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Is verbal harassment common at the gym? And do women or men catch more of it?
Replies
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Or maybe you should learn self defense and knock these guys on their *kitten*. Especially anyone who touches you without your consent.
Or maybe men could just leave us alone? Just a suggestion.27 -
Or maybe you should learn self defense and knock these guys on their *kitten*. Especially anyone who touches you without your consent.
Or maybe men could just leave us alone? Just a suggestion.
Agreed but apparently that's not happening. And it really didn't sit well that the poster has come to expect the unprovoked touching. Words are words but unwanted touching is a little bit more serious in my book.3 -
Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
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I have never seen or experienced any type of harassment in a gym. Actually I've had great experiences with people of both sexes being helpful and kind!!!10
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cogirljb55 wrote: »I have never seen or experienced any type of harassment in a gym. Actually I've had great experiences with people of both sexes being helpful and kind!!!
Same here.6 -
Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
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snickerscharlie wrote: »Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Anymore? This has been an issue for women forever!
I actually think it's been getting a bit better in the last decade since a lot of men are becoming educated that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable.
YMMV.
I think it's more nuanced than that, over a longer term. In my youth/adolescence (1960s), it was IME more unusual to be harrassed in general public life (walking down the street). The culture as a whole was mostly more restrained (limited salacious material in popular arts, TV squeaky clean, euphemisms in song lyrics, pornography in the closet and looked at as a vice generally). There was a bit of "women on a pedestal" thinking that affected "respectable" women outside the home. ("Respectable" is in quotes for a reason: Lots of class and racial baggage, if you unpack it, so positive impacts far from universal, and "respectable" also encompassing the idea of "acting like a lady" - not assertive, demanding, whatever).
At that point, it was probably more common than now to be severely harrassed when being "nontraditional", like major hazing of women who went to gyms to lift (some of the Olympic women rowers reported men gathering around them in groups catcalling and spitting on them, in the 1960s, while they were lifting), or hazing of women "taking a man's place" in education or the workplace (doctors, lawyers, other professionals) and that sort of thing. You probably know about Katherine Switzer being physically assaulted by a race official when she snuck into the men-only Boston Marathon in 1967: Pretty typical.
The late 60s/early 70s loosened the cultural strictures a bit, with things pretty volatile through the 70s, maybe into 80s - popular culture being "freed", incorporating a coarser vernacular, so you'd hear more coarse comments on the street, including different catcalling expectations. Still, this was somewhat seen by average people as abnormal or bad behavior. (This was the era of the "Moral Majority", a political movement, but an interesting example of public promotion of decency and traditionalism, while bad stuff was very much happening in the home and workplace including being practiced by those with a straitlaced public face.)
After that, I think the ubiquity of the internet came to be kind of a force for evil. It led to "pornification" of women's image and inter-gender relationships in some ways that hadn't mostly been generally expected/accepted in earlier decades; and it fostered (I think) more separation between people (less empathy) by giving people more exposure, on average, to their perceived peer group, and less to dissimilar people - also related to the political polarization we see now. We exacerbate that, IMO, by the super-strong emphasis on age-peers in activities these days (children's/adolescents' reference groups are popular culture and their peers, more than in my youth, when mixed-age activities were more common, so more opportunity to model on adults).
Still, actual decent people (i.e. men) didn't think it was OK to harrass women (never have, never will). But those who thought it was OK were more open about it, I think. The emphasis on self-expression, and the frequency of misogynistic expression in pop culture (e.g., song lyrics) may've led people not to call out some kinds of bad social behavior, besides.
More lately, the "me too" movement, and generally more self-actualization by women, more women in the workplace, etc., have driven bad behavior more underground a bit again. The men who viscerally think women are people, and have empathy and respect for others, still don't do this nonsense. And it's becoming socially less accepted for people who have different inclinations to express those in public via catcalling and such. I feel like we're still in a bit of "underground backlash" mode as a culture, though (incel, red pillers, etc.), just not out in the light of day as much.
So, public expression changes, expectations about what's acceptable in public change, pop culture changes, and underlying attitudes change, and all of that interacts in complicated ways. But I don't think they all necessarily go in the same direction at the same time. And I don't know whether we're actually improving now, or not. I hope we are.14 -
Does watching a spotter say "come on, one more, I know you can do it" when the guy's face is red count? I laughed my *kitten* off.
Otherwise, no.0 -
I have never seen or heard any sort of harassment or bullying in any gym I've been in (and that's quite a few). Do guys sometimes check out girls? Sure. And vice versa. For that matter, if a female with an awesome physique walks by, do females also take a look? Yes. Just like a totally jacked dude will get looks from other guys ("mirin"). Looking is not touching. The only teasing I've even been around in gyms is among friends.6
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Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.11 -
Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!17 -
Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!
Then I wouldn't be making assumptions about other people, their intentions, motives or painting a gender with such a broad brush either.
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Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!
Then I wouldn't be making assumptions about other people, their intentions, motives or painting a gender with such a broad brush either.
She didn't say all guys. It doesn't take 100% of guys being jerks who think they're entitled to have women pay attention to them, smile at them, talk to them, and let them touch them for those kinds of experiences to pervade women's lives. You shouldn't feel painted by the brush unless you identify with that behavior.26 -
Let's unpack this, you suggest that someone shouldn't feel something.
