Opinions on the keto diet??

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Replies

  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.

    Did you read the research review?
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.

    Did you read the research review?

    Yes.
  • TripleSnake
    TripleSnake Posts: 77 Member
    edited March 2018
    Keto might work for someone, however, if you feel that it is too much work and something else works for you - great.

    Keto itself will not make you loose weight faster, it only reduces/lowers your blood sugar jumps, so you have way less cravings, naturally want to eat less after some time. However, you still need to eat vegetables and (most likely semi-lean or lean) protein, add some healthy fat (like oil on salad), you still need to count kcal. So you still need to keep kcal deficit, only for some it is easier because of leveled blood sugar.

    For me it DID work (and is still working, because I lost 29+ lbs and managed to stay on for 3+ months, when before I could manage 12-15lbs and a month at most), because I spoiled my all other diets by jumping to sweet-salty-sweet-salty snacks (I do not feel that need anymore), also because I always had problems to get recommended healthy grains and most of my "green stuff" came from fruits.

    P.S. This diet is not new, it just "sold" as new and "all you can eat bacon" diet. Nop. It is not.
  • Mikkimeow
    Mikkimeow Posts: 139 Member
    DomesticKat wrote: »
    You can eat anything you want to lose weight. You just have to create a calorie deficit. I understand the allure of wanting to lose a bunch of weight immediately, but rarely is that sustainable or good for your health, especially if you don't intend to stick to keto for the rest of your life. It's not a race to lose as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. Eat the food you like in a modest deficit, weigh it with a food scale and measure it consistently, and you'll lose weight.

    Thats about the quickest and most to the point version of what I was about to add. Its like Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig, etc. You may lose quickly but can you sustain it for the rest of you life? Sorry, but I would rather stick to something I know I can do when I am ten years down the road, not just until I hit a certain weight or fitness level.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    Sakura_Tree wrote: »
    personally i am against the keto diet because our bodies main/preferred source of energy is carbohydrates. also the keto diet does not allow alot of fruits/vegetables which are key for good health. I see alot of keto recipes with bacon and other processed meats which cause inflammation in the body and can lead to cancer/other illness.

    I’ve never eaten as many servings of fruits and vegetables on a consistent basis as I am now on keto, and if you choose to eat a bunch of bacon on any diet of course you should go for the nitrate-free kind. You don’t have to try anything you don’t want, but these are ridiculous reasons for opposing keto.

    You may not have eaten many fruits or veg pre keto, but it's just a fact that if you do keto carbs are so limited that fruit and maybe even veg become more difficult to fit in.

    As I said before (maybe even on this thread, I lose track), I did keto for a bit as an experiment (I was already doing around 100-120 g of carbs for a while before), and I even kept my carbs higher than most doing keto seem to recommend. Specifically, from my reading I figured 50 g net carbs or lower would be fine, and aimed for that (well, really, around 60-65 total carbs, which tended to be 35 or so net carbs, so gave me some extra room to be safe).

    I limited my carbs to non starchy veg, nuts (not a huge amount), avocado, and about a serving of cottage cheese or yogurt per day, and I had to work to fit that in most days. I do eat LOTS of veg, have for a long time, but I was definitely having to watch them and sometimes sub for something like brussels sprouts which are higher carb than one might think. Fruit didn't fit at all, and certainly not beans or lentils.

    And again that was at carbs that some others doing keto (granted, more often the beginners) insisted were too high. There were a few keto challenges that started (not in the low carb group, in the challenges section) where participants were supposed to stay below 20 and congratulated for being as low as can be -- I recall 5 was not an uncommon number. You just couldn't eat fruit and veg (or even much veg) on that, and for me even the 20 net was a non starter, as I'd have had to limit veg beyond what I personally am happy with.

