Coronavirus prep
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allother94 wrote: »Heard a report (NPR news) today about a hospital where they test everyone on arrival, no matter what has brought them to the hospital/ER, no matter whether Covid-symptomatic or not. With the Omicron wave, 1 in 7 people coming into the hospital are testing positive. The test report comes back after they've been in the hospital for a while, if only in the ER.
Those presenting for other conditions, with no Covid symptoms, have by that time encountered various staff members who are not in full Covid-precautions mode. It's leading to an increase in cases among the staff, usually minor because staff are vaccinated. Even so, staff need to isolate for a minimum of 5 days, so even more staffing shortages are resulting.
There are a lot of moving parts to all of these systems, and new circumstances cause new complications/problems.
Another reason to stay away from the ER if you don't truly need to be there is the potential to contract Covid from fellow patients in the ER. Obviously, don't stay away if you have a serious medical problem. It's a balance of risks question.
Very true! If one doesn’t have Covid then there is a high chance of catching it by coming in. Everyone who has had a potential exposure or respiratory symptoms even if not Covid are lumped together in our Covid tent, because we can’t put them with the general population.
We are short staffed again tomorrow. It sucks. And patients complain so much about the wait times not realizing we get no breaks, bend over backwards for them, and put our health on the line. This pandemic has really made me lose faith in humanity as a whole.
My current stance is that hospitals should turn away unvaccinated patients and not offer testing. That should solve the CoVid hospital problem.
Why don’t hospitals have an online checking and waiting system? I know emergencies are just that, but what good does it do sitting in a room for 10 hours when you can stay at home until you can be seen?
Trust me, I wish we could. Thanks y’all.5 -
rheddmobile wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Heard a report (NPR news) today about a hospital where they test everyone on arrival, no matter what has brought them to the hospital/ER, no matter whether Covid-symptomatic or not. With the Omicron wave, 1 in 7 people coming into the hospital are testing positive. The test report comes back after they've been in the hospital for a while, if only in the ER.
Those presenting for other conditions, with no Covid symptoms, have by that time encountered various staff members who are not in full Covid-precautions mode. It's leading to an increase in cases among the staff, usually minor because staff are vaccinated. Even so, staff need to isolate for a minimum of 5 days, so even more staffing shortages are resulting.
There are a lot of moving parts to all of these systems, and new circumstances cause new complications/problems.
Another reason to stay away from the ER if you don't truly need to be there is the potential to contract Covid from fellow patients in the ER. Obviously, don't stay away if you have a serious medical problem. It's a balance of risks question.
Very true! If one doesn’t have Covid then there is a high chance of catching it by coming in. Everyone who has had a potential exposure or respiratory symptoms even if not Covid are lumped together in our Covid tent, because we can’t put them with the general population.
We are short staffed again tomorrow. It sucks. And patients complain so much about the wait times not realizing we get no breaks, bend over backwards for them, and put our health on the line. This pandemic has really made me lose faith in humanity as a whole.
My current stance is that hospitals should turn away unvaccinated patients and not offer testing. That should solve the CoVid hospital problem.
Why don’t hospitals have an online checking and waiting system? I know emergencies are just that, but what good does it do sitting in a room for 10 hours when you can stay at home until you can be seen?
I am for the vaccine, but I also don't really feel that we need to turn away those from the hospital that are unvaccinated. What about those that choose not to get vaccinated because of a reaction. For example my dad is 66 years old. He went in and got his Pfizer shot and had about two weeks of body aches, fatigue and felt awful. After getting his second shot, within in 24 hours he was rushed to the hospital in severe pain. He stayed in the hospital over a week, turns out there was increasing inflammation that was pushing on a nerve in his back. He had to have surgery and it has almost been a year and is still not able to walk without a limp. There was no proof that it was the vaccine, but now he is really scared to get his booster and I don't blame him.
My father in law is another one that won't be getting his booster. After his two shots his RA flared up and has been worse ever since. I know it could all be a coincidence, but why look down on those who choose not to get vaccinated because of reactions they have had.
I have lupus, and my lupus flared after both shots and the booster. That’s not all that surprising since any vaccine usually makes me flare for about a week. You know what’s worse than a lupus flare, though? Death.
