Opinions on the keto diet??
Replies
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SimplyAdia wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.
CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.
Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.
Wrong. Claiming 'CICO doesn't work for me' is saying you can create energy from nothing or make ingested energy just disappear. CICO is immutable. It applies to everyone!!!7 -
russelljam08 wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.
CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.
Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.
Wrong. Claiming 'CICO doesn't work for me' is saying you can create energy from nothing or make ingested energy just disappear. CICO is immutable. It applies to everyone!!!
To add to this, some health issues may change the numbers, but the equation remains the same. It just means that for some people, what thought thought was their TDEE was too high. That doesn't invalidate CICO, it just changes the numbers. Then there are those pretty rare individuals with health conditions that change the variables again. Still doesn't invalidate the CICO equation, just changes the variables.7 -
SimplyAdia wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.
CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.
Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.
Wrong, you either have a health issue that can be problematic for weight loss, but that represents only 1% of the population or simply your doctor doesn't know anything about nutrition and simply gave you keto because he figures it's easier for him to make you lose weight by restricting an entire macro and it's less hassle for him or her. For 99% of the world population, CICO prevails.
I've seen 4 endocrinologists that all suggested the same thing. Eliminate bread, pasta, rice, no fruit or any other sugary sweets.
I'm not here for an argument. I was just sharing my experience. When I was doing 2200 calories with a higher carb lower fat macro split, I was struggling to lose weight for a year. When I turned to 2200 calories with a lower carb and higher fat macro split, I started to consistently lose 1lb a week. That's all I'm saying.
Read what I said about health issue. You either have a health issue that makes weight loss problematic or you have terrible doctors. Your body is not special, it's either one or the other. As I've said the majority of the population will lose weight on a caloric deficit.
I agree, except - 100% of the population will lose weight (fat) in a caloric deficit. Issues with CO or CI can make it extremely difficult, granted, but if a person is burning more than they are eating, they will lose fat.
I do agree with 99% if you are including non-fat sources of weight such as edema
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SimplyAdia wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »SimplyAdia wrote: »Keto is working for me. I'm not someone yelling carbs are evil, but I have PCOS and insulin resistance. CICO just wasn't working. Now I do CICO with low carbs and I'm losing weight and my glucose is going down.
CICO works for all ways of eating. so if it wasnt working for you and you werent losing then you werent in a deficit of calories.CICO is an energy balance and a calorie is a unit of energy. so you cant say CICO didnt work before but it works in keto. CICO is calories in calories out.if calories you take in are higher than you burn you gain,if they are less you lose and if they are equal you maintain weight.
Not true. I was/am under doctor supervision and eating a balance diet and exercising were not producing results. The toast and fruit in the morning or rice with dinner was not putting me at a surplus. I was still eating a little above my BMR and below my TDEE and was not losing weight. When I had bloodwork done and it showed pre-diabetes, my doctor told me to adjust my macro percentages foe keto. I dropped down to 5% carbs and now I'm losing weight eating the same amount of calories. So yes, I can say CICO was not working for me because my carbs were too high.
This doesn't mean you defy CICO, it means when you changed your macros, you either become more compliant or greater accuracy with food loggin, it enabled you to move more/enabled greater energy output (i.e., involuntary movements), etc..
It doesn't mean it disproves CICO, because those are the laws of energy balance. It's no different than how I lost more weight on 2300 calories per day than I ever did on 1800 calories. Doesn't means I defy CICO.6 -
russelljam08 wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »russelljam08 wrote: »anthonynaylor wrote: »
Matter of opinion, I guess. I've seen plenty of real world evidence to suggest fruit and whole grains are pretty good for you too.
Yeah, it's debatable, but I think the benefits of fruits and whole grains are trumped out by just eating veggies. And if you have a problem with unhealthy carbs, then it just cancels that option out and makes it simple. But if you have a sweet tooth then fruits are a good alternative and are relatively keto-friendly.
Honestly, that is just nonsense. Maybe you should think about it.
Welcome to another keto threadlemurcat12 wrote: »
Matter of opinion, I guess. I've seen plenty of real world evidence to suggest fruit and whole grains are pretty good for you too.
Yep. Beans and lentils too.
I'd even suggest that potatoes and sweet potatoes are pretty healthy. (Gasp!)
You can eat a really unhealthy diet on keto too. And obviously you can eat a pretty healthy diet, just as with almost any way of eating.
Beans, lentils and potatoes are healthy yes and also can be keto-friendly given your carb-restriction.
So you think folks who live in the Blue Zones, who for generations have eaten moderate to high carb diets full of fruits, veggies, grains, nuts, beans, and wine and live active lives into their 100s, would be healthier if they cut out the fruits and grains and ate more fatty meat and cheese?
