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Keto diet = good or bad
Replies
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snickerscharlie wrote: »The only thing "the CICO people" are saying is that every single way of eating on the planet still adheres to the energy balance equation that is CICO.
Individuals struggling to lose weight and more importantly, keep it off for the rest of their lives, will continue to struggle until this is accepted as fact...
6 -
Important to remember, no diet is inherently better or worse. All diets work, all diets don't work. It all depends on the individual.5
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Important to remember, no diet is inherently better or worse. All diets work, all diets don't work. It all depends on the individual.
It’s kind of interesting reading through thread after thread like this one where the only people actually proclaiming a diet is superior are those following keto/LCHF. Those challenging that there are magical or exceptional benefits to that diet are not in fact claiming that any particular diet is better, yet that seems constantly to be how the dialogue goes and is interpreted.11 -
The CICO people cannot be moved. Keto people who stick with it and have success also cannot be moved. I have done both and been very successful on both. Both led to significant weight loss. Both improved my blood panels significantly- yes even with eating a ton of fat on keto my blood work improved a lot. Both work. I just find Keto much easier for me because I feel full. I am not a gym rat who spends hours and hours a week in the gym and then brags how they eat pizza and ice cream. Yeah it’s true but you paid a price for it. It doesn’t come free. Enough with the back and forth. But everyone has to be right I guess.
Aww, dear, li'l ol' MFP granny feels sad for you that you don't have any fun exercise! (Much of mine happens on a river, very little in a gym, though).
It's true that carbs make good fuel for doing that fun stuff, but fortunately keto is no bar to being ultra active. Keto people get to have active fun, too!
But, yes, I get to have the fun and the pizza. (Can't see how that's bad.)
Have a happy, healthy old age! :drinker:10 -
I don't have a gym membership and I get pizza and ice cream. I mean, why wouldn't I? A large cheese slice is around 250 calories, same as a premium scoop of Baskin Robbins; an ice cream sandwich is about 160. Two hour walks and strength training? TOTALLY worth it!4
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I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.15 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
It speaks to human nature. Generally, people are psychologically hard-wired with an inherent need to feel special or enlightened or somehow elevated from the uneducated. Self-worth, in many cases, insists upon it.
That's why any sort of perceived in-the-know special interest group - in any area of life - generally gets its hardcore adherents and most vocal proponents amongst the newly-converted.
It's like finding the holy grail.
Even when its not.12 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
It speaks to human nature. Generally, people are psychologically hard-wired with an inherent need to feel special or enlightened or somehow elevated from the uneducated. Self-worth, in many cases, insists upon it.
That's why any sort of perceived in-the-know special interest group - in any area of life - generally gets its hardcore adherents and most vocal proponents amongst the newly-converted.
It's like finding the holy grail.
Even when its not.
@snickerscharlie That bold is so well said, as is the rest, but I focused on that as, seeing it in print like that, it's so prevalent across so many different scenarios and applications.
We all have intrinsic value in my opinion, and a very high value at that, whether an individual knows it or not. I'll continue to seek affirmation elsewhere I think...
Thanks for your input, always appreciated 4 -
The CICO people cannot be moved. Keto people who stick with it and have success also cannot be moved. I have done both and been very successful on both. Both led to significant weight loss. Both improved my blood panels significantly- yes even with eating a ton of fat on keto my blood work improved a lot. Both work. I just find Keto much easier for me because I feel full. I am not a gym rat who spends hours and hours a week in the gym and then brags how they eat pizza and ice cream. Yeah it’s true but you paid a price for it. It doesn’t come free. Enough with the back and forth. But everyone has to be right I guess.
I count myself as a "CICO person" and I could be moved if someone could demonstrate that calories don't matter for weight management. I haven't yet seen that evidence, so yeah . . . I'm a "CICO person."
