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Keto diet = good or bad
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Silkysausage wrote: »With the recent discovery of 'keto crotch' it's a no from me.
Ha, was coming here to see if anyone dared to post about this lol.0 -
Here's a simple idea: don't assume you know more than me, that you'll be lecturing me, and suddenly my posts might make more sense. I didn't use T1 out of ignoranceType 1 is different. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Type_1_Diabetes_vs_Type_2_Diabetes
Don't even go there
T1 is the absolute lack of insulin, that's my point. It isn't healthy either so insulin simpliciter can't be a pure cause of health issues, or people completely lacking it would be healthier.
I could also ask if you know why massive, hulking, muscle slabs in the unregulated pro Bodybuilding circuit inject insulin... while becoming some of the leanest humans on the planet. Surely that makes no sense in a view where insulin itself is causing obesity, right?16 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »
Here's a simple idea: don't assume you know more than me, that you'll be lecturing me, and suddenly my posts might make more sense. I didn't use T1 out of ignoranceType 1 is different. https://www.diffen.com/difference/Type_1_Diabetes_vs_Type_2_Diabetes
Don't even go there
T1 is the absolute lack of insulin, that's my point. It isn't healthy either so insulin simpliciter can't be a pure cause of health issues, or people completely lacking it would be healthier.
I could also ask if you know why massive, hulking, muscle slabs in the unregulated pro Bodybuilding circuit inject insulin... while becoming some of the leanest humans on the planet. Surely that makes no sense in a view where insulin itself is causing obesity, right?
Excellent points. Insulin is critical for nutrients to reach cells. Lack of insulin will kill you. Those who are insulin resistant produce insulin but it doesn't do its job o getting enough nutrients to the cells. The key is not to avoid foods that produce insulin but to increase insulin sensitivity. Yes, low carb is one tool to do that. So is weight loss and vigorous exercise.
Based on the what has been said, someone that had a BMI in the 40s and lowered to the 30s is likely insulin resistant, even still in the 30s. So, for them, a low carb or keto diet makes sense. For the rest of us? Not so much unless it is your preference and you will adhere to it.
Many here, including me, have lost weight and improved bio-marker just fine without keto and the suggestions that we need to "up out game" on research is delusional. There is plenty of objective, non cherry picked research that demonstrates no metabolic advantage to keto for long term weight loss. One can deny, jump up and down, shout and insult others to deny that but it doesn't change the facts.16 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
@PalDali that is an awesome Keto success story. Best of continued success for both of you.
It is true about 30% of the population has trouble doing Keto for one reason or another but after 4.5 years of keto it has helped resolved so many of my health issues plus I did lose 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over 3 years now. Nearly every week I learn more about keto still today at the age of 68.
Try 90%. There is only about a 10% success rate with Keto.
And one final thought. I think you inadvertently admitted that Keto is 5% better than all combined diets.
95% of diets fail and most will regain their lost weight in 1-5 years
Source: Statistics on Weight Discrimination: A Waste of Talent, The Council on Size and Weight Discrimination,
Retrieved July 18, 2011, from (http://www.cswd.org/index.html)
http://www.montenido.com/pdf/montenido_statistics.pdf
I think this article was written before keto was a big thing so the stats probably do not include keto.
Peace and love to all you grain eaters
K, I guess: Being at BMI 22 (with excellent BP & lipids), down from obese, and in year 3 of maintenance after a year of weight loss while eating around 200g +/- carbs daily throughout - I'd better get right on that "regain" thing, since I only have a year or so to (inevitably?) regain, if I am to fulfill your expectations.
. . . or not.
I'm thinking not.
But peace and love to you, too, anyway. I hope - sincerely - that you continue to lose to a health BMI, and maintain a healthy weight permanently, using your chosen way of eating.
Sad you don't seem to wish us the same, I think.16 -
Narrator voice: that 95% number is wrong. The actual success for weight maintenance is somewhere around 80%. Still somewhat dismal, but better than 95%.
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/82/1/222S/4863393
FTR, this is a better success rate than quitting smoking, per attempt:
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2376894/6 -
Wait, so, keto guys, since I lost 17 1/2 stone, became far fitter than I have ever been in my life, and improved my health immeasurably while consistently eating a high-carb diet, does that make me some kind of unique superhuman? Should I be offering my body to medical science?21
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GaleHawkins wrote: »
@PalDali that is an awesome Keto success story. Best of continued success for both of you.
It is true about 30% of the population has trouble doing Keto for one reason or another but after 4.5 years of keto it has helped resolved so many of my health issues plus I did lose 50 pounds and maintained that loss for over 3 years now. Nearly every week I learn more about keto still today at the age of 68.
