Coronavirus prep
Replies
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cwolfman13 wrote: »
I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.
I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.
Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.
Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.
It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.
We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?
I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢
From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱
I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.
I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.cwolfman13 wrote: »
I couldn't imagine being in my early to mid 20s right now when my entire life revolved around social interactions...dating, parties, bars and clubs, etc. I'm honestly not sure what my reaction would have been if I was 22 years old or something and I was told I just needed to stay home for a year + and not see or gather with my friends.
I graduated university in 2019, so less than a year before covid. I have a lot of friends who are still studying, just graduated high school etc., and I’m still pretty active in my student community (in supporting senior/alumni roles). It breaks my heart to see especially those who graduated high school last spring try to find their place. All those once-in-a-lifetime experiences like high school graduation and freshman year at university were destroyed, and the critical time to find new friends and adult social circles is missing. They either didn’t get to move out from their parents’ homes as planned, or they’re stuck in tiny student housing instead of meeting people in classes, cafeterias, parties and student events. They are expected to stay home in their bedrooms looking at laptops all day, not meeting new people and making connections that are crucial as both friendships and career networks.
Apart from individual level, I’m also genuinely concerned for the amount of (student) culture that disappears from society due to covid. Of course, some traditions would have eventually died anyway, but some have lasted generations and generations (seriously, my most important student community is 368 years old) and are dependent on new student generations adopting those traditions and customs to pass them on. New traditions will grow eventually, but my heart breaks for the students who anticipated being introduced to those traditions and their time being stolen away from them, as well as the communities whose traditions will be lost because 2 years is enough of a gap for the chain of student generations to break and start losing its collective memory.
Those traditions are amazing, and at least for me were a key part in forming my student experience (and also a good reason why it took me 6 years to graduate and what keeps me still involved). There are so many traditions that simply don’t exist outside student societies and communities. I’m especially hurting for May Day celebrations, which are a huge deal here and celebrated nationally by pretty much everyone, especially college-educated people. It’s big enough that I’ve participated in the traditions since I was a baby, my parents and all their friends still participate and show up for the huge city-wide picnics, and I remember my grandparents showing up well into their 70s. While the main thing is commonly shared and people experience it with their families starting very young, each student community has their own specific traditions that are hugely important and that current freshmen and sophomores are missing out on, and will never get back because May Day traditionally has initiation rites that mark the passing from freshmen to full members of those communities. You can always postpone settling down and spend a couple of extra years partying post-covid if that’s your thing, but traditions and one-time-things like that you can’t get back.
It sucks, I agree. But getting frustrated and fatigued and bored isn’t the answer. We’re not the ones in control here, the virus is, because of our inconsistency on moderating our behaviors.
We go into lockdown, things get better. We chomp at the bit to get out, we do, things get worse again. I’m afraid we will find ourselves trapped in this terrible cycle for a long time if we can’t become OK sacrificing these one-of-a-kind things. No prom or graduation? Awful. Spending your first year of college with no cool events, sports, or late-night bonding with new friends? Terrible. Losing loved ones to a virus? Tragic and unspeakable. For me, there’s no comparison. And I can see how that view might not translate. And my students really are such good kids. They truly are. And even they are fraying at the edges. More than anything, I don’t want the message to hit home because the virus has. I know too many people who were ambivalent about the virus and angry at the restrictions until they were personally affected. What happened to our empathy?
I’m tired and frustrated, too. And when I get the urge to run a little amok, I think of that Maine wedding last August. 55 people attended. 177 people known infected as a result. 7 deaths, none of whom attended the wedding. 😢
From my own experience, 4 or 5 college students go apartment hunting for next year at the end of January. One of them was COVID positive and asymptomatic. From that one day there were 7 or 8 positives and almost 60 people quarantined just on campus. (We have a strict protocol for quarantine when exposed on campus). That doesn’t include any non-students with whom they came into contact while out that day. And because they went looking on a Friday and weren’t tested again until the following Monday (regular weekly test), and several of the positives had gone home that weekend ... 😱😱😱
I absolutely agree that allowing exceptions and thinking things don’t count is not the answer. I do wish, however, that we as a society would express more empathy to those who have it extra hard, not just financially or medically, but also socially and mentally. The last thing we need is condescending or telling people off as young and stupid, with the response of masses thinking ”well F you, too” and gathering to party as an unconscious protest because we refused to understand their pain or where they’re coming from in this situation. A lot of things can be helped through open, honest and mature communication and empathy.
