Coronavirus prep
Replies
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https://youtu.be/NmfLkEuyWdo
This is a doctor out of the UK that I have listened to some over the last nine months. He goes into why we in the USA are going to have a hard Jan-Feb case load because of our holiday travel plans plus he talks about the South Africa Covid-19 mutations.4 -
missysippy930 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »greyhoundwalker wrote: »Provoked by something earlier in the thread I won't quote, I'm thinking about displacement of risk.
What do I mean? Choices that make me safer, but arguably put someone else at the risk I'm avoiding.
The classic example is grocery delivery: It's contactless on my end, low worry (depending on how I feel about things other people have touched recently), probably reduces my risk, has a cost but it's not enough to be a big deal for me (fortunately comfortable but not wealthy).
When I use that service, *someone* is wandering through the store, taking the risk I'm avoiding, whether it's the person who delivers, or another contractor/employee.
I can't speak for where others live, but here the people doing those jobs are not well paid, and often don't have employer-provided health care. Many are fairly young, perhaps have young families depending on their continuing health and continuing paycheck. (My cost helps with their paycheck, but risks their health.) Could they choose other jobs? Maybe. Realistically? Not all of them.
I understand why people use these services. As a social good, it's rational/responsible to shift risk from more vulnerable people (older, immune compromised, etc.) to less vulnerable. Of course any individual can make his/her own free choices about risk and cost, contingent on that person's own circumstances. I'm not second-guessing others' choices here.
Given all of the above, though, I'd personally find it tough to claim that using grocery delivery is some kind of moral high ground, an absolute good, to protect me or my family/contacts, in some condition-free way. It's risking someone else's health and contacts, to benefit mine, because I have enough money to make that choice.
P.S. To be clear, I'm still going to grocery stores myself, just keeping it very rare, like every 3-4 weeks, despite being old and having at least one comorbidity potential (early COPD). This is not my lowest-risk grocery option, clearly. The ethics of it are probably not the main driver.
I think this would make a very good debate topic.
My view leans more towards the fewer people wandering around the store the better for everyone, including the workers. I haven't been inside a store since March to protect myself and my parents. A side benefit is that I'm not an additional source of contaminants for the employees and shoppers.
I sometimes use the curbside delivery my local supermarkets are offering. It's the store employees who would be in the store anyway doing the shopping, so I don't see it as transferring risk, and is one less vector entering the store.
I think if a young healthy person is shopping for an older person or someone with a comorbidity risk factor, that would be good risk transference, because you are transferring the risk to someone much less likely to get sick or die. I think a parent with children who would need to drag multiple people thru the store with them would also be a positive for delivery, as it reduces people in the store. But I can see the issue with one low-risk person using an independent delivery service, because it's just a one-to-one tradeoff of similar risk; the only benefit would be if that one person is going into the store multiple times rather than multiple people, it's theoretically fewer vectors in the store. I bet I could totally overthink this though
UK here, two of my sons work in retail, and both would prefer if customers were only allowed to have collections or deliveries. Then they would only have to mix with their colleagues who would respect each other’s space unlike some customers. It’s probably not financially viable for the companies they work for but it would make their jobs easier and safer.
I agree that this would be the safest. This would presume the workers were trained and practicing safety protocols. (I have a friend who works in non-grocery retail and most likely caught COVID from a coworker who turned up positive and had been only wearing a mask reluctantly, and then only when in the part of the store where customers could see her.)
But there are numerous drawbacks to delivery. As several people have mentioned and I have experienced myself, there can be problems with quality, expiration dates, and substitutions, etc.
I've checked out all of the delivery services near me. None are free (and I would not expect them to be.) I am fine with Whole Foods delivery costing a tip plus the Amazon Prime membership, as I have this for other things. The other delivery services inflate store prices and/or charge a delivery fee and/or you need a paid membership.
I can empathize with people unwilling or unable to pay these extra fees.