Also, if an autoimmune condition was going to flare in response to the vaccine, it will certainly flare even worse in response to the disease.Theoldguy1 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »Heard a report (NPR news) today about a hospital where they test everyone on arrival, no matter what has brought them to the hospital/ER, no matter whether Covid-symptomatic or not. With the Omicron wave, 1 in 7 people coming into the hospital are testing positive. The test report comes back after they've been in the hospital for a while, if only in the ER.
Those presenting for other conditions, with no Covid symptoms, have by that time encountered various staff members who are not in full Covid-precautions mode. It's leading to an increase in cases among the staff, usually minor because staff are vaccinated. Even so, staff need to isolate for a minimum of 5 days, so even more staffing shortages are resulting.
There are a lot of moving parts to all of these systems, and new circumstances cause new complications/problems.
Another reason to stay away from the ER if you don't truly need to be there is the potential to contract Covid from fellow patients in the ER. Obviously, don't stay away if you have a serious medical problem. It's a balance of risks question.
Very true! If one doesn’t have Covid then there is a high chance of catching it by coming in. Everyone who has had a potential exposure or respiratory symptoms even if not Covid are lumped together in our Covid tent, because we can’t put them with the general population.
We are short staffed again tomorrow. It sucks. And patients complain so much about the wait times not realizing we get no breaks, bend over backwards for them, and put our health on the line. This pandemic has really made me lose faith in humanity as a whole.
My current stance is that hospitals should turn away unvaccinated patients and not offer testing. That should solve the CoVid hospital problem.
Why don’t hospitals have an online checking and waiting system? I know emergencies are just that, but what good does it do sitting in a room for 10 hours when you can stay at home until you can be seen?
The ER is for emergencies. By definition, you can't schedule an emergency. In your scenario you schedule time in an ER for something and 5 minutes before you get there 20 patients bleeding out from a school bus accident arrive with more on the way and 5 people involved in drive-by shooting show up. Then you are waiting again.
100% true2 -
The government in Italy passed an emergency law last week forcing everyone 50 years old or above to be vaccinated. COVID cases are exploding in the hospitals despite 86% of the population being vaxxed. 90% of those in intensive care are no-vax and over 50. We talked to a friend over the weekend that works in a nearby hospital. She said that the no-vaxxers are arriving in already desperate condition. By the time they reach the hospital it's almost too late. We have also noted that the ambulances are running like crazy in our area.
Masks are mandatory everywhere, even outdoors. Pff2's are required on public transport or any closed area. I see a high degree of mask compliance. It's rare to see an unmasked person walking around, sad to say they are usually young people, and that age group has COVID running rampant. Schools open today. Should be fun.14 -
My whole immediate family has tested COVID + last week. We had ordered RAT kits from CVS earlier in the week and they didn't arrive until Saturday, but we were pretty sure we all had it as I don't recall ever having all 4 of us sick at the same time. Took the tests on Saturday evening and it confirmed what we thought. My wife and I both took PCR tests on Friday at a drive through site, but haven't received those results yet.
We are all vaxed and my wife and I are also boosted. For the most part, this has been a non event for us thankfully, and I believe the vaccine has a lot do do with that. Here's our timeline:
Tuesday: wife called me in the early afternoon saying she was going home with a runny nose. She never really had anything more than that and it was over by Wednesday.
Wednesday: I started feeling somewhat poorly in the early evening on my commute home from work. I had felt perfectly fine throughout the day. By bed time I had developed a "head cold" and had a great deal of difficulty sleeping with all of the stuffiness.
Thursday: Bad head cold for me that continued to get worse throughout the day. I worked from home until about 3 PM and was exhausted at that point. By late afternoon I had a headache that wouldn't stop and weeping and burning eyes along with a great deal of congestion and sneezing and runny nose and a bit of a cough.
Friday: I was just as bad as I was late Thursday and took the day off to rest. My youngest son (9) had developed symptoms over the night Thursday and woke up with a temperature of 101.4, vomiting, sore throat, and congestion; he slept most of the day but started feeling much better by Friday evening, as did I. My oldest son (11) also developed symptoms Friday, but very mild...just some barely noticeable congestion (you can only really tell when he talked) and a scratchy throat, but not particularly sore. He didn't developed anything worse than that.