Keep in mind that "CICO people" acknowledge that some people have success with keto due to the fact that it makes it easier for them to hit their calorie goal (even if they aren't consciously counting calories). Meanwhile, people who claim that carbohydrates are what really make you fat have no good way to explain how there are people who successfully manage their weight while eating moderate or even high carbohydrate diets.16 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
You might enjoy reading the book, Diet Cults, by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about this quite a bit, very interesting stuff!8 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
You might enjoy reading the book, Diet Cults, by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about this quite a bit, very interesting stuff!
It might frighten me too
Thanks zeejane 1 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
You might enjoy reading the book, Diet Cults, by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about this quite a bit, very interesting stuff!
It might frighten me too Thanks zeejane
I've read over 50 books on dieting/nutrition and this one is on my very short list of ones that I recommend I've borrowed it a couple times from the library, so maybe check around and see if you can find a copy to borrow? It's a quick read! 0 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
You might enjoy reading the book, Diet Cults, by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about this quite a bit, very interesting stuff!
It might frighten me too Thanks zeejane
I've read over 50 books on dieting/nutrition and this one is on my very short list of ones that I recommend I've borrowed it a couple times from the library, so maybe check around and see if you can find a copy to borrow? It's a quick read!
I'll check it out for sure. I tend to enjoy reading that deals with the psychology behind certain things, so it's right on for me.
It's only $12 on Amazon, and from the short preview, I like it already.The first clue that that is a fallacy is the sheer variety of diets advocated. Indeed, while all of these competing views claim to be backed by “science,” a good look at actual nutritional science itself suggests that it is impossible to identify a single best way to eat. Fitzgerald advocates an agnostic, rational approach to eating habits, based on one’s own habits, lifestyle, and genetics/body type. 4 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
You might enjoy reading the book, Diet Cults, by Matt Fitzgerald. He talks about this quite a bit, very interesting stuff!
Yeah, that's a great book. Hadn't thought about it for a while.2 -
The CICO people cannot be moved. Keto people who stick with it and have success also cannot be moved. I have done both and been very successful on both. Both led to significant weight loss. Both improved my blood panels significantly- yes even with eating a ton of fat on keto my blood work improved a lot. Both work. I just find Keto much easier for me because I feel full. I am not a gym rat who spends hours and hours a week in the gym and then brags how they eat pizza and ice cream. Yeah it’s true but you paid a price for it. It doesn’t come free. Enough with the back and forth. But everyone has to be right I guess.
You, yourself are a "CICO person". Whenever you eat and drink, you are doing Cico. Now, you may not be "counting calories". Sounds like you miss pizza and ice cream. Exercise can lift your spirits. Just a few thoughts from reading your post. Best wishes for your weight loss.9 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »While sugar is pretty much only carbs (but has benefit as a flavor enhancer for more nutrient-dense foods), a cup of white flour gives 32% of your iron rda. It's also got some potassium. And if it's enriched, then add in B-vitamins.
The enrichment is what adds the iron too, though I'm not sure how bioavailable it is.
Even unenriched bread isn't devoid of nutrients. Yesterday I got 30-55% of my B1-B3, selenium, and folate from unenriched white pita bread in under 300 calories, plus it was physically and mentally satisfying. That's far from empty calories.
I never said it was devoid of nutrient. I wondered about its bioavailability. Many synthetic or added vitamins, and even some of those in plants, are not easily used by people.
But flour is enriched for a reason. In Canada they must sell enriched flour:
"Prohibition against the sale of unenriched white flour and products containing unenriched flour
The mandatory enrichment of white flour with B vitamins, iron and folic acid is a cornerstone of Canada's fortification program aimed at helping to prevent nutrient deficiencies and maintain or improve the nutritional quality of the food supply. Flour enrichment is used as a public health tool because of its widespread use in foods consumed regularly by a large majority of the population."
"Canadian Requirements
The standard for flour (also known as "white flour", "enriched flour" or "enriched white flour") in the FDR requires the mandatory addition of thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid and iron. The addition of vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, magnesium and calcium is optional. All white flour sold in Canada for food use, whether for use in further manufacturing or for sale directly to the consumer, must be enriched. Consequently, all foods sold in Canada that contain white flour must be made with enriched white flour. The sale of unenriched white flour or its use is not permitted in Canada. The only exception to this requirement is white flour sold for the production of gluten or starch.