I’m tired and frustrated too. I’m also the one having to endlessly enforce and advise covid protocols at work, and whenever I get the urge to do something a little reckless or not follow guidelines, I ask myself what I’d tell my colleagues if they asked for my advise or opinion in that particular situation. Usually, what I would tell them is along the lines of ”I know it sucks, but you have to get tested/quarantine/mask up/(insert applicable advise here), there’s no way around it”. After realising my own answer, it’s a lot easier to do the responsible thing.
OK, so the pics we see lately are Spring-breakers, obviously young people. But that's just one example of stupidity. Personally, I don't see this as a "young people problem." When I look around, I see spoiled people of ALL ages being reckless, selfish and stupid. In fact, the youth in my area are just as likely to be following protocol as the adults. Most young people don't actually go to these massive Spring Break festivals. That would be tens of millions, not just thousands, swarming Florida beaches. They are not particularly reckless, compared to others. But clearly, enough are that they may be endangering others.
I personally know multiple 65+ people who have been actively traveling for months, refusing to mask, brushing off COVID-19 as nothing more than a cold. It's not an age thing. When an adult does something stupid and selfish, we say that individual is stupid and selfish. When a young person does something stupid and selfish, we say young people are stupid and selfish. We love to generalize and stereotype.
So when I say WE are a spoiled group of people that aren't used to the hardships that past generations have gone through (and therefore are traumatized by slight inconveniences) I mean WE. I don't mean young people. I mean ALL the people, from the Boomers on down the line. Young people in that transitional stage (late teens/early twenties) probably are having the hardest time. But like all those before us who have faced adversity, WE will survive. It sucks but it could be so much worse. It's not the end of the world to wear a mask and social distance for a year or two.
And the stupidity isn’t limited to those crazy spring breakers. Here in Southern California we’ve got a few pockets of anti-science/COVID is a hoax people. Someone who said ventilators kill people and is anti-all COVID restrictions/anti-vax was elected to the Huntington Beach city council! (MMA fighter, Tito-something, methinks.) Protestors blocked the Dodger Stadium vaccination site a few weeks ago and shut it down for a few hours.
I truly struggle with the lack of community responsibility some folks have. This is a contagious disease, not something that can’t be passed from person to person. Or to block vaccination sites and keep people who want one from getting it. (The signs said they were trying to “save the sheeple.”) Or saying it’s a hoax and the treatments that save lives actually make people worse. I’m sure the loved ones of the 500,000+ people in the US who’ve died would disagree about the hoax part. 😕
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Here in Finland the discussion around both infection surges and rule-breakers has been very much about young people in the media. There’s currently a big surge that’s being traced to a student dorm with shared kitchens - obviously the virus will spread there if people are confined in and can’t leave, they still have to use the shared kitchens to prepare the food they eat. Students are still called reckless because they, well, eat while quarantining. Bars were closed a couple months ago again, and it was largely blamed in the media on ”reckless 20-somethings who force us to not have nice things”. Even in the USA-centric media the discussion has lately been dominated by spring breakers. Then again, when other age groups do something irresponsible, they are allowed. Last week there was a large anti-restriction protest here (mostly middle-aged people who identify with the political right, to say nicely) that broke several laws and restrictions about how many people can gather, wearing masks etc., and the protest was allowed to go on without police interference. About two years ago there was a large climate protest (mostly young people) that broke zero laws or restrictions, but was broken up by police and some of the protestors were injured due to violence.
I do think some (not all) are definitely suffering because of the restrictions. For many young people, their most important social circles are outside the home. Young people also don’t typically have ”family rooms”, at least not here. Instead, many live alone in tiny apartments, trying to make it through the day/month/year without social interactions or money (since their jobs are typically in the service industry) while the media calls them reckless and stupid because the ones that do -unjustly- take matters into their own hands ruin it for everyone.
Humans are social animals, socializing with others tends to be important to us. Mental health is important too and suffering isn’t limited to physical pain. My own alma mater completed their study in December and up to 60% of all students are experiencing burnout symptoms. The university has about 35 000 students, 60% of that is 21 000. That’s a big number of students with mental health issues for just one university, and burnout symptoms tend to linger and cause problems later in life.
