Fat-positive Feminism and Weight Loss

djpgrl28

I don't except my fat or anyone elses...i know some people are big and have mulitple reason for it...and can not always exercise but they can eat right. I don't want to be supermodel skinny I just want to be healthy for my kid...I go through ups and downs of F it im just gonna eat what I want and be happy but then I know thats not good either. I just want to be healthy ...I like my curves and being thicker than I used to be but I need to lose weight and be healthy...its a struggle.

quirkytizzy

There is also the idea that if one calls themselves a feminist they are fighting ONLY for women's rights. No, we're not. No one questions my inclusivity if I am fighting for gay rights. No one insists that I do not care for the plight of others if I say I'm fighting for gay's rights.

The same MUST be noted for feminists. Just because I am a feminist does NOT mean I am blind to the plight of others who are struggling for equality. It means that feminist issues, like others, are important enough for me to give a name to.

alphabetsoup2013

Totally agree with what Roses and Such said:

"I believe you can be a feminist and body positive no matter what your size, you CAN love your body and still try to lose some weight. The two are not mutually exclusive. I don't believe you should shame anybody for the way they look, fat or thin, because you have no idea what their story is and frankly, unless you are a parent or medical professional, their bodies are none of your business."

[ And sometimes, even if you're a parent, it's none of your business -- at least when your kids reach a certain age. ] :-)

Great discussion, btw.

benchsquad65

There's nothing positive about being severely overweight. Being fat is hell- accepting obesity is the same thing as accepting heart disease, diabetes, and a life of unnecessary difficulty.

SStruthers13

I consider myself an extremely positive, strong and independent woman. I will not ever, nor do I want to be, a feminist. Although I agree with the basic concepts of feminism (equality) I believe it is, as we practice it today, unhealthy. I reference the OP's quandary. How she can feel conflicted and hypocritical puzzles me? Her personal quest of self improvement has no bearings on others or how she should relate to, or feel about, others. I see this with many people today.

OP, just because you want to be healthy and look good does not mean you should feel guilty, or as you put it, a hypocrite, because others chose to be unhealthy and unattractive. Your not a feminist, your so politically correct your actually preventing yourself from functioning properly.

emmalouc93

*Women on average STILL earn less than men for performing the same jobs.

*Women on average STILL comprise less of the power positions in society. (CEO's, Lawmakers, etc etc)

*Women on average STILL fight for equal healthcare.

*Women on average STILL fought to be properly heard in cases of sexual assault.

1. "The day that the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, women earned 59 cents for every dollar a man earned on average. Today, it's about 77 cents," the president said. "Over the course of her career, a working woman with a college degree will earn on average hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a man who does the same work. "

Nonsense. The 77 percent figure is bogus because it averages all full-time women, no matter what education and profession, with all full-time men. Even with such averaging, the latest Labor Department figures show that women working full-time make 81 percent of full-time men's wages. For men and women who work 40 hours weekly, the ratio is 88 percent.

Unmarried childless women's salaries, however, often exceed men's. In a comparison of unmarried and childless men and women between the ages of 35 and 43, women earn more: 108 cents on a man's dollar.

Mr. President, if you're so concerned about the wage gap, why not fix it in your White House? In 2012, female White House staffers made 87 cents on a man's dollar, according to an analysis of published salaries by the Daily Caller.

Women make less than men because they choose more humanities and fewer science and math majors at college. Then, when they graduate, more enter the non-profit or government sector. Finally, many choose to work fewer hours to better combine work and family. In May, 2013, according to Labor Department data, 23 percent of women worked part-time, compared to 11 percent of men."

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

3. I'm not even entertaining this one, because that is simply not true. If you're referring to 'right to birth control', then I will say I disagree with it completely, because it is not the governments place to take care of it, it's your/ your partners responsibility, no one elses. Please explain what you mean if not that, because there most definitely is equal healthcare in other aspects.