This^ The longest living and healthiest cultures eat high carb low fat. There are no cultures in chronic ketosis. In fact, evolution protects against it. Ketosis is a metabolic wasteland
While the statement about ketosis is medically false they do eat carbs and lower levels of fats often.
What they do not live on is a SAD WOE high in highly processed sugars and grains.
That is why the sources of our calories are mission critical when it comes to our health.
Ketosis is a byproduct of starvation along with all the negative hormonal effects.
The SAD WOE is high in saturated fat. Traditional cultures that start eating more like SAD(high saturated fat) they start to get diabetic. Asians are the perfect example. All these cultures have ALWAYS eaten grain, so you can take that BS to the rest home. Stay in your scope
No, ketosis is not a byproduct of starvation. It is the result of low carb consumption. It is quite possible to eat a caloric surplus while in ketosis, and gain weight.6 -
russelljam08 wrote: »Wrong. Claiming 'CICO doesn't work for me' is saying you can create energy from nothing or make ingested energy just disappear. CICO is immutable. It applies to everyone!!!
Not saying at all that CICO "doesn't work", but there are some variations in food absorption. For example, nuts ingestion in the following case proved to be 128 calories, although 170 was on the label.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-hidden-truths-about-calories/
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russelljam08 wrote: »Wrong. Claiming 'CICO doesn't work for me' is saying you can create energy from nothing or make ingested energy just disappear. CICO is immutable. It applies to everyone!!!
Not saying at all that CICO "doesn't work", but there are some variations in food absorption. For example, nuts ingestion in the following case proved to be 128 calories, although 170 was on the label.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-hidden-truths-about-calories/
The same can be said about fiber. That doesn't mean it changes CICO. While many don't know it, CI is actually the amount of calories that your body metabolizes into energy. But since you can't track that, they discuss calories eaten.7 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.2 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
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anthonynaylor wrote: »Keto is great. Keeps you eating pretty healthy. If you think about it, there's not that many healthy carbs outside of vegetables (particularly leafy-greens), so it just makes it less to think about.
That's actually completely ridiculous...if you actually think about it.10 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.3 -
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.15 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
And why is it always either you are keto or you live off truckloads of carbs (junky carbs no less) with just enough protein thrown in to get by? Why is there never a middle ground?16 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
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Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
Please don't get THAT argument started again!7 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
Please don't get THAT argument started again!
That keto works for weight loss because CI<CO?
I was mentioning that CI may be perceived as lower because the calories listed for the nuts are not what is actually used. CICO is still in effect. of course.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
And why is it always either you are keto or you live off truckloads of carbs (junky carbs no less) with just enough protein thrown in to get by? Why is there never a middle ground?
There is a middle ground, but trying to live there does not work for many keto'ers, so they looked for something that worked better for them. And it is not keto for all who try it.
But for those who it does work well, many want to share their excitement at finally having some weight loss success.
I am fairly sure that if someone was having success eating in moderation and maintaining an appropriate weight, mist would not go looking for a different diet.2 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
There is enough variability in packing calories that it wont matter. And enough individual variety that its all in the wash. And at some point, they should update the packaging to show the correct calorie value.
And people can perceive anything, doesnt make it right.3 -
delete post1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
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At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/12 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.
True. Bariatric surgery reverses diabetes too.
My prediabetes was reversed within a few weeks without almost any weight loss because of a low carb diet. Calling it the flavour of the month with regards to treating diabetes is akin to calling exercise or weight loss the T2D flavour of the month.
A low carb or ketogenic diet is really just another effective treatment tool just like meds, exercise, weight loss, and bariatric surgery or tools to treat T2D.
3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.
Weight loss is not required in the case after bariatric surgery because diabetes can be resolve just days after the surgery. Keep in mind type 2 diabetes is not actually a disease since often it can be fully resolved by a different WOE. Personally I find my Way Of Eating rules where my health is declining or improving. Bariatric surgery and keto are just two ways that some use to fully resolve type 2 diabetics but I am sure there are other ways per other posts that I am reading here.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
I think I saw a similar article in either the National Enquirer or Weekly World News. That any better for you?
3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
I think I saw a similar article in either the National Enquirer or Weekly World News. That any better for you?
Lol! After actually reading the linked article, it is not bad. Overstated but not bad. Just the basic sensationalizing of the training protocol that long distance endurance athletes use to help prolong the time before bonking by doing low carb training. Interesting but not exactly earth shattering.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
The elderly are most susceptible to 'fake news'8
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