Keto and Fasting has been amazing thus far.
Poobah1972
Posts: 943 Member
Good Morning all...
I'm only on week 6 of my new way of life (At least that's what were telling our selves. And I have to say I believe it.)
My fiancé is on week 7. Were both adopted a more strict form of Keto than we have in the past which basically means absolutely no "real" bread, pasta etc... Where in the past we would enjoy one Wonder bread Thin sliced toast with breakfast and perhaps a few table spoons of pasta and an occasional half of small-medium potato. Absolutely no fruit, but at least a serving of berries minimum 5 days a week. It seems in the past, allowing us such small refined/simple carbs would invariably lead us to allow more and more things, until things just got out of hand.
We do though allow us a higher carb count meal a few times a week.. But when I say higher were talking 10-15ish tops, usually in the form of a low carb pizza, or Cabbage Lasagna or some other recipe we come up with.
I have in the range of 200+ pounds to lose starting out... and my fiancé has around 100 to loose. (and she's only 4'7")
Given the above and our general love of calorie dense food... This diet continues to be one that is more or less easy for us and allows us to eat all the foods we love so much. (with some obvious exceptions).
I firmly believe those of us with such a tremendous amount of weight to lose, don't really need to listen to the suggested amount of calories I need to eat per day. Personally I'm very satisfied and rarely hungry eating 1500-1800 calories per day, and sometimes less depending on the choices of that day. (yesterday I was only at 1350ish). My fiancé is eating somewhere in the area of 1200-1500 per day. Where MFP tells me I should be eating about 3440 calories a day.. (I just couldn't imagine eating that the way i feel now.)
With my first 2 weeks under my belt... And after doing a bit of research, My fiancé and I both decided to do something neither of us every considered before..... and that was Fasting.
So before we started, I ordered a Keto-Mojo blood Ketone and Glucose monitor... And for the past 3 Sundays, we didn't eat a thing between supper time Saturday and Monday morning Breakfast (36 hours). And this weekend past, since I had Monday off and my fiancé worked, I extended my fast to 48 hours till Monday Supper time when my fiancé got home from work.
So how has fasting been going? To my surprise, it was way easier then I had expected.
As i know from blood testing, Both my wife and I have been in ketosis steadily (day in day out and without fail)... I assume since our bodies are already in a state of ketosis, our bodies just don't really care that we stopped eating as they just continue to burn fat for energy as they do on none fasting days. Sure we get a little hungry, but a few drinks of water quickly quite the grumbling and by about mid afternoon of the fast day, those grumbling practically disappear. And oddly it seems, as soon as you lay down for bed, all feelings of hunger 100% disappear and personally I sleep like a baby and wake the next morning with no particular hunger. The morning before "Break-Fast" my ketone readings are upward of 2.5+ and my blood sugar ranges between 100-110. (normally 110-140 on any other day of the week.... And yes 140 being on keto has me a little concerned that I may be pre-diabetic, but I'm not about to eat some carbs to see what happens at this point).
Basically, going into a fast produces no ill feeling what so ever. Life is just normal.
Energy is fantastic 7 days a week. And now that we don't have to prepare meals, eat meals, or clean up after meals... Sunday has become chore day, where we pick tasks to complete just because when you have so much time on your hands... Let's face it, things can get boring really quick. So all in all, we actually get more exercise on Sundays now, and were getting stuff done around the house which is great.
Weight is just flying off for both of us. Unfortunately I'm still to big to get a reading off a scale... But clothes wise, mobility wise, energy wise, face wise, upper body wise, behind the steering wheel wise it all becomes quite obvious. Doing some quick math, I suspect I'm loosing 5-6 pounds of fat per week. Lynn on the other hand, has lost 10 pounds in her first 4 weeks... But I suspect since fasting she will be averaging 1.5 to 1.66 pounds per week. Lynn only weighs in every 4 weeks, so another week and a half to go and she's quite excited to step on the scale, as people at her work and mine are all noticing the change already.
Things are going so well... We are both looking forward to the next long weekend that we both have off, as we will likely extend our long weekend fast to 60 hours (This coming Easter).
So that's about it... I just wanted to put it out there. In the past I would put Fasting in the "Crazy people" group. But now, It seems silly I never considered it before. Our bodies store fat for a reason, and that reason is to use it when it's needed. We both got lots to use, so we are going to do just that. And being in Ketosis 24/7 makes transitioning into and out of a fast a real breeze. As for Starvation mode... I don't believe this is something one needs to worry about, when one is very overweight.
Anyone thinking of doing keto and fasting... I will state a few things I do religiously as I know it just makes life easier on me during keto.
1. I always have Metamucil at breakfast. This ensures I never get bunged up, that can sometimes happen on keto. Although I do get a fairly decent amount of fiber each day. This has also cured my fiancé of IBS she's been dealing with for 15 years. So I have been drinking it with her every morning in support of her regardless of keto. (As she wouldn't of stuck with it without me beside her every morning)
2. I always take a Calcium Supplement (currently with Vitamin D and Magnesium) and a Multi-Vitamin with breakfast... As I think it's a wise decision.