I’m absolutely not saying that students and 20-somethings are somehow special snowflakes. I’m saying they’re treated unfairly in the media and their circumstances and suffering are not taken seriously, at least compared to many other demographic groups.8 -
Well there is evidence that ventilators were overused at the start of the pandemic, giving them bad press.
Subsequently they rediscovered simply moving patients to the PRONE position achieved very good results, as a precursor to intubation.
https://www.cuimc.columbia.edu/news/proning-covid-19-patients-reduces-need-ventilators
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Here in Finland the discussion around both infection surges and rule-breakers has been very much about young people in the media. There’s currently a big surge that’s being traced to a student dorm with shared kitchens - obviously the virus will spread there if people are confined in and can’t leave, they still have to use the shared kitchens to prepare the food they eat. Students are still called reckless because they, well, eat while quarantining. Bars were closed a couple months ago again, and it was largely blamed in the media on ”reckless 20-somethings who force us to not have nice things”. Even in the USA-centric media the discussion has lately been dominated by spring breakers. Then again, when other age groups do something irresponsible, they are allowed. Last week there was a large anti-restriction protest here (mostly middle-aged people who identify with the political right, to say nicely) that broke several laws and restrictions about how many people can gather, wearing masks etc., and the protest was allowed to go on without police interference. About two years ago there was a large climate protest (mostly young people) that broke zero laws or restrictions, but was broken up by police and some of the protestors were injured due to violence.
I do think some (not all) are definitely suffering because of the restrictions. For many young people, their most important social circles are outside the home. Young people also don’t typically have ”family rooms”, at least not here. Instead, many live alone in tiny apartments, trying to make it through the day/month/year without social interactions or money (since their jobs are typically in the service industry) while the media calls them reckless and stupid because the ones that do -unjustly- take matters into their own hands ruin it for everyone.
Humans are social animals, socializing with others tends to be important to us. Mental health is important too and suffering isn’t limited to physical pain. My own alma mater completed their study in December and up to 60% of all students are experiencing burnout symptoms. The university has about 35 000 students, 60% of that is 21 000. That’s a big number of students with mental health issues for just one university, and burnout symptoms tend to linger and cause problems later in life.
I’m absolutely not saying that students and 20-somethings are somehow special snowflakes. I’m saying they’re treated unfairly in the media and their circumstances and suffering are not taken seriously, at least compared to many other demographic groups.
Interesting about your thought that the young are being blamed. I am currently in a Florida home (since mid-feb) and was reading something about the Florida surges yesterday due to spring breakers. What I found odd is that the article noted that the spring breakers were “Causing a surge in 24-49 years olds”. Huh? I don’t know many 24-49 year old partying college kids!2 -
Here in Finland the discussion around both infection surges and rule-breakers has been very much about young people in the media. There’s currently a big surge that’s being traced to a student dorm with shared kitchens - obviously the virus will spread there if people are confined in and can’t leave, they still have to use the shared kitchens to prepare the food they eat. Students are still called reckless because they, well, eat while quarantining. Bars were closed a couple months ago again, and it was largely blamed in the media on ”reckless 20-somethings who force us to not have nice things”. Even in the USA-centric media the discussion has lately been dominated by spring breakers. Then again, when other age groups do something irresponsible, they are allowed. Last week there was a large anti-restriction protest here (mostly middle-aged people who identify with the political right, to say nicely) that broke several laws and restrictions about how many people can gather, wearing masks etc., and the protest was allowed to go on without police interference. About two years ago there was a large climate protest (mostly young people) that broke zero laws or restrictions, but was broken up by police and some of the protestors were injured due to violence.
I do think some (not all) are definitely suffering because of the restrictions. For many young people, their most important social circles are outside the home. Young people also don’t typically have ”family rooms”, at least not here. Instead, many live alone in tiny apartments, trying to make it through the day/month/year without social interactions or money (since their jobs are typically in the service industry) while the media calls them reckless and stupid because the ones that do -unjustly- take matters into their own hands ruin it for everyone.
Humans are social animals, socializing with others tends to be important to us. Mental health is important too and suffering isn’t limited to physical pain. My own alma mater completed their study in December and up to 60% of all students are experiencing burnout symptoms. The university has about 35 000 students, 60% of that is 21 000. That’s a big number of students with mental health issues for just one university, and burnout symptoms tend to linger and cause problems later in life.
I’m absolutely not saying that students and 20-somethings are somehow special snowflakes. I’m saying they’re treated unfairly in the media and their circumstances and suffering are not taken seriously, at least compared to many other demographic groups.
