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Dr Jason Fung - The Useless Concept of Calories
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I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...5
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It just seems like a very boring diet.. lol... i feel like the meals would kind of be random things that don't even make a meal to me.. i enjoy nice traditional meals, meats, veg (although i don't really like a wide variety of veggies, i tend to stick to my 3-4 usuals) and a nice side of potatoes with lots of margarine and gravy. I like pasta casseroles, Lasagna with garlic bread and Cesar salads..
and if you are boycotting veggies.. what is left to put on a plate?1 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.5 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?1 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
It's interesting to think about. It opens up the possibility that low carbing works to eliminate craving by also changing the food choices available to crave.
I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily true, it's just interesting to ponder.2 -
stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
The one I've read most often is that fiber is only needed to digest plants.
Yeah. Forget about bowel health or any of that tomfoolery.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing. Which if you just stop and think about the things you crave and how often reveals itself as pretty ridiculous.
Do I sometimes crave donuts, chocolate, fries, pizza, cake etc? Absolutely. But I also crave baked potatoes, asparagus, peaches, cherries, roast chicken, sushi, the list is endless. It's just a food itch I'd like to scratch and it can come in the shape of all sorts of things. As we CICO obsessives bang on about, it's context and dosage. If I crave donuts I should eat 1 within my calories. And if I crave sushi I should have my favourite selection within my calories.
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.10 -
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing. Which if you just stop and think about the things you crave and how often reveals itself as pretty ridiculous.
Do I sometimes crave donuts, chocolate, fries, pizza, cake etc? Absolutely. But I also crave baked potatoes, asparagus, peaches, cherries, roast chicken, sushi, the list is endless. It's just a food itch I'd like to scratch and it can come in the shape of all sorts of things. As we CICO obsessives bang on about, it's context and dosage. If I crave donuts I should eat 1 within my calories. And if I crave sushi I should have my favourite selection within my calories.
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.
I agree. I think, though, the problem for the people who struggle with them is that they are always craving foods they seem to have trouble controlling themselves with.
The problem then, of course, isn't with the craving, the problem is with the control.
This doesn't, of course, mean, that the answer is MAH HORMONES and keto.
I do think a lot of the people who make those claims just might have very poor diets and could learn to have better balanced ones that fall somewhere between SAD and keto. I don't feel there's a need for a wild pendulum swing from one extreme to another to correct bad habits.3 -
stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
Yep, there surely is
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »I know many people who foofoo Fibre/fruit/veggies cite "The fibre menace" to back up their opinions...
The whatnow? Is there really fearmongering about fiber?
The one I've read most often is that fiber is only needed to digest plants.
Yeah. Forget about bowel health or any of that tomfoolery.
Yes, this is pretty much the gist of it.0 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »It just seems like a very boring diet.. lol... i feel like the meals would kind of be random things that don't even make a meal to me.. i enjoy nice traditional meals, meats, veg (although i don't really like a wide variety of veggies, i tend to stick to my 3-4 usuals) and a nice side of potatoes with lots of margarine and gravy. I like pasta casseroles, Lasagna with garlic bread and Cesar salads..
and if you are boycotting veggies.. what is left to put on a plate?
I did keto for a bit. I DO like having more variety, fruit, potatoes and pasta, and not having to worry about how many vegetables I eat, and I always struggled trying to get to my fat goal, so I am not saying anyone else should, but my diet seemed kind of normal (for me) when I did it. 2 egg vegetable omelet with feta (I'd usually do spinach and mushrooms and broccoli, but would vary the veg, always multiple veg), full fat cottage cheese or avocado on the side. (No matter how I'm eating I tend to eat them same thing for breakfast most days.) For lunch more often than not I'd have a big salad with protein on it, maybe some nuts or seeds or olive, and usually a vinaigrette dressing (I make it myself and vary the recipe). For dinner I'd have meat (but I do a lot of seafood) plus 2-3 kinds of vegetables. Dessert, if I had it, might be fancy cheese or nuts, although I admit I played around with a few keto-recipes and had more fake sweets than I ever do real sweets, which was silly, and also if I had adequate carbs I might have a little greek yogurt with nut butter (which is amazing).
