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The most polarizing food: where do you stand?

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Replies

  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    ceiswyn wrote: »
    This really isn't an either/or situation.

    ^^^This...

  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,009 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    DanSanthomes wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    But it seems absurd to me to call a homemade cookie "not food." It's made with the same basic ingredients that you can use to make a bunch of other food items (flour = bread, pasta, etc.). Pretending like dessert items aren't food at all is just an unjustified rhetorical move.

    Now I get you are arguing that there's some distinction between a homemade cookie and cookies sold in grocery stores (or these cookies specifically, dunno), but I don't think that's a supportable claim if we are talking about nutrition (i.e., what is food). And I'm not sure on what basis you can say that these are not "edible" without even trying them and simultaneously complain that too many people are inclined to overeat them (which suggests the issue is that some find them plenty edible).

    Is it that they are colorful? That's hardly unique to store-bought baked goods. I am usually more of a pie person, but a few years ago I made some lemon-lavendar cupcakes (something like this, except mine had some lavendar in the cupcakes themselves: https://thecakeblog.com/2017/02/lemon-lavender-cupcakes.html). They were pretty and colorful like those show (less frosting because I don't like the frosting to cake ratio to be so high). That did not change the fact that they were food. Not food I'd recommend having as too high a proportion of one's diet, because they are high cal and lower in nutrients, but food all the same.

    Sorry Lemurcat,

    Was talking about those shocking manufactured cookies from previous page that set everybody off. Opinion seemed to be that they were gross so I asked the question, in essence, "Why do we make crap like this?". *If you make your own cookies, and therefore know what's in them, all power to you.

    Nothing to do with colour either - I'm not cakeist. (Nothing better than a plate full of foods in different colours).

    To explain my stance a little. I'm from the UK and over here we have an unhealthy Office Cake Culture whereby it seems every day there's a different excuse to bring in even more brightly coloured 'baubles' to tempt our tastebuds. Nowhere more does this seem to be a thing than our glorious NHS (National Health Service) where I worked some years ago. As a noob there I watched as each day a new 'treat' was brought in for us all to try - each one seemingly more outlandish and less food-looking than the last. The sad thing was, I was surrounded by overweight people on constant diets who eventually caved and had a bite then felt pressured to bring something else in the next day. Never in my 30+ years working in offices had I seen such an array of garbage 'food' - and the effects of it. So please pardon me if this item was a particularly 'polarizing' food. :-)

    So, you seem to be drawing a distinction between homemade cookies, and these cookies. Let's dig into that a bit, shall we? (I have no pre-defined agenda here: I don't eat the Lofthouse cookies, think they're gross, but I'm very laissez faire when it comes to others' choices.)

    This started with your initial post being woo-ed, and you asking why. So let's approach this in a fact-based manner, since that would be a science-ish thing to do.

    According to the Food Lion (grocery store) web site, these cookies have the following ingredients:
    Sugar, Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Margarine (Palm Oil, Water, Soybean Oil, Salt, Contains 2% or less of: Mono- & Diglycerides, Calcium Disodium EDTA [Preservative], Artificial Flavor, Annatto [Color], Vitamin A Palmitate), Eggs, Contains 2% or less of: Water, Corn Starch, Vegetable Oil (Palm Kernel Oil and/or Palm Oil and/or Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil [Cottonseed and/or Soybean Oil]), Dextrin, Skim Milk, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Sulfate, Monocalcium Phosphate), Soy Lecithin (Emulsifier),Confectioner's Glaze (Lac Resin), Food Starch-Modified, Colors (Carmine [Color], Blue 1, Blue 1 Lake, Blue 2, Blue 2 Lake, Red 3, Red 40, Red 40 Lake, Yellow 5, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 6, Yellow 6 Lake), Polysorbate 60, Carnauba Wax, Sodium Propionate (Preservative).

    If I were making cookies at home, most of those ingredients would be in the cookies, especially true for the ingredients at the top (more predominant ones): Sugar, flour, some kind of oil or shortening (probably a simpler one like butter, or coconut oil, because yummier), eggs, milk, leavening. I wouldn't put in artificial flavors (natural vanilla extract is yummier IMO), probably not the artificial colors (I mostly don't want colors - but if I did it would be standard commercial food coloring, which would likely be this same stuff). I certainly wouldn't put in the preservatives (gonna eat 'em or freeze 'em), carnauba wax (?!), or the Confectioners Glaze (Lac Resin) (no idea what that even is).

    So, bottom line: Similar ingredients, differences in the minor items. (This might justify a "woo", in some people's minds.)