Interesting about your thought that the young are being blamed. I am currently in a Florida home (since mid-feb) and was reading something about the Florida surges yesterday due to spring breakers. What I found odd is that the article noted that the spring breakers were “Causing a surge in 24-49 years olds”. Huh? I don’t know many 24-49 year old partying college kids!
Here there are saying there are recent increases in groups from 18-49 (and broken down to 18-29, 30-39, and 40-49). Nothing was said about spring breakers in the piece I am referencing, and of course people over 65 are vaccinated at a much greater rate here, which explains part of this.
As a general comment, I don't think it makes much sense to extrapolate from Finland to the US or vice versa--we have and have had much more widespread spread, as I understand it, and also one of the big issue in the US is people traveling about (starting with Mardi Gras and then spring break stuff at the beginning of this) and gathering and bringing it back, and that's why people are (understandably) upset by the spring break stuff. I really don't see that as people being unfair to the kids or whatever. I can't speak to Finland, but if there are specific isolated clusters that seem traceable to gathering by college kids in a country that's largely had low spread, then I can see why they would be discussed -- similar to how in Australia the source of the occasional clusters are identified and a matter for public policy reaction.5 -
I think that is the most helpful thing any of us can do. When you get a chance, take the vaccine. Don't second-guess the people orchestrating the distribution. When they say it is your time, whether or not you think others are more deserving, just do what they say as expeditiously as practical. Most of us are not privy to the micro-shifts in supply and demand so we should just cooperate -promptly- with the decision makers who are.
Oh, I plan to as soon as I can physically get an appointment. Even if I have to drive an hour to get it. I just don't expect to be able to do so for a while after the 31st unless I get stupid lucky. I don't have a lot of confidence in the state to do this well and to be prepared for everyone trying to get appointments.
I mean, the state is moving their mask mandate back to a mask advisory on the 6th. So WAY before we can get most people vaccinated. Which is a stupid as heck move. Masks will still be required in schools and on state property and counties and cities can still have their own mandates. Also businesses can still require them. I just think it is way too soon. I also think that doing it right after the Easter holiday, after people most likely have gathered with family and friends, is just going to result in a new spike. I, of course, will keep wearing a mask until fully vaccinated and science says it is okay. This decision is 100% political because our legislation is working on a bill to limit the governor's powers during an emergency (also stupid as heck).4 -
The wife and I both have scheduled our Pfizer shots tomorrow and have also scheduled the second shots as well. I honestly didn't anticipate getting it for a few months, so I'm happy to be getting it so soon.
My daughter is doing better now. Took a serious turn for the worse for a while (her emotional state, not physical). Honestly, that's what's been occupying my time and why I haven't been on here much. Been very, very hard -- yes, on me, but even more so on my wife and her.20 -
There are people vacationing/spring breaking, besides college age. A 9 year old Minnesota boy was attacked in 2 feet of water, by a shark, the other day, while on vacation with his family, near Miami.
I haven’t noticed any particular signaling out of young people only. It’s pretty much just people vacationing and guidelines by health care professionals, not recommending this behavior due to covid. The college age group are a big group though, and congregating in big groups. This behavior is nothing that some haven’t been doing, pretty much since last summer, when restrictions were eased after the shut down. Coming up, Easter. More of the same?4 -
I'm worried I'll be an outlier with any vaccination. I will still get one and follow scientifically based suggestions.5
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Here in Finland the discussion around both infection surges and rule-breakers has been very much about young people in the media. There’s currently a big surge that’s being traced to a student dorm with shared kitchens - obviously the virus will spread there if people are confined in and can’t leave, they still have to use the shared kitchens to prepare the food they eat. Students are still called reckless because they, well, eat while quarantining. Bars were closed a couple months ago again, and it was largely blamed in the media on ”reckless 20-somethings who force us to not have nice things”. Even in the USA-centric media the discussion has lately been dominated by spring breakers. Then again, when other age groups do something irresponsible, they are allowed. Last week there was a large anti-restriction protest here (mostly middle-aged people who identify with the political right, to say nicely) that broke several laws and restrictions about how many people can gather, wearing masks etc., and the protest was allowed to go on without police interference. About two years ago there was a large climate protest (mostly young people) that broke zero laws or restrictions, but was broken up by police and some of the protestors were injured due to violence.
