of it.. I am sure the people who feel satiated on a high fat diet might find it a long term success, especially if those foods that help them get there are foods they actually enjoy regularly.. And it may kill cravings for some, but i really don't believe it kills cravings for everyone.. I really do believe that there is more people out there who eat a variety of foods consisting of all macros and should simply start by eating less of what they enjoy before jumping into a specific list of foods diet unless for some reason they feel it necessary if eating whatever they enjoy doesn't work for them in moderation. The ones who go to every board where someone is having some confusion or problems and all they do is post "Keto" like it's the solution of all problems. At least with a diet consisting of all food options it gives you the opportunity to figure out what keeps you as an individual satiated.. If fats don't keep you full and they don't curb cravings for you long term.. because we all know that new diet motivation can often give someone the impression that they don't miss those foods.. are you really going to struggle through a diet that isn't working for you under false pretenses when in the end it really is all about calories in and calories out and that keto is a method to achieving a deficit for some and not a solution for everyone?
But you see it in the threads a lot.. people starting keto after reading about it somewhere else and believe this diet is going to make them lose weight fast, burn more fat and be the diet to cure their sugar or carb addiction.. But you know, just my opinion and all..
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HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.
I feel this way about the hardcore Keto dieters. And some might say that the people here who are pro eating whatever you want boast this method just as much as... but honestly.. I really don't believe the hype of it.. I am sure the people who feel satiated on a high fat diet might find it a long term success, especially if those foods that help them get there are foods they actually enjoy regularly.. And it may kill cravings for some, but i really don't believe it kills cravings for everyone.. I really do believe that there is more people out there who eat a variety of foods consisting of all macros and should simply start by eating less of what they enjoy before jumping into a specific list of foods diet unless for some reason they feel it necessary if eating whatever they enjoy doesn't work for them in moderation. The ones who go to every board where someone is having some confusion or problems and all they do is post "Keto" like it's the solution of all problems. At least with a diet consisting of all food options it gives you the opportunity to figure out what keeps you as an individual satiated.. If fats don't keep you full and they don't curb cravings for you long term.. because we all know that new diet motivation can often give someone the impression that they don't miss those foods.. are you really going to struggle through a diet that isn't working for you under false pretenses when in the end it really is all about calories in and calories out and that keto is a method to achieving a deficit for some and not a solution for everyone?
But you see it in the threads a lot.. people starting keto after reading about it somewhere else and believe this diet is going to make them lose weight fast, burn more fat and be the diet to cure their sugar or carb addiction.. But you know, just my opinion and all..
Well, I don't know that keto is necessary. I think low carb can be beneficial for people who have trouble moderating things, but I think a lot of them coming into it have very poor diets to begin with and need to learn how to eat and enjoy better foods overall on the whole and how to have those treat foods in context.
I'll give you an example of my day so far. I just had my first meal at 2:00 and it will hold me until dinner at 7;00. It was 226 grams of low fat cottage cheese on three rice cakes topped with 100 grams of avocado. After that? I had a fun sized bag of M & M's.
Context, as you can see, was important. So was dosage. That pack of M & M's was 60 calories. I'm not crazed with cravings, and I had carbs and sugar. But I had healthy food too.
However, it took me years to get to this point, and getting here took periods of revamping my diet and learning to make better choices. Maybe for some people, keto is training wheels. Who knows. I just hope most of them are eating more vegetables than I remember seeing in some food diaries.12 -
Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol1 -
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suzannesimmons3 wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Things that give me uncontrollable hunger; 1. Fats and 2. Fasting
I IF alright because I always wake up vaguely nauseated, but the last time I had to fast (for a colonoscopy), I got one of the worst migraines I ever had. I actually had to cancel the colonoscopy because I couldn't stop vomiting long enough to leave the house to go get it.
I really don't get this whole "thing" about fasting for a couple of days and what it's supposed to do for you and am just waiting for the day when it all goes away.
And yes, fats leave me hungry too. A breakfast of something like just eggs and cheese would leave me famished.
