Opinions on the keto diet??

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Replies

  • CharlieBeansmomTracey
    CharlieBeansmomTracey Posts: 7,682 Member
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    It works for me because I’m a lifelong binge-eater, and on keto I don’t binge. It’s not because I’m less hungry; I still get hungry now and I was always more than ready to binge whether I was hungry or not, so that just doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference to me. I just feel in control of my eating now, and like food is something I need to fuel activity. Since I was a kid I haven’t gone more than two or MAYBE three days in a row without eating something I “didn’t mean to”; now I’ve taken two planned breaks in 2.5 months and hopped right back on the wagon after each. It’s just...not difficult. I’m 37, and it’s ALWAYS been difficult.

    So whether keto helps a person would, I think, depend heavily on why they’re overeating in the first place. We’re not all the same.
  • concordancia
    concordancia Posts: 5,320 Member
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    That isn't what is controversial; people claiming that it is biochemical magic is what is controversial.

    What veggies are people eating? I am not aiming for keto, but nuts and veggies put me above 50 most days (dairy puts me a bit higher yet).

  • Running_and_Coffee
    Running_and_Coffee Posts: 811 Member
    concordancia wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    That isn't what is controversial; people claiming that it is biochemical magic is what is controversial.

    What veggies are people eating? I am not aiming for keto, but nuts and veggies put me above 50 most days (dairy puts me a bit higher yet).

    The goal is net carbs, not total carbs, and veggies have a lot of fiber that offsets that. (My diary is open.) I eat salads every day, veggies with my eggs, celery with snacks. I'm a religious measurer/weigher and am especially careful with the fats not to over-eat.
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    edited March 2018
    concordancia wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    That isn't what is controversial; people claiming that it is biochemical magic is what is controversial.

    What veggies are people eating? I am not aiming for keto, but nuts and veggies put me above 50 most days (dairy puts me a bit higher yet).

    You can get a lot more in if you look at net and ignore total carbs entirely.

    I ate a piece of spinach quiche today (with a nut “crust”) beside a plate of arugula and a few ounces of pineapple, and later I had some salami with raspberries. Dinner tonight is going to be a chicken soup I mixed some eggs & Parmesan into that also has a pound of vegetable “confetti rice,” a bunch of zucchini & summer squash noodles, half a bag of frozen mushrooms, and a couple of cups of baby kale. It’s basically a rich broth with a pile of veggies in it and the occasional chunk of chicken.

    Trying to limit your total carbs will absolutely make you steer away from produce! I really don’t recommend even looking at that number for keto. I aim to keep my net carbs between 5-10% of my calories (multiply the grams by four to see how many calories they account for) and really haven’t had a problem getting veggies in since.

    The easiest to eat in bulk are low-calorie/high-fiber: most leafy greens, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, mushrooms, and zucchini top the list. Oh! Artichokes are pretty good, too. But you can fit in plenty of others in small amounts if you look for opportunities! When my salad bar has steamed beets I ALWAYS add 1/4-1/2 a cup and eat something high-cal/low-carb with them to balance them out. It’s like a currency system, and it’s been working well for me.
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.

    Did you read the research review?
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    mmapags wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »
    Running_and_Coffee wrote: »
    Keto makes the CICO at a deficit easier. For some people. (Like me.) Why is this controversial? There are thousands of diets out there.

    BTW, I eat a ton of veggies!!!

    for some it may make it easier sure because maybe they can adhere to their calories. but that doesnt mean that you still cant overeat doing keto and gain weight. I did keto and for me it did not help with suppressing my appetite at all. not to mention keto for me is a no no due to health issues. Its controversial because so many believe things about keto that arent true and arent proven.

    Yeah, I don’t really buy the “appetite suppressant” thing and I think it misleads a lot of people. There’s a huge emotional component to satiety and cravings for most people that have nothing to do with the, like, .5% fuller that fat might hypothetically make us physically feel.

    A summary of the research says the "appetite suppressant" thing seems to be true.
    https://sci-fit.net/ketogenic-diet-hunger-suppression/

    FTR, I am not an advocate of Keto. I am an advocate of evidence based information though.