I would be more than happy with pickup (delivery not an option, rural, 12 miles from nearest grocery store) but, mainly for reasons you have stated, expiration dates, quality of meat and produce, I will continue to do my own shopping. I don’t know about other places, but here, grocery prices have gone up during covid. An example for items I buy weekly. Three pack of romaine lettuce was $2.99, now $5.99. Buddig meats were.59 cents. On sale you could get them for 5 for $2.00. Now .99 cents, and never on sale. If I have to pay more for groceries, and I am, I want the best quality available. I’ve always checked expiration dates, and examined produce and fresh meat before putting in my cart. Even pre-covid. I don’t want items that are near or even past expiration dates. The solution for me is doing my own shopping. A 25 mile round trip isn’t feasible for exchanging items because of these issues, it’s just the way it is🤷🏻♀️
I didn't notice price increases, but I did notice lack of sales for items for which I am very price sensitive, and wait for sales to stock up and freeze.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »missysippy930 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »greyhoundwalker wrote: »Provoked by something earlier in the thread I won't quote, I'm thinking about displacement of risk.
What do I mean? Choices that make me safer, but arguably put someone else at the risk I'm avoiding.
The classic example is grocery delivery: It's contactless on my end, low worry (depending on how I feel about things other people have touched recently), probably reduces my risk, has a cost but it's not enough to be a big deal for me (fortunately comfortable but not wealthy).
When I use that service, *someone* is wandering through the store, taking the risk I'm avoiding, whether it's the person who delivers, or another contractor/employee.
I can't speak for where others live, but here the people doing those jobs are not well paid, and often don't have employer-provided health care. Many are fairly young, perhaps have young families depending on their continuing health and continuing paycheck. (My cost helps with their paycheck, but risks their health.) Could they choose other jobs? Maybe. Realistically? Not all of them.
I understand why people use these services. As a social good, it's rational/responsible to shift risk from more vulnerable people (older, immune compromised, etc.) to less vulnerable. Of course any individual can make his/her own free choices about risk and cost, contingent on that person's own circumstances. I'm not second-guessing others' choices here.
Given all of the above, though, I'd personally find it tough to claim that using grocery delivery is some kind of moral high ground, an absolute good, to protect me or my family/contacts, in some condition-free way. It's risking someone else's health and contacts, to benefit mine, because I have enough money to make that choice.
P.S. To be clear, I'm still going to grocery stores myself, just keeping it very rare, like every 3-4 weeks, despite being old and having at least one comorbidity potential (early COPD). This is not my lowest-risk grocery option, clearly. The ethics of it are probably not the main driver.
I think this would make a very good debate topic.
My view leans more towards the fewer people wandering around the store the better for everyone, including the workers. I haven't been inside a store since March to protect myself and my parents. A side benefit is that I'm not an additional source of contaminants for the employees and shoppers.
I sometimes use the curbside delivery my local supermarkets are offering. It's the store employees who would be in the store anyway doing the shopping, so I don't see it as transferring risk, and is one less vector entering the store.
I think if a young healthy person is shopping for an older person or someone with a comorbidity risk factor, that would be good risk transference, because you are transferring the risk to someone much less likely to get sick or die. I think a parent with children who would need to drag multiple people thru the store with them would also be a positive for delivery, as it reduces people in the store. But I can see the issue with one low-risk person using an independent delivery service, because it's just a one-to-one tradeoff of similar risk; the only benefit would be if that one person is going into the store multiple times rather than multiple people, it's theoretically fewer vectors in the store. I bet I could totally overthink this though
UK here, two of my sons work in retail, and both would prefer if customers were only allowed to have collections or deliveries. Then they would only have to mix with their colleagues who would respect each other’s space unlike some customers. It’s probably not financially viable for the companies they work for but it would make their jobs easier and safer.
I agree that this would be the safest. This would presume the workers were trained and practicing safety protocols. (I have a friend who works in non-grocery retail and most likely caught COVID from a coworker who turned up positive and had been only wearing a mask reluctantly, and then only when in the part of the store where customers could see her.)
