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Body Positive Movement - For or against?

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  • SpadesheartSpadesheart Posts: 391Member Member Posts: 391Member Member
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.

    I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.

    Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.

    Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.

    Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.

    I think it's very worth the discussion.

    All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉

    They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.

    I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).

    I think it has been a useful discussion.

    They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.

    Enjoy!
  • SpadesheartSpadesheart Posts: 391Member Member Posts: 391Member Member
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.

    I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.

    Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.

    Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.

    Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.

    I think it's very worth the discussion.

    All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉

    They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.

    I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).

    I think it has been a useful discussion.

    They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.

    Enjoy!

    Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.

    I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.

    The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
  • SpadesheartSpadesheart Posts: 391Member Member Posts: 391Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.

    I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.

    Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.

    Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.

    Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.

    I think it's very worth the discussion.

    All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉

    They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.

    I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).

    I think it has been a useful discussion.

    They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.

    Enjoy!

    Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.

    I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.

    The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

    So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?

    Sure, that makes sense.

    ;)

    On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.

    Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.

    The irony is not lost, but the point stands hahaha

    I don't really want to engage with the topic anymore because I don't want to spend 20 minutes typing out my thoughts over again on a phone keyboard. Why would I if they keep nukeing it?
  • AnnPT77AnnPT77 Posts: 11,576Member Member Posts: 11,576Member Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    wmd1979 wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    MikePTY wrote: »
    Phirrgus wrote: »
    What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.

    I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.

    Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.

    Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.

    Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.

    I think it's very worth the discussion.

    All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉

    They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.

    I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).

    I think it has been a useful discussion.

    They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.

    Enjoy!

    Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.

    I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.

    The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?

    So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?

    Sure, that makes sense.

    ;)

    On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.

    Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.

    The irony is not lost, but the point stands hahaha

    I don't really want to engage with the topic anymore because I don't want to spend 20 minutes typing out my thoughts over again on a phone keyboard. Why would I if they keep nukeing it?

    In just the two most recent pages of threads in debate, mostly about this general topic area (a little broader than current thread, but similar neighborhood & commentary), and not closed:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10732519/large-restaurant-customers-need-special-accommodation

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10727242/why-do-people-think-you-can-be-healthy-at-every-size
  • goldthistimegoldthistime Posts: 3,043Member Member Posts: 3,043Member Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    I don't worry about other people's health, unless they're very close to me (and I'm lucky not to have to worry about any of my family it friends). Other people are allowed to make their own choices about food and exercise, and they're allowed to have different priorities too. I guess that makes me indifferent.

    In the wild west of the late 1800s this is true. Make bad choices, die early and the buzzards take care of the carcass

    Fast forward to 2019 medical costs are out of control and these costs are in some way shared by everyone. Read somewhere obesity is pretty directly tied to 10% of US medical spending. It is an issue that impacts you.

    I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.
    edited May 11
  • Theoldguy1Theoldguy1 Posts: 372Member Member Posts: 372Member Member
    Theoldguy1 wrote: »
    I don't worry about other people's health, unless they're very close to me (and I'm lucky not to have to worry about any of my family it friends). Other people are allowed to make their own choices about food and exercise, and they're allowed to have different priorities too. I guess that makes me indifferent.

    In the wild west of the late 1800s this is true. Make bad choices, die early and the buzzards take care of the carcass

    Fast forward to 2019 medical costs are out of control and these costs are in some way shared by everyone. Read somewhere obesity is pretty directly tied to 10% of US medical spending. It is an issue that impacts you.

    I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.

    A knee replacement is around $50k. Check out the cost of diabetes (and it's related issues), heart disease, and other medical issues associate with obesity. Most likely the older active people with knee replacement aren't suffering from these much more expensive issues or at least not to the same extent.
  • 7elizamae7elizamae Posts: 734Member Member Posts: 734Member Member
    You have to love yourself in order to respect and improve yourself. Sometimes change starts with finding what you like about yourself and expanding on that.
    No one has the right to look down on anyone. If all anyone ever feels is negativity from themselves and the world around them they will never be in the right mindset to make meaningful lasting change.
    Embrace yourself, embrace others, it does not mean that you continue bad habits or get stuck, it means you can love yourself while you are getting healthier.
    No one has the right to judge anyone, especially not from an outside appearance. Lift them up, help them along, be a good example, try to involve them in positive activities, yes.
    But we do have the right to look down on others and to judge others. (Indeed, you are looking down upon and judging the judgers with your remark.) We all have the right to think whatever we want. Treating someone poorly is another thing. You can think someone is behaving foolishly or wrongly and still treat them with love and kindness.

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