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Why do people deny CICO ?
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WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.17 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc. I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza. You're on point on that we all have differing goals. On the flip side, if I was trying to gain weight aggressively (3,500 cals) then I would have to eat junk food.
13 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc. I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza. You're on point on that we all have differing goals. On the flip side, if I was trying to gain weight aggressively (3,500 cals) then I would have to eat junk food.
Canning and freezing are processing. By definition. As is fermenting, blending or chopping.18 -
mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.21 -
stanmann571 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc. I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza. You're on point on that we all have differing goals. On the flip side, if I was trying to gain weight aggressively (3,500 cals) then I would have to eat junk food.
Canning and freezing are processing. By definition. As is fermenting, blending or chopping.
so what is unprocessed food? Foraged mushrooms, dandelions and cattails?7 -
mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.
I totally read both, Unless you consider diabetes, and high cholesterol a worthy health goal, then no nothing of value there.23 -
Today’s word of the day, ironically, is Myopic.25
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stanmann571 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc. I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza. You're on point on that we all have differing goals. On the flip side, if I was trying to gain weight aggressively (3,500 cals) then I would have to eat junk food.
Canning and freezing are processing. By definition. As is fermenting, blending or chopping.
so what is unprocessed food? Foraged mushrooms, dandelions and cattails?
Pretty much yeah.
Unless you picked, or killed it yourself, someone else processed it for you. A steak, or an ear of corn or apple/banana is minimally processed.8 -
mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.
I totally read both, Unless you consider diabetes, and high cholesterol a worthy health goal, then no nothing of value there.
So the improvement of health markers doesn't mean much to you...
OR
You didn't actually read the thread.
An overweight Paleo vegan is at much higher risk of diabetes and high cholesterol than a very active Factory worker/ powerlifter who is within "normal weight range" who eats McDonald's 3 meals a day, 7 days a week.22 -
stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.
I totally read both, Unless you consider diabetes, and high cholesterol a worthy health goal, then no nothing of value there.
So the improvement of health markers doesn't mean much to you...
OR
You didn't actually read the thread.
An overweight Paleo vegan is at much higher risk of diabetes and high cholesterol than a very active Factory worker/ powerlifter who is within "normal weight range" who eats McDonald's 3 meals a day, 7 days a week.
And/or have funny (aka incorrect) ideas about what causes diabetes and high cholesterol.
And/or didn't understand when people mentioned eating healthy, nutritious foods - especially in the OP, which would indicate that not much (if any) additional discussion is required. Even though it was present.6 -
stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.
I totally read both, Unless you consider diabetes, and high cholesterol a worthy health goal, then no nothing of value there.
So the improvement of health markers doesn't mean much to you...
OR
You didn't actually read the thread.
An overweight Paleo vegan is at much higher risk of diabetes and high cholesterol than a very active Factory worker/ powerlifter who is within "normal weight range" who eats McDonald's 3 meals a day, 7 days a week.
And/or have funny (aka incorrect) ideas about what causes diabetes and high cholesterol.
And/or didn't understand when people mentioned eating healthy, nutritious foods - especially in the OP, which would indicate that not much (if any) additional discussion is required. Even though it was present.
I should be dead with my low fiber, low fat,mostly ensure/boost, white bread, white pasta, white everything intake. Oh and cole zero for the extra naol in my coffin
13 -
stanmann571 wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
So, you didn't actually read the thread. That explains things.
I totally read both, Unless you consider diabetes, and high cholesterol a worthy health goal, then no nothing of value there.
So the improvement of health markers doesn't mean much to you...
OR
You didn't actually read the thread.
An overweight Paleo vegan is at much higher risk of diabetes and high cholesterol than a very active Factory worker/ powerlifter who is within "normal weight range" who eats McDonald's 3 meals a day, 7 days a week.
And/or have funny (aka incorrect) ideas about what causes diabetes and high cholesterol.
