What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
The discussion is worth the time, it's not worth the time here where it will likely be closed down again for juvenile reasons within short order. likely when people will inevitably reach an impasse and will just start talking past eachother, taking great offense to even non inflammatory statements along the way. And the mod team is much more likely to exercise the nuclear option, in truly idiotic fashion.
It's not worth the time to try to have nuanced debate in this climate.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.
The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
That's true lol. Maybe it has to do with the fact that a "way of eating" that has a lot of controversy surrounding it is easier to find info on, good or bad vs a topic that essentially highlights how capable people are of manipulating/verbally demeaning others? Much more subjective.
I don't know Mike. There's a lot to discuss here, but no really solid solutions other than hey, how about we just be nice to each other. That's a tall order sometimes though.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.
The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?
Sure, that makes sense.
On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.
Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.
The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?
Sure, that makes sense.
On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.
Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.
The irony is not lost, but the point stands hahaha
I don't really want to engage with the topic anymore because I don't want to spend 20 minutes typing out my thoughts over again on a phone keyboard. Why would I if they keep nukeing it?
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.
The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?
Sure, that makes sense.
On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.
Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.
The irony is not lost, but the point stands hahaha
I don't really want to engage with the topic anymore because I don't want to spend 20 minutes typing out my thoughts over again on a phone keyboard. Why would I if they keep nukeing it?
In just the two most recent pages of threads in debate, mostly about this general topic area (a little broader than current thread, but similar neighborhood & commentary), and not closed:
What is the point of this thread on this site? It's already been opened a couple times since I've been browsing the forums here. Someone is fruitlessly going to get offended by some assinine, likely unrelated, nonsense and it's going to be closed again within 2 weeks. This unto itself kind of proves a point that people are too sensitive when it comes to self image to actually have a nuanced discussion. Might as well not waste the time.
I don't think it's a waste of time as a debate topic, especially when so many people don't even agree on what the movement stands for. I keep it pretty simple in that I know that Body dysmorphic disorder is a real thing, unrealistic marketing tactics targeting young folks mostly is a real thing, people hammering and abusing other people over appearance alone, whether obese or not.
Older more mature folks deal with insecurities to any degree over their appearance, but young women and men often have no idea that it's ok to accept themselves as they are. My youngest daughter was one of them. She is not and never was obese. She went through hell at the hands of other girls in high school. Another friend of mine, years before this movement ever became a thing, was a model, and physically she was a stunner. Athletic and beautiful and she was relentlessly hammered by both her employer and other women - too skinny, too muscular, too this or that.
Just my 2 cents, but this is worth discussing. I believe everyone has an intrinsic value apart from appearance and that value is under attack.
Others hijacking an effort to show men and women that they have value regardless of appearance shouldn't negate the good message that people who would never win a beauty contest can be every bit as beautiful, or more....than some of those who can.
I think it's very worth the discussion.
The discussion is worth the time, it's not worth the time here where it will likely be closed down again for juvenile reasons within short order. likely when people will inevitably reach an impasse and will just start talking past eachother, taking great offense to even non inflammatory statements along the way. And the mod team is much more likely to exercise the nuclear option, in truly idiotic fashion.
It's not worth the time to try to have nuanced debate in this climate.
We used to just close down topics with a reminder and let people walk away to rethink their decisions, but as you said, all that got us was a repeat of the same behavior. Warning and banning people is much more effective, which is what we're doing when the topic is temporarily closed.
I don't worry about other people's health, unless they're very close to me (and I'm lucky not to have to worry about any of my family it friends). Other people are allowed to make their own choices about food and exercise, and they're allowed to have different priorities too. I guess that makes me indifferent.
In the wild west of the late 1800s this is true. Make bad choices, die early and the buzzards take care of the carcass
Fast forward to 2019 medical costs are out of control and these costs are in some way shared by everyone. Read somewhere obesity is pretty directly tied to 10% of US medical spending. It is an issue that impacts you.
I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.
I don't worry about other people's health, unless they're very close to me (and I'm lucky not to have to worry about any of my family it friends). Other people are allowed to make their own choices about food and exercise, and they're allowed to have different priorities too. I guess that makes me indifferent.
In the wild west of the late 1800s this is true. Make bad choices, die early and the buzzards take care of the carcass
Fast forward to 2019 medical costs are out of control and these costs are in some way shared by everyone. Read somewhere obesity is pretty directly tied to 10% of US medical spending. It is an issue that impacts you.
I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.
A knee replacement is around $50k. Check out the cost of diabetes (and it's related issues), heart disease, and other medical issues associate with obesity. Most likely the older active people with knee replacement aren't suffering from these much more expensive issues or at least not to the same extent.
I don't worry about other people's health, unless they're very close to me (and I'm lucky not to have to worry about any of my family it friends). Other people are allowed to make their own choices about food and exercise, and they're allowed to have different priorities too. I guess that makes me indifferent.