Section B.13.001 (Food and Drug Regulations):
Flour, White Flour, Enriched Flour or Enriched White Flour
(d)shall contain in 100 grams of flour
0.64 milligrams of thiamine
0.40 milligrams of riboflavin
5.30 milligrams of niacin or niacinamide
0.15 milligrams of folic acid, and
4.4 milligrams of iron
(e) may contain
(xv) in 100 grams of flour
0.31 milligrams of vitamin B6
1.3 milligrams of d-pantothenic acid, and
190 milligrams of magnesium
(f) may contain calcium carbonate, edible bone meal, chalk (B.P.), ground limestone or calcium sulphate in an amount that will provide in 100 grams of flour 140 milligrams of calcium."
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/general-food-requirements-and-guidance/labelling-standards-of-identity-and-grades/for-industry/grain-and-bakery-products/unenriched-flour/eng/1415915977878/1415915979471?wbdisable=true
This is partially why I avoid baking with many gluten-free flours and starches - they are not enriched with vitamins, minerals or fibre, and are often less healthy than a normal (enriched) wheat flour would be. As already stated by another, baking is more about taste than nutrition, but some baking is more nutritious than others.5 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL6 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂7 -
janejellyroll wrote: »The CICO people cannot be moved. Keto people who stick with it and have success also cannot be moved. I have done both and been very successful on both. Both led to significant weight loss. Both improved my blood panels significantly- yes even with eating a ton of fat on keto my blood work improved a lot. Both work. I just find Keto much easier for me because I feel full. I am not a gym rat who spends hours and hours a week in the gym and then brags how they eat pizza and ice cream. Yeah it’s true but you paid a price for it. It doesn’t come free. Enough with the back and forth. But everyone has to be right I guess.
I count myself as a "CICO person" and I could be moved if someone could demonstrate that calories don't matter for weight management. I haven't yet seen that evidence, so yeah . . . I'm a "CICO person."
Keep in mind that "CICO people" acknowledge that some people have success with keto due to the fact that it makes it easier for them to hit their calorie goal (even if they aren't consciously counting calories). Meanwhile, people who claim that carbohydrates are what really make you fat have no good way to explain how there are people who successfully manage their weight while eating moderate or even high carbohydrate diets.
I think all agree that for weight management calories do matter.
In my case Keto was not for weight management but for pain management so the doctors would stop talking about me starting Enbrel injections for pain manage back it 2014. While I needed to lose the 50 pounds that I lost the first year on Keto and have maintained that loss for over 3 years now without intent is just another Keto positive side effect in my case. It is all of the continuing health gains since 2014 that keeps me.
Since I have experienced forty years of serious health problems that are continuing to resolve more each year of eating Keto since Oct 2014 I plan to stay on Keto going forward until I find a better way to prevent my premature death.
Looking back I do not think I would most likely have ever done Keto as a weight loss tool.
For a better chance to see the kids get out of high school and into college and beyond I was able to deal with the first two weeks of hell in the process of breaking my 40 years of carb addiction in my case. I do understand most do not have to address the problem that I had with carbs. Cold turkey dropping carbs to 50 grams daily was the only way I could make Keto a possibility in 2014 at the age of 63. Yes I tried to taper off carbs all of Aug and Sept 2014 as a total failure and facing starting Enbrel injections the first of Nov 2014 I knew Oct 2014 was the last window to test Keto for pain management but I have always been one that acts at the last possible moment it seems.
7 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »While sugar is pretty much only carbs (but has benefit as a flavor enhancer for more nutrient-dense foods), a cup of white flour gives 32% of your iron rda. It's also got some potassium. And if it's enriched, then add in B-vitamins.
The enrichment is what adds the iron too, though I'm not sure how bioavailable it is.
Even unenriched bread isn't devoid of nutrients. Yesterday I got 30-55% of my B1-B3, selenium, and folate from unenriched white pita bread in under 300 calories, plus it was physically and mentally satisfying. That's far from empty calories.
