Keto and Fasting has been amazing thus far.
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Congrats on your successful journey so far! If this WOE is working for you fantastic! I have done a few 7 day fast over the last 3 years and I have had a similar experiences to yours. To your point many don't understand the skeletal muscle needed to carry really heavy weight. (grab 2- 50lb weights and carry those all day). I would gladly give up a little muscle to set those weights down and not carry them ever again. As for Dr. Fung, I believe he is taken out of context too frequently. As a kidney doctor, he points to increased insulin production as a cause of some chronic conditions. He promotes fasting to reduce insulin levels. As a diabetic who lost 50 pounds on a high carb diet - I didn't see my blood sugar get any better. However, when I went low carb, the diabetes reversed and disappeared. Keep doing you and what works for you. Good luck!6
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Poobah1972 wrote: »Good day everyone!
I reckon I'll get a bunch more Disagrees bringing this thread back up. But I thought it was worthwhile to up date anyone that was interested in our progress and KETO and Fasting in general.
Seems like you are having fun with it, and if you like the food you are eating, that's great. Personally, for me, I don't see the appeal at all of taking a day off food weekly (I will do it for religious reasons, but I would find it problematic to exercise on a no food day, but even beyond that I just wouldn't like it). But I do get the not having to think about food as often thing (it's one reason I currently enjoy eating just 2 meals/TRE). I would hope that you aren't using it as an excuse to go too low on overall cals, but I understand that when you have a lot to lose faster weight loss can be okay.
Anyway, that I wouldn't like it as a regular thing doesn't mean you shouldn't (and I didn't disagree) -- a friend of mine maintains doing 5/2, which I think I would find very difficult, but for her it's great (she only ever lost vanity weight and doesn't count on the 5 days, only the 2 low cal ones).4 -
@jogman Thank you for your encouraging comments... It is appreciated Sir!
@ lemurcat2 Yeah, it really has been a very interesting and good time thus far. Learned lots and continue to learn. Religious or otherwise, I think it's a very natural part of being a human being for most of our existence, thus a good part why the entire multifueled system developed in us as it is today. (this makes sense in my head). Also, my weekly weight loss does not exceed 1% and I am being totally truthful, when I stated I'm 100% satiated day in day out (With minor exceptions on Sunday of course). Blood monitoring suggests I have likely fully fat adapted as well, and am well capable of producing all my required calories on fasting days, backed up by energy levels, mood etc. I really think I'm doing this safely, and in a healthy way. Granted my average is as @ WeatherJane suggested less then 1600 with the fast in effect.
To counter that I do eat a high proportion of good foods, Berries, Nuts, Fiber, Flax, every single week day... and veggies/salad at least once if not twice daily. I believe I am getting a solid amount of nutrients for the food I eat. As for a Doctor, I don't have a doctor, but as stated in my last post I did see one recently and he seems all for it. Blood work is coming up, and It will be interesting to see.
Again, if my previous posts weren't read... I very much intend to raise calories as my body dictates I should. I suspect this will happen with the addition of exercise, and also with reaching the sub 300lb mark, where I foresee my bodies ability to pull requirements from fat reserves will begin to diminish.
I put a lot of work into this... And I do have the long game in mind.3 -
Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)3 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Good day everyone!
I reckon I'll get a bunch more Disagrees bringing this thread back up. But I thought it was worthwhile to up date anyone that was interested in our progress and KETO and Fasting in general..
My fiancé and I have now successfully fasted for 11 straight Sundays. We continue to be fully committed to the Keto Life style, and invest much time, thought and research into making this WOE a forever reality (Granted fasting will not be). We are still as excited now as we were when we started, except Sundays have become old hat and just a regular Sunday. We love the food we eat, and continue to be 100% satiated 6 days of the week, and Sundays, just the odd occasion of stomach gurgles etc, that water easily remedies. Energy levels remain high every week 7 days a week, and mood is great, sleep is great... Though we do have the habit of waking up a bit early on Monday morning excited to get the day started (and eat of course).
I did make the decision along the way that I love eating, cooking and baking... And I've decided that I have no interest in attempting a longer fast. And that's that. Sunday just works for us, it's like a day off in the kitchen, it's enjoyable... And come Monday morning, we simply enjoy eating. On the other side of the equation I now know IF, OMAD (windowed approaches) wouldn't fit within our lifestyles. What works is what's important for anyone I believe.