    I get you, but most people, when they’re hungry, aren’t comparing that hunger to when they were eating a different diet and making food decisions based on that. So when they read “suppresses appetite,” they tend to assume that if they’re hungry at all they’re doing something wrong, which is not my experience of losing weight on keto.

    I get hungry plenty; I just am able to stay in control of my eating. For those of us whose overeating wasn’t ever hunger-based in the first place, that’s a much bigger deal than possibly being slightly less hungry.

    Did you read the research review?

    Yes.
  • TripleSnake
    TripleSnake Posts: 77 Member
    edited March 2018
    Keto might work for someone, however, if you feel that it is too much work and something else works for you - great.

    Keto itself will not make you loose weight faster, it only reduces/lowers your blood sugar jumps, so you have way less cravings, naturally want to eat less after some time. However, you still need to eat vegetables and (most likely semi-lean or lean) protein, add some healthy fat (like oil on salad), you still need to count kcal. So you still need to keep kcal deficit, only for some it is easier because of leveled blood sugar.

    For me it DID work (and is still working, because I lost 29+ lbs and managed to stay on for 3+ months, when before I could manage 12-15lbs and a month at most), because I spoiled my all other diets by jumping to sweet-salty-sweet-salty snacks (I do not feel that need anymore), also because I always had problems to get recommended healthy grains and most of my "green stuff" came from fruits.

    P.S. This diet is not new, it just "sold" as new and "all you can eat bacon" diet. Nop. It is not.
  • Mikkimeow
    Mikkimeow Posts: 139 Member
    DomesticKat wrote: »
    You can eat anything you want to lose weight. You just have to create a calorie deficit. I understand the allure of wanting to lose a bunch of weight immediately, but rarely is that sustainable or good for your health, especially if you don't intend to stick to keto for the rest of your life. It's not a race to lose as much weight as possible as quickly as possible. Eat the food you like in a modest deficit, weigh it with a food scale and measure it consistently, and you'll lose weight.

    Thats about the quickest and most to the point version of what I was about to add. Its like Atkins, South Beach, Jenny Craig, etc. You may lose quickly but can you sustain it for the rest of you life? Sorry, but I would rather stick to something I know I can do when I am ten years down the road, not just until I hit a certain weight or fitness level.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    Sakura_Tree wrote: »
    personally i am against the keto diet because our bodies main/preferred source of energy is carbohydrates. also the keto diet does not allow alot of fruits/vegetables which are key for good health. I see alot of keto recipes with bacon and other processed meats which cause inflammation in the body and can lead to cancer/other illness.

    I’ve never eaten as many servings of fruits and vegetables on a consistent basis as I am now on keto, and if you choose to eat a bunch of bacon on any diet of course you should go for the nitrate-free kind. You don’t have to try anything you don’t want, but these are ridiculous reasons for opposing keto.

    You may not have eaten many fruits or veg pre keto, but it's just a fact that if you do keto carbs are so limited that fruit and maybe even veg become more difficult to fit in.

    As I said before (maybe even on this thread, I lose track), I did keto for a bit as an experiment (I was already doing around 100-120 g of carbs for a while before), and I even kept my carbs higher than most doing keto seem to recommend. Specifically, from my reading I figured 50 g net carbs or lower would be fine, and aimed for that (well, really, around 60-65 total carbs, which tended to be 35 or so net carbs, so gave me some extra room to be safe).

    I limited my carbs to non starchy veg, nuts (not a huge amount), avocado, and about a serving of cottage cheese or yogurt per day, and I had to work to fit that in most days. I do eat LOTS of veg, have for a long time, but I was definitely having to watch them and sometimes sub for something like brussels sprouts which are higher carb than one might think. Fruit didn't fit at all, and certainly not beans or lentils.