    The main reason I quit, even though I felt fine on the diet, was that it didn't seem to bring any benefits beyond how I'd been eating before, I wanted to stop thinking about carbs and eat less meat (which for me meant more beans, lentils, pulses), and -- most of all -- I missed fruit. Biggest change in my diet since stopping keto is that I finally got serious about cutting down on meat and have way upped my consumption of beans/lentils and also remembered how much I love fruit and feel good eating it. (I still eat way more veg than fruit.)

    Keto is no more foolproof than any other way of eating, sure. I found myself restricting produce at first, too, and didn’t like it, so I did some more research and found my perspective shifting to maximizing produce, instead.

    I was not "minimizing produce," I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. But on 60-65 total carbs (around 30-35 net carbs -- more than the 20 g net that I kept hearing recommended for keto), I could NOT fit in all the vegetables I wanted, and NO fruit (other than avocado) or beans/lentils (with the exception of occasional black soybeans), even though the only other carbs I ate were a serving of greek yogurt OR cottage cheese plus some nuts or seeds.

    Thus, I don't see how someone can say they INCREASED fruit and veg on keto unless they were eating very little to start (especially re fruit, as I admit my views on how much veg is a desirable minimum was probably a lot higher than average and I would agree that one can fit in a reasonable amount of veg -- but still almost no fruit without sacrificing veg -- on keto). I also notice (again) that many of the most popular keto starter sources recommend fewer (often far fewer) carbs than I was eating, although I do think one could probably get away with 50 g net and still be in ketosis (maybe more depending on size and activity level).

    Mostly I realized I didn't care if I were in ketosis or not, so why worry about keeping carbs so low that I was and sacrificing great things like fruit or beans or worrying about the carbs in brussels sprouts.

    But that's because being in ketosis didn't give me added benefits. For someone for whom it made a huge difference in appetite or some such, then sure, it IS worth the sacrifices.

    That said, when someone claims to have increased fruit and veg (CARBS) a lot or really improved the healthfulness of their diet on keto, I do wonder if the appetite control is more from having a healthful diet, something they obviously could have tried without keto (nothing is stopping anyone from eating all the veg they want on MFP's macros, after all).
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    Sakura_Tree wrote: »
    personally i am against the keto diet because our bodies main/preferred source of energy is carbohydrates. also the keto diet does not allow alot of fruits/vegetables which are key for good health. I see alot of keto recipes with bacon and other processed meats which cause inflammation in the body and can lead to cancer/other illness.

    I’ve never eaten as many servings of fruits and vegetables on a consistent basis as I am now on keto, and if you choose to eat a bunch of bacon on any diet of course you should go for the nitrate-free kind. You don’t have to try anything you don’t want, but these are ridiculous reasons for opposing keto.

    You may not have eaten many fruits or veg pre keto, but it's just a fact that if you do keto carbs are so limited that fruit and maybe even veg become more difficult to fit in.

    As I said before (maybe even on this thread, I lose track), I did keto for a bit as an experiment (I was already doing around 100-120 g of carbs for a while before), and I even kept my carbs higher than most doing keto seem to recommend. Specifically, from my reading I figured 50 g net carbs or lower would be fine, and aimed for that (well, really, around 60-65 total carbs, which tended to be 35 or so net carbs, so gave me some extra room to be safe).

    I limited my carbs to non starchy veg, nuts (not a huge amount), avocado, and about a serving of cottage cheese or yogurt per day, and I had to work to fit that in most days. I do eat LOTS of veg, have for a long time, but I was definitely having to watch them and sometimes sub for something like brussels sprouts which are higher carb than one might think. Fruit didn't fit at all, and certainly not beans or lentils.

    And again that was at carbs that some others doing keto (granted, more often the beginners) insisted were too high. There were a few keto challenges that started (not in the low carb group, in the challenges section) where participants were supposed to stay below 20 and congratulated for being as low as can be -- I recall 5 was not an uncommon number. You just couldn't eat fruit and veg (or even much veg) on that, and for me even the 20 net was a non starter, as I'd have had to limit veg beyond what I personally am happy with.