I've started maintaining a couple spreadsheets... One that tracks my blood glucoses, ketones and GKI as well as all other key macro's and total calorie intake. This has proven very useful in clearly indicating my blood glucose and GKI have been steadily improving from the very beginning. This morning in fact hitting all time new records.
Blood Ketones - 2.7
Blood Glucose - 83 (New Record) (by something like 15 points)
GKI - 1.71 (New Record)
This has been a very steady reminder of progress, and I have also been able to see how slight adjustments to macro directly affect those reading. For instance I recently decided to stop having a pudding with 7 grams of carb 5 days a week, and I replaced it with 6-12 grams of Coconut fat as part of my breakfast... The immediate effect of which has raised ketone levels and reduced Glucose levels. I also believed by making that adjustment, it would raise my fat percentage to protein, along with the input of MTC oils, my body would likely require less protein to glucose conversion in light of increased ketone production. This was an effort to reduce uric acid in my blood, and flare ups of gout. The numbers seem to show that this conclusion is a sound one... As Ketones and glucose levels both immediately improved. Basically this move also put me more in line with a stricter Keto profile. Yet we still eat like kings and I average 25 grams of fiber daily, sometimes more sometimes less. Big thanks in part to the keto bread doe recipe we use daily in many fashions.
So yeah, I had 2 flare ups of gout... Very mild ones, that didn't lay me out... But still I needed to do something. I also saw a doctor, got a prescription and am getting a complete blood work up done in about a months time as to allow the prescription and my uric levels to stabilize. Bare in mind I've had issues with gout on occasion going all the way back to my 20's. But certainly more so when I'm losing weight, and more so again when eating KETO. But i do believe paying attention to what you eat and maintaining a proper fat (specially the input of Healthy fats high in MTC) to protein ratio does work to help this issue.
I've also started a spreadsheet that precisely monitors my daily changing TDEE based on my new weight every day and my new age and the Calories i eat each day. The accuracy to actual readings thus far as been amazing. It also calculates among other things weight loss % per week on a daily basis. Some may be interested to know that I have not exceeded 1% of body weight loss per week some know it as a "Golden Rule". With exception of the one week period that included the 1 and only fast I extended to 48 hours. Currently I am losing 4.16 pounds per week, Started higher then that and by the end of the year calculations show a drop to around 2.81 or so and I just might reach the 300 pound plateau by years end.
My fiancé at 4'7" is doing equally well albeit vastly different numbers then I, but I have to say she loves the fasting even more then I, as the smaller you are and the smaller your calorie headroom the greater % boost to overall weight loss fast day becomes. For instance I loose about 0.5 pounds 6 days a week and 1 pound on Sundays (So Sundays basically counts as 2 days of normal weight loss). For Lynn it's more like 4 days in one.
At the moment though I'm still trucking along at 420+ pounds plus (Down something over 60lb), and hope to break the 400 pounds plateau by around the end of May. My next weigh in is in 2 weeks from today.
Happy to answer any questions if anyone is interested. My diary is also open to the public.
Thanks everyone!
Can you expand on the protein to glucose conversion? I am not sure i understand your view point or "benefit". I assume you aare talking gluconeogenesis.2 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)
People spout that non sense that your strength will catch up because they want you to believe you can be as strong or stronger on keto. Its just wrong. Take any fat adapted person and carb load them and you would like see PRs all day long. Even being fat adapted, my strength was 25% down.
The fact is fat requires more oxygen to create ATP. So energy production will be down on a ketogenic diet. Most of the evidence i have seen, to include a recent study confirms that.
