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Fat Shaming Plates or Political Correctness Run Amok?
Replies
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midlomel1971 wrote: »I think it's *kitten* that you'd never see these kind of plates geared towards men. Do they have Dad Jeans plates?
Is it also *kitten* that you don't see kitchen utensils geared towards men?
As in that the assumption is that only women cook because of the idea that a woman's place is in the kitchen and that conversely, the only place men can cooking food at is outside on a grill? Yes. There's been more than a little discussion of this in various arenas. There's also been quite a lot of discussion about the societal idea that men can be paid to cook (as chefs) but women can't.
Sociology and women's studies (and gender studies)...this isn't new.
edit: you could probably also find this in some subdisciplines of anthropology as well and if you're looking at language you'd be able to find plenty of discussion about this if you're looking at sociolinguistics and some subfields of discourse analysis.
As in people are going to design, market, and sell their products in ways that make them the most money. Not designing a similar plate for men is not sexist. It's business. most men don't care about what their plate looks like. Same reason Mobil doesn't make/market oil for women... not because women CAN'T change their oil or have their car serviced... but because most women don't care about what kind of oil is in their car. How many commercials for ED meds run during daytime soap operas? Probably zero. How many tampon commercials run during Saturday's coverage of the Masters?
It's a business decision, not a statement on gender, appearance, ability, or place in society. At most, it's a reflection of current society.
I really suggest that you read some intro sociology and/or gender studies texts if you want to look at this issue critically.
I'm not saying that ideas about how a woman should look/dress, where she should work, etc don't exist. I know they do.
I'm saying that I think it's a leap to suggest that companies making and marketing products with gender bias are also making intentional statements about how those genders should act, look, live. They are making and marketing products within existing generalizations (stereotypes) as a way to target and audience they think will be most receptive to their product.
I would argue that it's a systemic issue. It's not like one individual person decided, for instance, that women aren't good at STEM related fields so what's the point in having women's restrooms at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station during the Apollo 11 launch?
I don't disagree.
But if you are angered (for lack of a better word, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth) by the plates, specifically the gender bias as a male equivalent would never be made... And think there is a systematic problem regarding gender roles/perceptions (again, not wanting to put words in anyone's mouth)...
Then either you're ignoring basic business practices or suggesting businesses should be on the forefront of social change, right? Or is there some nuance here I'm missing?
While I do think businesses should operate at/above a certain moral standard, I don't think that bar is so high that something like these plates should be off limits.
I'm just struggling to see how these plates (specifically the manufacturer's decision to make them and Macy's initial decision to sell them) are clearly and necessarily making a statement about how women should look and what is/isn't acceptable. If you wanted to say that the plates are reinforcing existing beliefs, then, while I think that's a stretch, I can at least see that side of the argument. But I just can't go so far as to see how Macy's is intentionally shaming people based on portion sizes.6 -
Kathryn247 wrote: »I wouldn't call it fat shaming, but I think it's a bad image for people who are already prone to undereating. You can have a whole plate of food and still wear skinny jeans - you don't have to - and shouldn't - starve yourself.
This is the way I interpreted the plate. It's unhealthy for people with an already unhealthy way of looking at their food portions, specifically the skinny jeans portion. But offensive? No, I'm not getting that from it.1 -
I think it’s fantastic and funny! I want one. I’d put my carbs, protein and fats in the skinny jeans section and fill the Mum jeans section with veggies.5
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midlomel1971 wrote: »I think it's *kitten* that you'd never see these kind of plates geared towards men. Do they have Dad Jeans plates?
Is it also *kitten* that you don't see kitchen utensils geared towards men?
As in that the assumption is that only women cook because of the idea that a woman's place is in the kitchen and that conversely, the only place men can cooking food at is outside on a grill? Yes. There's been more than a little discussion of this in various arenas. There's also been quite a lot of discussion about the societal idea that men can be paid to cook (as chefs) but women can't.