    The main reason I quit, even though I felt fine on the diet, was that it didn't seem to bring any benefits beyond how I'd been eating before, I wanted to stop thinking about carbs and eat less meat (which for me meant more beans, lentils, pulses), and -- most of all -- I missed fruit. Biggest change in my diet since stopping keto is that I finally got serious about cutting down on meat and have way upped my consumption of beans/lentils and also remembered how much I love fruit and feel good eating it. (I still eat way more veg than fruit.)

    Keto is no more foolproof than any other way of eating, sure. I found myself restricting produce at first, too, and didn’t like it, so I did some more research and found my perspective shifting to maximizing produce, instead.

    I was not "minimizing produce," I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. But on 60-65 total carbs (around 30-35 net carbs -- more than the 20 g net that I kept hearing recommended for keto), I could NOT fit in all the vegetables I wanted, and NO fruit (other than avocado) or beans/lentils (with the exception of occasional black soybeans), even though the only other carbs I ate were a serving of greek yogurt OR cottage cheese plus some nuts or seeds.

    Thus, I don't see how someone can say they INCREASED fruit and veg on keto unless they were eating very little to start (especially re fruit, as I admit my views on how much veg is a desirable minimum was probably a lot higher than average and I would agree that one can fit in a reasonable amount of veg -- but still almost no fruit without sacrificing veg -- on keto). I also notice (again) that many of the most popular keto starter sources recommend fewer (often far fewer) carbs than I was eating, although I do think one could probably get away with 50 g net and still be in ketosis (maybe more depending on size and activity level).

    Mostly I realized I didn't care if I were in ketosis or not, so why worry about keeping carbs so low that I was and sacrificing great things like fruit or beans or worrying about the carbs in brussels sprouts.

    But that's because being in ketosis didn't give me added benefits. For someone for whom it made a huge difference in appetite or some such, then sure, it IS worth the sacrifices.

    That said, when someone claims to have increased fruit and veg (CARBS) a lot or really improved the healthfulness of their diet on keto, I do wonder if the appetite control is more from having a healthful diet, something they obviously could have tried without keto (nothing is stopping anyone from eating all the veg they want on MFP's macros, after all).

    While I did get a good amount of produce into my diet before, I certainly had days where I ate mostly processed foods and didn’t make it a priority. Now that it IS a priority, I’m eating more of it overall, even if I’m not ever sitting to one big salad or a bowl of watermelon. The consistency is what’s raising the numbers.

    As for minimizing: if you were keeping an eye on a hard upper carb limit I’m not sure how you could not. In my first couple weeks of keto I felt like I could barely spare the room for fruit or veggies, because they would cost me too many carbs and then I’d be stuck with none left at the end of the day and have to eat 400 calories of meat straight or something.

    Switching to a ratio perspective made it impossible to eat all my carbs in one meal, because I get new ones every time I eat. That way every meal has room for either a couple servings of low-carb veggies, or a smaller amount of fruit—sometimes both. And I try to eat them all, because otherwise that’s a missed opportunity. :smile:

    BTW I don’t feel the magical, superpower keto high people describe, either. All it really is for me is a benchmark: as long as I test in keto I know I’m not deluding myself about how many carbs I’m really eating. And trying to stay in my keto ratio incentivizes me to be more accurate about things like cooking fats and nuts, because more of those things allows me to eat more carbs. So I’m less likely to “eyeball down” calorie-dense foods, because I WANT their calories. Better logging, more homemade meals, and enthusiasm about produce aren’t direct “side effects,” obviously, but they are benefits of keto for me.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    As for minimizing: if you were keeping an eye on a hard upper carb limit I’m not sure how you could not.

    My "hard" upper carb limit was 50 g net carbs, although I tried to keep it more like 35, as I said.