4. Men have literally no voice when it comes to sexual assault cases, and most of the time men being raped is more of a joke than a serious issue. It happens, yet it is not as heard of and it definitely isn't taken seriously. Women are taken seriously at the tiniest complaint, and a lot of claims are proven to be fake, mostly by women (not hating on women, this is fact) and thus, it makes real cases a lot less viewed because a stupid few want to make a joke out of something so bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

We ARE equal, we can vote, we can work or have children, we can make choices. Third worlds countries is a different story, and frankly, I think feminists in developed countries complaining about their 'lack of equal rights' is rich compared to what some women on this earth are forced to do.

Feminism of today is synonymous with spoiled brat syndrome as far as I am concerned. If women care so much about equality, they shouldn't support women having more rights than men. That isn't true equality.

I'm for equal rights for everyone, men and women, and that was achieved many, many years ago.


I am not a Feminist, I detest Feminism as it is TODAY, and do not feel bad about saying it. Weight has nothing to do with feminism, and in the times we are in now, overweight women are a lot more accepted, to say anything else is to have your head buried in the sand. What I'm saying may not be popular but it is the truth.

BeachIron

*Women on average STILL earn less than men for performing the same jobs.

*Women on average STILL comprise less of the power positions in society. (CEO's, Lawmakers, etc etc)

*Women on average STILL fight for equal healthcare.

*Women on average STILL fought to be properly heard in cases of sexual assault.

1. "The day that the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, women earned 59 cents for every dollar a man earned on average. Today, it's about 77 cents," the president said. "Over the course of her career, a working woman with a college degree will earn on average hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a man who does the same work. "

Nonsense. The 77 percent figure is bogus because it averages all full-time women, no matter what education and profession, with all full-time men. Even with such averaging, the latest Labor Department figures show that women working full-time make 81 percent of full-time men's wages. For men and women who work 40 hours weekly, the ratio is 88 percent.

Unmarried childless women's salaries, however, often exceed men's. In a comparison of unmarried and childless men and women between the ages of 35 and 43, women earn more: 108 cents on a man's dollar.

Mr. President, if you're so concerned about the wage gap, why not fix it in your White House? In 2012, female White House staffers made 87 cents on a man's dollar, according to an analysis of published salaries by the Daily Caller.

Women make less than men because they choose more humanities and fewer science and math majors at college. Then, when they graduate, more enter the non-profit or government sector. Finally, many choose to work fewer hours to better combine work and family. In May, 2013, according to Labor Department data, 23 percent of women worked part-time, compared to 11 percent of men."

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

3. I'm not even entertaining this one, because that is simply not true. If you're referring to 'right to birth control', then I will say I disagree with it completely, because it is not the governments place to take care of it, it's your/ your partners responsibility, no one elses. Please explain what you mean if not that, because there most definitely is equal healthcare in other aspects.

4. Men have literally no voice when it comes to sexual assault cases, and most of the time men being raped is more of a joke than a serious issue. It happens, yet it is not as heard of and it definitely isn't taken seriously. Women are taken seriously at the tiniest complaint, and a lot of claims are proven to be fake, mostly by women (not hating on women, this is fact) and thus, it makes real cases a lot less viewed because a stupid few want to make a joke out of something so bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

We ARE equal, we can vote, we can work or have children, we can make choices. Third worlds countries is a different story, and frankly, I think feminists in developed countries complaining about their 'lack of equal rights' is rich compared to what some women on this earth are forced to do.

Feminism of today is synonymous with spoiled brat syndrome as far as I am concerned. If women care so much about equality, they shouldn't support women having more rights than men. That isn't true equality.

I'm for equal rights for everyone, men and women, and that was achieved many, many years ago.


I am not a Feminist, I detest Feminism as it is TODAY, and do not feel bad about saying it. Weight has nothing to do with feminism, and in the times we are in now, overweight women are a lot more accepted, to say anything else is to have your head buried in the sand. What I'm saying may not be popular but it is the truth.

