Keto and Fasting has been amazing thus far.
Replies
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You obviously aren’t going to change what you are doing until a problem is visible in some way.
So, all I will say is please, both of you talk to your doctor, explain your weight loss plan, and ask him to monitor your health and run bloodwork checks monthly. This way any problems (and there will be) can be caught before remedial steps have to be taken.
Anything that is so low cal (relatively speaking), and includes regular multi day fasting should be done with medical guidance.
If you won’t work with your doctor on this, ask yourself why.
Cheers, h.16 -
paperpudding wrote: »I expect under eating problems like hair /nails/ teeth to take longer than 4 weeks to manifest.
Whether you are doing keto or not_ eat , on average, the amount of calories you are meant to and don't fast for excessive time periods, if you must do it at all.middlehaitch wrote: »You obviously aren’t going to change what you are doing until a problem is visible in some way.
So, all I will say is please, both of you talk to your doctor, explain your weight loss plan, and ask him to monitor your health and run bloodwork checks monthly. This way any problems (and there will be) can be caught before remedial steps have to be taken.
Anything that is so low cal (relatively speaking), and includes regular multi day fasting should be done with medical guidance.
If you won’t work with your doctor on this, ask yourself why.
Cheers, h.
I appreciate the concern, I do. However As per my original post, I feel and has been my personal and fairly extensive history that I do not need to adhere to the MFP calorie intake recommendations due to the fact I'm grossly overweight and have an abundance of fat reserves to make up my current shortfall.. You certainly can if you want too, and weight loss will occur. I've personally recommend eating your goal weight requirements minus a modest calorie restriction. That puts me around 1500-1800 (granted on Saturday I was a little under, but that sometimes happens on Saturdays as It's not a work day and I'm just not has hungry through out the day. As time goes on, I doubt I'll be reducing calories from where I am now, and in fact I suspect as activity levels rise and available fuel (fat) lowers I'll be increasing calorie intake to maintain energy and strength.
What I eat now is far healthier then what I was eating before I started this journey... Out is every single fast food item and junk food or beverage. I'm eating more vegetables, salads then i would of eaten previously. So well I understand that eating less calories in general could result in nutrient deficiencies, am I really more at risk of that now then I was before? Given that my weight is already significantly down, I'm significantly more mobile, my knee and back pain has all but disappeared, and I'm just generally feeling 100% better.
Sometimes I feel there is a disconnect between those that have never experienced being 400-500 pounds plus, vs those that are much closer to a normal weight. The nutrients and energy that can be mobilized in the extremely obese is much higher then those that are not and I believe that's just common sense. Yes I do agree that muscle mass, can be lost, but I don't think it's something of huge concern given the our situation. Am I losing muscle mass... Probably, but I definitely don't need muscle mass to carry 500 lb's around eventually so no matter what by the end of this journey I should be loosing muscle mass. During my first major weight loss that took many years to reverse... My back and legs were extremely strong, and Obviously cause they needed to be to get me through daily life. This time, I don't plan to be able to do 500 pound squats, 750 pound deadlifts for reps, and 380 pound bench press. Sure I had a high metabolism, but I spent more then a health amount of time in the gym and away from my family. Even my heart, in the end won't need to be as strong as it is now... With every pound I loose, my heart will need to work that much less. All to say, some loss of muscle mass is to be expected and should happen more so for the grossly overweight.
You know, I could have had weight loss reduction surgery. I decided against it, because I know I can lose the weight, as I have done before. It took me a long while to comes to terms with the fact that I let myself gain it all back over a long period of time. But I've finally forgave myself and am getting on with it now. I'm a self-proclaimed Chef, that enjoy's cooking and food in general. However, I know lot's of people that had surgery and the general impression is it just isn't for me. But from what I seen and the amount of weight these people loose, they are typically eating less then I am 6 days a week in some cases significantly. Granted they have occasional doctor's visits and are most often taking a liquid vitamin to make up for deficiencies. But I feel there calorie restriction as shown by there extreme weight loss does offer some evidence that my calorie restriction at least 6 days a week is within the limits of safe. As for the fasting day, well that is a matter of debate.
