Opinions on the keto diet??

Oh my. So much woo in a first post!

It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.

I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.

I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.

Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.

My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.

I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.

The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.

Good luck and good health to all of you.

dlebout1 wrote: »

The diet really is the only solution for individuals with insulin resistance to successfully lose weight and regain a healthy metabolism.

Not true, many people go into remission with T2D or IR simply by losing weight, eating a healthful diet, and moderating how they consume carbs. While an extreme low carb approach will deal with the symptoms of IR, and if you also successfully lose you may also go into remission, simply low carbing addresses the symptoms, not the actual issue -- unlike the people who go into remission, someone just controlling the symptoms will have a blood sugar spike and insulin issues again if they eat, say, a potato or some bread.

The only way to be successful with keto is to focus on the food you can eat and understand that many of us are basically allergic to sugar. If you were allergic to peanuts you would avoid them wouldn't you?

IR is not like being allergic to sugar.

Also, keto is not promoted only to those who are IR; am I the only one bored with the discussion of IR taking over every single conversation?

Is it the diet for everyone? Probably not but calories in calories out is not either. Calorie restriction will eventually lower your BMR and weight loss will stop.

CICO is not a diet, it's how weight loss works. In particular, it is how keto causes weight loss when it does.

Yes, as maintenance goes down, if you don't increase your calories weight loss will stop. Some choose their maintenance at eventual goal weight as their weight loss goal as a result. My weight loss goal (around 1500-1600) was less than my maintenance TDEE, and I expect that's common too.

Calorie restriction done right doesn't lower your BMR significantly, but weight loss does.

The fundamental truth behind keto is that your body cannot burn fat when it is in fat storage mode which is what happens in the presence of insulin.

The idea that you have to do keto to lose weight is obviously false, and really does not stand up to the red face test. OBVIOUSLY people not doing keto lose weight (and insulin resistance itself makes it hard to turn carbs into fat, btw).

Eating carbs doesn't mean you can't burn fat. There will be periods of time near meals when you will burn less fat, but over the course of a day, if the deficit is the same, the body fat burned will be about the same. No studies suggest a superiority of keto for burning body fat (i.e., metabolism).

The first month or so you should be under 20 net carbs to get yourself firmly into ketosis but after that you can have days when you have 50 net carbs without kicking yourself out of ketosis. Just don't do it day after day.

I'll just note this for the other conversation where I was pointing out that many push versions of keto that certainly would lead to reducing veg and basically eliminating fruit and beans and such.

I'll also note that no one says it can't be a good option for people who find it an easier way to lose weight, but the idea that it should be promoted with false information or is for all or is healthier than other ways to lose are problems that should be disputed with the correct facts.

I'm sorry these threads tend to include so much of this stuff, as many people doing keto understand the facts and simply find it an easier way to lose and don't try to preach to everyone rest or claim it's the one true way to lose.

lemurcat12 wrote: »

dlebout1 wrote: »

The diet really is the only solution for individuals with insulin resistance to successfully lose weight and regain a healthy metabolism.

Not true, many people go into remission with T2D or IR simply by losing weight, eating a healthful diet, and moderating how they consume carbs. While an extreme low carb approach will deal with the symptoms of IR, and if you also successfully lose you may also go into remission, simply low carbing addresses the symptoms, not the actual issue -- unlike the people who go into remission, someone just controlling the symptoms will have a blood sugar spike and insulin issues again if they eat, say, a potato or some bread.

The only way to be successful with keto is to focus on the food you can eat and understand that many of us are basically allergic to sugar. If you were allergic to peanuts you would avoid them wouldn't you?

IR is not like being allergic to sugar.

Also, keto is not promoted only to those who are IR; am I the only one bored with the discussion of IR taking over every single conversation?

Is it the diet for everyone? Probably not but calories in calories out is not either. Calorie restriction will eventually lower your BMR and weight loss will stop.

CICO is not a diet, it's how weight loss works. In particular, it is how keto causes weight loss when it does.

Yes, as maintenance goes down, if you don't increase your calories weight loss will stop. Some choose their maintenance at eventual goal weight as their weight loss goal as a result. My weight loss goal (around 1500-1600) was less than my maintenance TDEE, and I expect that's common too.

Calorie restriction done right doesn't lower your BMR significantly, but weight loss does.

The fundamental truth behind keto is that your body cannot burn fat when it is in fat storage mode which is what happens in the presence of insulin.

The idea that you have to do keto to lose weight is obviously false, and really does not stand up to the red face test. OBVIOUSLY people not doing keto lose weight (and insulin resistance itself makes it hard to turn carbs into fat, btw).

Eating carbs doesn't mean you can't burn fat. There will be periods of time near meals when you will burn less fat, but over the course of a day, if the deficit is the same, the body fat burned will be about the same. No studies suggest a superiority of keto for burning body fat (i.e., metabolism).

The first month or so you should be under 20 net carbs to get yourself firmly into ketosis but after that you can have days when you have 50 net carbs without kicking yourself out of ketosis. Just don't do it day after day.

I'll just note this for the other conversation where I was pointing out that many push versions of keto that certainly would lead to reducing veg and basically eliminating fruit and beans and such.