I never said it was devoid of nutrient. I wondered about its bioavailability. Many synthetic or added vitamins, and even some of those in plants, are not easily used by people.
But flour is enriched for a reason. In Canada they must sell enriched flour:
"Prohibition against the sale of unenriched white flour and products containing unenriched flour
The mandatory enrichment of white flour with B vitamins, iron and folic acid is a cornerstone of Canada's fortification program aimed at helping to prevent nutrient deficiencies and maintain or improve the nutritional quality of the food supply. Flour enrichment is used as a public health tool because of its widespread use in foods consumed regularly by a large majority of the population."
"Canadian Requirements
The standard for flour (also known as "white flour", "enriched flour" or "enriched white flour") in the FDR requires the mandatory addition of thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid and iron. The addition of vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, magnesium and calcium is optional. All white flour sold in Canada for food use, whether for use in further manufacturing or for sale directly to the consumer, must be enriched. Consequently, all foods sold in Canada that contain white flour must be made with enriched white flour. The sale of unenriched white flour or its use is not permitted in Canada. The only exception to this requirement is white flour sold for the production of gluten or starch.
Section B.13.001 (Food and Drug Regulations):
Flour, White Flour, Enriched Flour or Enriched White Flour
(d)shall contain in 100 grams of flour
0.64 milligrams of thiamine
0.40 milligrams of riboflavin
5.30 milligrams of niacin or niacinamide
0.15 milligrams of folic acid, and
4.4 milligrams of iron
(e) may contain
(xv) in 100 grams of flour
0.31 milligrams of vitamin B6
1.3 milligrams of d-pantothenic acid, and
190 milligrams of magnesium
(f) may contain calcium carbonate, edible bone meal, chalk (B.P.), ground limestone or calcium sulphate in an amount that will provide in 100 grams of flour 140 milligrams of calcium."
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/general-food-requirements-and-guidance/labelling-standards-of-identity-and-grades/for-industry/grain-and-bakery-products/unenriched-flour/eng/1415915977878/1415915979471?wbdisable=true
This is partially why I avoid baking with many gluten-free flours and starches - they are not enriched with vitamins, minerals or fibre, and are often less healthy than a normal (enriched) wheat flour would be. As already stated by another, baking is more about taste than nutrition, but some baking is more nutritious than others.
This isn't directed at you specifically, but it's an interesting observation I have noticed. People have every right to avoid what they want to avoid and include what they want to include in their diet for whatever reason they see fit. If a diet feels better, tastes better, makes dieting easier, helps with certain conditions...etc, it's a good choice for the person. There doesn't need to be this kind of categorization that usually happens to justify how their choices are better when their own diet may have the same issues. Here are some things I heard:
- You eat more food on keto: no you don't, if the diet is satisfying it feels like you eat more. keto is one of the worst diets out there volume and variety wise.
- Keto is more nutritious: no it isn't, if the dieter starts eating more vegetables, they made the choice towards better nutrition. The same choice could have been made without keto.
- Keto doesn't have empty calories like bread: most added fats like butter and oil have horrible nutritional density. I don't see people advocating completely avoiding them in favor of more nutritious fats like avocado or nuts.
- You lose more weight on keto: no I don't. You lose more weight on keto because you're either just starting and losing water, or you find it satisfying.
... and a few others I can't think of right now.
It's the same for most named diets. People keep trying to justify their choices when the only justification needed is "I like it better".27 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
This is one of the more unsettling things I've read recently.7 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
So no "give us our daily bread" for them?10 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »estherdragonbat wrote: »While sugar is pretty much only carbs (but has benefit as a flavor enhancer for more nutrient-dense foods), a cup of white flour gives 32% of your iron rda. It's also got some potassium. And if it's enriched, then add in B-vitamins.
The enrichment is what adds the iron too, though I'm not sure how bioavailable it is.
Even unenriched bread isn't devoid of nutrients. Yesterday I got 30-55% of my B1-B3, selenium, and folate from unenriched white pita bread in under 300 calories, plus it was physically and mentally satisfying. That's far from empty calories.