    I decided to try keto after some discussions at MFP that got me curious, and when I was eating around 100-120 g on average before, so I was pretty aware of how I needed to cut carbs to get down to the desired level. My plan was not to cut vegetables at all, but to cut out fruit (other than avocado) and down to no more than one serving of greek yogurt or other more carby dairy (I generally eat 1-2 servings of nuts/seeds and planned to keep that the same).

    I was a little surprised that I actually did have to watch my veg some or would go over. I do eat a lot of leafy greens, as they are very important to me, and of course they weren't the issue, but I like to have a good variety of other veg and was surprised at how carbs from things like broccoli and cauliflower and the aforementioned brussels sprouts, as well as things like leeks and onions, can add up. I generally think that when eating non starchy veg there shouldn't need to be a limit on them. I was still eating plenty of servings, but fewer than I prefer, and in an ideal world I'd like to be able to fit in fruit without cutting down on things I think are good for me like veg or nuts, and I also would prefer to get more of my protein from non animal sources like beans and lentils, so it wasn't a good fit, although it was an interesting experiment I'm glad I did, and I didn't dislike it.
    In my first couple weeks of keto I felt like I could barely spare the room for fruit or veggies, because they would cost me too many carbs and then I’d be stuck with none left at the end of the day and have to eat 400 calories of meat straight or something.

    See, I started with the assumption that pretty much all my carbs would be vegetables, and that to me is a non negotiable that I would not cut. That's why I got a bad impression when I decided to try a keto challenge (for fun and encouragement from other newbies) and got told that more than 20 was doing it wrong, and when I said I couldn't imagine getting that low without cutting veg was told that that was what I should do.

    I will emphasize that this did not happen in the Low Carb group, which I think is a great resource and full of people with an openness to the whole spectrum of low carb options and who don't push the idea that everyone should do under 20.
    Switching to a ratio perspective made it impossible to eat all my carbs in one meal, because I get new ones every time I eat. That way every meal has room for either a couple servings of low-carb veggies, or a smaller amount of fruit—sometimes both. And I try to eat them all, because otherwise that’s a missed opportunity. :smile:

    Yes, I had vegetables at all meals, that's one of my personal rules. But I was still either going over my intended carb goal or having to have smaller/fewer servings than I am used to.

    For me trying to hit a specific ratio per meal would have made it harder, as one thing I like is flexibility, but I tend to eat most of my non veg carbs at dinner anyway (except that I normally have a salad with nuts or seeds at lunch and would often have half an avocado with breakfast).
    BTW I don’t feel the magical, superpower keto high people describe, either. All it really is for me is a benchmark: as long as I test in keto I know I’m not deluding myself about how many carbs I’m really eating. And trying to stay in my keto ratio incentivizes me to be more accurate about things like cooking fats and nuts, because more of those things allows me to eat more carbs. So I’m less likely to “eyeball down” calorie-dense foods, because I WANT their calories. Better logging, more homemade meals, and enthusiasm about produce aren’t direct “side effects,” obviously, but they are benefits of keto for me.

    Yeah, I totally see how it could be enjoyable for someone or helpful, I'm not anti keto at all. I just think it DOES require restriction of some foods that are quite healthful (contrary to the claim that it was just about restricting things you shouldn't eat anyway), and my own personal experience was that I had to basically eliminate fruit, which I love (I mostly eat it in season so I was good with keto in Feb-May and then quit) and did have to reduce/worry about vegetables more. But I certainly agree that it's possible to get a decent amount of veg, and more than the average American eats (which is deplorable, though) on keto. Just not as many as I personally prefer.
  • fb47
    fb47 Posts: 1,058 Member
    edited March 2018
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    Nothing controversial, it's just that keto community is where people spread the most bs out of all diets out there. I suggest you read some comments from keto users, some comments are just laughable because they spread false information and praise the diet for more than what it is. Look at the comments above me from the keto users, quotes like these "there's not that many healthy carbs outside of vegetables " makes me roll my eyes.

