Coronavirus prep
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GaleHawkins wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Noreenmarie1234 wrote: »https://news.yahoo.com/couple-arrested-boarding-flight-testing-040205355.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&utm_content=algorithm
Couple arrested for boarding a plane knowing they were covid positive.
I'd like to see a lot more arrests for reckless endangerment:
"...were arrested on charges of second-degree reckless endangerment. They were released after posting bail, which was set at $1,000 each, and are now facing a $2,000 fine and up to a year behind bars if convicted."
Yes the plane thing is over the top for sure but do you realize positive testing health care workers without symptoms can still pull shifts in Covid-19 isolation areas due to staffing shortages and to help protect the negative testing staff? What about doctors and nurses with someone at home with Covid-19?
Without justifying or condoning allowing sick personnel to fill gaps in the hospitals ICUs, I would like to mention that they do wear protective equipment that could reduce, and hopefully/maybe eliminate, the spread of the virus, and they are working in isolated areas.
But two COVID positive people, and maybe the child too, just wearing a simple mask seating in a plane full of hopefully negative people for several hours, is way worse.15 -
paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.1 -
I just came across this article and I think that is worthy to share it with all of you.
A few hours of flu-like symptoms? 'Absolutely' worth it for this woman who was in a Covid-19 vaccine trial
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-trial-participant/index.html7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
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My understanding is that some vaccines currently in use for other viruses are "protective" - meaning you still become infected and shed the virus, but don't get sick. Other vaccines currently in use (I think most of them) are "sterilizing" - meaning you will not get infected or shed, the virus just passes through you.
I think a protective vaccine can still help control spread by limiting the amount of time an infected person carries and sheds the virus, but would still leave at some (possibly substantial, I don't know) risk anyone who isn't vaccinated. I don't believe they have enough data yet to tell if any of the covid vaccines in trials could be sterilizing, especially the RNA vaccines as these are the first ever. So we probably have to assume that the vaccinated could still act as vectors until proven otherwise, and masks at least should still be required.
The goal is a sterilizing vaccine regardless, because that's how you get herd immunity.
Unfortunately I doubt any of that is obvious to most people. I've only learned this through a lot of research because I'm geeking out on this. I am really hoping messaging in the US will improve soon, and it will be easier for people open to learning to do so.
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I just came across this article and I think that is worthy to share it with all of you.
A few hours of flu-like symptoms? 'Absolutely' worth it for this woman who was in a Covid-19 vaccine trial
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-vaccine-trial-participant/index.html
Yes, that message is important! It does sound like a reasonable minority will feel legit sick like that for several hours to a day, so this is something else I hope gets communicated. Feeling sick or fatigued for 24 hours afterward won't mean something's wrong. Luckily it sounds like it's the 2nd shot that's causing most of it, so at least hopefully it won't cause people to get the 1st but skip the 2nd!1 -
paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
@kimny72 gave a very good explanation for the 2 different types of vaccines. I'll acknowledge we don't have all the information on all of the different vaccine candidates for Covid. However, what has been shared tells us that Moderna's for sure is a "protective" vaccine and I thought there was something on one of the others as well that indicated it is a "protective" vaccine (would have to look for it). For the others, nothing has indicated either way. Considering the development timeline, it seems unlikely they would be "sterilizing" vaccines.1 -
No, we don't know. I quoted the bit about the Moderna vaccine just a page or so ago (it's the same thing that was in the thread earlier), and they don't know if it prevents/reduces transmission yet (from what I've read they think it likely reduces it at least).
Same with Pfizer's: https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-chairman-not-clear-people-spread-covid-19-after-vaccine-2020-12. They simply have not studied that yet.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »spiriteagle99 wrote: »An interesting interactive feature:
Find out where you are in line for the vaccine!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
In the graphic of 100 people, I was 5th from last. The only aspect I was curious about is why "young adults" and "children" came earlier than a 59 year old given all the information about the young typically having a much less dangerous response to the virus.
I'm 50, and was 8th from the end, which I suspect is about county vs any difference between 59 and 50.
I can see the explanation for the kids, maybe -- one of the most important things is getting them back to school and preventing spread related to that, even if they themselves are unlikely to get sick (or seriously so). Don't get the young adults all being ahead given the risk factors. Eh, shrug, Gen X just doesn't matter once again! ;-)
Neat idea, but the vaccine does not prevent people from getting and spreading the virus. They just don't get sick from it.... they become asymptomatic carriers, essentially.
I'm not sure that's been proven, i thought it was just being assumed because they can't prove yet the RNA vaccines sterilize the virus. Don't quote me on that though
Vaccines won't end Covid so keep wearing your mask, top health official says
Coronavirus vaccines will provide some light at the end of the tunnel, but they alone won't mean an end to Covid-19, one leading health official said Friday.
"I would like to say vaccines do not equal zero Covid," said Dr. Michael Ryan, the executive director of the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. "Vaccines and vaccination will add a major, major, powerful tool to the toolkit that we have. "But by themselves they will not do the job."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/04/health/us-coronavirus-friday/index.html
That seems obvious common sense to me - of course we will still have to take precautions and of course the disease will not just instantly (or maybe ever) go away.
No different to flu vaccine, whooping cough etc - obviously they are still around despite vaccination.