Saturday: We all woke up feeling pretty much recovered which was odd for me. I have enlarged sinuses and usually when I get a bad head cold it knocks me for a loop for at least a week and here I was feeling about 95% recovered. Still a bit nasally when I talk and a slight cough. My youngest who had it so bad on Friday seemed to be pretty much back to normal. Nasally when he talks, but he was out on the trampoline Saturday morning. Wife and oldest seemed 100% fine. I was able to get in a 3 mile walk, but I am still feeling some fatigue and a bit of burning in my lungs...I wanted to do a workout on Zwift but I don't think I would have made it through those intervals. We took our RAT Saturday evening and all popped...we put our kids tests in their keep sake boxes as I'm sure they'll be the ones with all of the stories to tell about these last two years.
Sunday: Pretty much status quo. Some lingering gunk for me and my youngest. I went for another walk.
Today: we all feel pretty much fine. I found out that I can't return to work until January 24 as my office still has a very archaic 14 days from positive test protocol in place...it has been in place since May of 2020 and they have apparently abandoned the science on this at this point. I'm going to give Zwift a go this afternoon and see where my cardio capacity is. I want to get into the weight room and I'm now past the timeframe per CDC guidance, but will likely wait until next week, at which point I will be going absolutely stir crazy working from home with my whole family here.
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Thanks for that ES&H, @cwolfman13
It's good to hear others' stories that are not horrible.
I hope all of us get through this with as little disruption as possible.
(eta: Experience, Strength and Hope)6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »My whole immediate family has tested COVID + last week. We had ordered RAT kits from CVS earlier in the week and they didn't arrive until Saturday, but we were pretty sure we all had it as I don't recall ever having all 4 of us sick at the same time. Took the tests on Saturday evening and it confirmed what we thought. My wife and I both took PCR tests on Friday at a drive through site, but haven't received those results yet.
We are all vaxed and my wife and I are also boosted. For the most part, this has been a non event for us thankfully, and I believe the vaccine has a lot do do with that. Here's our timeline:
Tuesday: wife called me in the early afternoon saying she was going home with a runny nose. She never really had anything more than that and it was over by Wednesday.
Wednesday: I started feeling somewhat poorly in the early evening on my commute home from work. I had felt perfectly fine throughout the day. By bed time I had developed a "head cold" and had a great deal of difficulty sleeping with all of the stuffiness.
Thursday: Bad head cold for me that continued to get worse throughout the day. I worked from home until about 3 PM and was exhausted at that point. By late afternoon I had a headache that wouldn't stop and weeping and burning eyes along with a great deal of congestion and sneezing and runny nose and a bit of a cough.
Friday: I was just as bad as I was late Thursday and took the day off to rest. My youngest son (9) had developed symptoms over the night Thursday and woke up with a temperature of 101.4, vomiting, sore throat, and congestion; he slept most of the day but started feeling much better by Friday evening, as did I. My oldest son (11) also developed symptoms Friday, but very mild...just some barely noticeable congestion (you can only really tell when he talked) and a scratchy throat, but not particularly sore. He didn't developed anything worse than that.
Saturday: We all woke up feeling pretty much recovered which was odd for me. I have enlarged sinuses and usually when I get a bad head cold it knocks me for a loop for at least a week and here I was feeling about 95% recovered. Still a bit nasally when I talk and a slight cough. My youngest who had it so bad on Friday seemed to be pretty much back to normal. Nasally when he talks, but he was out on the trampoline Saturday morning. Wife and oldest seemed 100% fine. I was able to get in a 3 mile walk, but I am still feeling some fatigue and a bit of burning in my lungs...I wanted to do a workout on Zwift but I don't think I would have made it through those intervals. We took our RAT Saturday evening and all popped...we put our kids tests in their keep sake boxes as I'm sure they'll be the ones with all of the stories to tell about these last two years.
Sunday: Pretty much status quo. Some lingering gunk for me and my youngest. I went for another walk.
Today: we all feel pretty much fine. I found out that I can't return to work until January 24 as my office still has a very archaic 14 days from positive test protocol in place...it has been in place since May of 2020 and they have apparently abandoned the science on this at this point. I'm going to give Zwift a go this afternoon and see where my cardio capacity is. I want to get into the weight room and I'm now past the timeframe per CDC guidance, but will likely wait until next week, at which point I will be going absolutely stir crazy working from home with my whole family here.