Does it matter? Not for the average lifter or dieter.10 -
Poobah1972 wrote: »Meant to also mention, I find it interesting that there definitely seems to be somewhat of a double standard(probably not the best term) in the way IF windowed approach is generally widely accepted... As long as you don't go over the 18 to 24 hour maximum fasting window. Yet if I essentially go to sleep for 8 more hours, it tends to rile up a considerable amount of people. (not that I'm suggesting any of the last posters feel that way... Just in general)
I wasn't meaning to suggest that (just in case you did think maybe I did), and I don't find a 36 (or whatever) hr fast to be unhealthy in someone who doesn't respond to it badly. I just don't prefer it.I should also note, some would say once fully fat adapted exercise is actually quite good... even when fasted. Granted you will always have more overall strength on a non keto diet... Glycogen loaded muscle is just going to be better in part due to the inflated cells and better leverage due to internal muscle pressure etc. And There is nothing wrong with Glycogen.. (I'm not a hater)
I don't think it's so hard as all that to be fat adapted as most of us should be good at using fat as energy already when exercising moderately (i.e., not super hard), but I also agree one can improve one's capacity -- I did a running training plan for a while that was intended to improve on that some by adding in fasted runs and so on (this was not otherwise a plan that recommended low carb, but I wasn't following the utrition plan). I also agree that non keto is usually better for optimal performance (I feel a boost from more carbs w/in individual workouts and I'm not even super low carb, but it doesn't matter for my purposes, and in fact training fasted can be useful in some ways for me, and -- the main point -- prevents any stomach issues when running). I also exercise fasted (as in before I eat that day) most of the time these days, but I do think it can be limiting for some, and I don't really like (again, for me) not being able to do a refeed after (or not to be fancy, just having a meal). I did a casual bike ride for about 60 mins on Good Friday (when I generally do a complete fast day), but I wouldn't have wanted to do anything that involved pushing it (which probably means running or weights or a harder or much longer ride, for me), as I would be concerned it would affect recovery. Of course, if one desires one can fit in the fast on a rest day or something, and maybe others don't feel the same way, it's just something that I find helps. (I only started doing TRE, and not eating until early afternoon when I could push my workout up to noon. I don't like doing anything hard and then waiting hours to eat, which is why when I was in the office every day and worked out early in the morning I'd eat breakfast after. Again, this is my personal preference, not something I am claiming everyone must do.)
Random thoughts about eating and workouts, again not claiming any particular way is best.2 -
Poobah1972 , good for you both. If it is working for you enjoy it! Low carb diet with fasting is a healthy way of life. I have been in low carb diet for years. I do IF 2-3 weeks and do HST training. I love KETO diet too, love the roasted pork, filet mignon, shrimp, cheese, butter. I'd rather use fat as energy than sugar. Best Wishes!
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I love KETO diet too, love the roasted pork, filet mignon, shrimp, cheese, butter. I'd rather use fat as energy than sugar.
I like low carbing too, but pork, filet, shrimp aren't esp high fat, and even cheese and butter in moderation can be included in any diet -- they are hardly exclusive to keto (or even low carb). I ate all those (except I usually prefer olive oil to butter) when not low carbing and yet losing 90 lbs. (I am not anti low carbing, and use it for my own purposes as I prefer higher fat to higher carb on a deficit, but that's overall preferences, and not that I think I can't have lots of leaner proteins and some added fat and cheese on a deficit.)
I'm not sure why one would prefer using fat vs fat and sugar for energy, as I doubt anyone really can tell the difference unless doing hard cardio or other harder exercise that prefers some degree of carb burning/glycogen.8 -
Hey Guys... This is the 100LB loss Update.
And yes both my fiancé and I have enjoyed fasting every Sunday for the past 26 Sundays (36hours).
We still are in love with Keto, and I must have made over 22 loaves our our Keto Bread at this point. lol
But I want to move this conversation away from the Keto and the Fasting a little bit.
So this all started on January 9th for me and January 4th for my fiance... Fasting sundays started not long after that.
I'm down over 101 pounds, and Lynn (4'7" tall) is down 41.2 Pounds.
So what have I been doing since my last post...
On Friday April 23, 2021 - I quit Smoking
On Saturday April 24, 2021 - I started walking
Very quickly I was up to 5 days a week usually Monday through Friday getting up at 4:30am.. Usually doing 30 minutes, and that turned in slogging. Average burn 600-800 calories. I'm getting about 1.5 miles in that time frame. Or on the elliptical 1.6 miles, just missed 1.7 this morning which would of been a PR.
Some time in May I spent like 10 grand building a pretty top of the line Home Gym.. 400lb capacity Elliptical, 1500 Pound commerical power rack, adjustable dumbbells the whole nine yards.
Around the 2nd week of June I hit 400lb's and started using the Elliptical along with walking.
We've been weight training for just over 2 months right now... Lynn loves it too. She's a munchkin powerhouse.
about 2 weeks ago, we installed 100LB Heavy bag and started boxing with the aid of an interval timer.. Had a Bracket made up to hang it right off the front of my power rack. I put it up and take it down to suit my needs. This Saturday I hit my highest calorie burn to date at almost 1300 calories in 1 hour of (15 3 minute rounds with 1 minute rest inbetween)... It was Amazing. I now have 3 solid cardio choices.
