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Why do people deny CICO ?

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Replies

  • kuftae
    kuftae Posts: 299 Member
    kuftae wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.

    Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)

    Vegetables have carbohydrates.

    Also, fruit is one of the foods highest in carbs by percentage, and yet few people claim to feel like garbage because they eat fruit. So yeah, I do think that's kind of unusual, although there are others who claim carbs in general make them feel bad.

    Of course, most of the healthiest human diets (the blue zones) are reasonably high carb.

    and high in fiber.

    What does this have to do with you claiming that carbohydrates make you feel like garbage?

    The main difference between eating bread and broccoli is the fiber. It is a lot about glucose spikes. It has also been shown that diets absent of fiber create breeding grounds for an unhealthy micro-biome. A lot of it comes down to inflammation.

    Yes, there are differences between foods containing carbohydrates. That's why I had trouble understanding your initial statement: "Carbs . . . really do make me feel like garbage." I feel like bread and broccoli serve really different functions in my diet (although neither one makes me feel like garbage).

    The point is that many people, including some of the healthiest people in the world and some of the best athletes in the world, include carbohydrate-containing foods in their diet. Even you, despite your claim about how they make you feel, say you eat vegetables, foods that contain carbohydrates. I'm having trouble understanding your claims, to be honest.

    Do you eat broccoli despite the fact that it makes you feel like garbage?

    His diary sure doesn't reflect a high fiber diet.

    hmmn, I haven't logged in weeks. What are you seeing?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited April 2018
    kuftae wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.

    Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)

    Vegetables have carbohydrates.

    Also, fruit is one of the foods highest in carbs by percentage, and yet few people claim to feel like garbage because they eat fruit. So yeah, I do think that's kind of unusual, although there are others who claim carbs in general make them feel bad.

    Of course, most of the healthiest human diets (the blue zones) are reasonably high carb.

    and high in fiber.

    Sure. But high in net carbs also, at least from the perspective of someone demonizing "carbs."
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kuftae wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.

    Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)

    Vegetables have carbohydrates.

    Also, fruit is one of the foods highest in carbs by percentage, and yet few people claim to feel like garbage because they eat fruit. So yeah, I do think that's kind of unusual, although there are others who claim carbs in general make them feel bad.

    Of course, most of the healthiest human diets (the blue zones) are reasonably high carb.

    and high in fiber.

    What does this have to do with you claiming that carbohydrates make you feel like garbage?

    The main difference between eating bread and broccoli is the fiber. It is a lot about glucose spikes. It has also been shown that diets absent of fiber create breeding grounds for an unhealthy micro-biome. A lot of it comes down to inflammation.

    Who is recommending a diet absent of fiber?

    Low carb diets are as or more likely to be low fiber than high carb diets, as sources of fiber include other carbs.

    (I even prefer a somewhat lower than average carb diet, but let's not pretend that carbs are bad or low nutrient. Many high nutrient foods, veg, fruit, legumes, tubers, whole grains, are mostly carbs, and others (nuts and seeds, most dairy) include carbs.)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    kuftae wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    kuftae wrote: »
    Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.

    Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)

    Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.

    yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc.

    Of course they are processed. What do you think processed means?
    I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza.

    I'll note that neither of these is necessarily more processed than yogurt or smoked salmon or butter.

    I make pizza at home on occasion, and while I don't grind the grain myself you can get a home grinder if you are that into "no processed." Beyond that, the ingredients are water and yeast (the crust), olive oil (processed, of course, but you could find a way to do without), garlic, tomatoes, whatever vegetables you add, whatever meat you add (I don't like meat on pizza, so don't, but have made pizzas for others with chicken, gotten them with shrimp at a cool local pizza place, so on). Oh, and usually cheese, which is about as processed as butter or yogurt.

    Ice cream is even easier, as you can make it with cream, fruit, perhaps an egg, perhaps some milk, and whatever spices you want. Yes, it normally has sugar (although I used to make some low carb ice cream without it), but you can use honey or syrup for the sweetener.

    So the focus on "processed food" seems kind of irrelevant to nutrients or whether food is high cal for the satiety or whatever.

    I, like WinoGelato, don't find ice cream makes me feel bad at all, in a reasonable amount. I ate about 200 cal worth regularly when losing (I had exercise calories and otherwise ate a ton of vegetables and kept my protein up, so why not?).

    Pizza is exactly as healthy/nutrient dense/caloric as you make it. I don't find it too different from pasta the way I make it (lots of vegetables), except not having meat on mine makes it harder to get enough protein so I usually have something else with it (also often have salad with it) or have extra protein in my other meals that day. (I do like an egg and ham and arugula on pizza, usually with something like asparagus or artichoke hearts).

    Anyway, it doesn't make me feel bad.

    Lower nutrient pizza choices in excess, without a sufficiently varied diet otherwise? Sure that would make me feel bad, but nothing unique about pizza.

    Our disagreement is in semantics.

    Half the threads on here are about people falling off the wagon after following IIFYM. I wonder why?

    Strong cope on here. Enjoy your mediocrity goals of 2018.

    Because all types of diet plans, including plans like yours that require you to eliminate wide swaths of food, have relatively poor adherence rates?

    Do you really think people are *more likely* to stay on a plan that requires them to never have pizza or ice cream again?

    Yes, I do. Taking a cheat day to enjoy these foods is also an option. Stop eating sugar and you will stop craving it.

    I never craved sugar, so why should I cut out foods I enjoy like ice cream, chocolate, or for that matter fruit (which has a lot of sugar).

    I cut out added sugar as an experiment and found it super easy. I also decided there was no point in doing it long term. I think if someone is interested, it never hurts to do it as an experiment or if you want, but focusing only on what you don't eat, or sugar specifically, is a really uninformed approach to nutrition, IMO, and even when I choose not to eat sugar (or to cut carbs or, as during Lent, no animal products), I don't tell myself those foods are "bad" or that bad awful terrible things would happen if I ate them, since for me that kind of lie is much more likely to have a bad result than the more sensible "I can eat treats if I want, but best to keep them as treats or for special occasional or small amounts, as I WANT to eat a mostly nutrient dense diet.)

    My main splurges are savory, anyway, like Indian food, which I eat about once a month and eat whatever I want for that particular dinner and just plan for it.