3. I always take a potassium supplement with breakfast. Normally this far into a low carb diet and particularly a strict keto, I would be experiencing muscle cramping issues by now... Particularly in my lower calves and sometimes in my back or feet. Stretching, would be always be touch and go. I'm very happy to report I have had absolutely no such inclinations this time around. This is big in my book.
4. On fasting days, first thing in the morning and in leu of not taking the items above as I'm not eating.... I take a Keto friendly Electrolyte Hydrator as my body is dumping Electrolytes pretty hard core on fasting days. The current product I'm using is Vega Sport Electrolyte Hydrator... And thus far it seems to be effective.
5. Drink a lot of water... Personally I'm drinking 4-5 liters of water on fasting days. and 3-4 on non-fasting days. Water is even more important when on Keto, and following a severe calorie deficit. Past experience tells me, if I don't drink this much water, uric acid will build up to the point that Gout can onset. If I drink the water, I will pass uric acid and never reach concentrations that cause the formation of uric crystals (the cause of gout).
So that's about it... I realize particularly with item 5, some might think that eating this far under my MFP calorie target I'm likely also breaking down protein/muscle in my body which would explain past experiences with gout. And I have to agree that is probably happening. However as the weight comes off, I also don't need to be strong enough to lug a nearly 500 pound self to multiple grocery stores every Saturday (as I have been forever). I can definitely stand to loose some muscle as I transition. Besides, as the weight comes off, I automatically become more active, as a jump slowly creeps into each step.
I'm hoping someone out there might find this post useful, and I'm also very interested in anyone's stories regarding fasting, and particularly Fasting while following a ketogenic diet.
WOOT WOOT!
I'm only on week 6 of my new way of life (At least that's what were telling our selves. And I have to say I believe it.)
My fiancé is on week 7. Were both adopted a more strict form of Keto than we have in the past which basically means absolutely no "real" bread, pasta etc... Where in the past we would enjoy one Wonder bread Thin sliced toast with breakfast and perhaps a few table spoons of pasta and an occasional half of small-medium potato. Absolutely no fruit, but at least a serving of berries minimum 5 days a week. It seems in the past, allowing us such small refined/simple carbs would invariably lead us to allow more and more things, until things just got out of hand.
We do though allow us a higher carb count meal a few times a week.. But when I say higher were talking 10-15ish tops, usually in the form of a low carb pizza, or Cabbage Lasagna or some other recipe we come up with.
I have in the range of 200+ pounds to lose starting out... and my fiancé has around 100 to loose. (and she's only 4'7")
Given the above and our general love of calorie dense food... This diet continues to be one that is more or less easy for us and allows us to eat all the foods we love so much. (with some obvious exceptions).
I firmly believe those of us with such a tremendous amount of weight to lose, don't really need to listen to the suggested amount of calories I need to eat per day. Personally I'm very satisfied and rarely hungry eating 1500-1800 calories per day, and sometimes less depending on the choices of that day. (yesterday I was only at 1350ish). My fiancé is eating somewhere in the area of 1200-1500 per day. Where MFP tells me I should be eating about 3440 calories a day.. (I just couldn't imagine eating that the way i feel now.)
With my first 2 weeks under my belt... And after doing a bit of research, My fiancé and I both decided to do something neither of us every considered before..... and that was Fasting.
So before we started, I ordered a Keto-Mojo blood Ketone and Glucose monitor... And for the past 3 Sundays, we didn't eat a thing between supper time Saturday and Monday morning Breakfast (36 hours). And this weekend past, since I had Monday off and my fiancé worked, I extended my fast to 48 hours till Monday Supper time when my fiancé got home from work.
So how has fasting been going? To my surprise, it was way easier then I had expected.
As i know from blood testing, Both my wife and I have been in ketosis steadily (day in day out and without fail)... I assume since our bodies are already in a state of ketosis, our bodies just don't really care that we stopped eating as they just continue to burn fat for energy as they do on none fasting days. Sure we get a little hungry, but a few drinks of water quickly quite the grumbling and by about mid afternoon of the fast day, those grumbling practically disappear. And oddly it seems, as soon as you lay down for bed, all feelings of hunger 100% disappear and personally I sleep like a baby and wake the next morning with no particular hunger. The morning before "Break-Fast" my ketone readings are upward of 2.5+ and my blood sugar ranges between 100-110. (normally 110-140 on any other day of the week.... And yes 140 being on keto has me a little concerned that I may be pre-diabetic, but I'm not about to eat some carbs to see what happens at this point).
Basically, going into a fast produces no ill feeling what so ever. Life is just normal.