Try 90%. There is only about a 10% success rate with Keto.
And one final thought. I think you inadvertently admitted that Keto is 5% better than all combined diets.
95% of diets fail and most will regain their lost weight in 1-5 years
Source: Statistics on Weight Discrimination: A Waste of Talent, The Council on Size and Weight Discrimination,
Retrieved July 18, 2011, from (http://www.cswd.org/index.html)
http://www.montenido.com/pdf/montenido_statistics.pdf
I think this article was written before keto was a big thing so the stats probably do not include keto.
Peace and love to all you grain eaters
So you have a 95% chance of failure, just like the rest of us.
I'm now about 6 years into maintenance at this point and statistically speaking I've gotten past the 5 years 'failure' period. So, I could come here and tell everyone what I'm doing is 'THE WAY', and is better than all the other plans out there (which would be a higher carb, mostly plant based woe- I average 200+ grams of carbs a day). But, one thing I've learned throughout this process is that when it comes to weight management it's highly individualized and what works for me or what works for you, won't work for someone else.
There's nothing wrong with you/me/everyone here sharing their own personal experiences. But, when someone takes it beyond that and starts claiming that whatever they're doing is somehow superior to what others are doing it shows a lack of understanding and frankly, is pretty naive.
It also tells me that the person isn't very far into the process and is still most likely in the honeymoon phase of weight loss. It also indicates that they probably have no clue what the 20, 30, 40+ years of maintenance is going to be like. And as you pointed out yourself-is 95% likely to fail at this whole thing.
eta: spend some time on the forums and you'll see all the posts from people who've tried keto and are abandoning it after a few weeks/few months. Some of them who've actually gained weight with the plan.
At the end of the day weight loss/weight gain/weight maintenance comes down to CICO.15 -
Silkysausage wrote: »With the recent discovery of 'keto crotch' it's a no from me.
Ha, was coming here to see if anyone dared to post about this lol.
https://reddit.com/r/xxketo/comments/7pk8tx/help_ladies_why_do_i_smell_down_there_pcosketo/
This was being discussed at foxnews and they offered this link. Two weeks into keto makes is sounds like the kill off of overgrowths that can happen in any part of the body after moving from burning sugar to burning fat. One doctor mentioned it was a temporary thing.
https://foxnews.com/food-drink/keto-crotch-called-out-as-stinky-side-effect-of-popular-diet
My first few weeks into Keto I thought I was going to die and even googled 'Dying from coconut oil usage'. That was when I learned about the die off reaction that Keto was causing in my gut. Antibiotics and other drugs can cause the Herxheimer effect as well. It was very bad in my case but once I knew what was going on my panic attack ceased.
https://jillcarnahan.com/2012/11/17/tips-for-dealing-with-herxheimer-or-die-off-reactions/8 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Silkysausage wrote: »With the recent discovery of 'keto crotch' it's a no from me.
Ha, was coming here to see if anyone dared to post about this lol.
https://reddit.com/r/xxketo/comments/7pk8tx/help_ladies_why_do_i_smell_down_there_pcosketo/
This was being discussed at foxnews and they offered this link. Two weeks into keto makes is sounds like the kill off of overgrowths that can happen in any part of the body after moving from burning sugar to burning fat. One doctor mentioned it was a temporary thing.
https://foxnews.com/food-drink/keto-crotch-called-out-as-stinky-side-effect-of-popular-diet
My first few weeks into Keto I thought I was going to die and even googled 'Dying from coconut oil usage'. That was when I learned about the die off reaction that Keto was causing in my gut. Antibiotics and other drugs can cause the Herxheimer effect as well. It was very bad in my case but once I knew what was going on my panic attack ceased.
https://jillcarnahan.com/2012/11/17/tips-for-dealing-with-herxheimer-or-die-off-reactions/
I would expect a change based on microbe balance changing to be sustained for as long as the diet is maintained. Antibiotic die off rebalances because a person stops taking antibiotics.7 -
Generally it seems that healthier microbiomes tend to result from diets heavily based on plants. That's actually one of my personal concerns about something like keto longer term, although I did not have any negative symptoms when I did it for a while -- definitely not everyone feels bad at all. I also did not feel bad at all when I previously experimented with cutting out added sugar.