:flowerforyou:

Wildflower0106

*Women on average STILL earn less than men for performing the same jobs.

*Women on average STILL comprise less of the power positions in society. (CEO's, Lawmakers, etc etc)

*Women on average STILL fight for equal healthcare.

*Women on average STILL fought to be properly heard in cases of sexual assault.

1. "The day that the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, women earned 59 cents for every dollar a man earned on average. Today, it's about 77 cents," the president said. "Over the course of her career, a working woman with a college degree will earn on average hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a man who does the same work. "

Nonsense. The 77 percent figure is bogus because it averages all full-time women, no matter what education and profession, with all full-time men. Even with such averaging, the latest Labor Department figures show that women working full-time make 81 percent of full-time men's wages. For men and women who work 40 hours weekly, the ratio is 88 percent.

Unmarried childless women's salaries, however, often exceed men's. In a comparison of unmarried and childless men and women between the ages of 35 and 43, women earn more: 108 cents on a man's dollar.

Mr. President, if you're so concerned about the wage gap, why not fix it in your White House? In 2012, female White House staffers made 87 cents on a man's dollar, according to an analysis of published salaries by the Daily Caller.

Women make less than men because they choose more humanities and fewer science and math majors at college. Then, when they graduate, more enter the non-profit or government sector. Finally, many choose to work fewer hours to better combine work and family. In May, 2013, according to Labor Department data, 23 percent of women worked part-time, compared to 11 percent of men."

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

3. I'm not even entertaining this one, because that is simply not true. If you're referring to 'right to birth control', then I will say I disagree with it completely, because it is not the governments place to take care of it, it's your/ your partners responsibility, no one elses. Please explain what you mean if not that, because there most definitely is equal healthcare in other aspects.

4. Men have literally no voice when it comes to sexual assault cases, and most of the time men being raped is more of a joke than a serious issue. It happens, yet it is not as heard of and it definitely isn't taken seriously. Women are taken seriously at the tiniest complaint, and a lot of claims are proven to be fake, mostly by women (not hating on women, this is fact) and thus, it makes real cases a lot less viewed because a stupid few want to make a joke out of something so bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

We ARE equal, we can vote, we can work or have children, we can make choices. Third worlds countries is a different story, and frankly, I think feminists in developed countries complaining about their 'lack of equal rights' is rich compared to what some women on this earth are forced to do.

Feminism of today is synonymous with spoiled brat syndrome as far as I am concerned. If women care so much about equality, they shouldn't support women having more rights than men. That isn't true equality.

I'm for equal rights for everyone, men and women, and that was achieved many, many years ago.


I am not a Feminist, I detest Feminism as it is TODAY, and do not feel bad about saying it. Weight has nothing to do with feminism, and in the times we are in now, overweight women are a lot more accepted, to say anything else is to have your head buried in the sand. What I'm saying may not be popular but it is the truth.

YOU ROCK!

quirkytizzy

1. "The day that the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, women earned 59 cents for every dollar a man earned on average. Today, it's about 77 cents," the president said. "Over the course of her career, a working woman with a college degree will earn on average hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a man who does the same work. "

Nonsense. The 77 percent figure is bogus because it averages all full-time women, no matter what education and profession, with all full-time men. Even with such averaging, the latest Labor Department figures show that women working full-time make 81 percent of full-time men's wages. For men and women who work 40 hours weekly, the ratio is 88 percent.

Is 88% equal? Are you satisfied with that?

I'm not.

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

Yes they do often choose to have children. Many don't - in another part of your post you mentioned that many female staffers at the White House ARE paid equal - if not over what men make. But the mere fact that women CHOOSE to have children should not prevent them from having equal opportunity to rise in status.