Energy is fantastic 7 days a week. And now that we don't have to prepare meals, eat meals, or clean up after meals... Sunday has become chore day, where we pick tasks to complete just because when you have so much time on your hands... Let's face it, things can get boring really quick. So all in all, we actually get more exercise on Sundays now, and were getting stuff done around the house which is great.
Weight is just flying off for both of us. Unfortunately I'm still to big to get a reading off a scale... But clothes wise, mobility wise, energy wise, face wise, upper body wise, behind the steering wheel wise it all becomes quite obvious. Doing some quick math, I suspect I'm loosing 5-6 pounds of fat per week. Lynn on the other hand, has lost 10 pounds in her first 4 weeks... But I suspect since fasting she will be averaging 1.5 to 1.66 pounds per week. Lynn only weighs in every 4 weeks, so another week and a half to go and she's quite excited to step on the scale, as people at her work and mine are all noticing the change already.
Things are going so well... We are both looking forward to the next long weekend that we both have off, as we will likely extend our long weekend fast to 60 hours (This coming Easter).
So that's about it... I just wanted to put it out there. In the past I would put Fasting in the "Crazy people" group. But now, It seems silly I never considered it before. Our bodies store fat for a reason, and that reason is to use it when it's needed. We both got lots to use, so we are going to do just that. And being in Ketosis 24/7 makes transitioning into and out of a fast a real breeze. As for Starvation mode... I don't believe this is something one needs to worry about, when one is very overweight.
Anyone thinking of doing keto and fasting... I will state a few things I do religiously as I know it just makes life easier on me during keto.
1. I always have Metamucil at breakfast. This ensures I never get bunged up, that can sometimes happen on keto. Although I do get a fairly decent amount of fiber each day. This has also cured my fiancé of IBS she's been dealing with for 15 years. So I have been drinking it with her every morning in support of her regardless of keto. (As she wouldn't of stuck with it without me beside her every morning)
2. I always take a Calcium Supplement (currently with Vitamin D and Magnesium) and a Multi-Vitamin with breakfast... As I think it's a wise decision.
3. I always take a potassium supplement with breakfast. Normally this far into a low carb diet and particularly a strict keto, I would be experiencing muscle cramping issues by now... Particularly in my lower calves and sometimes in my back or feet. Stretching, would be always be touch and go. I'm very happy to report I have had absolutely no such inclinations this time around. This is big in my book.
4. On fasting days, first thing in the morning and in leu of not taking the items above as I'm not eating.... I take a Keto friendly Electrolyte Hydrator as my body is dumping Electrolytes pretty hard core on fasting days. The current product I'm using is Vega Sport Electrolyte Hydrator... And thus far it seems to be effective.
5. Drink a lot of water... Personally I'm drinking 4-5 liters of water on fasting days. and 3-4 on non-fasting days. Water is even more important when on Keto, and following a severe calorie deficit. Past experience tells me, if I don't drink this much water, uric acid will build up to the point that Gout can onset. If I drink the water, I will pass uric acid and never reach concentrations that cause the formation of uric crystals (the cause of gout).
So that's about it... I realize particularly with item 5, some might think that eating this far under my MFP calorie target I'm likely also breaking down protein/muscle in my body which would explain past experiences with gout. And I have to agree that is probably happening. However as the weight comes off, I also don't need to be strong enough to lug a nearly 500 pound self to multiple grocery stores every Saturday (as I have been forever). I can definitely stand to loose some muscle as I transition. Besides, as the weight comes off, I automatically become more active, as a jump slowly creeps into each step.
I'm hoping someone out there might find this post useful, and I'm also very interested in anyone's stories regarding fasting, and particularly Fasting while following a ketogenic diet.
WOOT WOOT!
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Replies
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Fasting for 48 - 60 hours doesnt seem a good idea to me.28
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paperpudding wrote: »Fasting for 48 - 60 hours doesnt seem a good idea to me.
I 100% agree, that is not good. Keto, expecially the strict keto, is meant to be temporary according to doctors.
Please please be careful while doing keto+fasting.19 -
I have no issue with people following keto if it is a WOE that suits them.
although it certainly is not for me
Like any WOE do it sensibly though, not combine with other extremes.13 -
MissBraeBee wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Fasting for 48 - 60 hours doesnt seem a good idea to me.
I 100% agree, that is not good. Keto, expecially the strict keto, is meant to be temporary according to doctors.
Please please be careful while doing keto+fasting.
We are careful, and take careful note as to how were feeling, along with constantly monitoring blood glucose and ketones levels. If we weren't feeling so good and positive I would have probably NOT had such a glowing commentary on our journey so far. And if anything changes in the future, we will be wary. I do appreciate your cautionary note.
I would note though that there are more then a few doctor's out there that strongly support fasting and keto. Dr. Fung probably being the most well known. In fact he advocates for fasting periods of up to 3 days. Fasting has also been linked to many health benefits, including rebalancing of insulin response, and improving baselines for other hormones, such as Ghrelin which is a moderator of hunger. These effects are shown to last once the fast is ended. The effect helps to moderate Yo-yo type effects in a natural way.