But there are numerous drawbacks to delivery. As several people have mentioned and I have experienced myself, there can be problems with quality, expiration dates, and substitutions, etc.
I've checked out all of the delivery services near me. None are free (and I would not expect them to be.) I am fine with Whole Foods delivery costing a tip plus the Amazon Prime membership, as I have this for other things. The other delivery services inflate store prices and/or charge a delivery fee and/or you need a paid membership.
I can empathize with people unwilling or unable to pay these extra fees.
I would be more than happy with pickup (delivery not an option, rural, 12 miles from nearest grocery store) but, mainly for reasons you have stated, expiration dates, quality of meat and produce, I will continue to do my own shopping. I don’t know about other places, but here, grocery prices have gone up during covid. An example for items I buy weekly. Three pack of romaine lettuce was $2.99, now $5.99. Buddig meats were.59 cents. On sale you could get them for 5 for $2.00. Now .99 cents, and never on sale. If I have to pay more for groceries, and I am, I want the best quality available. I’ve always checked expiration dates, and examined produce and fresh meat before putting in my cart. Even pre-covid. I don’t want items that are near or even past expiration dates. The solution for me is doing my own shopping. A 25 mile round trip isn’t feasible for exchanging items because of these issues, it’s just the way it is🤷🏻♀️
I didn't notice price increases, but I did notice lack of sales for items for which I am very price sensitive, and wait for sales to stock up and freeze.
If you request a refund they will just refund you without making you return. Especially if you use amazon delivery services. If there is any bad product or any sub you don't like, just request replacement and they let you keep it for full refund. There is usually always a few things every order I get refunded for. Not saying everyone should be doing delivery (I only do occasionally) but thought I’d let the people who are using them know you can get refunds so easily.1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I tried to have Amazon Fresh delivered for Christmas dinner last week and my order was canceled with no explanation. So I winded up having to go outside shopping since all the delivery windows were filled and the items I wanted became out of stock.
So there are many reasons why someone can't utilize a grocery delivery service. 🤷♀️
My pharmacy sent out an email asking us to use mail-order service for prescription refills, because ya know, Covid. I won't be doing that again. It was supposed to take 3-5 business days. It never came. I blamed it on slow mail service, but it wasn't the mail. It never made it to the mail. I called in a couple of times to check on the status and each time a robot voice told me it was still processing and then hung up on me.
I ordered early, so I had a little time to spare, but as the days went on I started to plot out how long I could go without while I waited. I ran out at the weekend, went the pharmacy was closed. After a couple of days without my asthma meds, my lungs started seizing up, and I went in person when they opened on Monday. At the counter they told me the mail order system was overloaded and my prescription was stuck in the system somewhere. It was never filled and probably never would be.
Well, that's fine. If there's a problem with my order, I'm OK with it. I'm not even mad. I get that we've got a pandemic going on and things are challenging. Just tell me so I can go get it in person, tho. Don't leave me wondering. Don't leave me hanging for weeks, waiting for medication that isn't coming.
The in-person pharmacy was great, they had my meds ready in less than 5 minutes. I thought I was doing the right thing by staying away - especially as a person with asthma, but I need my meds or my lungs have a fit, so I'll be going in person from now on. They just started curbside pickup at no charge, so maybe I'll use that.16 -
The pharmacies around here all have drive through windows for pickup of prescriptions and they will even let you add common items like ibuprofen, Nyquil, etc.3
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LazyBlondeChef wrote: »The pharmacies around here all have drive through windows for pickup of prescriptions and they will even let you add common items like ibuprofen, Nyquil, etc.
I tried one. They were sending the card reader out in the drawer, and people in cars were picking it out of the drawer, holding it bare-handed near unmasked faces to finish the transactions. 😬 Uh-uh, no thanks.