And my fiancé also likes boxing the bag, and we got her a trampoline that fits just so in the power rack which she has made part of a circuit, with the bag and a Step...
The weight training is as follows.
Mondays Back and Biceps
Wednesdays Chest and triceps / shoulders
Friday Legs
However I do a little extra back and Bicep work on Thursdays, and extra chest and tricep work on Saturdays for fun... Granted I injured my right shoulder so I've been avoiding chest and triceps with my right arm.. (Only using my left which is weird).
Each workout is around 1.5 hours sometimes a little less, sometimes a little more. We got trap bars, barbells, ez bars, swiss bars.. and we use them all and I particularly love the trap bar for deadlifts on Fridays, cause I'm still to front heavy to keep proper form for squats. But I can use the trap bar just fine for deadlifts.
Currently Doing Trap bar Deadlifts for 3 sets of 260 pounds at 10 reps. ( I Didn't hit my 10s last week so I'm trying again this week. lol)
As for food... I've seriously upped my nutrition, on double workout days. I generally burn over 5000 calories 3 on those days, and I've upped my intake to 2200-2400 on average. Non weight training days were upped a bit too, usually between 1700-1800 calories. I figure with the amount of calories I'm burning my body needs it. With exception of Sunday where we don't eat a crumb of nothing.
And here's a few random shots and my current progress...
MY First Boxing Session
Me and my Baby, having fun flexing
Lynn's Progress thus far
My Progress...
Just a cute picture of my Fiancé 😎
I'll check in again sometime I'm sure...
Have an amazing day!20 -
Great progress!2
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Keep going *and adjusting* like the Energizer Bunny you can be‼️2
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Forgot some tidbits some might find useful.
I Had 2 blood tests performed since my last update...
My cholesterol, LDL and HDL are all at "Optimal Levels", and my Cardio Vascular Risk is considered "LOW" (they won't test me again on this its that good.)
I am not pre-Diabetic. My AC1 is 5.1 (They now refuse to even test me on that further... for at least a year .lol)
B12, Ferriten, Salt, Potassium etc are all smack dab in the middle of Normal range. As most everything else. I no longer have cramping issues since taking a keto Electrolyte high in potassium, zinc and magnesium.
My Hemoglobin is borderline low normal which is interesting, as the doc says a Male on Keto should have higher readings but it's fine.
Kidney and liver function appears to be healthy.
Basically I'm as healthy as an ox.. And there really is no need to do another blood test for a year or so.
The only thing is my uric acid levels were very high, and gout was definitely an issue.. But I immediately got a allopurinol prescription then had the first blood test, which precipitated getting a higher dose of alopurinol. At 200mg my uric acid is borderline high. But I'm no longer getting flare ups. Gout and weight loss for me as always ended up in gout more so on Keto of course.
I reckon, as I get closer and closer to normal weight, my uric acid levels will drop, and eventually I won't even need the Allopurinol anymore. At least that's my theory.
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well done.
great progress both of you.
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Wow! What an amazing journey. You are the real deal!!!! Congratulations and keep posting updates!2
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Congrats man. Keep it up2
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@psuLemon @sarah7591 @paperpudding
Thank you much!
My resting heart rate is judged to be at 69 according to Fitbit, significantly lower then the 78-79 when i started walking in April. I don't even know what it was prior to that, good chance I was in the 80's. 👍2 -
Wooo you're doing great!!!0
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Poobah1972 wrote: »@psuLemon @sarah7591 @paperpudding
Thank you much!
My resting heart rate is judged to be at 69 according to Fitbit, significantly lower then the 78-79 when i started walking in April. I don't even know what it was prior to that, good chance I was in the 80's. 👍
Hi. I have been doing keto since Feb and am going to start IF 16:8 this week. I am slowly eating later each day. I am also going to cut back on the fat I eat. I am losing but still have a lot of abdominal fat. I do have diabetes and my glucose is much better.
How far do you walk and do you think that is the main thing that helped with HR? My resting is in 80s but it goes higher during the day. I feel fine. I walk about 30 min/day but it is a stroll with my dog who has to sniff everything.1
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