I should add I don't currently have a doctor... But I will see what I can do about getting some blood work done, and see what the doctor thinks (perhaps every 3 months or so I'm thinking). I have spoken to my Doctor in the past and another Doctor more recently about Low Carbing.... And both of them were for anything that works to reduce my eight. My orginal Doctor was skeptical at first, but after watching me loose 200+ pounds and also witnessing my whole body transformation (hulking muscle mass) he was completely sold, and HDL LDL were picture perfect at the end. (granted I did have a few bouts of gout during initial fast weight loss, that I seem to have figured solved simply with greatly increased water intake. I will inquiry about fasting though, I promise.
This is only early days yet.
Cheers
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Just an fyi, I made my Food Diary public in case anyone was interested in what I was eating.
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I have spoken to my Doctor in the past and another Doctor more recently about Low Carbing.... And both of them were for anything that works to reduce my weight.
Nobody here was against Low carbing - if that is a WOE that suits you
and of course if you are very overweight anything that reduces that is a good thing
Extrapolating from that to fasting for 48 to 60 hours is the issue.
But you have made up your mind - so be it.9 -
paperpudding wrote: »Nobody here was against Low carbing - if that is a WOE that suits you
and of course if you are very overweight anything that reduces that is a good thing
Extrapolating from that to fasting for 48 to 60 hours is the issue.
But you have made up your mind - so be it.
I hear yeah... Generally, fasts will only be 36 hours. I did the 48 hours once.... And I'm not so sure I'll be doing a 60 hour, That I haven't made my mind up on yet and you never know what might happen between now and when I actually have an opportunity to try it. Maybe the idea, won't seem so exciting by then? Hmmmm, we shall see.1 -
I don't think a 36 hour fast is dangerous at all -- I've done full day fasts for religious reasons (dinner to breakfast the day after is about 36 hours) and never thought there was anything dubious about it. What worries me a bit about the fasting culture that seems "in" right now is this idea that longer and longer fasts are desirable for some reason, that doing the longest fast (obv not literally the longer, I've also read about the guy who did the super long medically supervised fast) is a thing to aspire to. One reason I'm not that positive about fasting in that way is that I don't think it's likely to be as useful a way to maintain weight than just learning to eat how you want to be eating daily or over the course of a week or what not (and maintenance can be a lot harder than losing).
Out of curiosity, what is it that seems exciting about a 60 hour fast? Are you reading stuff that suggests it will be some mindblowing experience or is it because it seems like a feat or what? I'm just curious. (I don't think fasting for essentially two full days will hurt you, although I would be really careful and read about how you should refeed, since I think that can be the most risky part. It just seems pointless and unpleasant to me.)8 -
Out of curiosity, what is it that seems exciting about a 60 hour fast? Are you reading stuff that suggests it will be some mindblowing experience or is it because it seems like a feat or what? I'm just curious. (I don't think fasting for essentially two full days will hurt you, although I would be really careful and read about how you should refeed, since I think that can be the most risky part. It just seems pointless and unpleasant to me.)
Good Morning Lemurcar2... Hope your Tuesday is going well.
I've read a bunch of stuff from all sorts of people... I will say I'm a Gemini, and true to my Sign, I am a Devil's advocate at heart, always seeing both sides of the story, and to a great extent understanding both sides (i was often the judge and mediator of other peoples problems growing up, not by choice but because people tended to trust me advice). Truth always lies on spectrum, Like Light and Dark, Hate and love and good and evil (if either truly exist). Ego often prevents us from recognizing our own truths or lack there of, or being able to see clearly the point of view of others.
Yes, you do see many people out there that report fasting for 30 days or even more, however I do have to wonder what is the actual point? Why subject oneself to multiple long fasts per year? One particular gentlemen, talks of fasting for an extended time lines, and preparing for a marathon... Then upon completion of his fast he would eat all you can eat at Taco Bell? (apparently he claims he doesn't need to heed the refeeding guidelines as apparently for him he's so use to long term fasts, his body has adjusted). This all seems pointless in multiple respects? how is it that he's gaining 30-50 pounds that he would be able to fast for 30 or more days so many times a year? And gorging at Taco Bell in calibration of a successful fast? I'm sure he had his reasons, but I'm not sure they have anything to do with healthy approach to life in general? While he seems to have will power to command, perhaps it's the challenge and the ability to say he did it that motivates him more then the weight loss in the first place? Wouldn't will power be better put to use by first losing the weight then maintaining so such drastic measures aren't needed again in the future? I do not aspire to partake in a prolonged fast, I enjoy eating and cooking not only for me, but for my family.