There are additional affects such as Autophagy, which essentially causes the individuals cells of your body to clean house of broken proteins and other cell machinery.... Which has been shown to increase life spans and reduce risks of cancer.
As for strict keto only being temporary... I agree. For me that means till we get much closer to goal weight, where I foresee I'll actually have to eat more to maintain my current energy levels. And eventually I suspect I will be adding in complex carbs and eventually landing on a daily maintenance level of calories of a more balanced dietary plan. (that's the dream goal anyway.)
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As soon as you said "FUNG" I bailed. Dude has been debunked many times by other experts who have better knowledge.Poobah1972 wrote: »MissBraeBee wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Fasting for 48 - 60 hours doesnt seem a good idea to me.
I 100% agree, that is not good. Keto, expecially the strict keto, is meant to be temporary according to doctors.
Please please be careful while doing keto+fasting.
We are careful, and take careful note as to how were feeling, along with constantly monitoring blood glucose and ketones levels. If we weren't feeling so good and positive I wouldn't have probably had such a glowing commentary on our journey so far. And if anything changes in the future, we will be wary. I do appreciate your cautionary note.
I would note though that there are more then a few doctor's out there that strongly support fasting and keto. Dr. Fung probably being the most well known. In fact he advocates for fasting periods of up to 3 days. Fasting has also been linked to many health benefits, including rebalancing of insulin response, and improving baselines for other hormones, such as Ghrelin which is a moderator of hunger. These effects are shown to last once the fast is ended. The effect helps to moderate Yo-yo type effects in a natural way.
There are additional affects such as Autophagy, which essentially causes the individuals cells of your body to clean house of broken proteins and other cell machinery.... Which has been shown to increase life spans and reduce risks of cancer.
As for strict keto only being temporary... I agree. For me that means till we get much closer to goal weight, where I foresee I'll actually have to eat more to maintain my current energy levels. And eventually I suspect I will be adding in complex carbs and eventually landing on a daily maintenance level of calories of a more balanced dietary plan. (that's the dream goal anyway.)
What I SEE that will be interesting is when you decide to add carbs back. Because you've already stated that you kept increasing it.
Doing this for decades, I know that people that can't stick to a weight loss keto diet after reaching goal, WILL REGAIN just by adding carbs back in and that the majority of keto dieters CANNOT live that way the rest of their lives. A lot CLAIM they can, but a year or two down the road, they are gone or back on here saying they regained and are trying to lose again..........................through keto. Basically that's yoyo dieting.
Just stating facts. I hope anyone that loses keeps it off, but the numbers don't point that direction with keto.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Poobah1972 wrote: »MissBraeBee wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »Fasting for 48 - 60 hours doesnt seem a good idea to me.
I 100% agree, that is not good. Keto, expecially the strict keto, is meant to be temporary according to doctors.
Please please be careful while doing keto+fasting.
We are careful, and take careful note as to how were feeling, along with constantly monitoring blood glucose and ketones levels. If we weren't feeling so good and positive I would have probably NOT had such a glowing commentary on our journey so far. And if anything changes in the future, we will be wary. I do appreciate your cautionary note.
I would note though that there are more then a few doctor's out there that strongly support fasting and keto. Dr. Fung probably being the most well known. In fact he advocates for fasting periods of up to 3 days. Fasting has also been linked to many health benefits, including rebalancing of insulin response, and improving baselines for other hormones, such as Ghrelin which is a moderator of hunger. These effects are shown to last once the fast is ended. The effect helps to moderate Yo-yo type effects in a natural way.
There are additional affects such as Autophagy, which essentially causes the individuals cells of your body to clean house of broken proteins and other cell machinery.... Which has been shown to increase life spans and reduce risks of cancer.
As for strict keto only being temporary... I agree. For me that means till we get much closer to goal weight, where I foresee I'll actually have to eat more to maintain my current energy levels. And eventually I suspect I will be adding in complex carbs and eventually landing on a daily maintenance level of calories of a more balanced dietary plan. (that's the dream goal anyway.)
I'm glad you see what I mean with keto, I read dirty keto is alright but for every diet like fasting and keto, you've got to think you'll be doing that for the rest of your life, it has to become a way of life rather then a diet if you get what I mean. Be very careful thought because I think once you drop keto, you might be getting some of your weight back. Not trying to discourage you on your very great weightloss journey, I think everyone has their own path, just fair warning because both these diets are pretty extremes I wish you luck on your path, I for sure wouldnt be able to follow both at the same time, even just the 3 days fast is way too much for me hahaha!
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Well I doubt you will get a lot of agreements with your diet-LOL. For what it's worth I am with you. I have been doing a combination of keto IF and 36/48 hour fasting for twelve months now. Right now I am losing roughly 90 pounds 10 to go. Going the distance with fasting is highly controversial, I have gone up to 70 hours, but needs to be kept under strict supervision, lots of water etc I am sure you know all that by now. If it is managed carefully will help not only to lose weight but overall health in general. Good luck !!!14
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As soon as you said "FUNG" I bailed. Dude has been debunked many times by other experts who have better knowledge.