I feel safer going inside: The place is always fairly empty during daytime, and even when a line it's short, well distanced and people are wearing masks. 🤷♀️5 -
I haven't been to a for-people pharmacy, but the pharmacy that used to handle my cat's prescription had a system where you rang and then they'd bring it out to you (no one was allowed to come inside -- they did people prescriptions too, handled the same way). Clearly with the big places like Walgreens and CVS you can come in, and I don't think there's an alternative (I bought wrapping paper at my local Walgreens, as well as some candy for Halloween back in Oct, and it was pretty comfortable to shop in for that).
Unfortunately for me the pharmacy that my vet now works with is in WI, so either a long drive for me or mail-order only, but so far they've been pretty good.4 -
I haven't been to a for-people pharmacy, but the pharmacy that used to handle my cat's prescription had a system where you rang and then they'd bring it out to you (no one was allowed to come inside -- they did people prescriptions too, handled the same way). Clearly with the big places like Walgreens and CVS you can come in, and I don't think there's an alternative (I bought wrapping paper at my local Walgreens, as well as some candy for Halloween back in Oct, and it was pretty comfortable to shop in for that).
Unfortunately for me the pharmacy that my vet now works with is in WI, so either a long drive for me or mail-order only, but so far they've been pretty good.
When picking up a prescription for my cat from my vet, the current protocol is to call and pay over the phone when you park, and they leave it outside the door on the table. Similarly, for vet appointments, I call upon arrival and give them the space number. They come out and pick up the animal, and the vet calls as you wait in your car to discuss anything and obtain approval for any treatment. The only physical interaction is outside when they pick/drop off the pet, and we never got within 6' of each other and were both masked (dropped the carrier off at the curb and then stood back).
I've done all grocery shopping in store since the pandemic began. Since I eat a LOT of fresh produce, I want to pick out my own items. In my area, I've found it comfortable and safe for the most part. I try to go when it's less crowded, and mask wearing, at least at the grocery stores and times I visit, is basically at 100%.8 -
Yeah, that's similar to vet appts here. You park and call, they call back, get info, and then call again and say come to the door and drop off the pet (the emergency vet comes to collect the pet at a numbered space). When the appt is finished they call to give you info and then the payment person calls to give you the cost and get the payment and to say to come to the door (at the emergency vet they call again to tell you they are bringing the pet out and then do).
I've mostly done grocery delivery since it's easy where I live, I think the controls at my local grocery (which I shopped at only 25% of the time anyway, pre covid) are mediocre, and I've found WF through Amazon here to be pretty reliable and to choose good produce (I used it sometimes pre covid and found it an easier way to shop deals than just going when I felt like it and buying what caught my eye, which is what I did). I supplement with fish and farmers' market delivery (which is great for seasonal produce and non fish meat and eggs/dairy). I've done delivery from Target happily too, and do a lot of curb-side pickup (sometimes by car, sometimes when walking from local stores), but have also gone into stores and see no reason to say that going to stores or using delivery is somehow judge-worthy. (I also am in a big city, so don't assume the options open to me are open to all.)
I disagreed with anyone saying going to a store was somehow irresponsible, no matter what, but also strongly disagree with any claim that it's somehow immoral (or careless of others) to use delivery.4 -
Both my husband’s prescriptions and our dog’s prescriptions are call when you arrive, pay when you call, and they bring it out to your car with the prescription and receipt. No one is allowed inside the facilities. When our dog has an appointment, you call when you arrive. The vet tech comes out and gets him. After the vet sees him, the tech calls and gets payment then brings him out to the car. Then the vet comes out and talks to us. Our dogs had a couple of issues this year and has been to the vet 3 times during covid.3
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Re: grocery delivery and pickup. We have been shopping for both us and my mom, once a week, which makes for a fairly large load. Every time we put in an order and went to pick it up there would be a long list of stuff they “couldn’t find,” and my husband would have to go in and shop anyway. Almost always the stuff is right there in the store. One time they didn’t get us any kind of meat, but everything on our list was there without even needing to use substitutions. That sort of thing. And there are certain things you aren’t allowed to order such as toilet paper - still have to go in for it. It’s been a frustrating experience, and shopping for just the things they missed takes usually almost an hour. If we had to do the whole load it would take three times as long.
