Coronavirus prep
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They are interviewing medical workers every day here. The plea is unanimous. They know how, and are protecting themselves, on the job, and are doing a fantastic job. There’s just too many covid patients. ICU’s and ER’s are being inundated with covid patients. They are pleading with the public to practice safety measures in public. Wear face coverings, social distancing etc.
They need us all to follow guidelines to lessen the spread.
I try to understand and accept others points of view, on this, but, it just doesn’t make sense.10 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I’m really struck by the general tone of this thread. I don’t think people realize how hospitals and ICUs are run in general. I worked as an RN in a telemetry unit, which is a step down from ICU. Every single year during the flu season, the hospital filled up, as did the ICU. It was not unusual to people to come into the ER, and either have to wait 12-24 hours because there were no beds available or even the hospital would direct ambulances away, because they were full. There were many times when the ICU was full and so they would send the patient who needed to be in the ICU onto the telemetry unit with a ICU nurse to take care of them.
This was a normal occurrence in a city with a large number of hospitals.
They didn’t just send patients out on their own and say “Oh well!”.
I do get annoyed when I hear non medical people really freaking out about full hospitals and ICUs, as though this just shows this is the end of the world. This always happens every year. COVID is just highlighting the real problems with the system. Hospitals operate to maximize their profits. They don’t want empty beds sitting around. If there are too many for too long, they either cut staff or offer new services.
A real part of this problem is the way hospitals are run. They are operating on a knife’s edge for profit. Not once have I heard this being addressed. Even in normal times, RNs have a burnout time of about 2 years because they are so overworked. So when I hear people freaking out about how nurses are overworked, it’s nothing new.
Full hospitals and overworked nurses are not shocking things. Of course it’s worse than normal, but but definitely not shocking.
Thanks for saying it so well3 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I’m really struck by the general tone of this thread. I don’t think people realize how hospitals and ICUs are run in general. I worked as an RN in a telemetry unit, which is a step down from ICU. Every single year during the flu season, the hospital filled up, as did the ICU. It was not unusual to people to come into the ER, and either have to wait 12-24 hours because there were no beds available or even the hospital would direct ambulances away, because they were full. There were many times when the ICU was full and so they would send the patient who needed to be in the ICU onto the telemetry unit with a ICU nurse to take care of them.
This was a normal occurrence in a city with a large number of hospitals.
They didn’t just send patients out on their own and say “Oh well!”.
I do get annoyed when I hear non medical people really freaking out about full hospitals and ICUs, as though this just shows this is the end of the world. This always happens every year. COVID is just highlighting the real problems with the system. Hospitals operate to maximize their profits. They don’t want empty beds sitting around. If there are too many for too long, they either cut staff or offer new services.
A real part of this problem is the way hospitals are run. They are operating on a knife’s edge for profit. Not once have I heard this being addressed. Even in normal times, RNs have a burnout time of about 2 years because they are so overworked. So when I hear people freaking out about how nurses are overworked, it’s nothing new.
Full hospitals and overworked nurses are not shocking things. Of course it’s worse than normal, but but definitely not shocking.
Thanks for that input. I think the fact that the flu season is just getting started in the US makes this especially worrisome, for both patients and healthcare workers. I have a number of students who work in healthcare, and I know the demands can be overwhelming.3 -
Absolutely! That’s my point. It’s not that Covid is not overwhelming, but that healthcare in normal times is overwhelming.
Case in point, I used to pray desperately every time I walked into the hospital for a shift that I wouldn’t kill someone by missing something because I was so rushed. I never did, and was told by multiple physicians and nurses that I was a good nurse, but it was so easy to have done, plus I saw so much suffering, physical and mental that I knew I could alleviate but I simply didn’t have time, although I never took a full lunch break and certainly never shorter breaks.
Even a smaller increase of patients would overwhelm such a system, much less something like Covid.7 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »I just typed a long response and it got lost.
I’m not sure why people are responding as though I said that Covid is normal, because I didn’t. I said it’s worse than than normal.
However it is true that hospitals are full and nurses are overworked every winter. Every winter, patients receive less than ideal care and are sent home too early because their bed is needed for someone else. Not every patient, but enough to make me quit nursing because of it.
COVID did not cause these problems in the healthcare system. They have existed for many years. I left nursing years ago because of them. What it has done, is magnify them.
Any significant new disease was bound to showcase these already existing problems. And it has. But they existed long before Covid reared its ugly head. The magnitude of these problems is concerning, but that these problems exist is not new.
I don't think anyone was arguing that our (US) health care system was great and Covid wrecked it. What I think most would acknowledge is that our system was not prepared for a crisis and was already failing a lot of people.8 -
gracegettingittogether wrote: »Absolutely! That’s my point. It’s not that Covid is not overwhelming, but that healthcare in normal times is overwhelming.
Case in point, I used to pray desperately every time I walked into the hospital for a shift that I wouldn’t kill someone by missing something because I was so rushed. I never did, and was told by multiple physicians and nurses that I was a good nurse, but it was so easy to have done, plus I saw so much suffering, physical and mental that I knew I could alleviate but I simply didn’t have time, although I never took a full lunch break and certainly never shorter breaks.
