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Why do people deny CICO ?
Replies
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WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
16 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
Would you really read a 20 page research paper?
7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
Just cite your sources, bro. ... Should be easy... unless it's all anecdotal experience...3 -
I tried googling "Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods" and it didn't really help me. Other than learning some people's gums bleed after eating pineapple and there are 12 chia seed health benefits but 1 nasty side effect.
I tried googling "Proof bigfoot is real" and that led to some delightful reading material. I'm convinced enough that I'm going to stock up on bacon to offer our future sasquatch overlords.30 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.
Yes I'm enjoying achieving my mediocre goals.
What research, specifically? And please don't tell me to google it.11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
I say eluded because most of the double blind research provides such varying results for different populations. That eludes to the fact that we react differently.12 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
You decided to talk about the whole clean/dirty thing. Just because you're in the "50% fact" category of Broscience doesn't mean you'll be uncontested on the "50%" magic. It's not dogma. It's just a scientific discussion and much like CICO it is one that has gone on since MFP was founded and will continue to go on as long as it's here.7 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
I say eluded because most of the double blind research provides such varying results for different populations. That eludes to the fact that we react differently.
Let me help you out with a link of my own : http://www.dictionary.com/browse/allude
18 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
I say eluded because most of the double blind research provides such varying results for different populations. That eludes to the fact that we react differently.
She's rolling her eyes because it's 'allude' not "elude".8 -
So, I'm curious: Should I count protein powder as a whole food, or not?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
14 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?22 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
I say eluded because most of the double blind research provides such varying results for different populations. That eludes to the fact that we react differently.
19 -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26629551
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21037214
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sugar-and-inflammation#section2
Dr Rhonda Patrick is the best resource for more readable/ accessible information.12 -
TicoCortez wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
Pretty much all research on health in the past 10 years has eluded to the the fact that everybody digests and reacts differently to certain foods. That is why I said that I would recommend trying for a month.
Do what you want and I'm glad that you have found your way.eludedELUDED
I say eluded because most of the double blind research provides such varying results for different populations. That eludes to the fact that we react differently.
She's rolling her eyes because it's 'allude' not "elude".
lol got me.1 -
So, I'm curious: Should I count protein powder as a whole food, or not?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
How does it affect your energy and cognition levels? If in a way that supports the point eluded to, then yes.
10 -
So, I'm curious: Should I count protein powder as a whole food, or not?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
ask your dietitian.9 -
So, I'm curious: Should I count protein powder as a whole food, or not?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
ask your dietitian.
I don't have a dietician. You suggested I (we) try an experiment. I'm asking about the guidelines for that experiment, that's all.12 -
I wish I could elude this debate, but alas, my carb intake has rendered me sluggish and my cognitive challenges prevented me from escaping before I was sucked into the vortex of arguing with someone who cried "semantics" and directed me to "google it" who unintentionally mixes his homophones.
26 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?
My whole point (go back 3 pages or so) was that eating a low sugar high fiber diet was beneficial. It's not necessary nor was my statement insisting that anyone else follow the same diet as me.10 -
So, I'm curious: Should I count protein powder as a whole food, or not?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
ask your dietitian.
I don't have a dietician. You suggested I (we) try an experiment. I'm asking about the guidelines for that experiment, that's all.
Someone asked me what I would suggest to them so i replied. I dont care what you do7 -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26629551
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21037214
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/sugar-and-inflammation#section2
Dr Rhonda Patrick is the best resource for more readable/ accessible information.
Funny how I live basically on white carbs and my CRP is the lowest it has ever been...11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?
My whole point (go back 3 pages or so) was that eating a low sugar high fiber diet was beneficial. It's not necessary nor was my statement insisting that anyone else follow the same diet as me.
Bolded is absolutely truth. And while you may not have intended to assert the idea that people should follow the same diet in your original post, the following posts insinuated that other diets, including those that included processed foods were somehow inferior, or that they wouldn't be completely fine for goals that were different from yours. Which is completely subjective, arbitrary, and/or relative to an individual's goals/definitions for what constitutes an enjoyable, healthier lifestyle8 -
TicoCortez wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?