So, recently we put in an order for delivery, not pickup. We had been avoiding this because when you get delivery they don’t let you pick which store you want to shop at, and our nearest Kroger is cordially known to the workers as “the W.I.C. store.” The food is shipped there from other locations when it’s about to go out of date, the produce is moldy, the steaks are thin, there’s no butcher, and they don’t even carry anything like high end cheeses or fish other than catfish. The more distant store, the one we pick up at, is like a paradise in comparison. But TN is the worst place in the nation for Covid right now and my husband is getting a little freaked out about shopping in person, so we put in a delivery order.
Imagine my surprise when a very nice girl texted me FROM THE FANCY STORE and explained that she is not a Kroger employee and doesn’t go to the WIC store because the food is bad, and was there anything I wanted to request that wasn’t available to order online? Um, yes please! She was intelligent and we texted back and forth about substitutions and she picked out my groceries the way I would if I were there in person. We have done this three times now and it’s been great every time.
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LazyBlondeChef wrote: »The pharmacies around here all have drive through windows for pickup of prescriptions and they will even let you add common items like ibuprofen, Nyquil, etc.
I tried one. They were sending the card reader out in the drawer, and people in cars were picking it out of the drawer, holding it bare-handed near unmasked faces to finish the transactions. 😬 Uh-uh, no thanks.
I feel safer going inside: The place is always fairly empty during daytime, and even when a line it's short, well distanced and people are wearing masks. 🤷♀️
The Walgreens in our area have express pay. Set it up, go through the drive throu tell them express pay and it charges your account. Don't touch anything other than your prescription.4 -
My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......3 -
My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.13 -
rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
@rheddmobile Interesting stats. Thank you.
@Theoldguy1 Like you, I predominately do self checkout, and was doing that pre-COVID. In fact, during the period where we had to get into a single cue to checkout. Staff would recognize me, even with a mask, and wave me up from the line to use the self checkout (amazing how many people do not use it).1 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
@rheddmobile Interesting stats. Thank you.
@Theoldguy1 Like you, I predominately do self checkout, and was doing that pre-COVID. In fact, during the period where we had to get into a single cue to checkout. Staff would recognize me, even with a mask, and wave me up from the line to use the self checkout (amazing how many people do not use it).
I hate self checkout.11 -
Minnesota has an app, COVIDaware Minnesota, that supposedly notifies you if you’ve been in contact with someone that has covid. I’m assuming other states have it as well. I’ve had it on my phone since around Thanksgiving. I’m wondering if anyone has actually been notified about exposure through this app. It’s my understanding that it senses prolonged contact, 15 minutes or longer.0
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missysippy930 wrote: »Minnesota has an app, COVIDaware Minnesota, that supposedly notifies you if you’ve been in contact with someone that has covid. I’m assuming other states have it as well. I’ve had it on my phone since around Thanksgiving. I’m wondering if anyone has actually been notified about exposure through this app. It’s my understanding that it senses prolonged contact, 15 minutes or longer.
I think that's great. Michigan has one, too. I heard a report (NPR station) a couple of weeks back saying that between gradual adoption rates for the app, and a backlog in contact tracing, there were only a few hundred positive cases reported to the app for the whole 10M people state (don't remember the exact number, think it was under 500).
I think a lot of people imagine, because they don't understand the technology, that the apps report all your movements to the government or something. Just not true. The more people who start using the apps, the more useful they'll be.5 -
missysippy930 wrote: »Both my husband’s prescriptions and our dog’s prescriptions are call when you arrive, pay when you call, and they bring it out to your car with the prescription and receipt. No one is allowed inside the facilities. When our dog has an appointment, you call when you arrive. The vet tech comes out and gets him. After the vet sees him, the tech calls and gets payment then brings him out to the car. Then the vet comes out and talks to us. Our dogs had a couple of issues this year and has been to the vet 3 times during covid.