I will admit I have read the entire paper in its entirety on the Gentlemen that did fast for over a year, and i will add that the document itself is valuable from the point of view of general safety and overall proof that our bodies to great extent are designed to be able to do this. While the particulars are getting a little foggy, (it's been a few years since I read it) the gentlemen at first was under pretty constant Dr. Supervision, but as time went on he actually walked to the clinic whether it was once a week or longer I don't remember. They constantly monitored his blood work, and there wasn't really problems that required response until the fast amount of his weight was already consumed. His muscle mass certainly declined, but as I had mentioned above, going from 400-500 pounds to normal weight you really should lose muscle mass as you just don't need the same amount. And his heart health improved. So none of this to say, this is what I aspire too, I only take it antidotal evidence that fasts such as the ones I'm partaking in are far from dangerous as some would think.
The stories I enjoyed the most and offered the most encouragement was found on a few different sites, but It had a wide range of people and many couples... Both of these sites featured people that were performing some form of IF, whether it was OMAD, windowed or fasting 1 or even 2 days a week. I didn't dive into the weeds, but just enjoyed what they had to say about their particular journeys. Many of these people were also low carbing. Coming from a history of successful weight loss (granted I gained it all back when I made some poor life decisions), I already know how successful I can be doing low carb and how easy it is for me to still enjoy what I eat, lose weight, and not feel like I'm constantly starving while I'm doing it. Also being so large and putting a fairly extensive amount of research into what I've done over the years, I tend to think I understand my body and what is safe compared to some good intentioned people that really don't have a clue what it is to be this large, nor likely didn't have the personal stake in anything they may have read involving such large people, that they probably couldn't understand or retain said information as a person might who does have a personal stake in doing so. Not to say I don't appreciate everyone's comments, because to comment is to at least care at some level.
So why did i state I was excited for my first opportunity to fast for 60 hours? (Putting my Ego aside), when i wrote that I just undertook my first few fasts and finally got up the courage to write about it.... It was early days (still is), I had slayed my nemesis, and I did so handily. Never in all my life, did I realize that it would be so easy to do such a thing as "Not Eat" for day. And all the time, doing it without any discomfort, or hardly any real hunger. I was like a child with his brand new bicycle. I felt that needed to let people know, as before that moment, I really didn't understand what it was actually going to feel like, and neither did my fiancé who equally slayed her nemesis. It was and still is an exciting time for us. But I will be honest, I'm not as excited as I initially was about the potential of a 60 hour fast on our horizon. Such is life, you start something new, you approach it with a fresh face and lots of hope and energy, as time goes on emotions balance with reality and you come into balance. I'm really on the fence at this point. A 36 hour fast is really a piece of cake for us, and I kind of like having my Sundays so open Time wise to do whatever else we want.... But 60 hours will likely grow old really, so yeah not so sure about that one.
Cheers!
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I mean't to include a bit about refeeding after a fast in my above post...
I will say this, while my fasts have been of a shorter variety... It is worth noting, that within 1.5-3 hours of eating I do experience a very short bout of a liquid diarrhea. Like short as in, sit down and done (not hold onto your seat, wide eyed terror or anything extreme like that). At that point the rest of the week progresses as normal with typical movements occurring every day or every other day. It's like food hit's my stomach and my entire system gets a bit of a flush, probably has something to do with a little excess stomach/bowel fluids being produced and little to slow it down between my stomach and ejection point as my digestive system comes fully online? But that is pure speculation. I don't believe any special refeeding guidelines during my particular fast periods are needed, specially since I'm only eating 350-500 calories max at my initial re-feeding.
I would say the longer you go the more important food selection would become.0 -
Good day everyone!