Okay, so if someone said you shouldn't feel threatened when the bad man looks at you, are you okay with that?
I just want to know the standard. Who gets to decide what someone should or shouldn't feel?
Is it not okay for men to tell women what they should or shouldn't feel "Come on, smile for me..."
But it's okay for women to tell men what they should or shouldn't feel, "You shouldn't feel painted..."
You see, from my perspective, those are exactly the same thing. The words are different, but the pattern is the same. Someone projecting upon another what they should really be feeling. Invalidating what they are feeling or experiencing and replacing it with what the speaker has decided they should feel.
So what's the standard here?
May I request that it be consistent and evenly applied?
Or is that not allowed?lynn_glenmont wrote: »Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!
Then I wouldn't be making assumptions about other people, their intentions, motives or painting a gender with such a broad brush either.
She didn't say all guys. It doesn't take 100% of guys being jerks who think they're entitled to have women pay attention to them, smile at them, talk to them, and let them touch them for those kinds of experiences to pervade women's lives. You shouldn't feel painted by the brush unless you identify with that behavior.
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!
Then I wouldn't be making assumptions about other people, their intentions, motives or painting a gender with such a broad brush either.
She didn't say all guys. It doesn't take 100% of guys being jerks who think they're entitled to have women pay attention to them, smile at them, talk to them, and let them touch them for those kinds of experiences to pervade women's lives. You shouldn't feel painted by the brush unless you identify with that behavior.
Saying "Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way" comes across as saying it's an expected behavior, correct?....and for it to be expected that would paint a fairly broad brush across the gender (we'll even say, identifying the majority) in order for behavior as such to be anticipated, don't you think? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯17 -
I've fortunately never witnessed it myself but have heard a lot of horror stories. Mostly what I hear is men bullying women out of the free weights area, or assuming she's not strong enough to do something (and mostly what I also hear is those dudes getting put in their place.)
If I ever witnessed it either direction, i'd sure as $h!t jump up on that. No negativity zone!1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way it’s pretty pathetic, not even driving in your own car. Harassing you with their eyeballs and speeding up next to you.
Just throwing it out there.....but if it's in traffic, are you sure it isn't just your driving?
Nothing wrong with my driving I know the difference between someone being annoyed vs someone with a cocky smirk on their face telling me to roll my window down. Thanks.
Eh...none of us think anything is wrong with our driving. I've seen people try to get others to roll their window down just to tell them about their driving skills. Just food for thought ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Thanks.
Cool but don’t try to tell me what the situation might’ve been when you weren’t there, I was you weren’t but keep making assumptions about me and my driving because you know me to make those assumptions. Have a great day!
Then I wouldn't be making assumptions about other people, their intentions, motives or painting a gender with such a broad brush either.
She didn't say all guys. It doesn't take 100% of guys being jerks who think they're entitled to have women pay attention to them, smile at them, talk to them, and let them touch them for those kinds of experiences to pervade women's lives. You shouldn't feel painted by the brush unless you identify with that behavior.
Saying "Females cant go anywhere anymore without guys bothering them in some way" comes across as saying it's an expected behavior, correct?....and for it to be expected that would paint a fairly broad brush across the gender (we'll even say, identifying the majority) in order for behavior as such to be anticipated, don't you think? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Women do not have the luxury of giving all men the benefit of the doubt. Yes, most encounters with men in our daily lives are harmless, but we must always be on guard for those instances when they are not. One time a man followed me off the highway to my work, fortunately there was someone else in the garage to walk me to my building. I had to have an escort for a week before I felt safe enough to go by myself. I've had men call me names because I chose not to be receptive to their overtures. Can not tell you the number of time some random dude told me to "smile". Good for you that you don't harass women, but don't tell us we don't have the right to live our lives on heightened alert.20 -
tbright1965 wrote: »
I just want to know the standard. Who gets to decide what someone should or shouldn't feel?
Is it not okay for men to tell women what they should or shouldn't feel "Come on, smile for me..."
But it's okay for women to tell men what they should or shouldn't feel, "You shouldn't feel painted..."
You see, from my perspective, those are exactly the same thing. The words are different, but the pattern is the same. Someone projecting upon another what they should really be feeling. Invalidating what they are feeling or experiencing and replacing it with what the speaker has decided they should feel.
First one, you are not asking a woman to please be or feel happy (which would be "have a nice day"), you are asking her to perform for you.
Second one, NOT ALL MEN is overwhelmingly used as a way to deflect/redirect the argument and never as a real response to anyone saying "literally all men do this". If someone makes a generalisaton about women, about how women are worrying about not having babies before they're 35, for instance, I don't scream I'm not like that, that's not me. I know I'm not. I know they didn't mean me. And so do you.
Neither are about feelings.
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I think a lot of this has to do with perspective. I've worked with a lot of unsavory characters throughout the years, and it is a rare situation where I feel unsafe. I have found that a simple "I'm flattered, but really can't (or don't want to)" is enough to end an unwanted advance. Maybe I just have a "mess with me and I'll knock you on your *kitten*" air about me.
I had a friend who was raised in a very strict household. She once asked me if I was scared of being attacked because I was wearing a shirt that exposed my clavicles. She was the sweetest person, but I can't even imagine living in that much fear of the males of our species.14
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