And/or didn't understand when people mentioned eating healthy, nutritious foods - especially in the OP, which would indicate that not much (if any) additional discussion is required. Even though it was present.
Obviously it's better to have lower quantities of highly saturated fat and refined sugars in your diet, but ultimately a person with a healthy BW or BF% is at radically lower disease risk than someone with elevated BW or BF%.
I avoid HFCS, because of how it affects my emotional and mental metabolism. And yes, I've done double blind testing to confirm that it's HFCS that is causing the effects. But YMMV, and I wouldn't suggest you avoid HFCS unless you have similar symptoms. AND if cutting it out doesn't work, by all means go back to drinking or eating foods with it.2 -
L1zardQueen wrote: »Today’s word of the day, ironically, is Myopic.
Or Presbyopic perhaps for some.5 -
mutantspicy wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »L1zardQueen wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »mutantspicy wrote: »terryritter1 wrote: »The fact is that the principle of CICO for weight loss is effective in practice. Recording what you eat and keeping a calorie deficit, which is, at the fundamental level, what causes weight loss, is highly effective process for someone with that goal. But, it's also way too simplistic. Though it is a "simple scientific concept", the body isn't. When you have a biological environment that has higher insulin, that does change how people's bodies manage metabolism.
So, at one level, CICO is a good tool. At deeper level, it's not that simple. Anyone that has a deeper understanding of biology knows this, or should. Just because it is a good methodology doesn't mean it's all things. We argue about this because we want to live in a binary world. Calories matter, not doubt. But, composition does, too.
Ultimately, who's more right isn't important. If CICO works for someone's quest to lose weight, it just doesn't matter (and no blog of an anecdotal nature will convince me otherwise, though I will cheer your success nonetheless).
yeah. I'm finding that there is a cult of conformity around here, that wants to force this idea that calories is the only thing that matters. If that's the case why track nutrients and macros, at all? Yes CICO is great for weight management, but what about your actual health. Your body weight isn't the only thing matters.
Find a thread, any thread (if it happens as often as you say then it shouldn't be hard) where someone asks about challenges with losing weight, and all the responses say that "eat whatever you want, CICO is all that matters" and no one mentions health, nutrition, and satiety.
People constantly suggest that this happens and I've yet to have someone come back with an actual thread where it does.
I know there is one somewhere.
Cuz I posted it to make a point
I thought I found it but no, not this one. http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10451302/eat-whatever-you-want-and-lose-weight/p1
Still looking, I know it is out there.
LOL. Thanks for proving my point.
The poster you were quoting was trying to find a thread where no one brought up the importance of good nutrition in the context of using CICO (energy balance) to lose weight. They are saying that they still can't find it after searching. I notice you haven't posted an example either, even though you said it happens all the time in this "culture of conformity".
I didn't need to. There are two prime examples linked in this thread. The one you mention here. Literally, no valuable discussion regarding nutrition and health in either one. Just a bunch of, yay I can eat pizza, ice cream, and drink wine.
Um, did you see what I quoted from the very first post in that thread?
It directly contradicts your claim that the party line is that nothing matters, for any purpose, but calories.8 -
Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Vegetables have carbohydrates.12 -
Me thinks it's a waste of time to argue with someone who stands on your green lawn and insists it's purple.
Whatever. We're all unhealthy, diabetic, heart-disease ridden couch potatoes trying to lure unsuspecting innocent souls into our web of deceit. In our spare time, for free. Just because our dark hearts enjoy it.
I'm off to find another healthy, slim well-educated newbie and convince them to eat nothing but fast food and doughnuts because nutrition doesn't matter, like I do everyday. :drinker:35 -
Me thinks it's a waste of time to argue with someone who stands on your green lawn and insists it's purple.
Whatever. We're all unhealthy, diabetic, heart-disease ridden couch potatoes trying to lure unsuspecting innocent souls into our web of deceit. In our spare time, for free. Just because our dark hearts enjoy it.