Sociology and women's studies (and gender studies)...this isn't new.
edit: you could probably also find this in some subdisciplines of anthropology as well and if you're looking at language you'd be able to find plenty of discussion about this if you're looking at sociolinguistics and some subfields of discourse analysis.
As in people are going to design, market, and sell their products in ways that make them the most money. Not designing a similar plate for men is not sexist. It's business. most men don't care about what their plate looks like. Same reason Mobil doesn't make/market oil for women... not because women CAN'T change their oil or have their car serviced... but because most women don't care about what kind of oil is in their car. How many commercials for ED meds run during daytime soap operas? Probably zero. How many tampon commercials run during Saturday's coverage of the Masters?
It's a business decision, not a statement on gender, appearance, ability, or place in society. At most, it's a reflection of current society.
I really suggest that you read some intro sociology and/or gender studies texts if you want to look at this issue critically.
I'm not saying that ideas about how a woman should look/dress, where she should work, etc don't exist. I know they do.
I'm saying that I think it's a leap to suggest that companies making and marketing products with gender bias are also making intentional statements about how those genders should act, look, live. They are making and marketing products within existing generalizations (stereotypes) as a way to target and audience they think will be most receptive to their product.
I would argue that it's a systemic issue. It's not like one individual person decided, for instance, that women aren't good at STEM related fields so what's the point in having women's restrooms at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station during the Apollo 11 launch?
I don't disagree.
But if you are angered (for lack of a better word, I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth) by the plates, specifically the gender bias as a male equivalent would never be made... And think there is a systematic problem regarding gender roles/perceptions (again, not wanting to put words in anyone's mouth)...
Then either you're ignoring basic business practices or suggesting businesses should be on the forefront of social change, right? Or is there some nuance here I'm missing?
While I do think businesses should operate at/above a certain moral standard, I don't think that bar is so high that something like these plates should be off limits.
I'm just struggling to see how these plates (specifically the manufacturer's decision to make them and Macy's initial decision to sell them) are clearly and necessarily making a statement about how women should look and what is/isn't acceptable. If you wanted to say that the plates are reinforcing existing beliefs, then, while I think that's a stretch, I can at least see that side of the argument. But I just can't go so far as to see how Macy's is intentionally shaming people based on portion sizes.
I don't have the physical or mental energy to write a good reply right now (I had a regatta and didn't sleep well - because regatta plus it was hot in the room I'm in), but I wanted to reply sooner rather than later. I think you're at least partially misunderstanding my criticism. What I'm essentially saying is that these plates are a symptom of the systemic issues at play.5 -
The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.2
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unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.4 -
unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.
..... pretty much
imho ~ it's a relative thing.
The better one's living conditions, the easier it is to be concerned with minutia.
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Motorsheen wrote: »unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.
..... pretty much
imho ~ it's a relative thing.
The better one's living conditions, the easier it is to be concerned with minutia.
Also known as: #firstworldproblems
6 -
It's a mix of that and how much it affects you and your everyday life. There are things that I will and have gone to my state's capital to lobby about. That, for better or worse, is a fairly small list of things. There are other things that I'll push hard against, but again, that's a bit different because when I push against those things it involves actually trying to change some sort of organizational policy.Motorsheen wrote: »unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.
..... pretty much
imho ~ it's a relative thing.
The better one's living conditions, the easier it is to be concerned with minutia.
And then there are things like the flagrant disregard of the rules of the river that one small watercraft organization has. That, is something I will just be pissed off about but likely won't actually try to do anything about.3 -
Motorsheen wrote: »unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.
..... pretty much
imho ~ it's a relative thing.
The better one's living conditions, the easier it is to be concerned with minutia.
Now now...let's not be bringing perspective into this.6 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »Motorsheen wrote: »unstableunicorn wrote: »The plate and the outrage are equally stupid. Someone had a cheeky idea with an unrealistic understanding of portions. That’s all.