    Next up, nutrition: Specifically, do they have nutritional value, or are they "masquerading as food".
    Nutrition Facts
    Serving Size 38 g
    Servings Per Container 10
    Amount Per Serving
    Calories 160.0 Cal
    Calories From Fat 50.0 Cal
    % Daily Value
    Total Fat 6.0g 9.0%
    Saturated Fat 2.5 g 13.0
    Trans Fat 0.0 g
    Cholesterol 5.0 mg 2.0
    Sodium 100.0 mg4.0
    Total Carbohydrate 26.0g 9.0%
    Dietary Fiber 0.0 g 0.0
    Sugars 16.0 g
    Protein 1.0 g
    Vitamin A 4.0
    Vitamin C 0.0
    Calcium 0.0
    Iron 4.0

    So, "food energy" (calories ;) ), tiny (negligible) amount of protein, a little fat, tiny vitamin A and iron. Not great. Probably not that far off home-made, but realistically, very low nutrition for the calories, mostly sugar and carbs. They might be a truly affirmative choice for an endurance athlete who enjoyed them and needed the calories. For anyone else who enjoys them, seems like a "sometimes food".

    Conclusion: Nothing in particular. Just some facts. It's just that I don't mostly enjoy rant-y emotional stuff. Facts are good. ;)

    I love this post on many levels... =)
  • Mrsmonas
    Mrsmonas Posts: 37 Member
    I love those stupid sugar cookies :D
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    Carlos_421 wrote: »
    It's that they are tasteless discs of dry sadness.

    You don't even want to know how I mistakenly read that last sentence.
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    TheRoadDog wrote: »
    Favorite Cookie (most won't get this)

    zxhz7vyl8ba1.png

    I picked up what you were putting down. ;)

    ***

    DanSanthomes,

    I didn't woo you, pinkie swear, but here are my thoughts. :)

    Most people have a list of foods that are "worth it" to eat, at least sometimes, even if we are super health conscious. No use judging someone else's list. It's like household budgets -- everyone is going to make their own decisions, which COULD be picked apart by another person, and so why even do it?

    As to not all food is meant to be a taste sensation, for a lot of people it works out to be just that? There's a lot of healthy food that personally delights my taste buds. A lot of crap, too. But I find it theoretically quite feasible to enjoy the vast majority of meals. I've enjoyed them thin and active, and well-cushioned and sedentary.

    I find the cookies in question to be decidedly not worth it. They look like they'd be delicious, but experience tells me they're gross to me. But if they're someone else's favorites, then that's great.
  • DanSanthomes
    DanSanthomes Posts: 135 Member
    Thanks for all the detail guys - seriously, this does seem to be a subject that divides people. I will always be in the camp that prefers 'food' so maybe we'll have to have a beer instead and discuss the England V Norway football match.

    Just my observation - and I'm not being facetious (again) - by the looks of it, most people think these cookies are gross/vile/not worth it etc. so...

  • ceiswyn
    ceiswyn Posts: 2,256 Member
    DanSanthomes wrote: »
    Thanks for all the detail guys - seriously, this does seem to be a subject that divides people. I will always be in the camp that prefers 'food' so maybe we'll have to have a beer instead and discuss the England V Norway football match.

    Just my observation - and I'm not being facetious (again) - by the looks of it, most people think these cookies are gross/vile/not worth it etc. so...

    I also prefer food. Those cookies are food. They may not be particularly nutritious food, they may not be food that you personally approve of, but claiming that they are not a source of energy for the human body is simply factually incorrect. Your personal biases do not define what is and is not food in the world.
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    I like pizza with pineapple, I sell pizza with pineapple, I get why some people do not like it, so I also sell pizza without it.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,759 Member
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »
    knghd664ysr8.gif
    This has been a great read..

    Hope it don't get shut down..


    So.. who what about pizza with pineapple eh?

    Pizza with pineapple and canadian bacon or pepperoni. The sweetness of the pineapple counteracts the spicyness of the pepperoni.

    And, MY GOD, the amount of your posts!
  • slimgirljo15
    slimgirljo15 Posts: 269,456 Member
    edited June 2019
    glassyo wrote: »
    slimgirljo15 wrote: »
    knghd664ysr8.gif
    This has been a great read..

    Hope it don't get shut down..


    So.. who what about pizza with pineapple eh?

    Pizza with pineapple and canadian bacon or pepperoni. The sweetness of the pineapple counteracts the spicyness of the pepperoni.

    And, MY GOD, the amount of your posts!

    Yesss, totally agree.. haven't tried Canadian bacon though, but regular bacon is good.