What I SEE that will be interesting is when you decide to add carbs back. Because you've already stated that you kept increasing it.
Doing this for decades, I know that people that can't stick to a weight loss keto diet after reaching goal, WILL REGAIN just by adding carbs back in and that the majority of keto dieters CANNOT live that way the rest of their lives. A lot CLAIM they can, but a year or two down the road, they are gone or back on here saying they regained and are trying to lose again..........................through keto. Basically that's yoyo dieting.
Just stating facts. I hope anyone that loses keeps it off, but the numbers don't point that direction with keto.
I'm not an expert in fasting by no means, and I'm definitely not well enough read on Fung or anyone else for that matter on the topic.
But as for weight loss... I have lost 200+ before moved from keto to a more balanced diet... I was maintaining and actually building muscle for a few years... And the nail in my coffin was moving out of town away from the gym and basically not caring about what I ate anymore... My life style changed from terrible to amazing and eventually to Terrible again. Life style was the cause of both my weight gain and weight loss and I suppose it's like that for everyone. It took 10+ years to put all the weight back on.
As I reach goal and dietary plans shift, I will have to find balance in my life style and choices to support myself. I can only hope that I will achieve it this time around. I have an amazing fiance for support now, who also needs my support. Here's hoping we finally figure it out.
As for fasting... It can be done safely. I'm sure your aware but there is a study you can find online of a gentlemen who fasted for over a year with nothing more then water and liquid vitamins and minerals. He was doctor supervised and lost something upwards of 250ish pounds. The study is getting a little old, but the gist was that even long term fasting can be done safely (with doctor supervision), and according the study, the gentlemen maintained his weight afterwards, with no ill effects. (NOTE I"m not suggesting anyone try this!)
So If the above is true, then surely short fasts of 1-3 days can be made safely, assuming you have excess body fat, and no health conditions of note.
And again, one of my initial trusts of my initial posts was, When going from keto to fasting it truly is a comfortable experience as ones metabolism does not need to switch, this is a big factor as to why it is actually a very comfortable experiences. I just wanted to share that, as I was surprised as any to experience it.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »But as for weight loss... I have lost 200+ before moved from keto to a more balanced diet... I was maintaining and actually building muscle for a few years... And the nail in my coffin was moving out of town away from the gym and basically not caring about what I ate anymore... My life style changed from terrible to amazing and eventually to Terrible again. Life style was the cause of both my weight gain and weight loss and I suppose it's like that for everyone. It took 10+ years to put all the weight back on.
As I reach goal and dietary plans shift, I will have to find balance in my life style and choices to support myself. I can only hope that I will achieve it this time around. I have an amazing fiance for support now, who also needs my support. Here's hoping we finally figure it out.
Thats great to have a supporting partner
mine is very supportive also! I'm glad this path is mostly working out for you, keep going I'm sure you'll achieve your goal 7 -
Yikes this just all sounds so restrictive. I've never understood why people combine IF with keto. The whole point of IF is that it allows you to save calories and eat bigger meals when you break your fast. So then why not just eat foods you enjoy instead of throwing the keto fad into the mix? You could get the same results without keto. Maybe just a bit slower but slower is better.11
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Yikes this just all sounds so restrictive. I've never understood why people combine IF with keto. The whole point of IF is that it allows you to save calories and eat bigger meals when you break your fast. So then why not just eat foods you enjoy instead of throwing the keto fad into the mix? You could get the same results without keto. Maybe just a bit slower but slower is better.
I honestly would be so unhappy with that kind of diet, I love food way too much lmao2 -
Well I doubt you will get a lot of agreements with your diet-LOL. For what it's worth I am with you. I have been doing a combination of keto IF and 36/48 hour fasting for twelve months now. Right now I am losing roughly 90 pounds 10 to go. Going the distance with fasting is highly controversial, I have gone up to 70 hours, but needs to be kept under strict supervision, lots of water etc I am sure you know all that by now. If it is managed carefully will help not only to lose weight but overall health in general. Good luck !!!
Thank you! Glad to hear from someone with similar experience... and so close to goal! Very inspiring. (And yeah, I wasn't expecting a glowing response... But I hoped to hear from someone just like you.)
So yeah... Thank you and amazing work!
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Yikes this just all sounds so restrictive. I've never understood why people combine IF with keto. The whole point of IF is that it allows you to save calories and eat bigger meals when you break your fast. So then why not just eat foods you enjoy instead of throwing the keto fad into the mix? You could get the same results without keto. Maybe just a bit slower but slower is better.