My brother had a mild case. He never felt bad but one night was wheezing & had trouble breathing. He has well controlled asthma so that was a bit scary. But he was still XC skiing in a state park well away from anyone else for a few miles every day through the whole thing. FWIW, he said elevating his HR and breathing deeply made his lungs feel better. Hope you're back to normal and killing it on Zwift.3 -
Seems it may be a fluid situation, or dependent on location. I received an email today regarding the North Texas VA. It says, in part, "Our clinics and our emergency department are NOT testing sites for COVID-19. We will NOT test non-emergent or asymptomatic outpatients for COVID-19, unless our staff deems it clinically necessary."kshama2001 wrote: »Last month, my mom was wondering how we'd go about getting tested if we developed symptoms. I don't have to worry about this - I'm with the VA. (Of course I looked into testing for the rest of them.)
When I joined the USAF in the late 80s, healthcare benefits were furthest from my mind, but I'm so glad I have them now. Sure, I have my complaints, especially when it comes to female-specific care, but during this pandemic I am so glad to be with the VA.
I was there regularly last year for this and that, and am not seeing crowds or hearing about burnout.
In many ways, VA healthcare is an example of socialized medicine.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-socialized-medicine-2615267
"...While scandals arise from how the VA provides care, it is a measure of how the VA is accountable to the public, while private healthcare organizations do not have to be transparent."
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TX_Bluebonnet wrote: »
Seems it may be a fluid situation, or dependent on location. I received an email today regarding the North Texas VA. It says, in part, "Our clinics and our emergency department are NOT testing sites for COVID-19. We will NOT test non-emergent or asymptomatic outpatients for COVID-19, unless our staff deems it clinically necessary."kshama2001 wrote: »Last month, my mom was wondering how we'd go about getting tested if we developed symptoms. I don't have to worry about this - I'm with the VA. (Of course I looked into testing for the rest of them.)
When I joined the USAF in the late 80s, healthcare benefits were furthest from my mind, but I'm so glad I have them now. Sure, I have my complaints, especially when it comes to female-specific care, but during this pandemic I am so glad to be with the VA.
I was there regularly last year for this and that, and am not seeing crowds or hearing about burnout.
In many ways, VA healthcare is an example of socialized medicine.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-socialized-medicine-2615267
"...While scandals arise from how the VA provides care, it is a measure of how the VA is accountable to the public, while private healthcare organizations do not have to be transparent."
I don't have a quibble with the VA not testing non-emergent or asymptomatic outpatients. Mom was wondering what to do if we DID develop symptoms.3 -
@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…1 -
allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
Well yes, But what is currently causing overcrowded hospitals? Has there ever been a time it's been this bad and the medical professionals have been stretched this thin? Shouldn't they address the origin of this issue? And if more people were having mild cases as opposed to life-threatening lung problems, the hospitals wouldn't be filling up their ICU's, etc.
And statistics show if a person's been fully vaccinated, most likely their symptoms will be milder. And people are still refusing to get the vaccine, some with legit reasons but my guess is most are not.
JMO
ETA: I realize vaccines still aren't a 100% guarantee of anything; they never were and never will be. But nobody can argue the fact that they do help. Numbers don't lie.8 -
Our hospitals are filling up with unvaccinated people. I work in the hospital and see this firsthand.16
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allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?11 -
Idk where you are getting your stats but mine read that hospital admissions have pretty much leveled like a plateau.1
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Idk where you are getting your stats but mine read that hospital admissions have pretty much leveled like a plateau.
There are literally a ton of articles just like this one...
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/omicron-pushes-us-covid-hospitalizations-toward-record-high-2022-01-07/
As per my own states DOH stats, hospitalizations have surged well beyond any previous record for a given period.5 -
Idk where you are getting your stats but mine read that hospital admissions have pretty much leveled like a plateau.
I use this: https://covidactnow.org/
you can look by state, county, and metro area for larger cities8 -
Idk where you are getting your stats but mine read that hospital admissions have pretty much leveled like a plateau.