I feel this way about the hardcore Keto dieters. And some might say that the people here who are pro eating whatever you want boast this method just as much as... but honestly.. I really don't believe the hype of it.. I am sure the people who feel satiated on a high fat diet might find it a long term success, especially if those foods that help them get there are foods they actually enjoy regularly.. And it may kill cravings for some, but i really don't believe it kills cravings for everyone.. I really do believe that there is more people out there who eat a variety of foods consisting of all macros and should simply start by eating less of what they enjoy before jumping into a specific list of foods diet unless for some reason they feel it necessary if eating whatever they enjoy doesn't work for them in moderation. The ones who go to every board where someone is having some confusion or problems and all they do is post "Keto" like it's the solution of all problems. At least with a diet consisting of all food options it gives you the opportunity to figure out what keeps you as an individual satiated.. If fats don't keep you full and they don't curb cravings for you long term.. because we all know that new diet motivation can often give someone the impression that they don't miss those foods.. are you really going to struggle through a diet that isn't working for you under false pretenses when in the end it really is all about calories in and calories out and that keto is a method to achieving a deficit for some and not a solution for everyone?
But you see it in the threads a lot.. people starting keto after reading about it somewhere else and believe this diet is going to make them lose weight fast, burn more fat and be the diet to cure their sugar or carb addiction.. But you know, just my opinion and all..
Well, I don't know that keto is necessary. I think low carb can be beneficial for people who have trouble moderating things, but I think a lot of them coming into it have very poor diets to begin with and need to learn how to eat and enjoy better foods overall on the whole and how to have those treat foods in context.
I'll give you an example of my day so far. I just had my first meal at 2:00 and it will hold me until dinner at 7;00. It was 226 grams of low fat cottage cheese on three rice cakes topped with 100 grams of avocado. After that? I had a fun sized bag of M & M's.
Context, as you can see, was important. So was dosage. That pack of M & M's was 60 calories. I'm not crazed with cravings, and I had carbs and sugar. But I had healthy food too.
However, it took me years to get to this point, and getting here took periods of revamping my diet and learning to make better choices. Maybe for some people, keto is training wheels. Who knows. I just hope most of them are eating more vegetables than I remember seeing in some food diaries.
Keto don't have veg much...too many carbs.
Some do. Some eat to 50 grams and count net carbs. Some keto people who are active eat more carbs and count net and get in lots of leafy greens.
Then you get the hard core types that think it's either too much trouble or don't trust the whole net carb thing and eat less than 20 grams of carbs a day (and yes, I've seen them talk about it) and you're right, they're not getting many vegetables.
So then what those people do is start to debate whether vegetables are valuable in the diet or not (insert eye rolling gif because I can't even).
I think here an exception in the discussion should be made for epileptics eating keto to control seizures. Because they are eating an entirely different form of the diet than most of the typical keto dieters we're all talking about anyway. But I thought I'd bring it up just for the sake of completeness. They have to have a very, very high fat intake, IIRC.6 -
I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...5
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It just seems like a very boring diet.. lol... i feel like the meals would kind of be random things that don't even make a meal to me.. i enjoy nice traditional meals, meats, veg (although i don't really like a wide variety of veggies, i tend to stick to my 3-4 usuals) and a nice side of potatoes with lots of margarine and gravy. I like pasta casseroles, Lasagna with garlic bread and Cesar salads..
and if you are boycotting veggies.. what is left to put on a plate?1 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.5 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?1 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
It's interesting to think about. It opens up the possibility that low carbing works to eliminate craving by also changing the food choices available to crave.
I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily true, it's just interesting to ponder.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
The one I've read most often is that fiber is only needed to digest plants.
Yeah. Forget about bowel health or any of that tomfoolery.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing. Which if you just stop and think about the things you crave and how often reveals itself as pretty ridiculous.
Do I sometimes crave donuts, chocolate, fries, pizza, cake etc? Absolutely. But I also crave baked potatoes, asparagus, peaches, cherries, roast chicken, sushi, the list is endless. It's just a food itch I'd like to scratch and it can come in the shape of all sorts of things. As we CICO obsessives bang on about, it's context and dosage. If I crave donuts I should eat 1 within my calories. And if I crave sushi I should have my favourite selection within my calories.
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.10 -
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing. Which if you just stop and think about the things you crave and how often reveals itself as pretty ridiculous.
Do I sometimes crave donuts, chocolate, fries, pizza, cake etc? Absolutely. But I also crave baked potatoes, asparagus, peaches, cherries, roast chicken, sushi, the list is endless. It's just a food itch I'd like to scratch and it can come in the shape of all sorts of things. As we CICO obsessives bang on about, it's context and dosage. If I crave donuts I should eat 1 within my calories. And if I crave sushi I should have my favourite selection within my calories.
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.
I agree. I think, though, the problem for the people who struggle with them is that they are always craving foods they seem to have trouble controlling themselves with.