3. I'm not even entertaining this one, because that is simply not true. If you're referring to 'right to birth control', then I will say I disagree with it completely, because it is not the governments place to take care of it, it's your/ your partners responsibility, no one elses. Please explain what you mean if not that, because there most definitely is equal healthcare in other aspects.

How about mammograms? Wellness check ups? Cervical check ups? Procedures that weren't - until recently - offered under the same costs in an insurance plan? Or that many of the nations providers for such services are currently under fire? (Planned Parenthood, for example.)

4. Men have literally no voice when it comes to sexual assault cases, and most of the time men being raped is more of a joke than a serious issue. It happens, yet it is not as heard of and it definitely isn't taken seriously. Women are taken seriously at the tiniest complaint, and a lot of claims are proven to be fake, mostly by women (not hating on women, this is fact) and thus, it makes real cases a lot less viewed because a stupid few want to make a joke out of something so bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

Men do suffer greatly - and often more - when they assaulted. If a feminist denies this, she is not a feminist.

That being said, a woman who goes to report sexual assault is often branded a liar. Or called into question because she's previously had sex. (I'm 32 years old. I've had lots of sex. LOOOTTSSS of sex. That doesn't mean I want to be assaulted.) One in every 3 women will be sexually assaulted, often more than once.

I am that woman. I know many of those women. I am not a slut, a *kitten*, a liar, or any of that.

But I am called one. No woman should be. No man should be. Yet we have people in power claiming that "The female body has ways to shut that whole thing down" or "Some girls rape so easy." (Quotes from politicians currently in power)

That's basic science being spat on - and the science of my vagina, no less. That needs to be fought for.

Anyways - I am donating plasma today and need to keep my heart rate low. It's good to have these discussions, but I get really wound up. I do appreciate you arguing your points succinctly and calmly. Thank you for that.

(Also I hate the quoting system here. Oi.)

SStruthers13

*Women on average STILL earn less than men for performing the same jobs.

*Women on average STILL comprise less of the power positions in society. (CEO's, Lawmakers, etc etc)

*Women on average STILL fight for equal healthcare.

*Women on average STILL fought to be properly heard in cases of sexual assault.

1. "The day that the Equal Pay Act was signed into law, women earned 59 cents for every dollar a man earned on average. Today, it's about 77 cents," the president said. "Over the course of her career, a working woman with a college degree will earn on average hundreds of thousands of dollars less than a man who does the same work. "

Nonsense. The 77 percent figure is bogus because it averages all full-time women, no matter what education and profession, with all full-time men. Even with such averaging, the latest Labor Department figures show that women working full-time make 81 percent of full-time men's wages. For men and women who work 40 hours weekly, the ratio is 88 percent.

Unmarried childless women's salaries, however, often exceed men's. In a comparison of unmarried and childless men and women between the ages of 35 and 43, women earn more: 108 cents on a man's dollar.

Mr. President, if you're so concerned about the wage gap, why not fix it in your White House? In 2012, female White House staffers made 87 cents on a man's dollar, according to an analysis of published salaries by the Daily Caller.

Women make less than men because they choose more humanities and fewer science and math majors at college. Then, when they graduate, more enter the non-profit or government sector. Finally, many choose to work fewer hours to better combine work and family. In May, 2013, according to Labor Department data, 23 percent of women worked part-time, compared to 11 percent of men."

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

3. I'm not even entertaining this one, because that is simply not true. If you're referring to 'right to birth control', then I will say I disagree with it completely, because it is not the governments place to take care of it, it's your/ your partners responsibility, no one elses. Please explain what you mean if not that, because there most definitely is equal healthcare in other aspects.

4. Men have literally no voice when it comes to sexual assault cases, and most of the time men being raped is more of a joke than a serious issue. It happens, yet it is not as heard of and it definitely isn't taken seriously. Women are taken seriously at the tiniest complaint, and a lot of claims are proven to be fake, mostly by women (not hating on women, this is fact) and thus, it makes real cases a lot less viewed because a stupid few want to make a joke out of something so bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape#Rumney_.282006.29

We ARE equal, we can vote, we can work or have children, we can make choices. Third worlds countries is a different story, and frankly, I think feminists in developed countries complaining about their 'lack of equal rights' is rich compared to what some women on this earth are forced to do.