I reckon I'll get a bunch more Disagrees bringing this thread back up. But I thought it was worthwhile to up date anyone that was interested in our progress and KETO and Fasting in general..
My fiancé and I have now successfully fasted for 11 straight Sundays. We continue to be fully committed to the Keto Life style, and invest much time, thought and research into making this WOE a forever reality (Granted fasting will not be). We are still as excited now as we were when we started, except Sundays have become old hat and just a regular Sunday. We love the food we eat, and continue to be 100% satiated 6 days of the week, and Sundays, just the odd occasion of stomach gurgles etc, that water easily remedies. Energy levels remain high every week 7 days a week, and mood is great, sleep is great... Though we do have the habit of waking up a bit early on Monday morning excited to get the day started (and eat of course).
I did make the decision along the way that I love eating, cooking and baking... And I've decided that I have no interest in attempting a longer fast. And that's that. Sunday just works for us, it's like a day off in the kitchen, it's enjoyable... And come Monday morning, we simply enjoy eating. On the other side of the equation I now know IF, OMAD (windowed approaches) wouldn't fit within our lifestyles. What works is what's important for anyone I believe.
I've started maintaining a couple spreadsheets... One that tracks my blood glucoses, ketones and GKI as well as all other key macro's and total calorie intake. This has proven very useful in clearly indicating my blood glucose and GKI have been steadily improving from the very beginning. This morning in fact hitting all time new records.
Blood Ketones - 2.7
Blood Glucose - 83 (New Record) (by something like 15 points)
GKI - 1.71 (New Record)
This has been a very steady reminder of progress, and I have also been able to see how slight adjustments to macro directly affect those reading. For instance I recently decided to stop having a pudding with 7 grams of carb 5 days a week, and I replaced it with 6-12 grams of Coconut fat as part of my breakfast... The immediate effect of which has raised ketone levels and reduced Glucose levels. I also believed by making that adjustment, it would raise my fat percentage to protein, along with the input of MTC oils, my body would likely require less protein to glucose conversion in light of increased ketone production. This was an effort to reduce uric acid in my blood, and flare ups of gout. The numbers seem to show that this conclusion is a sound one... As Ketones and glucose levels both immediately improved. Basically this move also put me more in line with a stricter Keto profile. Yet we still eat like kings and I average 25 grams of fiber daily, sometimes more sometimes less. Big thanks in part to the keto bread doe recipe we use daily in many fashions.
So yeah, I had 2 flare ups of gout... Very mild ones, that didn't lay me out... But still I needed to do something. I also saw a doctor, got a prescription and am getting a complete blood work up done in about a months time as to allow the prescription and my uric levels to stabilize. Bare in mind I've had issues with gout on occasion going all the way back to my 20's. But certainly more so when I'm losing weight, and more so again when eating KETO. But i do believe paying attention to what you eat and maintaining a proper fat (specially the input of Healthy fats high in MTC) to protein ratio does work to help this issue.
I've also started a spreadsheet that precisely monitors my daily changing TDEE based on my new weight every day and my new age and the Calories i eat each day. The accuracy to actual readings thus far as been amazing. It also calculates among other things weight loss % per week on a daily basis. Some may be interested to know that I have not exceeded 1% of body weight loss per week some know it as a "Golden Rule". With exception of the one week period that included the 1 and only fast I extended to 48 hours. Currently I am losing 4.16 pounds per week, Started higher then that and by the end of the year calculations show a drop to around 2.81 or so and I just might reach the 300 pound plateau by years end.
My fiancé at 4'7" is doing equally well albeit vastly different numbers then I, but I have to say she loves the fasting even more then I, as the smaller you are and the smaller your calorie headroom the greater % boost to overall weight loss fast day becomes. For instance I loose about 0.5 pounds 6 days a week and 1 pound on Sundays (So Sundays basically counts as 2 days of normal weight loss). For Lynn it's more like 4 days in one.
At the moment though I'm still trucking along at 420+ pounds plus (Down something over 60lb), and hope to break the 400 pounds plateau by around the end of May. My next weigh in is in 2 weeks from today.
Happy to answer any questions if anyone is interested. My diary is also open to the public.