When my husky had cancer we saved thousands of dollars by getting his prescriptions filled anywhere but at the vet. We'd ask the vet for the Rx and get it filled elsewhere. We ended up mostly using an independent pharmacy attached to a hospital and a Canadian pharmacy. I started doing this after I found out they wanted to charge us $75 for a $4 antibiotic >.<9 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »I tried to have Amazon Fresh delivered for Christmas dinner last week and my order was canceled with no explanation. So I winded up having to go outside shopping since all the delivery windows were filled and the items I wanted became out of stock.
So there are many reasons why someone can't utilize a grocery delivery service. 🤷♀️
My pharmacy sent out an email asking us to use mail-order service for prescription refills, because ya know, Covid. I won't be doing that again. It was supposed to take 3-5 business days. It never came. I blamed it on slow mail service, but it wasn't the mail. It never made it to the mail. I called in a couple of times to check on the status and each time a robot voice told me it was still processing and then hung up on me.
I ordered early, so I had a little time to spare, but as the days went on I started to plot out how long I could go without while I waited. I ran out at the weekend, went the pharmacy was closed. After a couple of days without my asthma meds, my lungs started seizing up, and I went in person when they opened on Monday. At the counter they told me the mail order system was overloaded and my prescription was stuck in the system somewhere. It was never filled and probably never would be.
Well, that's fine. If there's a problem with my order, I'm OK with it. I'm not even mad. I get that we've got a pandemic going on and things are challenging. Just tell me so I can go get it in person, tho. Don't leave me wondering. Don't leave me hanging for weeks, waiting for medication that isn't coming.
The in-person pharmacy was great, they had my meds ready in less than 5 minutes. I thought I was doing the right thing by staying away - especially as a person with asthma, but I need my meds or my lungs have a fit, so I'll be going in person from now on. They just started curbside pickup at no charge, so maybe I'll use that.
I get my meds through the VA and have been receiving them through the mail with no problems for years. However, this month two got lost and one had other issues. I had tracking and was able to see that USPS had never received the two. I messaged the pharmacist and was overnighted the missing two.
I also have a complaint in to USPS about getting 4 "not accessible" messages after the snow storm when in fact our doors, driveway, and sidewalk had been clear since the morning after the storm. No response yet.7 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
Interesting. The places I've been going here do still sanitize carts.
I have a little zipper pounch with the necessary cards in it, plus one of those little flip-top hand sanitizer bottles with a clip on it; I fasten both of them to a carabiner and hang it on my jeans' belt loop for shopping trips.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
Another option would be not touching your face with your gloved hands... I personally don’t find this hard. I don’t touch my face when I’m in public anyway, because as someone immunocompromised I have been avoiding germs for a while now. But when I enter a new location, I put on gloves, I go there, shop, touch things, whatever, then properly remove the gloves (they end up inside out) and dispose of them when I return to my car. New gloves before going back out. Gloves do work when used properly, that’s why medical professionals use them. It’s not like doctors and nurses are some special kind of gifted and all other people are just morons who can’t learn to use gloves!12 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »I tried to have Amazon Fresh delivered for Christmas dinner last week and my order was canceled with no explanation. So I winded up having to go outside shopping since all the delivery windows were filled and the items I wanted became out of stock.
So there are many reasons why someone can't utilize a grocery delivery service. 🤷♀️
My pharmacy sent out an email asking us to use mail-order service for prescription refills, because ya know, Covid. I won't be doing that again. It was supposed to take 3-5 business days. It never came. I blamed it on slow mail service, but it wasn't the mail. It never made it to the mail. I called in a couple of times to check on the status and each time a robot voice told me it was still processing and then hung up on me.