I don't eat that differently not doing keto, although I eat less fat and fill in with more fruit, low fat dairy, and some starches (pasta, potatoes, sweet potatoes).
I did find it impossible to keep to under 20 g (I was usually 35-40 g net carbs), and I always wonder how people can do that without sacrificing veg. I also find it weird when people claim keto is healthier -- I think it can be as healthy, sure, although I think my own diet is probably healthier without quite so much fat, in part because it's really hard for me to come anywhere near the relevant calories (given that nuts and avocados have carbs) without more oils, dairy fat, or animal fat than I really think is idea -- and I am hardly restrictive of those things in my regular diet, I just would rather use moderation, you know). ;-)
I think some people find their appetite is significantly less keto-ing, and I get why they do it. I find having enough fat in my diet is important (although I do find that fiber can compensate somewhat if I make sure to have really delicious food), but I don't struggle with hunger, it's never been my problem, and fat really isn't satiating to me at all (satiation and satisfaction are different, of course), so I always find it annoying when people assume that not doing keto (or doing CICO or whatever) means you are starving and white knuckling. I always find this an odd assumption -- surely if you were hungry you'd change around what you ate so that you weren't, even if calories were your main thing (or especially if calories was your main thing!). Plus, for me, a sensible healthy diet as people ordinarily think of it -- adequate protein, lean meats and fish, whole grains and whole food sources of fiber, not a lot of refined grains or sugar or added fat (i.e., so call junk food), and of course lots of vegetables and maybe some fruit has always seemed to be a quite satiating diet, and often people don't compare their new way of eating to that, but to some bizarre version of the SAD that they were following or use as a strawman or stereotype.
Sorry, most of this was a rant more connected to other posts than yours, but since I was writing! ;-)
Also I will say again that for the most part I am easy to satisfy with breakfast -- I can just have coffee and be fine, have oats, protein powder and berries and be fine, have a banana and greek yogurt and be fine, have a smoothie (protein powder and lots of vegetables included, not always much fat). Today I had to catch a plane so had some leftover roasted potatoes, brussels sprouts, and cauliflower I'd prepared the night before, just a bit of olive oil, and an apple, and that got me through the plane ride, lunchtime (skipped lunch), and then a run of 8 miles (hilly!) that did not end until 2, plus a short film about a key Civil War event, some driving, and some shopping. I was STARVING, granted, by the time I got to have a snack at 4, but given the calories I think a carby breakfast does not mean one is immediately starving before lunch (my snack was 200 cal, I'll eat more at dinner, since dinner will be at a restaurant).
So clearly I'm good with many breakfasts. The two breakfasts I've had that meant I was ready to eat again by 10? A bagel, on the one hand, and bacon and eggs, on the other.
As for 3-10 day fasts, yeah, not sure I could do that, but have absolutely no desire to, and don't understand this idea that it's something I should strive for.2 -
VintageFeline wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »Yeah, i guess thats what i meant by necessary i suppose.. if you start off with everything and are constantly tweaking things and finding what works for you, you could find that low carb works for you.. Training wheels in regards to keto sounds fairly accurate for people who aren't going to treat it as a yo-yo diet and do it for a while, find it hard to maintain and quit, if they have the common sense to realize its not sustainable and change and add more carbs, I guess i could see it as a starting point of adding things, rather then starting with everything and realize that they do better with fewer carbs. But i think a lot of people starting out do get into keto and low carb for the wrong reasons or beliefs that they can't have carbs if they want to lose weight or its the way to lose weight faster then any other method of deficit.