I'll also note that no one says it can't be a good option for people who find it an easier way to lose weight, but the idea that it should be promoted with false information or is for all or is healthier than other ways to lose are problems that should be disputed with the correct facts.

I may have been insulin resistant and may have been prediabetic but didn't want to find out. All I knew was that left to my own discernment, my diet mostly consisted of bags of Hershey Miniatures, Smores PopTarts or enormous bowls of Honey Bunches of Oats cereal (the size would boggle your mind), Doritos, and booze, with a couple actual meals spattered in that were carb heavy.

Keto cut out foods I way overate every single day. It helped me learn portions, and about macronutrients and micronutrients. It helped me divorce myself from my dysfunctional relationship with foods in general. I learned to enjoy veggies. Now that I am no longer keto, I eat 3 servings of veggies just at supper because I like it. I still don't eat fruit. I never cared for it overmuch. I eat more on the weekends (calorie budgeting) so that I can enjoy starches and some dessert on those days within reason.

So for me, it was fantastic. But not everyone has the particular issues I had. After month 3, despite everyone around me yelling "Calories don't matter" and "It's the insulin, dummy," I stalled out. So I came here and started counting. I continued on to lose the rest of my weight doing both keto and calorie counting. Which is the way everything works at it's base.

I'm sorry these threads tend to include so much of this stuff, as many people doing keto understand the facts and simply find it an easier way to lose and don't try to preach to everyone rest or claim it's the one true way to lose.

That's the way it goes, though, doesn't it? We are having a good conversation giving good information. But then comes someone with woo and the unicorn wands. Then the others come. That's why I've stayed away and don't post in the Main Forums much. It's frustrating for the keto folk who really are educated because this always happens. There really ARE keto people who get it. But there are so many people, plus new ones all the time now who listen to the umpteem million misinformative podcasts and blog-gurus.

Keto is great, for those whose personalities and needs it fits. But biochemistry and scientific literature, IME and admittedly I'm not the biggest science genius there ever was, all the claims made on the daily just aren't borne out by science.

Sorry to clutter your thoughts with this but I think it needs to be reposted. Again. For others reading. How LC Diets Work from the Ketoer-in-Know POV.






Of course, where it says "Simpler to Understand and Follow" (other than the issue that I think they should have used "More simple" ) I think we all agree that's subjective but from a keto/LCHF POV, some people do find it so.

Simple and easy are 2 completely different things, right?
What aggravates the heck out of me is calorie counting. I've done it for over 3 years now so that's not the thing about it. All my fave foods are mostly in there. Last night...my app decided to forget all my recipes on the site, so I had to reenter one I use at least once a week...again... on the fly while I was trying to cook the thing. So DH started making fun of me. All the inputing and then my silent curses because I had to change all the things because it used crazy entries...MFP Problems. It was so much more simple to just count carbs. But it also didn't work. That's why I'm here.

dlebout1 wrote: »

Oh my. So much woo in a first post!

It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.

I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.

I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.

Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.

My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.

I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.

The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.

Good luck and good health to all of you.

People with IR have additional variables that need to be addressed due to the over production of insulin. Your bodies inability to regulate that does not mean insulin is bad. Insulin severes a critical role of shuttling nutrients into cells.

Depending on your severity, diabetes and IR management can occur bettet or more efficiently with low carbs, slow carb or ketogenic depending on ones ability to adhere.

But to equate a diet high in carbs because insulin, would be wrong. Every single country that is denoted as the healthiest and longest living is carb based. That is fact. The biggest difference is they are active, have little amounts of ultra processed foods and eat about half the calories as American.

What matters, for a large part, is proper weight managment and exercise. The diet can help with satiety and address other varibles.

And if you look at a diet that is isocaloric and holds protein equally, there is no different in fat loss or insulin sensitivity post study.

SimplyAdia wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

SimplyAdia wrote: »

Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.

CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.

Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.

Wrong, you either have a health issue that can be problematic for weight loss, but that represents only 1% of the population or simply your doctor doesn't know anything about nutrition and simply gave you keto because he figures it's easier for him to make you lose weight by restricting an entire macro and it's less hassle for him or her. For 99% of the world population, CICO prevails.

SimplyAdia wrote: »

fb47 wrote: »

SimplyAdia wrote: »

CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »

SimplyAdia wrote: »

Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.

CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.

Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.

Wrong, you either have a health issue that can be problematic for weight loss, but that represents only 1% of the population or simply your doctor doesn't know anything about nutrition and simply gave you keto because he figures it's easier for him to make you lose weight by restricting an entire macro and it's less hassle for him or her. For 99% of the world population, CICO prevails.

I've seen 4 endocrinologists that all suggested the same thing. Eliminate bread, pasta, rice, no fruit or any other sugary sweets.

I'm not here for an argument. I was just sharing my experience. When I was doing 2200 calories with a higher carb lower fat macro split, I was struggling to lose weight for a year. When I turned to 2200 calories with a lower carb and higher fat macro split, I started to consistently lose 1lb a week. That's all I'm saying.

Read what I said about health issue. You either have a health issue that makes weight loss problematic or you have terrible doctors. Your body is not special, it's either one or the other. As I've said the majority of the population will lose weight on a caloric deficit.