Of course, I didn't start eating huge amounts of plain oil either time, and I expect that would turn my stomach.5 -
It should also be noted the gut microbe changes can be good, bad or agnostic. And anytime you change diet, you change your gut microbes.9
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Generally it seems that healthier microbiomes tend to result from diets heavily based on plants. That's actually one of my personal concerns about something like keto longer term, although I did not have any negative symptoms when I did it for a while -- definitely not everyone feels bad at all. I also did not feel bad at all when I previously experimented with cutting out added sugar.
Of course, I didn't start eating huge amounts of plain oil either time, and I expect that would turn my stomach.
But have you ever smelled the inside of a vegan health food store versus a deli? Which microbiome smells the best?
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Is Keto good or bad? The answer is, as with most things is, it depends...4
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GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.12 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
It is fallacious reasoning on both sides. Pay somebody as much money as you want to say the Earth is an oblate spheroid and they're still correct. Pay them nothing to say the Earth is flat, and they're still wrong.
As a heuristic though, I don't find it worth my time to take something presented by Dr. Fung as anything but questionable. I'd rather anyone using him as a source pull the actual study Fung cites and if they can do that, I'll look at that - probably finding it misrepresented or an oddity in terms of the literature.11 -
magnusthenerd wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
It is fallacious reasoning on both sides. Pay somebody as much money as you want to say the Earth is an oblate spheroid and they're still correct. Pay them nothing to say the Earth is flat, and they're still wrong.
As a heuristic though, I don't find it worth my time to take something presented by Dr. Fung as anything but questionable. I'd rather anyone using him as a source pull the actual study Fung cites and if they can do that, I'll look at that - probably finding it misrepresented or an oddity in terms of the literature.
To clarify, I wouldn't doubt what someone was saying simply because they manage to make a living saying it. I'm just saying it's ridiculous to attribute bad motives to WW simply because people are attempting to make money from it while ignoring that half the pre-made coffee drinks in the US seem to be full of butter and MCT oil. WW is a big business, keto is also making a lot of money for a lot of people.
Fung would be a great example of someone who seemingly perfected the art of monetizing his BS.7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »magnusthenerd wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
It is fallacious reasoning on both sides. Pay somebody as much money as you want to say the Earth is an oblate spheroid and they're still correct. Pay them nothing to say the Earth is flat, and they're still wrong.
As a heuristic though, I don't find it worth my time to take something presented by Dr. Fung as anything but questionable. I'd rather anyone using him as a source pull the actual study Fung cites and if they can do that, I'll look at that - probably finding it misrepresented or an oddity in terms of the literature.
To clarify, I wouldn't doubt what someone was saying simply because they manage to make a living saying it. I'm just saying it's ridiculous to attribute bad motives to WW simply because people are attempting to make money from it while ignoring that half the pre-made coffee drinks in the US seem to be full of butter and MCT oil. WW is a big business, keto is also making a lot of money for a lot of people.
Fung would be a great example of someone who seemingly perfected the art of monetizing his BS.
I'd agree it is certainly is inconsistent inference.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
https://weightwatchers.com/ca/en/article/benefits-coconut-oil
True. It seems WW has taken the position if you can not beat them then join the keto crowd and perhaps they will not be the last big company to start promoting into the Keto world wide revival since 100 years later Keto is stronger than ever in the minds of the masses.15 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
https://weightwatchers.com/ca/en/article/benefits-coconut-oil
True. It seems WW has taken the position if you can not beat them then join the keto crowd and perhaps they will not be the last big company to start promoting into the Keto world wide revival since 100 years later Keto is stronger than ever in the minds of the masses.
You obviously have no clue about WW. Almost all high fat foods, red meats and things like butter and oils are extremely high in points. The exception is fatty fish. Doing keto on WW would be very difficult.17 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GaleHawkins wrote: »@fatblatta you may be onto something about keto being harmful to big pocketbooks.
https://cnn.com/2019/02/27/investing/weight-watchers-earnings-stock-ww-oprah-winfrey-keto/index.html
Sure, sure, and nobody has ever tried to monetize the ketogenic diet.
https://weightwatchers.com/ca/en/article/benefits-coconut-oil
True. It seems WW has taken the position if you can not beat them then join the keto crowd and perhaps they will not be the last big company to start promoting into the Keto world wide revival since 100 years later Keto is stronger than ever in the minds of the masses.
You obviously have no clue about WW. Almost all high fat foods, red meats and things like butter and oils are extremely high in points. The exception is fatty fish. Doing keto on WW would be very difficult.
You have to give them credit for trying to pull it off. I was taken back when their CEO named Keto as a reason for performance issues. I read they introduced a new point system. It seems Hollywood has more top players behind Keto than WW. The more negative things coming out about Keto the better we will know it's gaining in popularity. Example is the crotch sound bite.19
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