It took me years to realize i need treats and especially chocolate in my diet or i would go crazy lol.. treats complete my day, i feel like something is missing without them, i am just not sitting there eating 2-3 bags of chocolates like i used to and know that i like something sweet after a meal. i handle my cravings, i think too many people believe that cravings should not exist at all for certain foods. period. I can have cravings for anything, it doesn't just have to be sweets, Sometimes i get cravings for raspberry vinaigrette salad dressing and will eat large platefuls of salad just to taste it, I get cravings for canned peas, I went through a phase where i craved nothing but chicken with that chipotle mango spice on it from clubhouse. I crave hellmans mayo sometimes. I often go on homemade turkey soup kicks where i eat that both meals, sometimes for weeks. Guacamole used to be another thing. But why is it okay to have cravings for these things but not sweets? I mean if a craving is strong enough to cause you to over eat and go into your deficit, is that okay because it's not a demonized no nutritional value food like sweets are? are you just supposed to eliminate everything that becomes a craving? Or am i the only person in the world who gets cravings for random foods like this? lol
No, I think others of us get cravings for random foods - although, for me, I can usually eat some and I'm done (not so much like your turkey soup kicks, though I do have periods where I eat something every few days for a while then lose interest). I'd say I've craved things like grapefruit or split-pea soup or whatever.
Maybe some people only have cravings for sweets or chips or other so-called "bad" foods . . . but I wonder if in some cases the emotional component (guilt, regret, sense of the forbidden, righteous denial, etc.) just makes those eating desires loom larger psychologically and get defined as "cravings" rather than a simple desire to eat a specific thing.
Y'know, if one wants a salad and eats it, no biggie, but if it's a Snickers bar, there's more "I shouldn't, but it's so good, I can't have it, if I eat it fast when no one's looking I'll feel better, no I feel awful, I've failed, I'm terrible" internal drama about it that it seems like a sugar craving is a major thing, but lettuce and tomatoes with vinaigrette is just food.
I go on kicks. Remember that lunch I mentioned with the rice cakes, cottage cheese and avocado? Right now I can't get enough of that.
A few weeks ago it was cottage cheese with butternut squash and avocado. I ate it every day.
Until I didn't.
But I completely get having cravings for random foods. I've also craved grapefruits and things like clementines, eggplant, chickpeas, asparagus, broth, eggs, tomatoes, caramelized onions, and plain boiled potatoes.
But I don't know, I wonder how much of this is because these foods are foods I regularly eat and I crave them, and if people crave things they eat the most. It's interesting to think about. Don't get me wrong, I still want chocolate now and then, but I also eat that. But it's not the only thing I crave.
Building on some of what you said here, Ann, come to think of it, I usually crave one of those foods if I haven't had them in a while, but since they're part of a perfectly fine diet, it's no biggie. There's not any righteous denial going on, just maybe some seasonal hijinks or menu rotation happening.
So this is leading me to wonder if cravings happen for foods we are regularly intermittently exposed to, no matter what they are, that we somehow are then not consuming for some reason. And that craving has nothing to do with the macronutrient content of the food.
I think there's a huge issue with the negative association the word "crave" has. Like craving something is always a bad thing.
<snip>
So I don't think cravings are bad and this fervent assertion eliminating them is the pinnacle of dietary excellence kind of ridiculous.
My cravings were an impulsive, uncontrollable thing that felt almost impossible to resist in the moment. They were not a normal, healthy reaction to food or something I've blown out of proportion. I'll assume that's not what you or other people who are happy with their cravings experience but what I mean when I say craving is absolutely a bad thing and something I'm well rid of.6 -
@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..2 -
HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Well, let's see, thinking back... remember, I did low carb for 10 years. I still crave soft chewy bread, but I can never have it because celiac disease, but I digress.
Anyway... I think everyone experiences cravings differently, I guess. I know I still craved things and made low carb substitutes and made do with those. I know some people never do the substitutes route, but you'd have to ask one of them who'd low carbed long term what their experience was like.
I don't know many MFP'ers who've had the length of experience low carbing that I did. I do have to say that over time, I didn't rely on as many subs as I did initially. Sort of separated the good ones from the bad, and only stuck to those which made practical sense. So just a few. Ten years was a looooong time.0 -
I dunno... maybe i am just a weirdo.. but.. i can make my own donairs..
