Coronavirus prep

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  • ahoy_m8
    ahoy_m8 Posts: 3,053 Member
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    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.

    For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?

    There is a Trader Joe's close to my house. I used to go maybe once a month, but now on a more regular basis. If you are able, I'd suggest going in off-peak hours. Mine has over-60 hours from 8:00-9:00 and then opens for everyone at 9:00. I get there right at 9:00 and have not ever had to wait outside because of the capacity limit. Weekdays are much better than weekends if you can do it.

    It is a small store with narrow aisles, so social distancing can be challenging sometimes, but my store is very strict on their mask policy. They have an employee at the door disinfecting carts and checking for masks.

    For checkout, they have another employee directing traffic to the checkout lanes. They take your cart, and you have to stand 6 feet away from the cashier until everything is bagged and it's time to pay. They won't use reusable bags, you have to take the paper ones.

    That's how it is at mine...I'm not sure if these policies are nationwide or just in my area (Chicago).

    Same in Dallas.
  • gradchica27
    gradchica27 Posts: 777 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.

    For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?

    I haven’t been to our TJs since Covid—whenever I drive by there is a long line outside. In the “feels like 108” temps and sun, it’s not worth the wait for me. I drive across the street to Whole Foods if I need a specialty item—it’s usually near empty and everyone is masked and trying to follow one way aisle signs.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    If you look at that Johns Hopkins link I posted above, you'll see that our rate of death per case is 3.9% (edit - in the U.S.) and Germany's is 4.5%, so again - not sure what the point was there. Sweden is at 7.3%, UK at 15.4%.

    Death per cases is not a reliable stat, because many or most with coronavirus aren't being tested. That's why the best comparison is death per millions.

    In addition, deaths per cases is not a reliable stat because our incidence of new cases is rising so fast. The majority of our cases are not yet resolved. You cannot treat all those unresolved cases as cases that did not result in death. Many of them will still result in deaths (based on current figures on the Johns Hopkins site, as many as 11% of those unresolved cases in the U.S. will end in death -- and if you consider that rising cases means greater strain on the health care system and potentially poorer care and triaging, that rate could rise).

    Yeah, totally agree, which is why I pointed out that our 422/million is lower than Italy and Spain, but their cases are largely resolved and ours are still rising. Specifically, part of the US (the NE) had quite high peaks and are on the other side. Others flattened the curves much more, but are in a holding pattern where we still are getting far too many new cases and it could easily rise (I'd put Cook County, IL, parts of MI, probably other parts of the industrial midwest, etc. in this category). And many have not yet peaked -- all the states growing now.

    The deaths per million are more relevant for the areas that have peaked and are basically on the other side -- many European countries (not the UK), likely (if they avoid a second wave) the NE US, or at least those states that got hit heavily already, and then the other countries that seem to have it under control.
    I agree that deaths per millions is probably the best comparison between countries, but if you want to get some sense of the percentage of covid cases in a particular country are ending in death, you would do better to look at [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries]. Admittedly, that may be a little high, as it appears on average, from the (largely anecdotal) information I've seen, that average time to recovery is probably somewhat longer than average time to death. But it's going to be far closer to the truth than using a denominator in which two-thirds* of the cases have not yet resolved in either death or recovery

    I'm operating on the understanding that many of the recovered cases were not caught and that there's likely not a huge difference in the percentage who get it who die, if we knew how many really had it (that latter could be false, but it's simply impossible to compare total number of cases or total recovered, especially when looking at places hit early on, when testing could not keep up).
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.

    For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?

    I haven't been because when I tried the line was crazy long, but from people here I've heard they have been doing a great job enforcing social distancing.
  • lemurcat2
    lemurcat2 Posts: 7,885 Member
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    paperpudding wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    I could disagree point by point but not with an attorney because I don't have that kind of time.

    Let's just say I disagree on most points you just made lemur, because all of them assume we are getting all the numbers - which we aren't - especially from countries that have socialist or communist governments.

    What's the basis for thinking we aren't getting the numbers from Germany or most other EU countries or Australia? Because that's what I have been focusing on.
    There isn't one country (such as Germany) who miraculously just isn't seeing any deaths (or such low deaths like China and Germany) unless there is a lot of deception going on or there is some genetic trait only prevalent in that population - which could turn out to be true, but right now is a wild speculation. Or they have governmental control over their citizens, which I find hard to believe in any country short of communist or dictatorships.

    On what basis do you think Germany is lying? Or Australia?


    Australia and NZ have relatively low Covid numbers - yes I get that their populations are lower but I mean low proportionate numbers.

    They are not communist countries.

    One could argue they are more socialist countries than US since they have things like universal medical care - but are you really suggesting that means their Covid numbers are falsified???



    I assume you were directing this to cmriverside and not me (even though you quoted me), since it seems like you and I are agreeing.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,986 Member
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    SuzySunshine99 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    So, to go back to a more literal sense of "prepping," does anyone shop at Trader Joe's? It's not my regular grocery store, but I like to go a few times a year to stock up on some of their frozen and non-perishable foods that I especially like. The TJs near me are all pretty small (my sense is that that's true of the entire chain, but I don't know), and in the BC (before covid) they were always pretty crowded when I went in. We have capacity limits now for retailers where I live, and I have had to wait briefly to get into a Whole Foods once and into Home Depot once, but I'm more concerned about the conditions once I get inside than I am about the prospect of having to wait in line.

    For those of you who have capacity limits in place locally and shop at a TJs, have you felt like social distancing is a realistic possibility once you get inside?