I ordered early, so I had a little time to spare, but as the days went on I started to plot out how long I could go without while I waited. I ran out at the weekend, went the pharmacy was closed. After a couple of days without my asthma meds, my lungs started seizing up, and I went in person when they opened on Monday. At the counter they told me the mail order system was overloaded and my prescription was stuck in the system somewhere. It was never filled and probably never would be.
Well, that's fine. If there's a problem with my order, I'm OK with it. I'm not even mad. I get that we've got a pandemic going on and things are challenging. Just tell me so I can go get it in person, tho. Don't leave me wondering. Don't leave me hanging for weeks, waiting for medication that isn't coming.
The in-person pharmacy was great, they had my meds ready in less than 5 minutes. I thought I was doing the right thing by staying away - especially as a person with asthma, but I need my meds or my lungs have a fit, so I'll be going in person from now on. They just started curbside pickup at no charge, so maybe I'll use that.
I get my meds through the VA and have been receiving them through the mail with no problems for years. However, this month two got lost and one had other issues. I had tracking and was able to see that USPS had never received the two. I messaged the pharmacist and was overnighted the missing two.
I also have a complaint in to USPS about getting 4 "not accessible" messages after the snow storm when in fact our doors, driveway, and sidewalk had been clear since the morning after the storm. No response yet.
USPS is a mess right now. I’m kind of peeved at them since they marked a package delivered when it was not delivered, so I can’t get a refund for it being lost. I know for an absolute fact it wasn’t delivered because another package was delivered at the same time and I was right there at the door waiting when the mail carrier came. This isn’t the first time our mail carrier has lied... I would get her fired if I could. She is just really bad, I was so thankful when Amazon stopped using USPS for last mile delivery because it meant it was just gambling to order anything.7 -
rheddmobile wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
Another option would be not touching your face with your gloved hands... I personally don’t find this hard. I don’t touch my face when I’m in public anyway, because as someone immunocompromised I have been avoiding germs for a while now. But when I enter a new location, I put on gloves, I go there, shop, touch things, whatever, then properly remove the gloves (they end up inside out) and dispose of them when I return to my car. New gloves before going back out. Gloves do work when used properly, that’s why medical professionals use them. It’s not like doctors and nurses are some special kind of gifted and all other people are just morons who can’t learn to use gloves!
Yes. I found that gloves help me be more conscious not to touch my face, too, so I wore them a good bit at first. Now, I usually just drench hands with sanitizer at key moments, avoid the face-touching by habit at this point.
An acquaintance who is an EMT was quite insistent that I shouldn't wear gloves, because regular civilians like me always did it wrong and made things worse. Sure, sweetie. (I've seen examples of her insight and reasoning in other scenarios. I recognize and appreciate the difficulty of what she does for a living, especially in these times, but she sometimes makes me eye-roll.)
(Not glove-hoarding, BTW. My local hospital system was taking donations of unopened boxes of gloves at first, so I donated the unopened one of the big 2-pack I'd recently bought at Costco for crafts use, but kept the open one. Not using them often any more, but have them ready, including a small bag of them in the car, just in case. Suspect using gloves to avoid getting paint on my face/clothes is good practice for not spreading viruses to my face/clothes, though not a perfect analog.)
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rheddmobile wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
Another option would be not touching your face with your gloved hands... I personally don’t find this hard. I don’t touch my face when I’m in public anyway, because as someone immunocompromised I have been avoiding germs for a while now. But when I enter a new location, I put on gloves, I go there, shop, touch things, whatever, then properly remove the gloves (they end up inside out) and dispose of them when I return to my car. New gloves before going back out. Gloves do work when used properly, that’s why medical professionals use them. It’s not like doctors and nurses are some special kind of gifted and all other people are just morons who can’t learn to use gloves!
Sounds like you understand how to use gloves.
I cannot tell you how many people I have seen do not understand how they need to be used in order to actually protect a person. 3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
Interesting. The places I've been going here do still sanitize carts.