    And again that was at carbs that some others doing keto (granted, more often the beginners) insisted were too high. There were a few keto challenges that started (not in the low carb group, in the challenges section) where participants were supposed to stay below 20 and congratulated for being as low as can be -- I recall 5 was not an uncommon number. You just couldn't eat fruit and veg (or even much veg) on that, and for me even the 20 net was a non starter, as I'd have had to limit veg beyond what I personally am happy with.

    The main reason I quit, even though I felt fine on the diet, was that it didn't seem to bring any benefits beyond how I'd been eating before, I wanted to stop thinking about carbs and eat less meat (which for me meant more beans, lentils, pulses), and -- most of all -- I missed fruit. Biggest change in my diet since stopping keto is that I finally got serious about cutting down on meat and have way upped my consumption of beans/lentils and also remembered how much I love fruit and feel good eating it. (I still eat way more veg than fruit.)

    Keto is no more foolproof than any other way of eating, sure. I found myself restricting produce at first, too, and didn’t like it, so I did some more research and found my perspective shifting to maximizing produce, instead.

    I was not "minimizing produce," I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. But on 60-65 total carbs (around 30-35 net carbs -- more than the 20 g net that I kept hearing recommended for keto), I could NOT fit in all the vegetables I wanted, and NO fruit (other than avocado) or beans/lentils (with the exception of occasional black soybeans), even though the only other carbs I ate were a serving of greek yogurt OR cottage cheese plus some nuts or seeds.

    Thus, I don't see how someone can say they INCREASED fruit and veg on keto unless they were eating very little to start (especially re fruit, as I admit my views on how much veg is a desirable minimum was probably a lot higher than average and I would agree that one can fit in a reasonable amount of veg -- but still almost no fruit without sacrificing veg -- on keto). I also notice (again) that many of the most popular keto starter sources recommend fewer (often far fewer) carbs than I was eating, although I do think one could probably get away with 50 g net and still be in ketosis (maybe more depending on size and activity level).

    Mostly I realized I didn't care if I were in ketosis or not, so why worry about keeping carbs so low that I was and sacrificing great things like fruit or beans or worrying about the carbs in brussels sprouts.

    But that's because being in ketosis didn't give me added benefits. For someone for whom it made a huge difference in appetite or some such, then sure, it IS worth the sacrifices.

    That said, when someone claims to have increased fruit and veg (CARBS) a lot or really improved the healthfulness of their diet on keto, I do wonder if the appetite control is more from having a healthful diet, something they obviously could have tried without keto (nothing is stopping anyone from eating all the veg they want on MFP's macros, after all).
  • FlyingMolly
    FlyingMolly Posts: 490 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    FlyingMolly wrote: »
    Sakura_Tree wrote: »
    personally i am against the keto diet because our bodies main/preferred source of energy is carbohydrates. also the keto diet does not allow alot of fruits/vegetables which are key for good health. I see alot of keto recipes with bacon and other processed meats which cause inflammation in the body and can lead to cancer/other illness.

    I’ve never eaten as many servings of fruits and vegetables on a consistent basis as I am now on keto, and if you choose to eat a bunch of bacon on any diet of course you should go for the nitrate-free kind. You don’t have to try anything you don’t want, but these are ridiculous reasons for opposing keto.

    You may not have eaten many fruits or veg pre keto, but it's just a fact that if you do keto carbs are so limited that fruit and maybe even veg become more difficult to fit in.

    As I said before (maybe even on this thread, I lose track), I did keto for a bit as an experiment (I was already doing around 100-120 g of carbs for a while before), and I even kept my carbs higher than most doing keto seem to recommend. Specifically, from my reading I figured 50 g net carbs or lower would be fine, and aimed for that (well, really, around 60-65 total carbs, which tended to be 35 or so net carbs, so gave me some extra room to be safe).

    I limited my carbs to non starchy veg, nuts (not a huge amount), avocado, and about a serving of cottage cheese or yogurt per day, and I had to work to fit that in most days. I do eat LOTS of veg, have for a long time, but I was definitely having to watch them and sometimes sub for something like brussels sprouts which are higher carb than one might think. Fruit didn't fit at all, and certainly not beans or lentils.