I never said it was devoid of nutrient. I wondered about its bioavailability. Many synthetic or added vitamins, and even some of those in plants, are not easily used by people.
But flour is enriched for a reason. In Canada they must sell enriched flour:
"Prohibition against the sale of unenriched white flour and products containing unenriched flour
The mandatory enrichment of white flour with B vitamins, iron and folic acid is a cornerstone of Canada's fortification program aimed at helping to prevent nutrient deficiencies and maintain or improve the nutritional quality of the food supply. Flour enrichment is used as a public health tool because of its widespread use in foods consumed regularly by a large majority of the population."
"Canadian Requirements
The standard for flour (also known as "white flour", "enriched flour" or "enriched white flour") in the FDR requires the mandatory addition of thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid and iron. The addition of vitamin B6, pantothenic acid, magnesium and calcium is optional. All white flour sold in Canada for food use, whether for use in further manufacturing or for sale directly to the consumer, must be enriched. Consequently, all foods sold in Canada that contain white flour must be made with enriched white flour. The sale of unenriched white flour or its use is not permitted in Canada. The only exception to this requirement is white flour sold for the production of gluten or starch.
Section B.13.001 (Food and Drug Regulations):
Flour, White Flour, Enriched Flour or Enriched White Flour
(d)shall contain in 100 grams of flour
0.64 milligrams of thiamine
0.40 milligrams of riboflavin
5.30 milligrams of niacin or niacinamide
0.15 milligrams of folic acid, and
4.4 milligrams of iron
(e) may contain
(xv) in 100 grams of flour
0.31 milligrams of vitamin B6
1.3 milligrams of d-pantothenic acid, and
190 milligrams of magnesium
(f) may contain calcium carbonate, edible bone meal, chalk (B.P.), ground limestone or calcium sulphate in an amount that will provide in 100 grams of flour 140 milligrams of calcium."
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/food/general-food-requirements-and-guidance/labelling-standards-of-identity-and-grades/for-industry/grain-and-bakery-products/unenriched-flour/eng/1415915977878/1415915979471?wbdisable=true
This is partially why I avoid baking with many gluten-free flours and starches - they are not enriched with vitamins, minerals or fibre, and are often less healthy than a normal (enriched) wheat flour would be. As already stated by another, baking is more about taste than nutrition, but some baking is more nutritious than others.
This isn't directed at you specifically, but it's an interesting observation I have noticed. People have every right to avoid what they want to avoid and include what they want to include in their diet for whatever reason they see fit. If a diet feels better, tastes better, makes dieting easier, helps with certain conditions...etc, it's a good choice for the person. There doesn't need to be this kind of categorization that usually happens to justify how their choices are better when their own diet may have the same issues. Here are some things I heard:
- You eat more food on keto: no you don't, if the diet is satisfying it feels like you eat more. keto is one of the worst diets out there volume and variety wise.
- Keto is more nutritious: no it isn't, if the dieter starts eating more vegetables, they made the choice towards better nutrition. The same choice could have been made without keto.
- Keto doesn't have empty calories like bread: most added fats like butter and oil have horrible nutritional density. I don't see people advocating completely avoiding them in favor of more nutritious fats like avocado or nuts.
- You lose more weight on keto: no I don't. You lose more weight on keto because you're either just starting and losing water, or you find it satisfying.
... and a few others I can't think of right now.
It's the same for most named diets. People keep trying to justify their choices when the only justification needed is "I like it better".
Or that they experience benefits that you don't.
I can eat a few more calories when my carbs are very low. I know this by weighing my food and logging. It is not a great deal more, but it is more. But it is definitely less volume because I do not eat a great deal of plant foods.
You are right that it is not always more nutritious. If one is replacing whole foods with added fat ( often empty calories as you stated), then they are losing nutrition if the replace refined and processed carbs with whole foods, especially animal sources, they will gain nutrition.9 -
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.