I do think some (not all) are definitely suffering because of the restrictions. For many young people, their most important social circles are outside the home. Young people also don’t typically have ”family rooms”, at least not here. Instead, many live alone in tiny apartments, trying to make it through the day/month/year without social interactions or money (since their jobs are typically in the service industry) while the media calls them reckless and stupid because the ones that do -unjustly- take matters into their own hands ruin it for everyone.
Humans are social animals, socializing with others tends to be important to us. Mental health is important too and suffering isn’t limited to physical pain. My own alma mater completed their study in December and up to 60% of all students are experiencing burnout symptoms. The university has about 35 000 students, 60% of that is 21 000. That’s a big number of students with mental health issues for just one university, and burnout symptoms tend to linger and cause problems later in life.
I’m absolutely not saying that students and 20-somethings are somehow special snowflakes. I’m saying they’re treated unfairly in the media and their circumstances and suffering are not taken seriously, at least compared to many other demographic groups.
How much the restrictions are violated can also depend on the infrastructure in which people are living, I think.
For all on-campus housing we have reduced density (everyone is in singles), maximum bathroom ratios (no more than 6 people per bathroom), hand sanitizer and disinfectant/paper towels in all common spaces, and occupancy limits in all common areas like lounges and kitchens. We sanitize every surface 2x a day, 7 days a week. Each suite is its own pod, and if someone in the pod comes up positive, the entire pod is quarantined. And they have been really good with following the rules.
“Gatherings” of two or more people are not permitted, unless they’re sponsored (by us) events.
Penalties for violating COVID policies, especially the Gatherings policy can be severe. More severe than students throwing a party in the past due to the public health implications.
It’s hard on the students. A lot of our people would not be able to be in college if they weren’t on campus. Mostly due to internet that can’t sustain their online work, but also due to too many people at home (multi-generational households) to focus, or due to safety issues in the gone.
But that doesn’t mean the experience is ideal. Far from it, even for some of my more solitary engineers. It’s very different when the isolation is not a choice and you can’t go hang out with people anytime you feel the need. As a blessing and a curse, almost no students live on their own because housing is ridiculously expensive here. They’re packed into tiny apartments. Also not ideal under COVID. We trade one demon for another.
I like going into work, because I get to see people. (I’m single and live alone.) my students don’t really have that. We only allow 4-6 people in the “family room” all physically distances with face-coverings on.
There are very few folks in campus. I see more of the dining delivery robots (Starbucks, Panda Express) than I do humans when I go for a walk. And more bunnies. Oh, the bunnies. They’ve multiplied during the pandemic and seem to be running in herds. 🐰 Not gonna lie, they kinda scare me now. I knew watching Monty Python as a kid could scar me.
Our counseling center appointments are booked. By students on campus and off.
We’ve only recently begun to be able to do in-person events (with face-coverings and physical distancing) outside. From November to a couple weeks ago they weren’t permitted due to county virus conditions (restrictions put in place by the state).
The biggest issue we have is the asymptomatic carriers. Because they feel fine, they’ll get in a car and go somewhere, especially now that things are opening up more. Someone’s positive and they all get it, and then their suites are quarantined with 1 or 2 more coming up positive sometimes. Most of our students don’t have their own car, more than 50% are low income and they’re not supposed to carpool or share an Uber. And we do weekly testing, down from twice a week when things were really surging.
All we can do is the best we can and know the limitations of today will help more us make to a healthier tomorrow (someday).5 -
missysippy930 wrote: »There are people vacationing/spring breaking, besides college age. A 9 year old Minnesota boy was attacked in 2 feet of water, by a shark, the other day, while on vacation with his family, near Miami.
I haven’t noticed any particular signaling out of young people only. It’s pretty much just people vacationing and guidelines by health care professionals, not recommending this behavior due to covid. The college age group are a big group though, and congregating in big groups. This behavior is nothing that some haven’t been doing, pretty much since last summer, when restrictions were eased after the shut down. Coming up, Easter. More of the same?
Most shark attacks occur in 3 feet of water (or less).0 -
Got Pfizer vax #2 about 4 hours ago. So far, the only side effect was that (after the shot) my upper arm stung a tiny bit, not as bad as a bee sting (non-allergic), but it only lasted a few minutes, feels normal now. Otherwise, nothing yet.