    And again that was at carbs that some others doing keto (granted, more often the beginners) insisted were too high. There were a few keto challenges that started (not in the low carb group, in the challenges section) where participants were supposed to stay below 20 and congratulated for being as low as can be -- I recall 5 was not an uncommon number. You just couldn't eat fruit and veg (or even much veg) on that, and for me even the 20 net was a non starter, as I'd have had to limit veg beyond what I personally am happy with.

    The main reason I quit, even though I felt fine on the diet, was that it didn't seem to bring any benefits beyond how I'd been eating before, I wanted to stop thinking about carbs and eat less meat (which for me meant more beans, lentils, pulses), and -- most of all -- I missed fruit. Biggest change in my diet since stopping keto is that I finally got serious about cutting down on meat and have way upped my consumption of beans/lentils and also remembered how much I love fruit and feel good eating it. (I still eat way more veg than fruit.)

    Keto is no more foolproof than any other way of eating, sure. I found myself restricting produce at first, too, and didn’t like it, so I did some more research and found my perspective shifting to maximizing produce, instead.

    I was not "minimizing produce," I'm not sure how you got that from what I said. But on 60-65 total carbs (around 30-35 net carbs -- more than the 20 g net that I kept hearing recommended for keto), I could NOT fit in all the vegetables I wanted, and NO fruit (other than avocado) or beans/lentils (with the exception of occasional black soybeans), even though the only other carbs I ate were a serving of greek yogurt OR cottage cheese plus some nuts or seeds.

    Thus, I don't see how someone can say they INCREASED fruit and veg on keto unless they were eating very little to start (especially re fruit, as I admit my views on how much veg is a desirable minimum was probably a lot higher than average and I would agree that one can fit in a reasonable amount of veg -- but still almost no fruit without sacrificing veg -- on keto). I also notice (again) that many of the most popular keto starter sources recommend fewer (often far fewer) carbs than I was eating, although I do think one could probably get away with 50 g net and still be in ketosis (maybe more depending on size and activity level).

    Mostly I realized I didn't care if I were in ketosis or not, so why worry about keeping carbs so low that I was and sacrificing great things like fruit or beans or worrying about the carbs in brussels sprouts.

    But that's because being in ketosis didn't give me added benefits. For someone for whom it made a huge difference in appetite or some such, then sure, it IS worth the sacrifices.

    That said, when someone claims to have increased fruit and veg (CARBS) a lot or really improved the healthfulness of their diet on keto, I do wonder if the appetite control is more from having a healthful diet, something they obviously could have tried without keto (nothing is stopping anyone from eating all the veg they want on MFP's macros, after all).

    While I did get a good amount of produce into my diet before, I certainly had days where I ate mostly processed foods and didn’t make it a priority. Now that it IS a priority, I’m eating more of it overall, even if I’m not ever sitting to one big salad or a bowl of watermelon. The consistency is what’s raising the numbers.

    As for minimizing: if you were keeping an eye on a hard upper carb limit I’m not sure how you could not. In my first couple weeks of keto I felt like I could barely spare the room for fruit or veggies, because they would cost me too many carbs and then I’d be stuck with none left at the end of the day and have to eat 400 calories of meat straight or something.

    Switching to a ratio perspective made it impossible to eat all my carbs in one meal, because I get new ones every time I eat. That way every meal has room for either a couple servings of low-carb veggies, or a smaller amount of fruit—sometimes both. And I try to eat them all, because otherwise that’s a missed opportunity. :smile:

    BTW I don’t feel the magical, superpower keto high people describe, either. All it really is for me is a benchmark: as long as I test in keto I know I’m not deluding myself about how many carbs I’m really eating. And trying to stay in my keto ratio incentivizes me to be more accurate about things like cooking fats and nuts, because more of those things allows me to eat more carbs. So I’m less likely to “eyeball down” calorie-dense foods, because I WANT their calories. Better logging, more homemade meals, and enthusiasm about produce aren’t direct “side effects,” obviously, but they are benefits of keto for me.

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