Here Covid patient admissions tripled in less than a week. The hospital itself reports 102% bed occupancy so, yeah, I guess that will level out when they can't stick any more beds in hallways.9 -
allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
Well yes, But what is currently causing overcrowded hospitals? Has there ever been a time it's been this bad and the medical professionals have been stretched this thin? Shouldn't they address the origin of this issue? And if more people were having mild cases as opposed to life-threatening lung problems, the hospitals wouldn't be filling up their ICU's, etc. And statistics show if a person's been fully vaccinated, most likely their symptoms will be milder. And people are still refusing to get the vaccine, some with legit reasons but my guess is most are not.
JMO
ETA: I realize vaccines still aren't a 100% guarantee of anything; they never were and never will be. But nobody can argue the fact that they do help. Numbers don't lie.
Unfortunately, people don’t want to get vaccinated. We need to accept this and find a better solution…6 -
allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrators make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!7 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrators make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!
There’s this little thing called the Hippocratic oath which prevents doctors from picking and choosing who to care for based on merit. Guy tries to blow his own brains out, doctor ethically has to try to fix it if he can.
But yeah. I feel those who reject modern medicine should have to live with the ramifications of that choice. Particularly since some of these conspiracy theorists have accused hospitals of murdering patients by pouring fluid into their lungs during ventilation, then claiming it was covid. Why should anyone trying to help have to put up with that kind of insanity!10 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrat,ors make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, , tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!
Sure. It wasn't really you I was asking, though: The question was more about the handwaving generalities in a PP.
I don't think your suggestion will fly, legally, but it's a tempting fantasy . . . and quite specific. 😉
Personally, I think "they" are mostly doing what can be done, realistically, within the overall constraints of complicated interacting (and even conflicting) factors, including legal constraints that are often not obvious to people not professionals in the relevant field(s). I'm glad I don't have those jobs "they" have.
I just tend to 🙄 at "they should just fix X problem" kinds of assertions, especially when an unspoken aspect of it is ". . . so I or my friends don't personally have to be inconvenienced, blamed, be made to feel uncomfortable, blah blah blah". I don't feel like you've really taken that approach in this thread.4 -
rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrators make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!
There’s this little thing called the Hippocratic oath which prevents doctors from picking and choosing who to care for based on merit. Guy tries to blow his own brains out, doctor ethically has to try to fix it if he can.
But yeah. I feel those who reject modern medicine should have to live with the ramifications of that choice. Particularly since some of these conspiracy theorists have accused hospitals of murdering patients by pouring fluid into their lungs during ventilation, then claiming it was covid. Why should anyone trying to help have to put up with that kind of insanity!
They refuse alcoholics a liver transplant unless they stop drinking, right? Hospitals have been turning away patients anyway after they are full. It's just a question of which patients are turned away... The last to arrive or the unvaccinated?
Edit to add what it looks like when they just take every patient until full:
6 -
Here's something that I do not understand... An employee where I work was sick and took a home test on Fri., Came up positive. He was very sick on Mon. and went to the Dr. where he tested positive and was given a note saying he can go back to work in 3 days. When did the standard become 3 days?! It is 5 days for positive when asymptomatic, but this person is NOT asymptomatic at all. WTF?!5
-
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Here's something that I do not understand... An employee where I work was sick and took a home test on Fri., Came up positive. He was very sick on Mon. and went to the Dr. where he tested positive and was given a note saying he can go back to work in 3 days. When did the standard become 3 days?! It is 5 days for positive when asymptomatic, but this person is NOT asymptomatic at all. WTF?!
I can do you one better. California, due to nursing shortages, has just said that nurses who test positive can still work if they wear masks. Not nurses who are EXPOSED, nurses who actually have covid. Caring for patients, who might or might not have covid.4 -
allother94 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
Well yes, But what is currently causing overcrowded hospitals? Has there ever been a time it's been this bad and the medical professionals have been stretched this thin? Shouldn't they address the origin of this issue? And if more people were having mild cases as opposed to life-threatening lung problems, the hospitals wouldn't be filling up their ICU's, etc. And statistics show if a person's been fully vaccinated, most likely their symptoms will be milder. And people are still refusing to get the vaccine, some with legit reasons but my guess is most are not.