Feminism of today is synonymous with spoiled brat syndrome as far as I am concerned. If women care so much about equality, they shouldn't support women having more rights than men. That isn't true equality.

I'm for equal rights for everyone, men and women, and that was achieved many, many years ago.


I am not a Feminist, I detest Feminism as it is TODAY, and do not feel bad about saying it. Weight has nothing to do with feminism, and in the times we are in now, overweight women are a lot more accepted, to say anything else is to have your head buried in the sand. What I'm saying may not be popular but it is the truth.

This. Especially in the 3rd to last paragraph. "spoiled brat syndrome" I'm old enough to remember when women could NOT work outside the home, when we had no choice but to have kids or there was something wrong with us, not being able to buy something on credit w/o my husband and having jokes made by the male bank worker when my husband put me on HIS bank account. When I turned 21 someone shook my hand and said, "Happy Birthday! Your free white and 21. It's just to damn bad your a woman" and the men there laughed. Most of you complaining have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I reference this woman's very well informed post.

quirkytizzy

This. Especially in the 3rd to last paragraph. "spoiled brat syndrome" I'm old enough to remember when women could NOT work outside the home, when we had no choice but to have kids or there was something wrong with us, not being able to buy something on credit w/o my husband and having jokes made by the male bank worker when my husband put me on HIS bank account. When I turned 21 someone shook my hand and said, "Happy Birthday! Your free white and 21. It's just to damn bad your a woman" and the men there laughed. Most of you complaining have absolutely no idea what your talking about. I reference this woman's very well informed post.

Yes - and there was a time when women couldn't vote.

Were we spoiled when we asked for more????

emmalouc93

Yes - and there was a time when women couldn't vote.

Were we spoiled when we asked for more????

No, but we are now.

That time has passed!

It's time to be grateful for what we HAVE achieved, which is quite a lot, not beg for an easy ride in every other aspect. We aren't victims, and we CAN do things for ourselves, so why should everyone else pick up the pieces? If all you 'feminists' truly did believe in feminism, you wouldn't need to campaign for all these things, you would just sort it for yourself, not expect everyone else to do it for you.

But the mere fact that women CHOOSE to have children should not prevent them from having equal opportunity to rise in status.

Herein lies the problem. You say you're not satisfied with less pay, yet you want to have your cake and eat it, too!! You have to choose: Earn a little money and have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off. You can't have everything!!! I reiterate ; spoiled brat syndrome. Men have to work extremely hard for the 'pay increase' that they supposedly get (really, they just work more hours) and they have to sacrifice family time FOR that. Women should expect the same treatment, not better treatment.

How about mammograms? Wellness check ups? Cervical check ups? Procedures that weren't - until recently - offered under the same costs in an insurance plan? Or that many of the nations providers for such services are currently under fire? (Planned Parenthood, for example.)

Since I am not American I cannot answer the specifics on this, and hopefully someone can. As for Planned Parenthood - As a 'feminist' you should be in control of your body, meaning the government has no say in it - fair enough. That also means taking care not to get pregnant if you don't want to, and don't expect the government to foot the bill for YOUR birth control or YOUR irresponsibility. I am talking purely financially here, because this is not turning into an abortion debate on my account.

That being said, a woman who goes to report sexual assault is often branded a liar. Or called into question because she's previously had sex. (I'm 32 years old. I've had lots of sex. LOOOTTSSS of sex. That doesn't mean I want to be assaulted.) One in every 3 women will be sexually assaulted, often more than once.