But much much less since we reduce the pool of virus transmisson and those who are vaccinated and still get it, it is much less severe
Is anyone really expecting an instant "smallpox is eradicated from the world" " result ????
That is not at all how the vaccine works, at least with my understanding. Vaccinated people will still transmit the virus just as easily as everyone else.
ETA: Probably more than everyone else, in fact. Assuming the non-vaccinated are more likely to take precautions and the vaccinated believe (incorrectly) that they do not need to take any precautions because they have the vaccine.
I havent closely studied this vaccine - but it is how most vaccines work.
Vaccinated people do not get the diseases nearly as much as non vaccinated people and the pool of transmission reduces.
basic principle of herd immunity.
@kimny72 gave a very good explanation for the 2 different types of vaccines. I'll acknowledge we don't have all the information on all of the different vaccine candidates for Covid. However, what has been shared tells us that Moderna's for sure is a "protective" vaccine and I thought there was something on one of the others as well that indicated it is a "protective" vaccine (would have to look for it). For the others, nothing has indicated either way. Considering the development timeline, it seems unlikely they would be "sterilizing" vaccines.
The development timeline, I believe, doesn't in itself strictly determine or relate to whether a vaccine is protective or sterilizing. The mRNA vaccines in particular are a very new approach, which limits predictability of their behavior. In news reports quoted earlier in the thread, representatives of the companies are being very conservative in their statements, i.e., saying that it is *not* proven that the new vaccines are sterilizing. It's unknown at this point (and *that* - the lack of definitive answer) may have something to do with the development timeline.
I haven't seen/heard any basis for assuming one way or the other, personally. I think it's an open question; that is they *may* be sterilizing: TBD. They *are* protective: Shown in trials.
My understanding, also, is consistent with something (that I think) Kimny said: That even a protective-only vaccine can limit the amount of time a vaccinated person could be shedding communicable virus, even if it doesn't completely stop them from spreading the virus to unvaccinated people. Even a shortened shedding period would limit spread somewhat.
However, I'm not any kind of expert, this is just my understanding from reports I've followed.6 -
So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.2
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Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.12 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
Humans were programmed with a strong death wish perhaps. Maybe we are just lazy. In my case the lightbulb did not come on until I was rushing towards a misable death at the age of 63 in 2014.
I have family that still think that Type 2 Diabetes is a disease instead of being a side effect of their Eating Lifestyle.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
Humans were programmed with a strong death wish perhaps. Maybe we are just lazy. In my case the lightbulb did not come on until I was rushing towards a misable death at the age of 63 in 2014.
I have family that still think that Type 2 Diabetes is a disease instead of being a side effect of their Eating Lifestyle.
Good for you on finding the switch.2 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
I have had this same complaint. If there are variables that one has control over, why not make the effort.
On a related note, not sure where I heard it, but likely the evening news. But a gastric by pass doctor reported he was getting deluged with surgery requests. So maybe, some people are thinking the right way.
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SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?4 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
If people can’t even heed the public health guideline to wear a mask, do you seriously think they will take the advice to lose weight?
No amount of “messaging” has EVER resulted in people making a lifestyle change that they do not want to make.
People already know that being obese can result in early death. Does that knowledge have any effect on obesity rates? Nope.
Spending public money on a campaign like that would be a waste of money in my opinion.23 -
SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?
The vaccination doesn't *cause* the shedding.
The issue about shedding arises when a vaccinated person later encounters an infected person. What's unknown is whether the vaccinated person gets "infected enough" in that scenario, while their body is successfully (symptomlessly) fighting it off, to temporarily become a carrier.
As long as you don't get infected with Covid after your vaccination, but before your family's vaccination achieves immunity for them, the issue doesn't arise.
And the side effects of the vaccination are not all that lengthy/severe for most people, anyway - not debilitating, commonly; and only lasting hours to a day or so, commonly, per reports.6 -
SummerSkier wrote: »So if these are "protective" and not "sterilizing" yet it would mean that we should immunize in family or social groups? So for instance households would be best off all getting the shot at the same time or nursing homes etc.
I was thinking about this to a degree as well. When I first heard that there could be incomfortable side-effects, I was thinking that hubby and I should stagger our vaccinations in case one needed to care for the other (thought the same for my parents), but if person #1 is shedding the virus after vaccinations, could the delayed person #2 contract full fledged COVID during those weeks?
You don't shed the virus after vaccination...at least not with the RNA or spike protein vaccines. If you become infected, then you may shed it. Sorry if this is what you meant.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »Small rant on public health messages on Covid. We hear wear masks, distance, wash hands and those with comorbidities are more susceptible to complications from Covid.
Where is the messaging to take positive steps to reduce comorbidities? Lose weight, positive steps for better nutrition, etc.
I have had this same complaint. If there are variables that one has control over, why not make the effort.
On a related note, not sure where I heard it, but likely the evening news. But a gastric by pass doctor reported he was getting deluged with surgery requests. So maybe, some people are thinking the right way.
Yep.
Related to the gastric bypass surgery. If someone was morbidly obese obese when this all started and lost a reasonable 2 pounds a week we'd be talking 70 pounds or so taking many out of the morbidity obsse category just by taking personal responsibility.10
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