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Given how relatively poorly CA has been doing thus far compared to other states and that we were still on Tier 1B, I wasn't sure I could believe this. But there it is, right there on the official CA site. https://covid19.ca.gov/vaccines/
I'm hesitantly elated because I don't know how long it will take once the surge in demand hits. On one hand I am excited to see a light at the end of the tunnel, but also somewhat sad to see the return to the office coming.
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I got my first vaccine on Tuesday (Moderna) and other than a sore arm and some body aches the next day was fine. Already scheduled for my 2nd shot. Going to be really glad to be fully vaccinated.14
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I'm worried I'll be an outlier with any vaccination. I will still get one and follow scientifically based suggestions.
Me too. Even though I'll be 94.1% protected (Moderna) once the final dose takes effect, that 5.9% risk is still going to keep me being careful until the virus is less prevalent in society. I'm still going to keep doing what I've been doing with precautions - wearing a mask at stores and work, washing hands, and I'll be wearing a KN95 if/when I fly. Having the vaccine will help me feel better, but not bulletproof.18 -
South Dakota has identified the UK, California and South African variants in the state.3
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The_Enginerd wrote: »I'm hesitantly elated because I don't know how long it will take once the surge in demand hits. On one hand I am excited to see a light at the end of the tunnel, but also somewhat sad to see the return to the office coming.
Has your workplace signaled they will start requiring on-site presence again? I personally find it absurd that any company would be able to force their staff to return to 100% on-site office work again, at least not without significant amounts of personnel leaving for more flexible employers or without very compelling reasons why being physically present is an absolute necessity.
Yes, I know I’m probably biased (my workplace has always been very flexible about time and place), but I can’t think of any good reason for regular office jobs to require on-site presence unless there’s a task-related need or a team-building/social interaction perspective to some event. Even before covid, my workplace (an IT company) only required on-site attendance for customer meetings when customers requested it and we sometimes had an office day with company meetings and the idea that everyone will be there on the same day so people can chat freely and get to know each other. People have been doing things like jetting off to Spain to work from there for a month, and we’ve been cool with people working from wherever they want as long as three criteria are met: they stay within the EU (due to data protection laws), have an internet connection and don’t make their time zone a problem.
I’ve been chatting with colleagues lately to hear their thoughts on what they want to do when we return back to ”normal” and most say they will continue working mostly remotely and will only come to the office when they see some extra value in it (like social interactions, brainstorming with colleagues, company events or meetings where in-person presence adds value). The only people who say they want to return 100% to office are the ones who go there daily for some personal reason even now.
From this perspective, large-scale return to requiring on-site office work seems very absurd, especially as people have proven in the last year that they can work remotely just fine.
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My workplace has already said they plan to return the office to pre-covid staffing levels by the end of April. Will they lose employees to more flexible employers? Probably, I know I've been putting in applications for any remote jobs I'm qualified for because I really don't want to go back. Do they care? Seemingly not. The company is run by an elderly man who literally said "it just doesn't feel like a family when you're not all here in the office." Someone needs to tell him his "family" has 6,000 people and most of us are just there for the paycheck, not the socialization.14
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I've shared this before (related to office versus remote). Companies are spending on office construction again. I have two sides to my recruiting business -- one is working with highly disruptive tech startups. The other side is working with companies that put the glass/metal facades on mid-rise and high rise buildings in larger cities. The construction side of my recruiting is going nuts currently. All the projects that were on hold are busting open again.
What that means to me is that many companies are planning to be in office again. Now, what I do isn't a fair representation of all construction, because a lot of what I do is heavily skewed toward large cities (and the busiest cities, like Nashville, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Philly, SF) and custom buildings (not your average 3 or 4 story blah building). Many of the companies I personally deal with believe it will be a hybrid, where employees might have more flex days at home, but many are expecting everyone to be working soon in the office.
In my honest opinion (and there's a lot of talk about this in the Architectural and R&D community, related to buildings), building codes in the US need dramatic revisions. "Value Engineering", which essentially means cutting costs so buildings get built, is killing the quality of our buildings. We need to require more energy efficiency, as well as much better air quality/sanitization of air within the built environment. Likely won't happen, but it would save so much more money in the long run if more was spent when building the buildings, and "cost" of the building needs to be considered over the life cycle of the building, not just in terms of how much it costs to put it up. Energy savings, not disrupting business or rent because of a pandemic should all be considered as part of the discussion. UV air purifiers could be easily retrofitted into air systems of existing buildings. And there are solutions for retrofitting building envelopes that now exist to make them more efficient.10 -
I work for a manufacturing company (engineering design all the way through completion of mostly aircraft parts that are very labor intensive) and we've been working on-site all along. We are lucky that we have a small number of staff at just 42 employees and can spread out. I work in a separate building of just 6 of us and we all have offices with doors. I never felt the need to work from home, and I'm sure a lot of smaller companies are similar. Very different types of work places out there, but I know bigger more congested ones are a totally different story.2
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MikePfirrman wrote: »Many of the companies I personally deal with believe it will be a hybrid, where employees might have more flex days at home, but many are expecting everyone to be working soon in the office.