My whole point (go back 3 pages or so) was that eating a low sugar high fiber diet was beneficial. It's not necessary nor was my statement insisting that anyone else follow the same diet as me.
Bolded is absolutely truth. And while you may not have intended to assert the idea that people should follow the same diet in your original post, the following posts insinuated that other diets, including those that included processed foods were somehow inferior, or that they wouldn't be completely fine for goals that were different from yours. Which is completely subjective, arbitrary, and/or relative to an individual's goals/definitions for what constitutes an enjoyable, healthier lifestyle
I got pulled into this argument by WinoGelato.
If you all think that I am telling you to do anything then you are just looking for an argument.16 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
I forgot to ask how you have so much time to pick fights with people on here when you are so busy working 60 hour weeks, raising two kids, exercise regularly and keeps a tidy house. Pls explain. Below is where we started.WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.15 -
TicoCortez wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?
My whole point (go back 3 pages or so) was that eating a low sugar high fiber diet was beneficial. It's not necessary nor was my statement insisting that anyone else follow the same diet as me.
Bolded is absolutely truth. And while you may not have intended to assert the idea that people should follow the same diet in your original post, the following posts insinuated that other diets, including those that included processed foods were somehow inferior, or that they wouldn't be completely fine for goals that were different from yours. Which is completely subjective, arbitrary, and/or relative to an individual's goals/definitions for what constitutes an enjoyable, healthier lifestyle
I got pulled into this argument by WinoGelato.
If you all think that I am telling you to do anything then you are just looking for an argument.
Well I mean, this is the debate forum.18 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Funny enough, the ones who stick around, and are trying to really help others, are the ones in the first category. The people like you who suggest that anyone not bringing optimal nutrition into every single "is a calorie just a calorie" post is part of some cult... never seem to stick around.
So yeah, I'll continue to eat ice cream and pizza, and drink wine in moderation as part of an overall balanced diet, after achieving my weight loss goals and maintaining that healthy weight - get my 15K steps in at a slow pace, play with my kids instead of killing it at the gym, and continue to try to find fulfillment here as part of a member of this community.
Enjoy your broscience up there on your high horse. I'm sure the view is quite nice.
Some of us can’t eat ice cream and pizza. And some of us tried to be members of the community but were beaten into silence for relating our ‘CICO sure, but merely calorie counting wasn’t getting the scale to move for me’ experiences.
From our perspective we endured pedantic arguments and our points or questions stretched into straw man ridiculous statements and until we finally gave up. That is why some of us don’t stick around.
CICO is not calorie counting. It is an energy balance, and it is immutable. That doesn't mean that it is easy or intuitive for everyone to manipulate to achieve their desired results - but you seem to want to believe that you are a special snowflake for whom CICO doesn't apply. It's just not the case. You've stated repeatedly that you're an outlier, your maintenance calories are lower than someone else of similar stats. Ok, that's fine. I'm on the higher end - we balance each other out. You need less CI because you have less CO. That doesn't invalidate CICO, it just changes your starting point.
You've found a way of eating, and an IF plan that enables you to achieve a calorie deficit. Congratulations, you've managed to manipulate the CICO balance in the favor of CI<CO. That is all that any of us are recommending that someone does. Some people do IF, some people cut out certain calorie dense foods, some people increase their activity level so that they can accommodate more calories, some take diet breaks and focus on refeeds to keep their metabolism higher - these are all individualized strategies but they all just tools to manipulate CICO to achieve the desired results.
I'm sorry you feel you have been beaten into silence but challenging your misunderstanding of what CICO is, and how it works, isn't telling you that you should give up and not stick around. I'm glad you are finding success, I remember from your previous posts that you've been quite frustrated.
Lol. I never claimed CICO didn’t apply to me. I never denied the principal. All I say is that I once I figured out my CO (or got close) the real weight loss work was still ahead of me. It was not simple. It was not easy. I had to eliminate some foods completely from my diet. And I expect many others might feel the same - I’m hardly s special snowflake.