    I did IF on my cut and it's not like I go jump over joy (a-la Tom Cruise) over it, it's only a freaking tool, I know IF is not for everyone, IF is not the best diet or the worst diet, it's on par with any other diet out there, so why should I make a big stink of it like some people do with the keto diet?
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,011 Member
    anthonynaylor wrote: »
    Keto is great. Keeps you eating pretty healthy. If you think about it, there's not that many healthy carbs outside of vegetables (particularly leafy-greens), so it just makes it less to think about.

    Matter of opinion, I guess. I've seen plenty of real world evidence to suggest fruit and whole grains are pretty good for you too.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kimny72 wrote: »
    anthonynaylor wrote: »
    Keto is great. Keeps you eating pretty healthy. If you think about it, there's not that many healthy carbs outside of vegetables (particularly leafy-greens), so it just makes it less to think about.

    Matter of opinion, I guess. I've seen plenty of real world evidence to suggest fruit and whole grains are pretty good for you too.

    Yep. Beans and lentils too.

    I'd even suggest that potatoes and sweet potatoes are pretty healthy. (Gasp!)

    You can eat a really unhealthy diet on keto too. And obviously you can eat a pretty healthy diet, just as with almost any way of eating.
  • 1houndgal
    1houndgal Posts: 558 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    greauxe wrote: »
    greenetaylor27 wrote: »
    I am a mother of two with a very busy schedule! I’ve been logging foods and exercising somewhat regularly for about 2-3 weeks and have lost about 3lbs. I’ve read a lot on how the keto diet can shred you down rather quickly, and “grains and carbs are poison” or what have you.
    To me it just seems like a lot of work and also rather confusing. I’m fairly new to this new healthy lifestyle and didn’t know if anyone similar to my situation had bad luck— or thoughts and opinions ?? Thanks!

    I've lost 21 lbs from Feb 20, 2018 to Mar 15, 2018. I did it by initially fasting (zero food, just water) for three days which put me into ketosis very quickly (I use test strips to verify). Six pounds were gone in the first week and I dropped an average of around 5-7 lbs/week in the following weeks. The reason I fasted was to hit keto quickly as it would normally take about three weeks of a really low carb diet to get there otherwise. I've maintained a strict diet of no more than 30 carbs daily and have fasted intermittently, ie 18 hours without eating, etc from time to time. My goal is to lose 25 MORE pounds after which I'll adopt a more normal diet- still watching my carbs. My blood pressure has gone down (to a normal range) since losing the weight and I feel great. I told my Dr. what I did to lose the weight so quickly and she was thrilled. She's been wanting me to lose weight for a while and she reminded me to keep up my protein intake, eat avocados (healthy fat), fiber, and of course water. I've somehow become accustomed to eating one meal (or no meals) daily which is no small feat for a guy who used to eat WAY too much. Anyway don't rule out keto for a quick weight loss, but understand that it's not really sustainable. You'll probably grow tired of it after a while.

    How much muscle mass do you think you lost during that period of rapid weight loss? 21 lbs in 23 days is almost a lb per day. Some was water weight, some was fat, some was muscle mass.

    A lot of that weight loss is water. And some fat loss. And some muscle loss.

    Losing so much weight so fast is unsafe. And the consequences can be adverse and even life-long.
  • 1houndgal
    1houndgal Posts: 558 Member
    sunfastrose wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    karintalley wrote: »
    I prefer the "eat all you want and lose weight diet". Like drinking wine, , eating chocolate and cheese and BREAD, and lose 1 pound a week...diet.

    I'm glad that works for you. Last time I took a diet break and ate all I wanted, I gained 32 lbs. in 20 days. Of that 32 lbs., 19 was fat.

    But she didn't say she ate all she wanted. She eats a variety of foods and is able to make her choices in such a way that she is in a caloric deficit.

    Of that 32 pounds you regained, much is water.
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