For that - as proved - you can blame other women that DO take the seriousness away and lie about these things. That isn't mens fault, or the governments fault, it is the fault of women that lie. Women need to take responsibility to be in charge of what they do, and when they LIE about something so bad, the consequence will fall on genuine women.

But I am called one. No woman should be. No man should be.

No one here called you a slut, and nothing referenced has said anything about anyone being a slut. The only people that get branded as sluts are people that openly look for attention regarding to their sexual lives. If you slept with a million men, your decision, but why feel the need to tell anyone else? It's meant to be personal. You can't expect the world to go easy on you just because you think it is ok, that's a very naive view. If feminism now means the power to sleep with a fifty, ten, or a hundred men, then our ancestors wasted a lot of time.


Anyway, I think I have made my point for today, and that is, most sane women don't want the government, men or anyone else to take care of and make excuses for the hard parts of their lives for them, we will do it ourselves. True feminism is not wanting everyone to pander to you and your ideals, and let you do whatever you want, and feminism also isn't an excuse to do ANYTHING you want, and lose all decorum. It often is used as one, and it is things like this that make me detest what 'feminism' now is. True feminists that fought for EQUAL rights that we HAVE today would be turning in their graves to think of what victims women want to be now.

newmanel

2. That is not discrimination, it is wholly choice. Women often choose children over being a CEO. A lot of companies these days have female quotas which they need to fill, which in my opinion is actually counteractive to feminism, because it is saying women can't make it on their own merit. This means a lot more staff are women, IF THEY CHOOSE SO. You have the choice to be a CEO tomorrow, the question is do you a) want it? and b) want to put the work in and c) pick it over a family?
'Feminists should admit that working part-time, or not working outside the home, is as valid a choice for women as being Marissa Mayer, the CEO of Yahoo, or Marissa Meyer, the novelist. A choice of more leisure over more paid work is not a social problem, just as a man who decides to retire early does not face social criticism.'

You made the thing about quotas up. This does not exist in the US. I'm assuming you are talking about the US with your little Mr. President shtick.

emmalouc93

You made the thing about quotas up. This does not exist in the US. I'm assuming you are talking about the US with your little Mr. President shtick.

If you like to re-read, you will see quotation marks, which means that 'shtick' was not mine.

Secondly ; I am not talking exclusively to America, I am talking about the world. Not everything is central to America, and there ARE places outside of America also. I simply quoted that piece in reply to the last poster. That being said, it is a proposed action for America, and mark my word, it WILL happen.

This doesn't take away from anything I have said.

newmanel

Herein lies the problem. You say you're not satisfied with less pay, yet you want to have your cake and eat it, too!! You have to choose: Earn a little money and have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off. You can't have everything!!! I reiterate ; spoiled brat syndrome. Men have to work extremely hard for the 'pay increase' that they supposedly get (really, they just work more hours) and they have to sacrifice family time FOR that. Women should expect the same treatment, not better treatment.

Haha, okay. Way to belittle working moms. You're the reason why we need feminism, creating a false choice between "a loving family" and "earn a lot of money/working your *kitten* off." Gotta love the moralizing that has at its heart the super-gross implication that women are supposed to be responsible entirely responsible for child-raising. Last I heard that was a responsibility for both the mom and the dad, so why do you think the moms are the only ones who are supposed to be making and accepting that sacrifice?

joselo2

what an interesting discussion, always wondered about this. i dont judge anyone for their size nd i HATE people judging me for mine, like thinking i am lazy, stupid, selfish or anything else just because i am obese. I am not these things. I am unhealthy though. lots of people claim 'health at every size' and if they r saying they are fit and well, then good for them. But I know myself, and this is just me, I have high blood pressure, terrible pains in my joints and back, get breathless really easy, chaffing, sleep apnoea and respiritory problems. And I have it on medical advice that this is all weight related. So i can only speak for myself.