    Yeah, I'm a chatty Cathy 😂
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    Okay, grilled cheese with or without mayo or Miracle Whip, and dipped in ketchup or no?
  • Carlos_421
    Carlos_421 Posts: 5,132 Member
    MichelleMinn wrote: »
    Okay, grilled cheese with or without mayo or Miracle Whip, and dipped in ketchup or no?

    What?? What??
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,620 Member
    MichelleMinn wrote: »
    Okay, grilled cheese with or without mayo or Miracle Whip, and dipped in ketchup or no?

    I've never dipped a grilled cheese sandwich in ketchup, but I may have to try that. It sounds promising. (I love ketchup, and lots of it, but mostly on fried things - especially all sorts of fried potatoes . . . but grilled cheese is a fried thing . . . hmm). Mayo is OK, but optional on grilled cheese. Miracle Whip is always an abomination.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,759 Member
    MichelleMinn wrote: »
    Okay, grilled cheese with or without mayo or Miracle Whip, and dipped in ketchup or no?

    Is that even a thing? Ew! It has to be tomato soup (ketchup's sorta like that I suppose) or nothing.
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    Yes, it's a thing. I can speak with authority, because my restaurant has grilled cheese in the name. :)

    You can actually use mayo instead of butter to brown it.

    I grew up dipping it in ketchup, and my husband thinks that's gross. He grew up using Miracle Whip inside, and just assumed everyone did.
  • glassyo
    glassyo Posts: 7,759 Member
    MichelleMinn wrote: »
    Yes, it's a thing. I can speak with authority, because my restaurant has grilled cheese in the name. :)

    You can actually use mayo instead of butter to brown it.

    I grew up dipping it in ketchup, and my husband thinks that's gross. He grew up using Miracle Whip inside, and just assumed everyone did.

    You do sound very authorative. :disappointed:

    I don't completely hate miracle whip...it has an interesting taste. I'm not big on mayo but I'm ok if it's just thinly spread on a sandwich (if someone else is making the sandwich and I have no say...otherwise it gets kept off).
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
    edited June 2019
    MichelleMinn wrote: »
    Okay, grilled cheese with or without mayo or Miracle Whip, and dipped in ketchup or no?

    I have never heard of mayo or Miracle Whip on grilled cheese and cannot even begin to explain how horrified I am by the thought. I am going to work to repress all memories of the idea.

    I don't really like ketchup, but the ketchup thing doesn't seem so weird for those who do. (I love it dipped in tomato soup, that's classic.)
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,304 Member
    People often make grilled cheese and tomato here - as in slices of actual tomato in the griller with the cheese/bread.

    Ham/cheese/tomato is also a popular toasted sandwich combo.

    Never known anyone to put mayo on a toasted sandwich though - not tempted to try it either :s
  • slimgirljo15
    slimgirljo15 Posts: 269,456 Member
    paperpudding wrote: »
    People often make grilled cheese and tomato here - as in slices of actual tomato in the griller with the cheese/bread.

    Ham/cheese/tomato is also a popular toasted sandwich combo.

    Never known anyone to put mayo on a toasted sandwich though - not tempted to try it either :s

    I'm with you.. can't imagine mayonnaise on a toasted sandwich. :s
  • MichelleMinn
    MichelleMinn Posts: 90 Member
    I love tomatoes in or on a sandwich of almost any sort -- not PB&J.
  • DanSanthomes
    DanSanthomes Posts: 135 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    DanSanthomes wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »

    But it seems absurd to me to call a homemade cookie "not food." It's made with the same basic ingredients that you can use to make a bunch of other food items (flour = bread, pasta, etc.). Pretending like dessert items aren't food at all is just an unjustified rhetorical move.

    Now I get you are arguing that there's some distinction between a homemade cookie and cookies sold in grocery stores (or these cookies specifically, dunno), but I don't think that's a supportable claim if we are talking about nutrition (i.e., what is food). And I'm not sure on what basis you can say that these are not "edible" without even trying them and simultaneously complain that too many people are inclined to overeat them (which suggests the issue is that some find them plenty edible).

    Is it that they are colorful? That's hardly unique to store-bought baked goods. I am usually more of a pie person, but a few years ago I made some lemon-lavendar cupcakes (something like this, except mine had some lavendar in the cupcakes themselves: https://thecakeblog.com/2017/02/lemon-lavender-cupcakes.html). They were pretty and colorful like those show (less frosting because I don't like the frosting to cake ratio to be so high). That did not change the fact that they were food. Not food I'd recommend having as too high a proportion of one's diet, because they are high cal and lower in nutrients, but food all the same.

    Sorry Lemurcat,

    Was talking about those shocking manufactured cookies from previous page that set everybody off. Opinion seemed to be that they were gross so I asked the question, in essence, "Why do we make crap like this?". *If you make your own cookies, and therefore know what's in them, all power to you.