Thanks everyone!8 -
Congrats on your successful journey so far! If this WOE is working for you fantastic! I have done a few 7 day fast over the last 3 years and I have had a similar experiences to yours. To your point many don't understand the skeletal muscle needed to carry really heavy weight. (grab 2- 50lb weights and carry those all day). I would gladly give up a little muscle to set those weights down and not carry them ever again. As for Dr. Fung, I believe he is taken out of context too frequently. As a kidney doctor, he points to increased insulin production as a cause of some chronic conditions. He promotes fasting to reduce insulin levels. As a diabetic who lost 50 pounds on a high carb diet - I didn't see my blood sugar get any better. However, when I went low carb, the diabetes reversed and disappeared. Keep doing you and what works for you. Good luck!6
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Poobah1972 wrote: »Good day everyone!
I reckon I'll get a bunch more Disagrees bringing this thread back up. But I thought it was worthwhile to up date anyone that was interested in our progress and KETO and Fasting in general.
Seems like you are having fun with it, and if you like the food you are eating, that's great. Personally, for me, I don't see the appeal at all of taking a day off food weekly (I will do it for religious reasons, but I would find it problematic to exercise on a no food day, but even beyond that I just wouldn't like it). But I do get the not having to think about food as often thing (it's one reason I currently enjoy eating just 2 meals/TRE). I would hope that you aren't using it as an excuse to go too low on overall cals, but I understand that when you have a lot to lose faster weight loss can be okay.
Anyway, that I wouldn't like it as a regular thing doesn't mean you shouldn't (and I didn't disagree) -- a friend of mine maintains doing 5/2, which I think I would find very difficult, but for her it's great (she only ever lost vanity weight and doesn't count on the 5 days, only the 2 low cal ones).4 -
@jogman Thank you for your encouraging comments... It is appreciated Sir!
@ lemurcat2 Yeah, it really has been a very interesting and good time thus far. Learned lots and continue to learn. Religious or otherwise, I think it's a very natural part of being a human being for most of our existence, thus a good part why the entire multifueled system developed in us as it is today. (this makes sense in my head). Also, my weekly weight loss does not exceed 1% and I am being totally truthful, when I stated I'm 100% satiated day in day out (With minor exceptions on Sunday of course). Blood monitoring suggests I have likely fully fat adapted as well, and am well capable of producing all my required calories on fasting days, backed up by energy levels, mood etc. I really think I'm doing this safely, and in a healthy way. Granted my average is as @ WeatherJane suggested less then 1600 with the fast in effect.
To counter that I do eat a high proportion of good foods, Berries, Nuts, Fiber, Flax, every single week day... and veggies/salad at least once if not twice daily. I believe I am getting a solid amount of nutrients for the food I eat. As for a Doctor, I don't have a doctor, but as stated in my last post I did see one recently and he seems all for it. Blood work is coming up, and It will be interesting to see.
Again, if my previous posts weren't read... I very much intend to raise calories as my body dictates I should. I suspect this will happen with the addition of exercise, and also with reaching the sub 300lb mark, where I foresee my bodies ability to pull requirements from fat reserves will begin to diminish.
I put a lot of work into this... And I do have the long game in mind. 3 -
Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)3 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Good day everyone!
I reckon I'll get a bunch more Disagrees bringing this thread back up. But I thought it was worthwhile to up date anyone that was interested in our progress and KETO and Fasting in general..
My fiancé and I have now successfully fasted for 11 straight Sundays. We continue to be fully committed to the Keto Life style, and invest much time, thought and research into making this WOE a forever reality (Granted fasting will not be). We are still as excited now as we were when we started, except Sundays have become old hat and just a regular Sunday. We love the food we eat, and continue to be 100% satiated 6 days of the week, and Sundays, just the odd occasion of stomach gurgles etc, that water easily remedies. Energy levels remain high every week 7 days a week, and mood is great, sleep is great... Though we do have the habit of waking up a bit early on Monday morning excited to get the day started (and eat of course).
I did make the decision along the way that I love eating, cooking and baking... And I've decided that I have no interest in attempting a longer fast. And that's that. Sunday just works for us, it's like a day off in the kitchen, it's enjoyable... And come Monday morning, we simply enjoy eating. On the other side of the equation I now know IF, OMAD (windowed approaches) wouldn't fit within our lifestyles. What works is what's important for anyone I believe.