JMO
ETA: I realize vaccines still aren't a 100% guarantee of anything; they never were and never will be. But nobody can argue the fact that they do help. Numbers don't lie.
Unfortunately, people don’t want to get vaccinated. We need to accept this and find a better solution…
This reminds me of the joke about someone knowing that God will save him from rising flood waters. So he ignores the evacuation orders. When the roads are impassible he waves off a boat rescue. Water keeps rising forcing him onto his roof yet he refuses a helicopter rescue. Eventually he perishes and asks God why He didn’t save him. God responds, “I tried. I sent a warning, a boat and a helicopter. You didn’t accept being saved.”
Point is vaccines are the “better solution.” We need to accept that and avail ourselves of the lifesaving medical miracle that they are. The other ways to reduce transmission—masking, testing, distancing, closing gathering places— aren’t 100% effective either, and closing/limiting businesses has more negative consequences for the economy and people’s livelihoods. Obviously people are resisting those measures, too.11 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrators make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!
There’s this little thing called the Hippocratic oath which prevents doctors from picking and choosing who to care for based on merit. Guy tries to blow his own brains out, doctor ethically has to try to fix it if he can.
But yeah. I feel those who reject modern medicine should have to live with the ramifications of that choice. Particularly since some of these conspiracy theorists have accused hospitals of murdering patients by pouring fluid into their lungs during ventilation, then claiming it was covid. Why should anyone trying to help have to put up with that kind of insanity!
They refuse alcoholics a liver transplant unless they stop drinking, right? Hospitals have been turning away patients anyway after they are full. It's just a question of which patients are turned away... The last to arrive or the unvaccinated?
Edit to add what it looks like when they just take every patient until full:
90% of our ICU beds in Rome are unvaxxed. Many parts of the country have intensive care full. They may have to start deciding who to try and save again, this in Naples.6 -
allother94 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
Well yes, But what is currently causing overcrowded hospitals? Has there ever been a time it's been this bad and the medical professionals have been stretched this thin? Shouldn't they address the origin of this issue? And if more people were having mild cases as opposed to life-threatening lung problems, the hospitals wouldn't be filling up their ICU's, etc. And statistics show if a person's been fully vaccinated, most likely their symptoms will be milder. And people are still refusing to get the vaccine, some with legit reasons but my guess is most are not.
JMO
ETA: I realize vaccines still aren't a 100% guarantee of anything; they never were and never will be. But nobody can argue the fact that they do help. Numbers don't lie.
Unfortunately, people don’t want to get vaccinated. We need to accept this and find a better solution…
This reminds me of the joke about someone knowing that God will save him from rising flood waters. So he ignores the evacuation orders. When the roads are impassible he waves off a boat rescue. Water keeps rising forcing him onto his roof yet he refuses a helicopter rescue. Eventually he perishes and asks God why He didn’t save him. God responds, “I tried. I sent a warning, a boat and a helicopter. You didn’t accept being saved.”
Point is vaccines are the “better solution.” We need to accept that and avail ourselves of the lifesaving medical miracle that they are. The other ways to reduce transmission—masking, testing, distancing, closing gathering places— aren’t 100% effective either, and closing/limiting businesses has more negative consequences for the economy and people’s livelihoods. Obviously people are resisting those measures, too.
Well said!
I still cannot believe the numbers of people not masking up anymore. What gives with that; such a simple thing to do. I realize if you're vaccinated chances are better you'll get a lesser case. BUT you're still contagious and maybe the next person you pass it to, won't be as lucky?? All the stores now have signs saying 'if you're not vaccinated please wear a mask'. How about, 'we require masks or no admittance'? That way everyone protects themselves and each other in the process.
SMH9 -
rheddmobile wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »Here's something that I do not understand... An employee where I work was sick and took a home test on Fri., Came up positive. He was very sick on Mon. and went to the Dr. where he tested positive and was given a note saying he can go back to work in 3 days. When did the standard become 3 days?! It is 5 days for positive when asymptomatic, but this person is NOT asymptomatic at all. WTF?!
I can do you one better. California, due to nursing shortages, has just said that nurses who test positive can still work if they wear masks. Not nurses who are EXPOSED, nurses who actually have covid. Caring for patients, who might or might not have covid.