This seems pretty right for what we are planning and what I know other firms in my field are planning -- everyone back in the office on a regular basis, but more flexibility for people choosing to work a couple days a week from home if they prefer. I think in my job it isn't the same with people mostly working remotely all the time, and I don't think that's likely to be the norm in the industry, but I do think there is more openness to flexibility and working from home sometimes on a regular basis, as that seems definitely possible. It will be interesting to see how much travel (which basically hasn't happened for the last year but used to be common) will be reduced for me. I have heard a lot from people over the past few months (and agree) that although Zoom initially seemed like a great option and alternative to doing things in person it is really not the same, and I think a lot of people will be happy to not have to do things through that nearly as much once this is over (although once it isn't so common I think it will still be a useful tool).
I think we are going to start transitioning into back in the office on a more regular basis in June, although it may be somewhat gradual and may depend on whether everyone is then vaccinated (which we think they all will be). Right now people are free to come in if they want/need (we did have a sign-up schedule to keep numbers down, but that hasn't been needed as the numbers haven't ever been too high on any individual day). Some of us come in pretty regularly, some people actually come in most days, as they find it hard for one reason or another to work from home (someone I know who is in another firm, for example, goes in since his wife is a teacher and they don't really have two good work areas, so it's less distracting for him to work from his office).
The big thing for me is that we've had parking paid for if we go in, so I've been able to go in, when I do, without taking the L. I don't plan on getting back on the L until I've been fully vaccinated, at least not to commute to and from work. (It's weird that I actually do kind of miss the L, though.)3 -
Got Pfizer vax #1 on Tuesday. Had some headaches first two days. Arm hurt a little - not nearly as much as the flu vaccine.13
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The_Enginerd wrote: »
LMAO - this is me! But I've actually been working from home since 2011. I've been hanging on to my professional clothes but actually have no desire to get back into them.8 -
I've been in the office the whole time. Our organization only permitted work from home under very limited, exceptional circumstances for upper management so they weren't prepared when the pandemic started. They ran out of laptops fast and if you wanted to work from home you were required to use your own computer. For some people that meant sharing devices with a WFH spouse and kids who were doing virtual learning. If you reside too far out of the metropolitan area your internet might not be adequate. I need too many basic office resources like printing/faxing/scanning that I couldn't do from home. One woman in a similar role to mine had to put in a day at home because of childcare needs and said it took her more than half a day to pre-prepare a day's work that she could actually do outside the office. That's horrendously inefficient.
However, with less of us there, I've always felt very safe. Everyone is fully compliant with masking and distancing. And it looks like I'll probably qualify for vaccination by occupation before I qualify by age.6 -
Seeing the snowballing effect. There have been several new cases around our small town, the high school and elementary schools, the correctional center and a nursing home.
A local restaurant just reopened for the season a couple weeks ago and big sign on the door saying it's now closed until further notice due to an employee having Covid. Keeps going round and round. 
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I've been "working from home" since last March, with a small break in the summer when cases were low and we went back in the office half-staff alternate days. There are only 7 of us. Since the last shutdown in December we have all been working from home - but the problem is we are not paperless so we each have to go into the office to pick up/drop off files and documents. With the latest surge we are only allowing one person in at a time so scheduling office time is a *kitten*, and we are an accounting firm so this time of year is insane. My office time is Tues and Thurs 7-10 AM, and Sunday 8-12 - so that's fun. It is really wearing on me at this point, last year we got through it, but a whole year has gone by and the push we felt last year to buckle down and get through it has faded. I just hope that we get a tax deadline extension, we did last year, it's just going to be impossible to get everything filed on time with everything going on.5
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They are also talking in my area about continuing to offer remote schooling. I wonder what everyone else thinks about that. At first I thought it would be OK, but then I started thinking about how sedentary I am when I am working from home. I have a step counter on my watch and when I work from home I am lucky to get in 1500 steps (not including my actual walks and exercise). When I go into the office I am usually closer to 4- 5000, even though I drive, just from walking around the office and such. I feel like kids are sedentary enough having them stay home all day, no walking to school or around during lunch and breaks, can't be great for their health.