The problem then, of course, isn't with the craving, the problem is with the control.
This doesn't, of course, mean, that the answer is MAH HORMONES and keto.
I do think a lot of the people who make those claims just might have very poor diets and could learn to have better balanced ones that fall somewhere between SAD and keto. I don't feel there's a need for a wild pendulum swing from one extreme to another to correct bad habits.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
Yep, there surely is
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
The one I've read most often is that fiber is only needed to digest plants.
Yeah. Forget about bowel health or any of that tomfoolery.
Yes, this is pretty much the gist of it.0 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It just seems like a very boring diet.. lol... i feel like the meals would kind of be random things that don't even make a meal to me.. i enjoy nice traditional meals, meats, veg (although i don't really like a wide variety of veggies, i tend to stick to my 3-4 usuals) and a nice side of potatoes with lots of margarine and gravy. I like pasta casseroles, Lasagna with garlic bread and Cesar salads..
and if you are boycotting veggies.. what is left to put on a plate?
I did keto for a bit. I DO like having more variety, fruit, potatoes and pasta, and not having to worry about how many vegetables I eat, and I always struggled trying to get to my fat goal, so I am not saying anyone else should, but my diet seemed kind of normal (for me) when I did it. 2 egg vegetable omelet with feta (I'd usually do spinach and mushrooms and broccoli, but would vary the veg, always multiple veg), full fat cottage cheese or avocado on the side. (No matter how I'm eating I tend to eat them same thing for breakfast most days.) For lunch more often than not I'd have a big salad with protein on it, maybe some nuts or seeds or olive, and usually a vinaigrette dressing (I make it myself and vary the recipe). For dinner I'd have meat (but I do a lot of seafood) plus 2-3 kinds of vegetables. Dessert, if I had it, might be fancy cheese or nuts, although I admit I played around with a few keto-recipes and had more fake sweets than I ever do real sweets, which was silly, and also if I had adequate carbs I might have a little greek yogurt with nut butter (which is amazing).
I don't eat that differently not doing keto, although I eat less fat and fill in with more fruit, low fat dairy, and some starches (pasta, potatoes, sweet potatoes).
I did find it impossible to keep to under 20 g (I was usually 35-40 g net carbs), and I always wonder how people can do that without sacrificing veg. I also find it weird when people claim keto is healthier -- I think it can be as healthy, sure, although I think my own diet is probably healthier without quite so much fat, in part because it's really hard for me to come anywhere near the relevant calories (given that nuts and avocados have carbs) without more oils, dairy fat, or animal fat than I really think is idea -- and I am hardly restrictive of those things in my regular diet, I just would rather use moderation, you know). ;-)
I think some people find their appetite is significantly less keto-ing, and I get why they do it. I find having enough fat in my diet is important (although I do find that fiber can compensate somewhat if I make sure to have really delicious food), but I don't struggle with hunger, it's never been my problem, and fat really isn't satiating to me at all (satiation and satisfaction are different, of course), so I always find it annoying when people assume that not doing keto (or doing CICO or whatever) means you are starving and white knuckling. I always find this an odd assumption -- surely if you were hungry you'd change around what you ate so that you weren't, even if calories were your main thing (or especially if calories was your main thing!). Plus, for me, a sensible healthy diet as people ordinarily think of it -- adequate protein, lean meats and fish, whole grains and whole food sources of fiber, not a lot of refined grains or sugar or added fat (i.e., so call junk food), and of course lots of vegetables and maybe some fruit has always seemed to be a quite satiating diet, and often people don't compare their new way of eating to that, but to some bizarre version of the SAD that they were following or use as a strawman or stereotype.
Sorry, most of this was a rant more connected to other posts than yours, but since I was writing! ;-)
Also I will say again that for the most part I am easy to satisfy with breakfast -- I can just have coffee and be fine, have oats, protein powder and berries and be fine, have a banana and greek yogurt and be fine, have a smoothie (protein powder and lots of vegetables included, not always much fat). Today I had to catch a plane so had some leftover roasted potatoes, brussels sprouts, and cauliflower I'd prepared the night before, just a bit of olive oil, and an apple, and that got me through the plane ride, lunchtime (skipped lunch), and then a run of 8 miles (hilly!) that did not end until 2, plus a short film about a key Civil War event, some driving, and some shopping. I was STARVING, granted, by the time I got to have a snack at 4, but given the calories I think a carby breakfast does not mean one is immediately starving before lunch (my snack was 200 cal, I'll eat more at dinner, since dinner will be at a restaurant).