As is evidenced by this thread, people can be outraged about anything.
..... pretty much
imho ~ it's a relative thing.
The better one's living conditions, the easier it is to be concerned with minutia.
Also known as: #firstworldproblems
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I'm sure the marketing firm that came up with this and presented it did some field survey's - did they use Macy's customers though?
If so, and found acceptable, and found willing enough to purchase (if that's the case, what does it say about Macy's customers?) - it would be interesting to have seen the meetings where it was presented and obviously enough of those that saw it, or the right people, let it fly.
Also be interesting to see the fallout from this now internally. Marketing firm only winner? Or maybe never used again so perhaps not. Project people and managers that gave approval?
How high up do these things go now, or part of the attitude change of letting teams doing risky stuff to be more creative. If allowed, what happens to those people/teams now?
And I'd agree with several of the comments - not a bad idea regarding portion control, but poor way to get there.
Lol, as a former marketing agency drone, I must say, you're giving them way too much credit by thinking they did field surveys and whatnot. It's pretty much standard operating procedure to see just how out there a marketing gimmick can get and still get away with it.3 -
midlomel1971 wrote: »I think it's *kitten* that you'd never see these kind of plates geared towards men. Do they have Dad Jeans plates?
I would guess 99.99999% of these plates are purchased by females. I have never seen an adilt male eating off a plate with wtiting on it.4 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »I see these as plates a millenial woman would buy so she and her friends could fill them up with
avocado salad and go, "Oh, I am so bad. So so bad. Hehe!! I'm gonna get so fat but I don't care because YUM!! Hehe!! Mom jeans here I come! LAWL!!"
And by "millenial woman," I mean my wife.
My wife would do this. Lol6 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I see these as plates a millenial woman would buy so she and her friends could fill them up with
avocado salad and go, "Oh, I am so bad. So so bad. Hehe!! I'm gonna get so fat but I don't care because YUM!! Hehe!! Mom jeans here I come! LAWL!!"
And by "millenial woman," I mean my wife.
My wife would do this. Lol
@Carlos_421 will she get you a plate for your Oreos?(trick question: you're supposed to eat them right out of the box)1 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I see these as plates a millenial woman would buy so she and her friends could fill them up with
avocado salad and go, "Oh, I am so bad. So so bad. Hehe!! I'm gonna get so fat but I don't care because YUM!! Hehe!! Mom jeans here I come! LAWL!!"
And by "millenial woman," I mean my wife.
My wife would do this. Lol
@Carlos_421 will she get you a plate for your Oreos?(trick question: you're supposed to eat them right out of the box)
Lol only wimps put their oreos on plates.
My oreos would never survive the trip from bag to plate.5 -
I think the same folks who did the What the Forecast app did one called Back Seat Navigator or something. It did just that, it insulted you if you didn't follow the directions.
Mostly just an overuse of the f-bomb on the first go around. I removed it as I wasn't impressed.
I did try Cookie Monster as my Waze voice for a while, but that too got old.bmeadows380 wrote: »Crafty_camper123 wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »Please do not look at this if you're easily offended
https://touch.adverts.ie/healthcare/world-slimming-novelty-portion-control-weight-loss-diet-plate-watcher/14448468
Does anyone else read this in an Australian accent?
I could do without the outer border, but find the rest of it funny (though to be fair, I'd find it get old pretty quickly, but good for a short chuckle). Much better executed than the "mom jeans" plate, for sure.
I love that plate, lol. I was picturing a Gordon Ramsey type british Accent. I'm the type that finds insults funny though. I would find an evil version of MFP that calls me (funny) names such as on that plate when I blow my calories for the day both amusing and useful, lol.
I always thought it could be funny to have an insulting mode on my car GPS - one that calls you names or gripes when it tells you turn and you don't, and maybe even whines and refuses to talk to you if you miss a certain number of turns in a row......
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