    There is a Trader Joe's close to my house. I used to go maybe once a month, but now on a more regular basis. If you are able, I'd suggest going in off-peak hours. Mine has over-60 hours from 8:00-9:00 and then opens for everyone at 9:00. I get there right at 9:00 and have not ever had to wait outside because of the capacity limit. Weekdays are much better than weekends if you can do it.

    It is a small store with narrow aisles, so social distancing can be challenging sometimes, but my store is very strict on their mask policy. They have an employee at the door disinfecting carts and checking for masks.

    For checkout, they have another employee directing traffic to the checkout lanes. They take your cart, and you have to stand 6 feet away from the cashier until everything is bagged and it's time to pay. They won't use reusable bags, you have to take the paper ones.

    That's how it is at mine...I'm not sure if these policies are nationwide or just in my area (Chicago).

    Thanks for the insights. It does sound like they're being very conscientious. I may try going early on Sunday, or putting it off until August when I'll be taking some "staycation" days and can go on a weekday as you suggest. I found that going right after senior hours on a Sunday has worked well at another grocery chain with larger stores and wider aisles.

    Went to my local semi-outdoor farmstand today to stock up on fresh produce ("semi" outdoor as most of it is roofed, and there is an indoor space but there are multiple wide doors propped open -- it feels much more like outdoor ventilation than indoor). They've installed plexiglass to protect the workers weighing produce and running the cash register. If you pay by credit card, the device is on your side of the plexiglass.

    And I picked up some bagels at a bagel/deli shop that has good social distancing in place and compliant customers -- people wait outside until it's their turn to approach the cashier, and then leave immediately if they didn't order anything (like a sandwich) that they have to wait to be prepared. Most people are just getting bagels, I think, as they just order, pay (credit card only using a device on the customer's side of the plexiglass), and leave.

    So going to a regular grocery store isn't urgent for this weekend, although I may find myself having to mix up powdered milk by the end of the week if I don't.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,986 Member
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    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    lemurcat2 wrote: »
    cmriverside wrote: »
    If you look at that Johns Hopkins link I posted above, you'll see that our rate of death per case is 3.9% (edit - in the U.S.) and Germany's is 4.5%, so again - not sure what the point was there. Sweden is at 7.3%, UK at 15.4%.

    Death per cases is not a reliable stat, because many or most with coronavirus aren't being tested. That's why the best comparison is death per millions.

    In addition, deaths per cases is not a reliable stat because our incidence of new cases is rising so fast. The majority of our cases are not yet resolved. You cannot treat all those unresolved cases as cases that did not result in death. Many of them will still result in deaths (based on current figures on the Johns Hopkins site, as many as 11% of those unresolved cases in the U.S. will end in death -- and if you consider that rising cases means greater strain on the health care system and potentially poorer care and triaging, that rate could rise).

    Yeah, totally agree, which is why I pointed out that our 422/million is lower than Italy and Spain, but their cases are largely resolved and ours are still rising. Specifically, part of the US (the NE) had quite high peaks and are on the other side. Others flattened the curves much more, but are in a holding pattern where we still are getting far too many new cases and it could easily rise (I'd put Cook County, IL, parts of MI, probably other parts of the industrial midwest, etc. in this category). And many have not yet peaked -- all the states growing now.

    The deaths per million are more relevant for the areas that have peaked and are basically on the other side -- many European countries (not the UK), likely (if they avoid a second wave) the NE US, or at least those states that got hit heavily already, and then the other countries that seem to have it under control.
    I agree that deaths per millions is probably the best comparison between countries, but if you want to get some sense of the percentage of covid cases in a particular country are ending in death, you would do better to look at [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries]. Admittedly, that may be a little high, as it appears on average, from the (largely anecdotal) information I've seen, that average time to recovery is probably somewhat longer than average time to death. But it's going to be far closer to the truth than using a denominator in which two-thirds* of the cases have not yet resolved in either death or recovery

    I'm operating on the understanding that many of the recovered cases were not caught and that there's likely not a huge difference in the percentage who get it who die, if we knew how many really had it (that latter could be false, but it's simply impossible to compare total number of cases or total recovered, especially when looking at places hit early on, when testing could not keep up).

    I guess I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about using [deaths] divided by [deaths + recoveries] to compare across countries. I'm saying if one were trying to get a handle on how many more people might be expected to die in, for example, the U.S. among the 2.4 million current unresolved cases, and additional 70,000 new cases per diem, one should not divide deaths by total cases, but rather deaths by resolved cases (deaths + recoveries).

    It won't be perfect. It might overestimate because of possible disparities between the death and recovery timelines as well as the possibility that wider testing is picking up more asymptomatic and mild cases and the possibility that treatment protocols are improving and becoming more effective over time. On the other hand, it might underestimate because rising cases will overwhelm the health system and lead to compromised treatment and even denial of treatment. In any case, it has to be a lot better estimate than using an inflated denominator that assumes that none of those 2.4 million current unresolved cases and daily additional 70,000 new cases will end in death.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 9,986 Member
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    @ahoy_m8 , @gradchica27 , @lemurcat2
    Thanks for the Trader Joe insights.
  • richardgavel
    richardgavel Posts: 1,001 Member
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    dbanks80 wrote: »
    Our Mayor in Chicago said if the young people don't start wearing masks and practice social distancing, we are going back to Phase 3 which means closing businesses, restaurants, salons and THE GYM!!!!! NOOOOOOOO!!! :'(:'(:'(

    And yet, I haven't seen anyone at the gym without a mask. They are cleaning the equipment. So what is the value of closing places that based on the science, are low risk to spread? I though decisions were being made based on facts and science.

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