    Nothing to do with colour either - I'm not cakeist. (Nothing better than a plate full of foods in different colours).

    To explain my stance a little. I'm from the UK and over here we have an unhealthy Office Cake Culture whereby it seems every day there's a different excuse to bring in even more brightly coloured 'baubles' to tempt our tastebuds. Nowhere more does this seem to be a thing than our glorious NHS (National Health Service) where I worked some years ago. As a noob there I watched as each day a new 'treat' was brought in for us all to try - each one seemingly more outlandish and less food-looking than the last. The sad thing was, I was surrounded by overweight people on constant diets who eventually caved and had a bite then felt pressured to bring something else in the next day. Never in my 30+ years working in offices had I seen such an array of garbage 'food' - and the effects of it. So please pardon me if this item was a particularly 'polarizing' food. :-)

    So, you seem to be drawing a distinction between homemade cookies, and these cookies. Let's dig into that a bit, shall we? (I have no pre-defined agenda here: I don't eat the Lofthouse cookies, think they're gross, but I'm very laissez faire when it comes to others' choices.)

    This started with your initial post being woo-ed, and you asking why. So let's approach this in a fact-based manner, since that would be a science-ish thing to do.

    According to the Food Lion (grocery store) web site, these cookies have the following ingredients:
    Sugar, Enriched Bleached Wheat Flour (Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Margarine (Palm Oil, Water, Soybean Oil, Salt, Contains 2% or less of: Mono- & Diglycerides, Calcium Disodium EDTA [Preservative], Artificial Flavor, Annatto [Color], Vitamin A Palmitate), Eggs, Contains 2% or less of: Water, Corn Starch, Vegetable Oil (Palm Kernel Oil and/or Palm Oil and/or Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil [Cottonseed and/or Soybean Oil]), Dextrin, Skim Milk, Natural & Artificial Flavors, Leavening (Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Sulfate, Monocalcium Phosphate), Soy Lecithin (Emulsifier),Confectioner's Glaze (Lac Resin), Food Starch-Modified, Colors (Carmine [Color], Blue 1, Blue 1 Lake, Blue 2, Blue 2 Lake, Red 3, Red 40, Red 40 Lake, Yellow 5, Yellow 5 Lake, Yellow 6, Yellow 6 Lake), Polysorbate 60, Carnauba Wax, Sodium Propionate (Preservative).

    If I were making cookies at home, most of those ingredients would be in the cookies, especially true for the ingredients at the top (more predominant ones): Sugar, flour, some kind of oil or shortening (probably a simpler one like butter, or coconut oil, because yummier), eggs, milk, leavening. I wouldn't put in artificial flavors (natural vanilla extract is yummier IMO), probably not the artificial colors (I mostly don't want colors - but if I did it would be standard commercial food coloring, which would likely be this same stuff). I certainly wouldn't put in the preservatives (gonna eat 'em or freeze 'em), carnauba wax (?!), or the Confectioners Glaze (Lac Resin) (no idea what that even is).

    So, bottom line: Similar ingredients, differences in the minor items. (This might justify a "woo", in some people's minds.)

    Next up, nutrition: Specifically, do they have nutritional value, or are they "masquerading as food".
    Nutrition Facts
    Serving Size 38 g
    Servings Per Container 10
    Amount Per Serving
    Calories 160.0 Cal
    Calories From Fat 50.0 Cal
    % Daily Value
    Total Fat 6.0g 9.0%
    Saturated Fat 2.5 g 13.0
    Trans Fat 0.0 g
    Cholesterol 5.0 mg 2.0
    Sodium 100.0 mg4.0
    Total Carbohydrate 26.0g 9.0%
    Dietary Fiber 0.0 g 0.0
    Sugars 16.0 g
    Protein 1.0 g
    Vitamin A 4.0
    Vitamin C 0.0
    Calcium 0.0
    Iron 4.0

    So, "food energy" (calories ;) ), tiny (negligible) amount of protein, a little fat, tiny vitamin A and iron. Not great. Probably not that far off home-made, but realistically, very low nutrition for the calories, mostly sugar and carbs. They might be a truly affirmative choice for an endurance athlete who enjoyed them and needed the calories. For anyone else who enjoys them, seems like a "sometimes food".

    Conclusion: Nothing in particular. Just some facts. It's just that I don't mostly enjoy rant-y emotional stuff. Facts are good. ;)

    Thanks for this, AnnPT77 - absolutely spot on! Non emotional, just hard facts.

    Awesome list of ingredients there followed by Nutrition Facts. They just don't lie.

    I can't wait to feed them yummy cookies to my toddler, and pack them into the older kids lunch boxes!

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