In the wild west of the late 1800s this is true. Make bad choices, die early and the buzzards take care of the carcass
Fast forward to 2019 medical costs are out of control and these costs are in some way shared by everyone. Read somewhere obesity is pretty directly tied to 10% of US medical spending. It is an issue that impacts you.
I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.
A knee replacement is around $50k. Check out the cost of diabetes (and it's related issues), heart disease, and other medical issues associate with obesity. Most likely the older active people with knee replacement aren't suffering from these much more expensive issues or at least not to the same extent.
Meanwhile various congenital issues (including type 1 diabetes and various heart defects), alzheimer's, treatment for mental health issues, cancer treatment, epilepsy...
Taking the myopic view isn't really the best in terms of healthcare spending in the US. Nevermind that maybe the US government could look to other countries for ideas. The US' arguably least favorite neighbor in the Caribbean (Cuba) is has been doing a shockingly good job of things since their most recent revolution - and that's despite "wide spread poverty" (as one article in The Atlantic put it). Their infant mortality rate is also lower than the US'. There are plenty of other countries that the US has a better relationship with that have very good healthcare systems that spend far less on their patients, including their patients with chronic diseases that aren't at all related to obesity.
Of course body positivity is a good thing. Everyone should be encouraged to love themselves with the body they have. Personally I think it applies to every body, it is not only geared towards fat women, and it's not the same as promoting obesity, or the "healthy at every size" thing.
It's ok for an overweight woman to wear a bikini to the pool just like it is for a thin woman to. Anyone who has a body and goes to the beach has a "beach body". It goes the other way too though. An example that really annoyed me was that "all about the bass" song, where so many women thought it was such an awesome "body positive" song, when in reality, it's not body positive at all. It's positive towards women with a lot of curves, but it's negative towards women who don't. We are all shaped differently, and we should all be accepted and able to feel good about ourselves.
You have to love yourself in order to respect and improve yourself. Sometimes change starts with finding what you like about yourself and expanding on that. No one has the right to look down on anyone. If all anyone ever feels is negativity from themselves and the world around them they will never be in the right mindset to make meaningful lasting change.
Embrace yourself, embrace others, it does not mean that you continue bad habits or get stuck, it means you can love yourself while you are getting healthier. No one has the right to judge anyone, especially not from an outside appearance. Lift them up, help them along, be a good example, try to involve them in positive activities, yes.
But we do have the right to look down on others and to judge others. (Indeed, you are looking down upon and judging the judgers with your remark.) We all have the right to think whatever we want. Treating someone poorly is another thing. You can think someone is behaving foolishly or wrongly and still treat them with love and kindness.
I am for it. My wife is overweight and she tries real hard to lose. But she does not need to have anybody making her feel like crap. Everyone who is fat knows they are fat. And it is 100% up to them to take action on it or to not take action on it. Its not up to us fit people to fat shame or point out to overweight people what they already know about themselves.
Look at it this way:there are a whole lot of dumb people around nowadays too. But do we go around and point it out to them ?
I don't believe in body shaming or body positive. Each persons body is their own.
That being said, telling people who are overweight, that it's ok being fat, is not good, your telling them, they are fine as they are, but their not, you can't be at your best health and be fat.
Some people who are overweight hold their own pretty good, their numbers are good and except for the number on the scale, their health is good, but it won't last, at some point their luck will run out.
I have always been overweight, my whole family is, I was one of those "overweight healthy people", then I hit 35 and it went down hill from there, I got HBP, my cholesterol went up, my asthma got worse, even though my weight didn't change.
I've been told many times, if I love my body, I'll want to take care of it better, no, if I love my body as is, then why change? I love it as is, hence I'll stay fat. But nobody better tell me I'm fat and need to lose weight either....
Unless your my doctor, or I ask your opinion, keep your mouth shut whether I'm too fat or too skinning. Only I can comment on the size of my body.
Replies
All of this. Plus there's only like one of these type discussion posts for every 200 of the "Anyone doing Keto?" posts. 😉
The discussion is worth the time, it's not worth the time here where it will likely be closed down again for juvenile reasons within short order. likely when people will inevitably reach an impasse and will just start talking past eachother, taking great offense to even non inflammatory statements along the way. And the mod team is much more likely to exercise the nuclear option, in truly idiotic fashion.
It's not worth the time to try to have nuanced debate in this climate.
They're rare because they keep closing them down. The site actively discourages debate of this nature, regardless of them having a debate section. So why even have it here is what I'm saying.
I haven't seen the site discouraging these kinds of discussions or all that many even start. On average, keto discussions probably cause more controversy (although most don't).
I think it has been a useful discussion.