So clearly I'm good with many breakfasts. The two breakfasts I've had that meant I was ready to eat again by 10? A bagel, on the one hand, and bacon and eggs, on the other.
As for 3-10 day fasts, yeah, not sure I could do that, but have absolutely no desire to, and don't understand this idea that it's something I should strive for.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing.
<snip>
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.
My cravings were an impulsive, uncontrollable thing that felt almost impossible to resist in the moment. They were not a normal, healthy reaction to food or something I've blown out of proportion. I'll assume that's not what you or other people who are happy with their cravings experience but what I mean when I say craving is absolutely a bad thing and something I'm well rid of.6 -
@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..2 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Well, let's see, thinking back... remember, I did low carb for 10 years. I still crave soft chewy bread, but I can never have it because celiac disease, but I digress.
Anyway... I think everyone experiences cravings differently, I guess. I know I still craved things and made low carb substitutes and made do with those. I know some people never do the substitutes route, but you'd have to ask one of them who'd low carbed long term what their experience was like.
I don't know many MFP'ers who've had the length of experience low carbing that I did. I do have to say that over time, I didn't rely on as many subs as I did initially. Sort of separated the good ones from the bad, and only stuck to those which made practical sense. So just a few. Ten years was a looooong time.0 -
I dunno... maybe i am just a weirdo.. but.. i can make my own donairs..
(Cause i know people are gonna be like.. what the *kitten* is a donair?!"
But despite that.. eventually i will get a craving for one from a take out place.. even with substitutes available.
i know there are people out there who can just not substitute and just go without.. but i feel like the amount who can compared to the amount of keto enthusiasts claiming as such just don't add up..
you know eventually i am going to look like one of those crazy conspiracy theorists who instead of ranting about a flat earth or the moon landing not happening, I will be jibber jabbering about keto and cravings lol
3 -
Well, I can't speak for everyone, but you have to remember that I live with a disease that means I have to do without.
So living with substitutes is part of my life. So that made it easy for me.
Maybe that's why I made it ten years low carbing. BTW, when I low carbed, I never once "cheated" by eating carbs.
There's the thing. I know a lot of people who low carb have days where they go off the wagon and indulge. I never did.
I don't know for sure the statistics on low carbers. I know some make it long term, but it's not very many. And I know a lot of them do go out and have that thing they're craving and go back on the wagon. Before they fall off again. Maybe completely, maybe to give another way of dieting a try.
3 -
I think thats why i never went low carb when i was diabetic.. I would of never been able to sustain that.. i did make some low carb choices sometimes, but more so cause of the calories.. like i bought low carb pasta, but not cause it was low carb, but because real pasta is 310 calories and this stuff is exactly the same but packed with over 20g of fiber so it brought the calories down to 130 calories.0
-
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Try it for 90 days and see what happens in your case and stop questioning what you are or are not missing by going keto. By the way craving chewy soft fresh bread is an emotional craving. While in about 30 days most of my carb cravings were fading fast remembering the taste, smell and feel of a banana split was strong for more like six months. Three years after cutting out all sugar and all forms of grains my physical carb cravings are still gone but emotional carb cravings can get triggered from time to time but not one that is strong enough to act on I find in my case.29 -
Ironically, the only cravings i cant control are fats. Which is onw reason i could never go keto. And the volume sucks *kitten*... do i couldnt handle that non sense.5
-
Ironically, the only cravings i cant control are fats. Which is onw reason i could never go keto. And the volume sucks *kitten*... do i couldnt handle that non sense.
Same. Cheeses, roasted nuts (especially pecans), whipped cream, butter, cured meats, garlic oil, hot oil .. hard to control for me.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Try it for 90 days and see what happens in your case and stop questioning what you are or are not missing by going keto. By the way craving chewy soft fresh bread is an emotional craving. While in about 30 days most of my carb cravings were fading fast remembering the taste, smell and feel of a banana split was strong for more like six months. Three years after cutting out all sugar and all forms of grains my physical carb cravings are still gone but emotional carb cravings can get triggered from time to time but not one that is strong enough to act on I find in my case.
Yeah.. I don't need to try it for 90 days
Mostly because I know that I do not feel full on fats simply from almost 3 years experience with playing with macros.
Another reason being I don't like most of the food options besides the meats.
I do not have the budget for meat in that quantity.
I'm patient enough to wait for the threads being made by keto starters stating they are having cravings.10
This discussion has been closed.
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