I know it sounds that way... But my fiancé and I actually enjoy eating Keto, and I I'll reiterate the point that... Since we are blood tested in Ketosis every day. Our bodies are always eating fat for energy, thus we have no ill feelings when having a fasting period. Our energy, and well being and general good mood remains great and constant before during and after the fast period. I suppose that's why people combine Keto and some form of fasting. Cause if you are in a Glucose metabolism, I understand the switch over to ketosis can be quite demanding and much more negative in terms of energy, mood, hunger etc..
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Poobah1972 wrote: »Yikes this just all sounds so restrictive. I've never understood why people combine IF with keto. The whole point of IF is that it allows you to save calories and eat bigger meals when you break your fast. So then why not just eat foods you enjoy instead of throwing the keto fad into the mix? You could get the same results without keto. Maybe just a bit slower but slower is better.
I know it sounds that way... But my fiancé and I actually enjoy eating Keto, and I I'll reiterate the point that... Since we are blood tested in Ketosis every day. Our bodies are always eating fat for energy, thus we have no ill feelings when having a fasting period. Our energy, and well being and general good mood remains great and constant before during and after the fast period. I suppose that's why people combine Keto and some form of fasting. Cause if you are in a Glucose metabolism, I understand the switch over to ketosis can be quite demanding and not nearly so invasive.
Just please be aware that there is a limit to how much fat your body can metabolize per day, so if you're in a severe deficit, your body won't be able to make all that up through fat. (There's also the separate issue of nutrients, many of which your body doesn't store big reserves of and you should be eating regularly which is hard to do if you're going multiple days without eating and eating at a big deficit on the other days).
It's easy to feel great on a severe deficit . . . until you don't. At that point, you may already be experiencing some of the physical effects of undereating and it may take time to resolve (or, if it involves certain types of damage, it may not be something you can spring back from).
This doesn't have to be a sprint to the finish.21 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »I would note though that there are more then a few doctor's out there that strongly support fasting and keto. Dr. Fung probably being the most well known. In fact he advocates for fasting periods of up to 3 days. Fasting has also been linked to many health benefits, including rebalancing of insulin response, and improving baselines for other hormones, such as Ghrelin which is a moderator of hunger. These effects are shown to last once the fast is ended. The effect helps to moderate Yo-yo type effects in a natural way.
There are additional affects such as Autophagy, which essentially causes the individuals cells of your body to clean house of broken proteins and other cell machinery.... Which has been shown to increase life spans and reduce risks of cancer.
I think niner's comment on Jason Fung covers that topic.
As far as fasting induced autophagy - at least as far as I am aware, there have not been any increases in autophagy (or it's benefits) demonstrated in humans. I know there are quite a few researchers who are looking at the subject, but so far, no one has any concrete results to report.
Since the strict keto seems to be working for you, I say go for it. I have done keto, low carb, carnivore, etc in the past, but found that none of them we completely sustainable for me. Lower carb works for me (and is what i am doing now), but not down to the levels of keto.8 -
I hope you continue to have success in your weight loss journey. As long as you are carefully monitoring your bodies/responses and not boxing yourself into anything (ie- eat if you feel ill and don't be fearful of carbs), I don't see anything wrong with sticking to what is working well so far for you and your fiance. With a lot of weight to lose like that, fasting once in a while will not harm you.6
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I hope you continue to have success in your weight loss journey. As long as you are carefully monitoring your bodies/responses and not boxing yourself into anything (ie- eat if you feel ill and don't be fearful of carbs), I don't see anything wrong with sticking to what is working well so far for you and your fiancé. With a lot of weight to lose like that, fasting once in a while will not harm you.
Thank you for your well wishes. We will be vigilant, monitoring our health and energy levels. Right now things are so positive, it's a little over the top .
My Fiancé's Ab-Booster arrived at our front door yesterday, and she was so excited to get it put together I had a hard time convincing her to wait until after supper before we put it together. lol. But immediately after supper, we quickly put it together (all nuts and bolts were included... yay). And she happily ab-boosted away for 10-15 minutes before she was wiped, and quite happy to be so. 3 -
I don't know if keto and fasting are for me but sure sounds like it is working for you. You sound very level headed and happy so it must be working! Keep up the good work and stay safe! Wishing you and your fiance all the very best!5
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The human body is capable of being in a fasted state for multiple days-- it is our heritage. That it is possible is not to say it's good for you. The human lifespan in 1st world countries is the longest of any generation, and almost no one fasts for more than a few hours. I have done partial fasts for a day without incident. Multiple days sound really difficult, particularly if you want to accomplish anything (and not just lie around thinking about food).
So, I guess my main question is: why?11 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »The human body is capable of being in a fasted state for multiple days-- it is our heritage. That it is possible is not to say it's good for you. The human lifespan in 1st world countries is the longest of any generation, and almost no one fasts for more than a few hours. I have done partial fasts for a day without incident. Multiple days sound really difficult, particularly if you want to accomplish anything (and not just lie around thinking about food).
So, I guess my main question is: why?