I cop to being frustrated in the past and to finding much of the forums less than helpful (much like CICO).
But yes, CICO - I can’t eat more than a certain amount of calories or I will gain weight. But you can be sure WHAT calories I eat make all the difference. Psychologically, from a satiety and satisfaction perspective, from a sustainability and compliance perspective WHAT I eat dictates my CI. Personally I can’t overeat broccoli, spinach, and lean meat proteins and the like. But I could easily eat my fill of potato chips and be 2 or 3 times over my calories and still be hungry.4 -
TicoCortez wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
Have any objective evidence supporting superiority of this practice?
Try google. Keywords: inflammation, gut micro-biome, cognition, sugar/ glucose.
Surprise, surprise. Guy won't even cite his sources.
"What, you don't believe me? To the google machine with you!"
The fact that I agree 95% with CICO and am getting attacked for the 5% shows that this forum is more dogmatic than flat-earthers.
We're dogmatic for insisting that the average person can fit the foods they love into a balanced, calorie-appropriate diet? Or you're dogmatic for insisting that people should eat whole food/low carb/no coffee as per Google?
My whole point (go back 3 pages or so) was that eating a low sugar high fiber diet was beneficial. It's not necessary nor was my statement insisting that anyone else follow the same diet as me.
Bolded is absolutely truth. And while you may not have intended to assert the idea that people should follow the same diet in your original post, the following posts insinuated that other diets, including those that included processed foods were somehow inferior, or that they wouldn't be completely fine for goals that were different from yours. Which is completely subjective, arbitrary, and/or relative to an individual's goals/definitions for what constitutes an enjoyable, healthier lifestyle
I got pulled into this argument by WinoGelato.
If you all think that I am telling you to do anything then you are just looking for an argument.
Well I mean, this is the debate forum.
Come into a debate thread, drop some knowledge folks find contentious, and people suddenly think it's OK to debate your points. Weird. Who ever would have thought?
14 -
WinoGelato wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »TicoCortez wrote: »
Dom is funny and obviously satirical but most of the guys and gals I know that are in fantastic shape follow strict "bro diets" (chicken breast and broccoli) and "bro splits" (low frequency/ high volume training).
correlation =/= casuation
I agree that a lot of it is correlation. Still, me thinks that healthy food (high fiber, high protein, low sugar) = more energy = harder training and better recovery.
And for people who have no interest in "harder training" and following bro diets and bro splits to achieve "fantastic shape"? What do you recommend for them? Still need to avoid eating whatever your definition of processed food/junk food is?
I recommend trying eating a diet full of whole foods for a month and pay attention to how it affects your cognition and energy levels. If you think eating pasta if worth it still then go for it.
So why exactly is pasta, which I have pretty often in many different styles - but usually sauteed shrimp, asparagus, zucchini and squash in an light olive oil and garlic sauce hurting my cognition? What cognition issues do you think I'm having? Energy levels are also just fine, for someone who works about 50-60 hours/week, has two young kids, keeps a tidy house and fits in a decent amount of exercise in my 24 hours each day as well.
I forgot to ask how you have so much time to pick fights with people on here when you are so busy working 60 hour weeks, raising two kids, exercise regularly and keeps a tidy house. Pls explain. Below is where we started.WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
Because my cognition and energy levels rock.30 -
I can't help but feel now that my life goals are mediocre. If I can reach them while eating pasta, are they high enough? I mean, god I can still smell the coffee grounds in the trash, remnants of my average, sugar-addicted, possibly-not-really-hydrated existence. So. Much. Time. Wasted.
OP tried to warn us. She said to just nod and smile. But we didn't listen.23 -
I can't help but feel now that my life goals are mediocre. If I can reach them while eating pasta, are they high enough? I mean, god I can still smell the coffee grounds in the trash, remnants of my average, sugar-addicted, possibly-not-really-hydrated existence. So. Much. Time. Wasted.
OP tried to warn us. She said to just nod and smile. But we didn't listen.
Wait, there was an OP?18
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