Even a smaller increase of patients would overwhelm such a system, much less something like Covid.
OK, now I think I understand where you're coming from, and that makes sense.
I read your initial post (rather casually, probably, I admit), and thought you were saying "this is no big deal, it happens regularly", which is something a lot of non-medical people around me seem to be saying to minimize the seriousness of the situation. From replies, I suspect some others read it the same way.
Since you've clarified, it sounds more like "our health system was already bursting at the seams during local peaks, so that's not a new thing". That makes sense.
I'm not an expert, but one current thing that does seem somewhat novel to me is that so many hospitals in so many places are simultaneously peaking capacity with Covid patients, so that some of the usual-times safety valves (inter-hospital transfers, deferring non-crisis procedures, etc.) aren't working. I have read about specific hospitals/systems sending people home with oxygen, people whom they'd normally admit, though I have no direct personal knowledge to confirm the reports.
I can't even begin to imagine how difficult and stressful your job is during *normal* circumstances. I've been in hospitals (as a patient or family caregiver) in the past more than I'd like to have needed to be, including in ICUs, and it's been clear that the nursing staff is overworked and distracted, despite being kind, energetic, and dedicated people, i.e., that there is understaffing. Adding peak loads, with a challenging still-novel illness . . . mega unimaginable.
Sending gratitude, and beaming strength-rays from my safe perch on the couch.
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I am on a COVID taskforce committee and at our last conference call, the hospitals said that they expect a peak starting today and into the first part of next week. They can't take anymore patients, so they will have to resort to treating them in the hallway once they are brought by ambulance with oxygen or whatever therapy to help them breathe, then they will have to be transported back home and hope they don't get any worse. The concern with the city is that it will create 2 ambulance calls per patient, one to take them to the hospital, then go back hours later to pick them up after they have had treatment to bring them home. Scary.13
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So for a while we were saying that the death rates were declining because we were understanding how to treat this better. The death rates seem to be climbing like crazy. Why are the treatments not working or are there just that many more people that are sick?3
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SummerSkier wrote: »So for a while we were saying that the death rates were declining because we were understanding how to treat this better. The death rates seem to be climbing like crazy. Why are the treatments not working or are there just that many more people that are sick?
My understanding: It's that so many more people are sick.
The morality rate (the chance of dying if you get it) is going down, while the deaths caused by Covid (the number of people actually dying) aren't connected in a pure way. The morality rate can go down, but if your infection rate is skyrocketing your deaths will still go up.
Better treatment and prevention should be happening together, but many seem to have given up completely on the second part.9 -
I read your initial post (rather casually, probably, I admit), and thought you were saying "this is no big deal, it happens regularly", which is something a lot of non-medical people around me seem to be saying to minimize the seriousness of the situation. From replies, I suspect some others read it the same way.
Yes, I did, especially since I recalled some earlier posts about how we were overreacting to covid with the shutdowns (long after pretty much everything seemed to have reopened, for the most part), so read it in that light.
Glad I was wrong.Since you've clarified, it sounds more like "our health system was already bursting at the seams during local peaks, so that's not a new thing". That makes sense.
Agreed, although what I've read suggests things are significantly worse and patients who otherwise would get care are potentially not going to be able to get it in a new way, some places, so I do think that aspect is a new or different thing from how it normally is.I'm not an expert, but one current thing that does seem somewhat novel to me is that so many hospitals in so many places are simultaneously peaking capacity with Covid patients, so that some of the usual-times safety valves (inter-hospital transfers, deferring non-crisis procedures, etc.) aren't working. I have read about specific hospitals/systems sending people home with oxygen, people whom they'd normally admit, though I have no direct personal knowledge to confirm the reports.
Yes, this.1 -
I should have waited to this afternoon to update but I forgot it was Wednesday and that is when everything gets updated and the Governor makes his weekly statement.
5,853 new cases
98 new deaths
36 counties in red (highest we have)
https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/indiana-had-highest-covid-19-infection-rate-in-us-after-thanksgiving/
So what changes are our wonderful Governor making? /s
- Hospitals are to cancel any non emergency procedures
- Lowered maximum number of people allowed to gather (a whole 50 people allowed at orange and 25 at red)
- Some limiting of sports at the high school and college level, but they are still allowed to play WITH people watching
Yea... that is it. We have the highest rate in the US after Thanksgiving, but no real restrictions.10 -
I've seen plenty of articles about the questions healthcare workers must consider when they decide which patients they don't treat... which patients they are going to send home to die. That's not something I've seen before from any flu season.9
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T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I've seen plenty of articles about the questions healthcare workers must consider when they decide which patients they don't treat... which patients they are going to send home to die. That's not something I've seen before from any flu season.