Good Morning Sarah,
I politely disagree with the comment "and not just lie around thinking about food"... But I do understand why anyone might think that. To be very honest going into the first fast, I suspected we would be extremely hungry and that we would be grumpy on edge and best to "stay out of each others way" sort of thing. However, both of us were pleasantly surprised to find that none of that came to pass. We certainly didn't lay around thinking about food. In fact we now spend part of the week figuring out what extra tasks we want to complete around the house on the upcoming Sunday simply because there so much more time in the day. We really aren't that hungry, sure we might get some gurgling noises and such, but in no way are we "HUNGRY" "FEED ME NOW OR DIE" and as mentioned drinking some water completely solves the issue and as the day passes even those feelings pass and become non-existent as the late afternoon and evening come to bare. Energy remains high all day, our mood is great and work around the house gets done. And yes we might squeeze in a movie, even a Extended cut Lord of the rings (just 1 part).
As for accomplishing something... Both my fiancé and I are simply attempting to lose weight in a safe and effective manner that is still enjoyable and for all intensive purposes fairly easy mentally for us. I would agree with anyone that suggests that a 1-2 pound loss per week is ideal. However I believe that 1-2 pound weight loss is ideal for someone that has 50 pounds or less to lose. I don't agree that one needs to adhere to those guidelines when one is extremely over weight. Simply cause the excessively overweight has such an extreme amount of energy just waiting to be burned, which it will do if given the chance and much reduced calorie intake.
Personally, I find if you figure out your maintenance needs at goal weight, minus a reduction in calories of 1-2 pounds per week... Then just eat that right from the beginning. Your body will provide the deficit from it's abundant fat reserves. That said, you always need to listen to your body. As you get closer to goal, fat reserve bio-availability will likely reduce, it's quite possible you will actually need to eat more to maintain energy and a sense of well being. In fact at any time, if energy levels and mood deteriorate, the chances are more food will be required. And one also must be aware that as the weight comes off, activity levels also increase. Perhaps you walk more, faster, longer, exercise more, or add in strength training. All of these activities should increase your calorie intake to compensate.
We are simply trying to lose what I consider a safe amount of weight at a reasonably quick rate while maintaining high energy, levels and good health. Regardless of how fast the weight comes off, this is still going to be a relatively long haul, as the weight drops... fast at first, I'm fully aware that weight loss will progressively slow eventually right down to that 1-2 pounds and eventually less, Personally I know I will never be reducing my calorie intake less then what I intake currently, and as mentioned I will likely need to eat more as fat reserves shrink. Fasting may also prove more negative as the time line progresses, and if so adjustments will be made.
But so far... We truly have been feeling like a million bucks.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »
Good Morning Sarah,
[...]
But so far... We truly have been feeling like a million bucks.
Well, OK, I will not contradict your own experience. I definitely experience reduced activity on fasted days. (Definitely not a day to do a 25 mile bike ride, for example.)
But, who's Sarah?4 -
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »Well, OK, I will not contradict your own experience. I definitely experience reduced activity on fasted days. (Definitely not a day to do a 25 mile bike ride, for example.)
But, who's Sarah?
Oopsie... That was the person that posted above you. I must have made a quoting Woopsie. Pardon moi.
And Yes I bet anyone like you who is up to biking 25 miles or going for a run etc and so forth would indeed experience fatigue in comparison to a regular day. However I'm not that guy... Lol. I want to be that guy, and hope to be that guy. But right now neither I or my Fiance are up to those fitness levels where it plays a factor in our day. I'm sure it will come though, sooner or later.0 -
So let's be a little frank, the human body is terrible at telling you something unlike it's highly broken. So unless you are getting frequently dexa scan, metabolic panels, etc... You won't know many things like, are you losing muscle, are you developing vitamin or mineral deficiencies, etc.. another example, how many people have you known who didn't know they had cancer until it was too late?
I enjoy Keto. For some it's extremely good at blunting hunger... Some a little too much. While I do clean keto, it's very easy for me to go extended periods without food. So that is a huge positive.
But, there are a lot of negatives to Keto and that is even more exaggerated with IF. The two biggest is reduced ability to sustain muscle (carbs are anti-catabolic and protein sparring) and carbs significantly help with gym performance. Fasting is catabolic... That is just a fact. Combining fasting, especially long periods, and keto will increase the likelihood of muscle loss. Muscle loss will lead to a slower metabolic rate. Now, i know the argument that Fung and people like Thomas Delauer make... Fasting increases HGH. Well yea, it's true. But hgh doesn't increase muscle mass, even if a person is injected with super physiological doses. When injected with HGH, you would see an increase in lbm from increases in total body water and improved connective tissue. HGH does serve a second function.. and that is mobilizing fuel substrates. The transient increse in HGH is to metabolize fatty acids.