I've started maintaining a couple spreadsheets... One that tracks my blood glucoses, ketones and GKI as well as all other key macro's and total calorie intake. This has proven very useful in clearly indicating my blood glucose and GKI have been steadily improving from the very beginning. This morning in fact hitting all time new records.
Blood Ketones - 2.7
Blood Glucose - 83 (New Record) (by something like 15 points)
GKI - 1.71 (New Record)
This has been a very steady reminder of progress, and I have also been able to see how slight adjustments to macro directly affect those reading. For instance I recently decided to stop having a pudding with 7 grams of carb 5 days a week, and I replaced it with 6-12 grams of Coconut fat as part of my breakfast... The immediate effect of which has raised ketone levels and reduced Glucose levels. I also believed by making that adjustment, it would raise my fat percentage to protein, along with the input of MTC oils, my body would likely require less protein to glucose conversion in light of increased ketone production. This was an effort to reduce uric acid in my blood, and flare ups of gout. The numbers seem to show that this conclusion is a sound one... As Ketones and glucose levels both immediately improved. Basically this move also put me more in line with a stricter Keto profile. Yet we still eat like kings and I average 25 grams of fiber daily, sometimes more sometimes less. Big thanks in part to the keto bread doe recipe we use daily in many fashions.
So yeah, I had 2 flare ups of gout... Very mild ones, that didn't lay me out... But still I needed to do something. I also saw a doctor, got a prescription and am getting a complete blood work up done in about a months time as to allow the prescription and my uric levels to stabilize. Bare in mind I've had issues with gout on occasion going all the way back to my 20's. But certainly more so when I'm losing weight, and more so again when eating KETO. But i do believe paying attention to what you eat and maintaining a proper fat (specially the input of Healthy fats high in MTC) to protein ratio does work to help this issue.
I've also started a spreadsheet that precisely monitors my daily changing TDEE based on my new weight every day and my new age and the Calories i eat each day. The accuracy to actual readings thus far as been amazing. It also calculates among other things weight loss % per week on a daily basis. Some may be interested to know that I have not exceeded 1% of body weight loss per week some know it as a "Golden Rule". With exception of the one week period that included the 1 and only fast I extended to 48 hours. Currently I am losing 4.16 pounds per week, Started higher then that and by the end of the year calculations show a drop to around 2.81 or so and I just might reach the 300 pound plateau by years end.
My fiancé at 4'7" is doing equally well albeit vastly different numbers then I, but I have to say she loves the fasting even more then I, as the smaller you are and the smaller your calorie headroom the greater % boost to overall weight loss fast day becomes. For instance I loose about 0.5 pounds 6 days a week and 1 pound on Sundays (So Sundays basically counts as 2 days of normal weight loss). For Lynn it's more like 4 days in one.
At the moment though I'm still trucking along at 420+ pounds plus (Down something over 60lb), and hope to break the 400 pounds plateau by around the end of May. My next weigh in is in 2 weeks from today.
Happy to answer any questions if anyone is interested. My diary is also open to the public.
Thanks everyone!
Can you expand on the protein to glucose conversion? I am not sure i understand your view point or "benefit". I assume you aare talking gluconeogenesis.2 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)
People spout that non sense that your strength will catch up because they want you to believe you can be as strong or stronger on keto. Its just wrong. Take any fat adapted person and carb load them and you would like see PRs all day long. Even being fat adapted, my strength was 25% down.
The fact is fat requires more oxygen to create ATP. So energy production will be down on a ketogenic diet. Most of the evidence i have seen, to include a recent study confirms that.