Curious. Do we know that those patients being sent home are being triaged in such a way that they are being sent home to die? Or could it be that they are the most mild cases? Or that it is just bad luck that they are arriving when no beds are available?1 -
I feel almost guilty posting this and hope it doesnt come across as smug and I know things can change quickly - but South Australia now has zero active cases.
Several other states of Australia also at zero and all are low numbers and improving.
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I should have waited to this afternoon to update but I forgot it was Wednesday and that is when everything gets updated and the Governor makes his weekly statement.
5,853 new cases
98 new deaths
36 counties in red (highest we have)
https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/indiana-had-highest-covid-19-infection-rate-in-us-after-thanksgiving/
So what changes are our wonderful Governor making? /s
- Hospitals are to cancel any non emergency procedures
- Lowered maximum number of people allowed to gather (a whole 50 people allowed at orange and 25 at red)
- Some limiting of sports at the high school and college level, but they are still allowed to play WITH people watching
Yea... that is it. We have the highest rate in the US after Thanksgiving, but no real restrictions.
And here in South Australia where we have no active cases: private gatherings just getting lifted from 10 to 50, sports still limited and spectators capacity limited, limits on numbers for weddings, funerals, restaurants, clubs , shops etc, every organisation must have a covid safe plan ( how they will provide sanitiser, enforce social distancing etc) masks must be worn in all health care settings by everyone over 12 years ( some exceptions eg people with dementia) everyone going to any organised place eg clubs, cafes, dr's surgeries etc - basically anywhere beyond quick in and out purchases and private homes, must sign in with smart phone code or manual handwriting.
Elective surgery is continuing
Such a contrast.
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missysippy930 wrote: »They are interviewing medical workers every day here. The plea is unanimous. They know how, and are protecting themselves, on the job, and are doing a fantastic job. There’s just too many covid patients. ICU’s and ER’s are being inundated with covid patients. They are pleading with the public to practice safety measures in public. Wear face coverings, social distancing etc.
They need us all to follow guidelines to lessen the spread.
I try to understand and accept others points of view, on this, but, it just doesn’t make sense.
Rural hospitals locally are planning their Covid tent wards.5 -
paperpudding wrote: »I feel almost guilty posting this and hope it doesnt come across as smug and I know things can change quickly - but South Australia now has zero active cases.
Several other states of Australia also at zero and all are low numbers and improving.
Many US states have restrictions in place. Whether or not their being strictly enforced, is questionable. A handful of US states still don’t have face covering edicts.
No need for you to feel guilt. It’s a very important contrast that should be pointed out. It may convince others to come to realize how covid policies can, and have, affected the spread.
The striking contrasts between our two countries, how this was handled by leaders from the beginning, are clear, and the resulting repercussions of policies obvious.
To me, the scariest thing about COVID-19 is the continuing denial of the seriousness of this.18 -
paperpudding wrote: »I feel almost guilty posting this and hope it doesnt come across as smug and I know things can change quickly - but South Australia now has zero active cases.
Several other states of Australia also at zero and all are low numbers and improving.
Don't feel guilty. Sadly in the US it is all a political game with no one actually caring about the people. Today or yesterday (I can't double check) was one of the highest single day number of deaths in the US. But you still have people and politicians sayings it's a hoax, it's not that bad, not wanting to wear masks or stay home. I hate it.
I am just so tired of it. The depression was real yesterday. Today has not started out that much better. I am so damn scared to even walk down to get my mail anymore. Not sure how much more I can handle.23 -
T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I've seen plenty of articles about the questions healthcare workers must consider when they decide which patients they don't treat... which patients they are going to send home to die. That's not something I've seen before from any flu season.
Curious. Do we know that those patients being sent home are being triaged in such a way that they are being sent home to die? Or could it be that they are the most mild cases? Or that it is just bad luck that they are arriving when no beds are available?
If you're being sent home and dying of Covid, it seems reasonable to assume that you are not one of the "most mild" cases unless "mild case" has taken on a whole new meaning of which I'm unaware.
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janejellyroll wrote: »T1DCarnivoreRunner wrote: »I've seen plenty of articles about the questions healthcare workers must consider when they decide which patients they don't treat... which patients they are going to send home to die. That's not something I've seen before from any flu season.
Curious. Do we know that those patients being sent home are being triaged in such a way that they are being sent home to die? Or could it be that they are the most mild cases? Or that it is just bad luck that they are arriving when no beds are available?
If you're being sent home and dying of Covid, it seems reasonable to assume that you are not one of the "most mild" cases unless "mild case" has taken on a whole new meaning of which I'm unaware.
@janejellyroll My comment was referencing the specific phrase of "send home to die". My interpretation of that phrase is an intentional act like the person is being deemed too much work to warrant the effort and therefore being sent home where they are expected to die. Your comment is along the alternate interpretation of "send them home where they happen to die" and of course the subset of people sent home that end up dying are of course not the mild cases but it could be that they were sent home because they were not expected to die, but did. I was trying to find our from @T1DCarnivoreRunner whether his phrasing was the intentional act, as it reads, and that hopeless cases are being triaged to be sent home to die, or are they mild cases with unexpected deaths.
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