I'm off to find another healthy, slim well-educated newbie and convince them to eat nothing but fast food and doughnuts because nutrition doesn't matter, like I do everyday. :drinker:
Right behind you.9 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Nope - my greek yogurt with prepackaged granola and berries, my soup made with frozen vegetables, boxed chicken broth, lean ground beef, dried pasta and canned tomatoes do not make me feel like garbage. Nor does pizza, wine, and ice cream; eaten in moderation as part of an overall calorie appropriate diet. Nor is a 1200 calorie deficit appropriate for me or for most people - I'm already at a healthy weight, and even when I was losing, 0.5lb-1 lb /week was the rate of loss appropriate for my goals.
yogurt, broth, frozen veggies and beef certainly are not junk foods nor are they processed-- just canned, frozen etc.
Of course they are processed. What do you think processed means?I am glad that you can enjoy ice cream and pizza.
I'll note that neither of these is necessarily more processed than yogurt or smoked salmon or butter.
I make pizza at home on occasion, and while I don't grind the grain myself you can get a home grinder if you are that into "no processed." Beyond that, the ingredients are water and yeast (the crust), olive oil (processed, of course, but you could find a way to do without), garlic, tomatoes, whatever vegetables you add, whatever meat you add (I don't like meat on pizza, so don't, but have made pizzas for others with chicken, gotten them with shrimp at a cool local pizza place, so on). Oh, and usually cheese, which is about as processed as butter or yogurt.
Ice cream is even easier, as you can make it with cream, fruit, perhaps an egg, perhaps some milk, and whatever spices you want. Yes, it normally has sugar (although I used to make some low carb ice cream without it), but you can use honey or syrup for the sweetener.
So the focus on "processed food" seems kind of irrelevant to nutrients or whether food is high cal for the satiety or whatever.
I, like WinoGelato, don't find ice cream makes me feel bad at all, in a reasonable amount. I ate about 200 cal worth regularly when losing (I had exercise calories and otherwise ate a ton of vegetables and kept my protein up, so why not?).
Pizza is exactly as healthy/nutrient dense/caloric as you make it. I don't find it too different from pasta the way I make it (lots of vegetables), except not having meat on mine makes it harder to get enough protein so I usually have something else with it (also often have salad with it) or have extra protein in my other meals that day. (I do like an egg and ham and arugula on pizza, usually with something like asparagus or artichoke hearts).
Anyway, it doesn't make me feel bad.
Lower nutrient pizza choices in excess, without a sufficiently varied diet otherwise? Sure that would make me feel bad, but nothing unique about pizza.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Eating processed foods, carbs and sugar really do make me feel like garbage. I don't think I am alone in this. It is WAY easier to eat vegetables, eggs, lean meat and water only if you are going for a steep cut (2lbs+ per week). With a clean diet I can go to bed full on 1700 calories easy (1200 cal deficit). I can't imagine getting through a day after having a 400+ calorie sugary snack. I would wake up the next day with a sugar hangover unable to move. Whatever keeps you sane though.
Calories in-- calories out means everything though. I maintain and gain weight on the same foods, just more volume (and a lot of added butter!)
Vegetables have carbohydrates.
Also, fruit is one of the foods highest in carbs by percentage, and yet few people claim to feel like garbage because they eat fruit. So yeah, I do think that's kind of unusual, although there are others who claim carbs in general make them feel bad.
Of course, most of the healthiest human diets (the blue zones) are reasonably high carb.8 -
Me thinks it's a waste of time to argue with someone who stands on your green lawn and insists it's purple.
Whatever. We're all unhealthy, diabetic, heart-disease ridden couch potatoes trying to lure unsuspecting innocent souls into our web of deceit. In our spare time, for free. Just because our dark hearts enjoy it.
I'm off to find another healthy, slim well-educated newbie and convince them to eat nothing but fast food and doughnuts because nutrition doesn't matter, like I do everyday. :drinker:
I pictured you typing this from the back of your windowless van. :laugh:11
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