Does it matter? Not for the average lifter or dieter.10 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I wasn't meaning to suggest that (just in case you did think maybe I did), and I don't find a 36 (or whatever) hr fast to be unhealthy in someone who doesn't respond to it badly. I just don't prefer it.I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)
I don't think it's so hard as all that to be fat adapted as most of us should be good at using fat as energy already when exercising moderately (i.e., not super hard), but I also agree one can improve one's capacity -- I did a running training plan for a while that was intended to improve on that some by adding in fasted runs and so on (this was not otherwise a plan that recommended low carb, but I wasn't following the utrition plan). I also agree that non keto is usually better for optimal performance (I feel a boost from more carbs w/in individual workouts and I'm not even super low carb, but it doesn't matter for my purposes, and in fact training fasted can be useful in some ways for me, and -- the main point -- prevents any stomach issues when running). I also exercise fasted (as in before I eat that day) most of the time these days, but I do think it can be limiting for some, and I don't really like (again, for me) not being able to do a refeed after (or not to be fancy, just having a meal). I did a casual bike ride for about 60 mins on Good Friday (when I generally do a complete fast day), but I wouldn't have wanted to do anything that involved pushing it (which probably means running or weights or a harder or much longer ride, for me), as I would be concerned it would affect recovery. Of course, if one desires one can fit in the fast on a rest day or something, and maybe others don't feel the same way, it's just something that I find helps. (I only started doing TRE, and not eating until early afternoon when I could push my workout up to noon. I don't like doing anything hard and then waiting hours to eat, which is why when I was in the office every day and worked out early in the morning I'd eat breakfast after. Again, this is my personal preference, not something I am claiming everyone must do.)
Random thoughts about eating and workouts, again not claiming any particular way is best.2 -
Poobah1972 , good for you both. If it is working for you enjoy it! Low carb diet with fasting is a healthy way of life. I have been in low carb diet for years. I do IF 2-3 weeks and do HST training. I love KETO diet too, love the roasted pork, filet mignon, shrimp, cheese, butter. I'd rather use fat as energy than sugar. Best Wishes!
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I love KETO diet too, love the roasted pork, filet mignon, shrimp, cheese, butter. I'd rather use fat as energy than sugar.
I like low carbing too, but pork, filet, shrimp aren't esp high fat, and even cheese and butter in moderation can be included in any diet -- they are hardly exclusive to keto (or even low carb). I ate all those (except I usually prefer olive oil to butter) when not low carbing and yet losing 90 lbs. (I am not anti low carbing, and use it for my own purposes as I prefer higher fat to higher carb on a deficit, but that's overall preferences, and not that I think I can't have lots of leaner proteins and some added fat and cheese on a deficit.)
I'm not sure why one would prefer using fat vs fat and sugar for energy, as I doubt anyone really can tell the difference unless doing hard cardio or other harder exercise that prefers some degree of carb burning/glycogen.8 -
Hey Guys... This is the 100LB loss Update.
And yes both my fiancé and I have enjoyed fasting every Sunday for the past 26 Sundays (36hours).
We still are in love with Keto, and I must have made over 22 loaves our our Keto Bread at this point. lol
But I want to move this conversation away from the Keto and the Fasting a little bit.
So this all started on January 9th for me and January 4th for my fiance... Fasting sundays started not long after that.
I'm down over 101 pounds, and Lynn (4'7" tall) is down 41.2 Pounds.
So what have I been doing since my last post...
On Friday April 23, 2021 - I quit Smoking
On Saturday April 24, 2021 - I started walking
Very quickly I was up to 5 days a week usually Monday through Friday getting up at 4:30am.. Usually doing 30 minutes, and that turned in slogging. Average burn 600-800 calories. I'm getting about 1.5 miles in that time frame. Or on the elliptical 1.6 miles, just missed 1.7 this morning which would of been a PR.
Some time in May I spent like 10 grand building a pretty top of the line Home Gym.. 400lb capacity Elliptical, 1500 Pound commerical power rack, adjustable dumbbells the whole nine yards.
Around the 2nd week of June I hit 400lb's and started using the Elliptical along with walking.
We've been weight training for just over 2 months right now... Lynn loves it too. She's a munchkin powerhouse.
about 2 weeks ago, we installed 100LB Heavy bag and started boxing with the aid of an interval timer.. Had a Bracket made up to hang it right off the front of my power rack. I put it up and take it down to suit my needs. This Saturday I hit my highest calorie burn to date at almost 1300 calories in 1 hour of (15 3 minute rounds with 1 minute rest inbetween)... It was Amazing. I now have 3 solid cardio choices.