(Edit: I don't have any kids in school so it doesn't affect me directly I was just thinking about it in a general way.)4 -
Right now people are free to come in if they want/need (we did have a sign-up schedule to keep numbers down, but that hasn't been needed as the numbers haven't ever been too high on any individual day). Some of us come in pretty regularly, some people actually come in most days, as they find it hard for one reason or another to work from home (someone I know who is in another firm, for example, goes in since his wife is a teacher and they don't really have two good work areas, so it's less distracting for him to work from his office).
Our office has been open like this since last summer. There are currently 2 people (out of 30ish) who use the office daily, and they’re both young people who live in small apartments within walking distance from the office. One more person uses the office regularly every week to escape his overly loud children (at least one of them has a disability that causes the extra loudness). Everyone else only uses the office occasionally, like when they need to print something, take an online exam (common in my field and requires a clean room many don’t have at home) or have some other business to run downtown near the office. We only introduced a sign-up schedule about a month ago when the government issued a ban of more than 6 non-household member adults congregating for any non-essential reason, and we had sometimes had 6 people in the office this winter.I need too many basic office resources like printing/faxing/scanning that I couldn't do from home. One woman in a similar role to mine had to put in a day at home because of childcare needs and said it took her more than half a day to pre-prepare a day's work that she could actually do outside the office. That's horrendously inefficient.
Until last month I visited the office every week or two partly because I needed to print stuff and check the company mail. With my pregnancy (hello, nausea) and the current restrictions that hasn’t been an option and the mail is becoming a problem, because there’s some mail that relates to our employee’s private matters and non-managers like the two who use the office daily can’t open it because of confidentiality issues. Current solution is that they get the mail, tell me who is written as sender on the envelope, and if I deem it potentially confidential they put the unopened letters in a larger envelope and send it to my home. Not very efficient, but at least it’s a solution. For non-confidential mail, they just open it, take a picture with their phones, and send me the pictures.
Another reason I need to sometimes visit the office is recruiting. We’ve recruited 10-15 new employees during the pandemic, and everyone still needs laptops, phones, office keys etc. Last spring the starters mostly preferred not visiting the office downtown, and instead came up with some creative solutions like driving to a park near my home (I don’t have a car) and meeting me at a pre-designated park bench to get their stuff I had picked up from the office earlier. People have gotten so tired and used to the situation now, though, that lately new staff has preferred a ”proper reason” like the new job to actually go downtown and visit the office on their first day. That means I have to go in whenever a new person starts, too, but even with all these exceptions visiting the office is still a specifically task-based need, not something mandated by management.
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They are also talking in my area about continuing to offer remote schooling. I wonder what everyone else thinks about that. At first I thought it would be OK, but then I started thinking about how sedentary I am when I am working from home. I have a step counter on my watch and when I work from home I am lucky to get in 1500 steps (not including my actual walks and exercise). When I go into the office I am usually closer to 4- 5000, even though I drive, just from walking around the office and such. I feel like kids are sedentary enough having them stay home all day, no walking to school or around during lunch and breaks, can't be great for their health.
(Edit: I don't have any kids in school so it doesn't affect me directly I was just thinking about it in a general way.)
In the long run, to me, it won't make that much difference. We have kids on both sides of my house. The one side, even though I know they have kids and how old they are, you NEVER see them. You might hear them in the pool a few times a year in the Summer. On the other side, they are constantly outside and playing.
Kids, in general, aren't very active compared to the past. My parents would be arrested if I were a kid now, going around on my bike until dark, riding like 6 miles a day, all over the neighborhood and surrounding area, just playing over at various friends houses. They never knew where I was. My mom worked second shift. And I wasn't that unusual back then. Now, you'd be considered a "free range parent" or whatever. Part of it for good reason -- we now know that many would prey on kids if given the chance -- not that they didn't back in my day, it just wasn't understood or talked about. But most of it is video games and phones have taken the place of physical activity, outside of organized sports. And that's a shame.
The social challenges have been seriously tough on many (including my own family), but in some ways, having technology and phones, Zoom, etc. have allowed kids/teens to keep in touch.4
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