Opinions on the keto diet??
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anthonynaylor wrote: »Keto is great. Keeps you eating pretty healthy. If you think about it, there's not that many healthy carbs outside of vegetables (particularly leafy-greens), so it just makes it less to think about.
That's actually completely ridiculous...if you actually think about it.10 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.3 -
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.15 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
And why is it always either you are keto or you live off truckloads of carbs (junky carbs no less) with just enough protein thrown in to get by? Why is there never a middle ground?16 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
1 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
Please don't get THAT argument started again!7 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
Please don't get THAT argument started again!
That keto works for weight loss because CI<CO?
I was mentioning that CI may be perceived as lower because the calories listed for the nuts are not what is actually used. CICO is still in effect. of course.
1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
And why is it always either you are keto or you live off truckloads of carbs (junky carbs no less) with just enough protein thrown in to get by? Why is there never a middle ground?
There is a middle ground, but trying to live there does not work for many keto'ers, so they looked for something that worked better for them. And it is not keto for all who try it.
But for those who it does work well, many want to share their excitement at finally having some weight loss success.
I am fairly sure that if someone was having success eating in moderation and maintaining an appropriate weight, mist would not go looking for a different diet.2 -
Unmetabolized food, like fiber, isn't part of the argument. The only difference with nuts (which it's not all nuts) is that this is a more recent discovery as compared to fiber.
If any argument is going to be made, it's high protein since that has been demonstrated to increase CO.
I think it falls into the CI portion of the argument, whereas protein is on the CO side of it.
Unmeatoblized food, like fiber and nut membranes, do not count towards calories in, because its not metabolized into energy. Its becomes waste.
I know. It reduces CI below what people thought they would have. If you thought you ate 170 kcal of nuts but you only metabolize 140 kcal, that is a perceived reduction in CI. IMO
I suppose you could say it is increased CO since you get rid of it as waste.... Calories coming out?
There is enough variability in packing calories that it wont matter. And enough individual variety that its all in the wash. And at some point, they should update the packaging to show the correct calorie value.
And people can perceive anything, doesnt make it right.3 -
delete post1
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
1 -
At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/12 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.9 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.
True. Bariatric surgery reverses diabetes too.
My prediabetes was reversed within a few weeks without almost any weight loss because of a low carb diet. Calling it the flavour of the month with regards to treating diabetes is akin to calling exercise or weight loss the T2D flavour of the month.
A low carb or ketogenic diet is really just another effective treatment tool just like meds, exercise, weight loss, and bariatric surgery or tools to treat T2D.
3 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »
Oh my. So much woo in a first post!
It's quite clear that you haven't read the thread or you wouldn't be saying that there's little understanding of keto here. Maybe go back and read it, because the vast majority of your points were debunked upthread. The only one you're going to get support for is that it works for you and others. That doesn't make it work for everyone, or even everyone with diabetes or insulin resistance.
I have gone back and read more and see little debunking. I see lots of comments from people who want to eat carbs and will try and find ways to convince others that they are healthy to justify eating them themselves.
I have yet to see a study showing type 2 diabetes being cured by a high carb diet. I am now cured of my diabetes and no one will convince me that consuming the same amount of calories largely from carbs would have done the same.
Is a calorie deficit necessary to lose weight? Obviously. I never meant to say it wasn't. My intention was that there is more to it than that.
My father continues to take more and more drugs to manage his diabetes and he has been maintaining his basically healthy weight for years. But he insists on bread and potatoes with every meal. And he follows the guidelines set by the diabetes association. Imagine that.
I will now leave the discussing to others as I have already got a major distaste for this forum.
The term woo gets thrown around a lot here but it seems those who use it are just as single minded as those they accuse. For every study or claim made there will always be some opposing study and claim. Someone above refers to intermittent fasting as a diet. Well its not a diet. Yet they are here supposedly debunking keto. What makes them an expert? Hell these days it seems everyone is an expert.
Good luck and good health to all of you.
There is a tremendously large middle area between ultra low carb keto and a high carb diet. My dad was type II...he controlled his numbers with his diet and he wasn't remotely keto...nor was he high carb...there's this thing called balance and moderation.
Type 2 is usually a result of being overweight. As soon as you lose the weight, many people improve or are cured. Keto has nothing really to do with that. Type 1 is a whole different ball game
Ketogenic diets can be beneficial to many with T2D in that it can bring down blood glucose and insulin levels without, or before, any weight loss. That was helpful to people like me who were a normal BMI and active when insulin resistance set in.
But yes, most will benefit from weight loss. Exercise and a low carb diet are other things that will probably help with insulin resistance. IF can help some too. And of course, some medications are very helpful.
That is what people who said after they had bariatric surgery also. My diabetes is gone. Again it is because of the weight loss, nothing really to do with Keto. Keto is the flavor of the month.
Weight loss is not required in the case after bariatric surgery because diabetes can be resolve just days after the surgery. Keep in mind type 2 diabetes is not actually a disease since often it can be fully resolved by a different WOE. Personally I find my Way Of Eating rules where my health is declining or improving. Bariatric surgery and keto are just two ways that some use to fully resolve type 2 diabetics but I am sure there are other ways per other posts that I am reading here.10 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
I think I saw a similar article in either the National Enquirer or Weekly World News. That any better for you?
3 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
I think I saw a similar article in either the National Enquirer or Weekly World News. That any better for you?
Lol! After actually reading the linked article, it is not bad. Overstated but not bad. Just the basic sensationalizing of the training protocol that long distance endurance athletes use to help prolong the time before bonking by doing low carb training. Interesting but not exactly earth shattering.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »At least this subject is in the current news cycle.
https://nypost.com/2018/03/16/how-cutting-carbs-completely-made-me-a-better-runner/
The NY Post? You can't be serious. That scandal rag is just 1 step above the National Enquirer in terms of credibility.
The elderly are most susceptible to 'fake news'8
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