They discourage them by closing them. I'm glad you guys are having fun with it though. They have closed down specifically this topic twice since I've been here, but maybe it will be different this time.
Enjoy!
Lots of different topics get closed but that doesn't mean that the topic itself is discouraged. What is discouraged is being disrespectful of others and I think MFP is pretty clear about that. There have been far more keto discussions shut down than this one, yet the greatest volume of discussion still seems to be about keto.
I am including those keto debates. I mean actual nuanced debate in general.
The first option shouldn't be closing down threads. Why waste the time even having debate if they plan to throw out the baby with the bathwater?
That's true lol. Maybe it has to do with the fact that a "way of eating" that has a lot of controversy surrounding it is easier to find info on, good or bad vs a topic that essentially highlights how capable people are of manipulating/verbally demeaning others? Much more subjective.
I don't know Mike. There's a lot to discuss here, but no really solid solutions other than hey, how about we just be nice to each other. That's a tall order sometimes though.
So . . . you're in this discussion - multiple posts worth - just to say that we shouldn't bother to have this discussion?
Sure, that makes sense.
On topic: Body positivity? Good. VeryVery good. Bodies are cool, and it's much easier to live if one has one, so they're worth valuing for that reason alone. I would wish that everyone could find some joy and value in the one they have. If one thinks of one's own as less than ideal, improvement is possible in many ways for most folks, and can be a worthwhile investment of energy.
Once things become "a movement", the fringes can get a little weird. Some of the weird fringe bits (of this or any movement) kinda make me eye-roll.
The irony is not lost, but the point stands hahaha
I don't really want to engage with the topic anymore because I don't want to spend 20 minutes typing out my thoughts over again on a phone keyboard. Why would I if they keep nukeing it?
In just the two most recent pages of threads in debate, mostly about this general topic area (a little broader than current thread, but similar neighborhood & commentary), and not closed:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10732519/large-restaurant-customers-need-special-accommodation
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10727242/why-do-people-think-you-can-be-healthy-at-every-size
We used to just close down topics with a reminder and let people walk away to rethink their decisions, but as you said, all that got us was a repeat of the same behavior. Warning and banning people is much more effective, which is what we're doing when the topic is temporarily closed.
I always wonder about this kind of statement. When people are in poor health and die young, do they not actually cost the medical system less than someone who lives to 90? Especially if that 90 year old engaged in healthy physical activity that resulted in injuries that caused him/her to seek medical treatment. Where I play tennis the courts are filled with people who have had knee replacements, necessitated because of sports injuries. I wonder how the other 90% of medical spending is broken down.
A knee replacement is around $50k. Check out the cost of diabetes (and it's related issues), heart disease, and other medical issues associate with obesity. Most likely the older active people with knee replacement aren't suffering from these much more expensive issues or at least not to the same extent.
Meanwhile various congenital issues (including type 1 diabetes and various heart defects), alzheimer's, treatment for mental health issues, cancer treatment, epilepsy...
Taking the myopic view isn't really the best in terms of healthcare spending in the US. Nevermind that maybe the US government could look to other countries for ideas. The US' arguably least favorite neighbor in the Caribbean (Cuba) is has been doing a shockingly good job of things since their most recent revolution - and that's despite "wide spread poverty" (as one article in The Atlantic put it). Their infant mortality rate is also lower than the US'. There are plenty of other countries that the US has a better relationship with that have very good healthcare systems that spend far less on their patients, including their patients with chronic diseases that aren't at all related to obesity.
It's ok for an overweight woman to wear a bikini to the pool just like it is for a thin woman to. Anyone who has a body and goes to the beach has a "beach body". It goes the other way too though. An example that really annoyed me was that "all about the bass" song, where so many women thought it was such an awesome "body positive" song, when in reality, it's not body positive at all. It's positive towards women with a lot of curves, but it's negative towards women who don't. We are all shaped differently, and we should all be accepted and able to feel good about ourselves.
Look at it this way:there are a whole lot of dumb people around nowadays too. But do we go around and point it out to them ?
That being said, telling people who are overweight, that it's ok being fat, is not good, your telling them, they are fine as they are, but their not, you can't be at your best health and be fat.
Some people who are overweight hold their own pretty good, their numbers are good and except for the number on the scale, their health is good, but it won't last, at some point their luck will run out.
I have always been overweight, my whole family is, I was one of those "overweight healthy people", then I hit 35 and it went down hill from there, I got HBP, my cholesterol went up, my asthma got worse, even though my weight didn't change.
I've been told many times, if I love my body, I'll want to take care of it better, no, if I love my body as is, then why change? I love it as is, hence I'll stay fat. But nobody better tell me I'm fat and need to lose weight either....
Unless your my doctor, or I ask your opinion, keep your mouth shut whether I'm too fat or too skinning. Only I can comment on the size of my body.