I get a lot of hate off people, shouting at me even in the streets for my weight. Part of me wants to stamp that out because they should be respectful and kind. But part of me wants to address it by losing weight. Because I HATE it, can't take it, and this is one way to stop it.

emmalouc93

Herein lies the problem. You say you're not satisfied with less pay, yet you want to have your cake and eat it, too!! You have to choose: Earn a little money and have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off. You can't have everything!!! I reiterate ; spoiled brat syndrome. Men have to work extremely hard for the 'pay increase' that they supposedly get (really, they just work more hours) and they have to sacrifice family time FOR that. Women should expect the same treatment, not better treatment.

Haha, okay. Way to belittle working moms. You're the reason why we need feminism, creating a false choice between "a loving family" and "earn a lot of money/working your *kitten* off." Gotta love the moralizing that has at its heart the super-gross implication that women are supposed to be responsible entirely responsible for child-raising. Last I heard that was a responsibility for both the mom and the dad, so why do you think the moms are the only ones who are supposed to be making and accepting that sacrifice?

Once again, my words were "Earn less money AND have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off." .

Right there in black and white, so twisting words will not work too well when other people can see what I wrote.

Dads cannot work full time and spend ALL their time with their kids unless they work part time, so why should mothers get to work full time AND spend all their time with their children? It is impossible, so why should (as the poster I was replying to said) women have both when men can't have both either? You can't have your cake and eat it, please read properly before you reply next time.

newmanel

Herein lies the problem. You say you're not satisfied with less pay, yet you want to have your cake and eat it, too!! You have to choose: Earn a little money and have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off. You can't have everything!!! I reiterate ; spoiled brat syndrome. Men have to work extremely hard for the 'pay increase' that they supposedly get (really, they just work more hours) and they have to sacrifice family time FOR that. Women should expect the same treatment, not better treatment.

Haha, okay. Way to belittle working moms. You're the reason why we need feminism, creating a false choice between "a loving family" and "earn a lot of money/working your *kitten* off." Gotta love the moralizing that has at its heart the super-gross implication that women are supposed to be responsible entirely responsible for child-raising. Last I heard that was a responsibility for both the mom and the dad, so why do you think the moms are the only ones who are supposed to be making and accepting that sacrifice?

Once again, my words were "Earn less money AND have a loving family, or earn a lot of money and not have time to have a family because you work your *kitten* off." .

Uh, just because you capitalize the AND doesn't mean there isn't a big OR in your sentence. It's the OR that makes it a choice. And I chose one from from the left side of the OR and one thing from the right. Try again, dear.

emmalouc93

Uh, just because you capitalize the AND doesn't mean there isn't a big OR in your sentence. It's the OR that makes it a choice. And I chose one from from the left side of the OR and one thing from the right. Try again, dear.

You honestly don't understand that you can't work 50+ hours a week (which is what is necessary to be a CEO, and then some) , and spend the same amount of time with your family? It is either less money and more family time, or more money and less family time.

It isn't rocket science.

I'm not saying men shouldn't raise children, I'm saying the men that DO have high flying careers do not raise their children. Why should it be different for women?

The post I am replying to is right there, you only have to read it to realise what I am referring to.

joselo2

I have not read all of this but FOR ANYONE HAVING A GO AT WORKING MOTHERS-
My mother worked long and hard when I was growing up. She did it to support us and also because she wanted to do things outside the home. She is not only a wonderful mother but a wonderful WOMAN and I admire her so much, for everything she does, and I admire how hard she worked to raise 7 children while also working. We are a VERY loving family, she was very present in all of my childhood, I never felt I missed out becuase she worked. She was in fact a real role model to us. I am not having a go at stay at home mothers, I am not commenting on them. I am commenting on working mothers... they can be just as good mothers as anyone other kind, sometimes better.

My mother earnt money, but this did not compromise her role a mother. She is wonderful. I totally disagree with anyone saying you cant have a loving family if you work. Motherhood is full time whether you work or not, so she actually had 2 jobs. As I say, love her so much.