I have a little zipper pounch with the necessary cards in it, plus one of those little flip-top hand sanitizer bottles with a clip on it; I fasten both of them to a carabiner and hang it on my jeans' belt loop for shopping trips.
When we were in Florida, I saw active cart sanitizing going on at the local Publix (staff stand outside with bucket of bleach water and rags). In contrast, if my local grocery store then I do not see it happening. I like you are idea of the carabiner sanitizer bottle. I must have something like that somewhere in my house. I need to look around.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »My "risky" behavior is that I do go into stores and do my own shopping. Am I shopping like pre-COVID (which might have included "window shopping" behavior in stores, or even going to the grocery store more than once a day)? No. I have chatted with my 29 yr old daughter about this and she considers my actions of going into a grocery store risky and I am typically blocked from visiting for at least a week after. My logic on the safety is that I actually know/recognize the majority of staff in the grocery store, from Pre-covid, and they are all still there. Those workers that I have chatted with on this topic, have been working in the store throughout the pandemic and have never been sick (or so they believe). And please understand that these conversations include people that do have what qualifies as visible preexisting conditions (sex, age, weight). My thoughts are that if my grocery store were that dangerous, these individuals would have all had COVID at least once by now.
As for delivery and store pickup, like @rheddmobile, in May I tried a Peapod delivery (items missing), quickly added an afternoon whole foods pickup (got items but not what I would have chosen), tried for Peapod pickup the next day for remaining missing items (again missing), got disgusted and went into the store from the parking lot. There on the shelves were the "missing items" as well as items I regularly purchase at that store but were not offered online. I filled another whole cart. It was at that point that I began doing the in person shopping for my parents, daughter's family, as well as myself for the next two months. Eventually, daughter went back to her own way, and parents learned how to online shop on their own and we happy with what they received. While I do shop in store, I do limit the frequency that I shop, and I chose best days/time of day for least number of customers. I do not go into the store if there is a line waiting to go in, since that means the store is already at max capacity, and I come back another time. Heading into xmas, I did have to do store pickup for groceries during the week before, but I preemptively shopped the week before for the majority of items. Store pickup went fine for the limited list, but of course two hours after pickup I remember that one or two items I forgot to order and there is a $35 order minimum......
I believe quickly shopping while all people are masked, in a large building with lots of airflow, is probably moderately safe. However I would caution you not to assume your workers are fine. A study (can’t remember where? Boston?) which tested all grocery store workers found that 20% had Covid without knowing it and the largest risk factor was not whether the worker was cautious but whether they had a customer-facing job. You work with customers, you get sick, no matter how careful.
Yeah I don't consider grocery shopping in a large Walmart or similar especially risky. I almost always use self check anytime even before Covid so have limited contact with employees.
I haven't used self check since Covid because I noticed that no one was cleaning them between customers and there is a lot of screen-touching required at each transaction. At least the debit machine (and other areas) gets wiped down by the cashier at a regular checkout and I'm using tap with my card anyway so there's no common surface touching at all. I think almost all checkouts here have cashiers behind plexiglass now.
I don't use the self checkout because it is any safer from a sanitation point of view. I use it because I am fast and can check myself out faster, unless I have a full basket. As for it being dirty, @ythannah you are right that they do not sanitize between guests but they no longer sanitize the shopping carts anymore either. So once I am inside the store, it is up to me to protect myself. Working method is single credit card in my pant pocket for easy access and sanitizing wipes/gel/spray for my hands. All and all, I think I am in better shape than the person wearing gloves inside the store to make themselves "safer" but they continually touch their face and mask with their gloved hands. At least I am not fooling myself. I believe my actions have better logic to them.
I see. Carts and baskets are still sanitized here. And I find the self checkout a lot slower because I have to answer a ton of questions on the screen and there's quite a lengthy pause before you get to the next screen -- all of which is done verbally with a cashier. Produce is a PITA, and you can't use coupons without calling for an assistant. Plus I'm not as adept at finding the bar codes for scanning as a cashier is!6
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