I think it's awesome that you are enjoying this, but understand if it's going to support long term goals. I run keto for periods of cutting and then add carbs in hopes of preserving or building muscle. If your goal is lean and defined, keto and IF will likely work against that. It's something to consider.25 -
So let's be a little frank, the human body is terrible at telling you something unlike it's highly broken. So unless you are getting frequently dexa scan, metabolic panels, etc... You won't know many things like, are you losing muscle, are you developing vitamin or mineral deficiencies, etc.. another example, how many people have you known who didn't know they had cancer until it was too late?
I enjoy Keto. For some it's extremely good at blunting hunger... Some a little too much. While I do clean keto, it's very easy for me to go extended periods without food. So that is a huge positive.
But, there are a lot of negatives to Keto and that is even more exaggerated with IF. The two biggest is reduced ability to sustain muscle (carbs are anti-catabolic and protein sparring) and carbs significantly help with gym performance. Fasting is catabolic... That is just a fact. Combining fasting, especially long periods, and keto will increase the likelihood of muscle loss. Muscle loss will lead to a slower metabolic rate. Now, i know the argument that Fung and people like Thomas Delauer make... Fasting increases HGH. Well yea, it's true. But hgh doesn't increase muscle mass, even if a person is injected with super physiological doses. When injected with HGH, you would see an increase in lbm from increases in total body water and improved connective tissue. HGH does serve a second function.. and that is mobilizing fuel substrates. The transient increse in HGH is to metabolize fatty acids.
I think it's awesome that you are enjoying this, but understand if it's going to support long term goals. I run keto for periods of cutting and then add carbs in hopes of preserving or building muscle. If your goal is lean and defined, keto and IF will likely work against that. It's something to consider.
Yes, I didn't know my anemia was way out of control until my ferritin was 1.7, which is Go Directly to the Emergency Room for a Blood Transfusion low.
I had noticed some fatigue and asked to get my iron levels tested, but had no idea things were as bad as they were.7 -
Yes, and calcium, vitamin D, B vitamins. Ketones and perceptions of energy levels are not the most accurate measures of health. And as Lemon said, preserving muscle mass is really important to overall metabolic health.
The first few weeks of any weight loss plan can have a euphoric placebo effect. And I hope it lasts.
Keri being a successful way of eating is one thing—for some people it does work. Just like other ways of eating. Just be careful in buying into the pseudo (and discredited) “science” Fung and others are spouting. They won’t necessarily steer you into health, just weight loss (possibly).
8 -
Good for your and your partner. Unfornately, still so many people on MPL cling to the old ideas of fat is bad and fasting is going to cause you over eat. Don't mind them, you are doing great.
I am un the same course, for now I only do intermittent fasting by eating one meal a day, but I want to try longer fast in the future too.
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skinnyjingbb wrote: »Unfornately, still so many people on MPL cling to the old ideas of fat is bad and fasting is going to cause you over eat. Don't mind them, you are doing great.
Interesting interpretation of constructive criticism in the thread.26 -
Lol, who has stated that? There are many veterans here that eat full fat, IF and still eat carbs. You do OMAD and that's a personal preference and if you're getting in the calories you need in that meal, that's good. If you're undereating it's not.skinnyjingbb wrote: »Good for your and your partner. Unfornately, still so many people on MPL cling to the old ideas of fat is bad and fasting is going to cause you over eat. Don't mind them, you are doing great.
I am un the same course, for now I only do intermittent fasting by eating one meal a day, but I want to try longer fast in the future too.
That's basically what we're telling the OP. Make sure not to undereat. Fasting for several days won't kill someone, but it's also not ideal because as psulemon said, it's catabolic. And unless the essentials you need daily are replenished (protein and fat), the body will pull it from itself and for protein that would be in muscle itself. And the more lean muscle you lose, the worst it is not only for metabolic rate, but for your joints as well because muscle helps to keep pressure of joints rubbing off it's cartilage at a lower rate.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
19 -
I appreciate everyone's comments... And I'm 100% positive everyone intentions are good. I'm on my 4th Sunday fast as we speak. The lockdown in my area just recently ended yesterday, and we had our children and better halves over along with a Grand kids yesterday.
I baked them a fresh loaf of Non-low carb bread... and a turkey with all the fixings. Everyone except my fiance and I enjoyed chocolate cake, and we had a half a Quest chocolate chip cookie, melted in the microwave with a little halo ice cream.... All in all we all had a wonderful time. (been way to long).
All said and done, I was a little over 1400 calories on the day.... And so far this morning, no hunger yet. We went grocery shopping and took a long drive in the country.
I'll keep monitoring... No Hair Falling out yet, Teeth are white with no wiggle, just a little more jiggle in my stomach fat as it get's more pliable and stretchy.. I'm good with that jiggle.
Cheers all.8 -
I expect under eating problems like hair /nails/ teeth to take longer than 4 weeks to manifest.
Whether you are doing keto or not_ eat , on average, the amount of calories you are meant to and don't fast for excessive time periods, if you must do it at all.
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