(Cause i know people are gonna be like.. what the *kitten* is a donair?!"
But despite that.. eventually i will get a craving for one from a take out place.. even with substitutes available.
i know there are people out there who can just not substitute and just go without.. but i feel like the amount who can compared to the amount of keto enthusiasts claiming as such just don't add up..
you know eventually i am going to look like one of those crazy conspiracy theorists who instead of ranting about a flat earth or the moon landing not happening, I will be jibber jabbering about keto and cravings lol
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Well, I can't speak for everyone, but you have to remember that I live with a disease that means I have to do without.
So living with substitutes is part of my life. So that made it easy for me.
Maybe that's why I made it ten years low carbing. BTW, when I low carbed, I never once "cheated" by eating carbs.
There's the thing. I know a lot of people who low carb have days where they go off the wagon and indulge. I never did.
I don't know for sure the statistics on low carbers. I know some make it long term, but it's not very many. And I know a lot of them do go out and have that thing they're craving and go back on the wagon. Before they fall off again. Maybe completely, maybe to give another way of dieting a try.
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I think thats why i never went low carb when i was diabetic.. I would of never been able to sustain that.. i did make some low carb choices sometimes, but more so cause of the calories.. like i bought low carb pasta, but not cause it was low carb, but because real pasta is 310 calories and this stuff is exactly the same but packed with over 20g of fiber so it brought the calories down to 130 calories.0
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HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Try it for 90 days and see what happens in your case and stop questioning what you are or are not missing by going keto. By the way craving chewy soft fresh bread is an emotional craving. While in about 30 days most of my carb cravings were fading fast remembering the taste, smell and feel of a banana split was strong for more like six months. Three years after cutting out all sugar and all forms of grains my physical carb cravings are still gone but emotional carb cravings can get triggered from time to time but not one that is strong enough to act on I find in my case.29 -
Ironically, the only cravings i cant control are fats. Which is onw reason i could never go keto. And the volume sucks *kitten*... do i couldnt handle that non sense.5
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Ironically, the only cravings i cant control are fats. Which is onw reason i could never go keto. And the volume sucks *kitten*... do i couldnt handle that non sense.
Same. Cheeses, roasted nuts (especially pecans), whipped cream, butter, cured meats, garlic oil, hot oil .. hard to control for me.4 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »HellYeahItsKriss wrote: »@GottaBurnEmAll
So here is a question.. If someone was eating bread and pasta and potatoes and rice before deciding to do keto...
Going with your idea that food is craved based on our time away from it for a while and then we crave it and eat it again or for a while.. if someone was going keto, wouldn't the cravings for those things happen? People doing keto notoriously say that their cravings are gone, but i agree with you, my cravings do usually come when its something i ate for a while, stopped and have not had in a while (short of chocolate) -- its why i don't believe the keto hype about it killing cravings for everyone.. i really believe that most people are riding that new diet motivation. If you ate bread pretty often before and then stopped, eventually there must be a time, regardless of how satiated you are on keto, where you crave chewy soft fresh bread, i really find it hard to believe that everyone just stops wanting everything carb related they ate before..
Try it for 90 days and see what happens in your case and stop questioning what you are or are not missing by going keto. By the way craving chewy soft fresh bread is an emotional craving. While in about 30 days most of my carb cravings were fading fast remembering the taste, smell and feel of a banana split was strong for more like six months. Three years after cutting out all sugar and all forms of grains my physical carb cravings are still gone but emotional carb cravings can get triggered from time to time but not one that is strong enough to act on I find in my case.
Yeah.. I don't need to try it for 90 days
Mostly because I know that I do not feel full on fats simply from almost 3 years experience with playing with macros.
Another reason being I don't like most of the food options besides the meats.
I do not have the budget for meat in that quantity.
I'm patient enough to wait for the threads being made by keto starters stating they are having cravings.10
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