And my fiancé also likes boxing the bag, and we got her a trampoline that fits just so in the power rack which she has made part of a circuit, with the bag and a Step...
The weight training is as follows.
Mondays Back and Biceps
Wednesdays Chest and triceps / shoulders
Friday Legs
However I do a little extra back and Bicep work on Thursdays, and extra chest and tricep work on Saturdays for fun... Granted I injured my right shoulder so I've been avoiding chest and triceps with my right arm.. (Only using my left which is weird).
Each workout is around 1.5 hours sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. We got trap bars, barbells, ez bars, swiss bars.. and we use them all and I particularly love the trap bar for deadlifts on Fridays, cause I'm still to front heavy to keep proper form for squats. But I can use the trap bar just fine for deadlifts.
Currently Doing Trap bar Deadlifts for 3 sets of 260 pounds at 10 reps. ( I Didn't hit my 10s last week so I'm trying again this week. lol)
As for food... I've seriously upped my nutrition, on double workout days. I generally burn over 5000 calories 3 on those days, and I've upped my intake to 2200-2400 on average. Non weight training days were upped a bit too, usually between 1700-1800 calories. I figure with the amount of calories I'm burning my body needs it. With exception of Sunday where we don't eat a crumb of nothing.
And here's a few random shots and my current progress...
MY First Boxing Session
Me and my Baby, having fun flexing
Lynn's Progress thus far
My Progress...
Just a cute picture of my Fiancé 😎
I'll check in again sometime I'm sure...
Have an amazing day!20 -
Great progress!2
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Keep going *and adjusting* like the Energizer Bunny you can be‼️2
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Forgot some tidbits some might find useful.
I Had 2 blood tests performed since my last update...
My cholesterol, LDL and HDL are all at "Optimal Levels", and my Cardio Vascular Risk is considered "LOW" (they won't test me again on this its that good.)
I am not pre-Diabetic. My AC1 is 5.1 (They now refuse to even test me on that further... for at least a year .lol)
B12, Ferriten, Salt, Potassium etc are all smack dab in the middle of Normal range. As most everything else. I no longer have cramping issues since taking a keto Electrolyte high in potassium, zinc and magnesium.
My Hemoglobin is borderline low normal which is interesting, as the doc says a Male on Keto should have higher readings but it's fine.
Kidney and liver function appears to be healthy.
Basically I'm as healthy as an ox.. And there really is no need to do another blood test for a year or so.
The only thing is my uric acid levels were very high, and gout was definitely an issue.. But I immediately got a allopurinol prescription then had the first blood test, which precipitated getting a higher dose of alopurinol. At 200mg my uric acid is borderline high. But I'm no longer getting flare ups. Gout and weight loss for me as always ended up in gout more so on Keto of course.
I reckon, as I get closer and closer to normal weight, my uric acid levels will drop, and eventually I won't even need the Allopurinol anymore. At least that's my theory. 3 -
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well done.
great progress both of you.
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Wow! What an amazing journey. You are the real deal!!!! Congratulations and keep posting updates!2
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Congrats man. Keep it up2
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@psuLemon @sarah7591 @paperpudding
Thank you much!
My resting heart rate is judged to be at 69 according to Fitbit, significantly lower then the 78-79 when i started walking in April. I don't even know what it was prior to that, good chance I was in the 80's. 👍2 -
Wooo you're doing great!!! 0
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Poobah1972 wrote: »@psuLemon @sarah7591 @paperpudding
Thank you much!
My resting heart rate is judged to be at 69 according to Fitbit, significantly lower then the 78-79 when i started walking in April. I don't even know what it was prior to that, good chance I was in the 80's. 👍
Hi. I have been doing keto since Feb and am going to start IF 16:8 this week. I am slowly eating later each day. I am also going to cut back on the fat I eat. I am losing but still have a lot of abdominal fat. I do have diabetes and my glucose is much better.
How far do you walk and do you think that is the main thing that helped with HR? My resting is in 80s but it goes higher during the day. I feel fine. I walk about 30 min/day but it is a stroll with my dog who has to sniff everything.1
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