Yes, I heard this on Sun. and thought that was crazy.1 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
When someone says "They say" or "They should", without further amplifying, I wonder who the heck "they" are.
So, who is the "they" who should address the overcrowding of hospitals, and how should they do that, specifically - what are your ideas?
I suspect that public health authorities and governmental officials - here in the US, dunno where you are - believe that they are trying to address the overcrowding of hospitals by forming support teams of military members and sending them out to help staff hospitals, helping to build/equip auxiliary facilities where staffing is less the constraint, trying to limit exposures in less economically vital sectors or in less economically destructive ways (mask mandates, vaccination requirements, limiting crowding in social situations, etc.) . . . and telling people who aren't vaccinated to get vaccinated so they stop being the overwhelmingly largest group now overcrowding the hospitals.
If it's hospital administrators who are "they", I suspect they believe they're trying to address the overcrowding by converting wards that aren't usually infectious disease wards to wards for Covid patients, hiring traveling staff at exorbitant pay rates, eliminating elective surgeries (which aren't all trivial things!) to free up staff and space, requiring staff to be vaccinated to avoid further short-staffing from more-rampant sickness and the resulting absenteeism among staff, rededicating administrative staff to things like cleaning duties (yes, that's happening, in some places near me), and much more.
What are your ideas for what more "they" should do, to address hospital overcrowding, that's actionable and realistic?
Shouldn't "we" do our part, by getting vaccinated, avoiding truly unnecessary ER visits, and that sort of thing?
My suggestion is that hospital administrators make a policy that no unvaccinated Covid patients are accepted once the ICU or the hospital as a whole are at 90% capacity. That's generous, tbh... Probably should just be no unvaccinated patients at all (even non-Covid patients).
Edit: Is that specific enough?!
Should they not admit long time smokers with smoking related illnesses either? How about someone who wrecks their car or motorcycle driving 125 MPH, etc.
After all they made choices too.
Slippery slope.8 -
allother94 wrote: »allother94 wrote: »@allother94,
It's mind boggling that people are still not choosing to get vaccinated. They must be seeing all of this play out?? But instead of turning unvaccinated people away at the hospitals, why don't they turn them away everywhere else? Maybe it'd force their hand a bit more. JMO
They say the problem with the spread is overcrowding hospitals. If that really is the problem, then that is what they should address…
Well yes, But what is currently causing overcrowded hospitals? Has there ever been a time it's been this bad and the medical professionals have been stretched this thin? Shouldn't they address the origin of this issue? And if more people were having mild cases as opposed to life-threatening lung problems, the hospitals wouldn't be filling up their ICU's, etc. And statistics show if a person's been fully vaccinated, most likely their symptoms will be milder. And people are still refusing to get the vaccine, some with legit reasons but my guess is most are not.
JMO
ETA: I realize vaccines still aren't a 100% guarantee of anything; they never were and never will be. But nobody can argue the fact that they do help. Numbers don't lie.
Unfortunately, people don’t want to get vaccinated. We need to accept this and find a better solution…
This reminds me of the joke about someone knowing that God will save him from rising flood waters. So he ignores the evacuation orders. When the roads are impassible he waves off a boat rescue. Water keeps rising forcing him onto his roof yet he refuses a helicopter rescue. Eventually he perishes and asks God why He didn’t save him. God responds, “I tried. I sent a warning, a boat and a helicopter. You didn’t accept being saved.”
Point is vaccines are the “better solution.” We need to accept that and avail ourselves of the lifesaving medical miracle that they are. The other ways to reduce transmission—masking, testing, distancing, closing gathering places— aren’t 100% effective either, and closing/limiting businesses has more negative consequences for the economy and people’s livelihoods. Obviously people are resisting those measures, too.
Well said!
I still cannot believe the numbers of people not masking up anymore. What gives with that; such a simple thing to do. I realize if you're vaccinated chances are better you'll get a lesser case. BUT you're still contagious and maybe the next person you pass it to, won't be as lucky?? All the stores now have signs saying 'if you're not vaccinated please wear a mask'. How about, 'we require masks or no admittance'? That way everyone protects themselves and each other in the process.
SMH
All the Massachusetts stores I have been recently now have signs requiring masks. What I do not know is whether they actively enforce this.1
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