Vegetarianism is encouraged, but not required, for Seventh Day Adventists. The only actually prohibited foods are non-kosher meats. According to a recent study, only about 35% of Adventists identified as vegetarian or vegan. What they do encourage, and many seem to do, is eat a diet that includes lots of plant foods even if they are sometimes eating meat, fish, dairy, and eggs.
3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
This is one of the more unsettling things I've read recently.
My post or the link? lolamusedmonkey wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
So no "give us our daily bread" for them?
I wish I had thought of that
I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.
Absolutely. I'm not condemning or judging anyone at all...it's just such a radical departure from what I've been taught that it really jumped out at me.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
This is one of the more unsettling things I've read recently.
My post or the link? lolamusedmonkey wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
So no "give us our daily bread" for them?
I wish I had thought of thatI'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.
Absolutely. I'm not condemning or judging anyone at all...it's just such a radical departure from what I've been taught that it really jumped out at me.
Sorry I was unclear! I was referring to the link, not at all to your post. 1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
This is one of the more unsettling things I've read recently.
My post or the link? lolamusedmonkey wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
So no "give us our daily bread" for them?
I wish I had thought of thatI'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.
Absolutely. I'm not condemning or judging anyone at all...it's just such a radical departure from what I've been taught that it really jumped out at me.
Sorry I was unclear! I was referring to the link, not at all to your post.
Thanks jane - I can be pretty obtuse and unclear at times, figured I better ask 2 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I'm airing one last thought now that the "conversation" seems to be over. Something that bugs the heck out of me is how I've seen some keto sites (and heard people) present it. That ketovale site ..."Join our movement"...
What movement? It's a way someone chooses to eat, not a political/religious/gonna save your soul thing. It's food.
Sounds almost cult like from some people, so I really appreciate the folks who just call it what it is.
Ok, done now lol.
That does sound creepy....
I'm hoping it refers to the movement to have low carb or keto recognized as a healthy diet choice that can treat hyperinsulinemia and CVD, rather than getting ranked last by the Daily Mail. LOL
I've actually seen a Christian group built around keto. Being a Christian, that's particularly disturbing to me.
https://www.fittoservegroup.com/why-combining-the-keto-diet-with-our-christian-faith-transformed-our-lives/
I won't go into all the reasons that bothers me, suffice to say I would react the same way regardless of the WoE..
It's food, enjoy what we like and or need and or have available. That's not at you nvmomketo, just a general statement. 🙂
Huh. I suppose it is nice that their diet helped them strengthen their religious beliefs. It is almost like what the 7th day Adventists claim except they exclude most animal products instead if most of a macro.
It was interesting to read. What they said was God leading them I felt was my body leading me. Different interpretations I guess.
Vegetarianism is encouraged, but not required, for Seventh Day Adventists. The only actually prohibited foods are non-kosher meats. According to a recent study, only about 35% of Adventists identified as vegetarian or vegan. What they do encourage, and many seem to do, is eat a diet that includes lots of plant foods even if they are sometimes eating meat, fish, dairy, and eggs.
Interesting. I did not realize this. Thank you.0 -
https://dietdoctor.com/us-researchers-explore-link-between-sugar-insulin-keto-and-cancer?fbclid=IwAR0ZTNRUdSH1Kg_6JmaICLTJxo4IrdAGnjtnnlYJns7F3ssZLtFaZ0-JkyE
US researchers explore link between sugar, insulin, keto, and cancer
This is one more reason I say Keto is a great way to eat.
As most know I did not and 4.5 years later do not do keto for weight loss but to try and prevent/reverse eating related health conditions. Keto has been around for 100 years to help manage health issues beyond the control of Rx meds.
Medical science officially studying the sugar/cancer connection is welcome news and stands to keep Keto in the news for the next 100 years.
"Said Dr. Scher of the work, and Mukherjee’s involvement:
How wonderful that this mainstream trial is about to get underway, especially with a curious and open-minded researcher at the helm. Knowledge is power, and shining the bright light of mainstream attention and resources on the potential of keto diets as an adjuvant cancer therapy is very good news indeed."18
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