Keto and Fasting has been amazing thus far.
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janejellyroll wrote: »I think that breaks between meals and no snacking after 7PM are very relevant. It is main times periods when your insulin going down and let your internal system recover from glucose peaks. Your fat burning hormones (about 38 of them allowed to be released and do their valuable work. Hormonal make up is crucial in any centenarians diets , in the blew zones diets. Not a food type makes the blue zoned so healthy, but what people do between the meals.
There are diets based on sweet potato, on lentils, on meat, on coconut palm fruits or palm oil. But the mail feature they have is calories deficit and few times of meals a day (1, 2 or 3 not more)
How do you explain the experiences of people who lose weight and maintain that loss long term while eating frequent meals or eating after 7 PM?
What is the evidence that food choices are irrelevant in the blue zones? Most experts seems to agree there is a combination of food choices AND lifestyle factors at play there, so I'm curious to know what you're citing to dismiss the role that food choices play.
For months in my weight loss journey I ONLY ate after 7 p.m! Fell into a OMAD thing and for a while it worked, then I got hungry earlier and... changed what I was doing to the next thing that worked. There have been a LOT of things that worked in the year I lost weight. OMAD, IF of various lengths and at least twice - while continuing loss - eating about 6 times a day.
The only thing that hasn't changed (macros, frequency, timing, whatever) has been eating between maintenance and 1200 calories about 90% of the time.7 -
If person trying to loose weight from BMI 30 and higher. is one thing. If he/she divides the calories by 5 meals, it become a good meaningful meal. But for person of BMI 20, if you divide his her day calories by 5, it will looks like 4 nuts and 5 raisins. This is only a tip of the iceberg. But the majority of benefits comes from pause between the meals. This is not only about deficit, guys, please understand, this is about HORMONAL SHIFT.
We are not a simple laboratory calorimetric bombs, we all unique metabolically and biochemically individuals, with our own unique processes in each of the trillions cells. Those cells receive nutrients, and not gonna simply burn them as fuel in the isolated bomb, they receive information of how to deal with them, communicate to each other with this information. And the messengers in our body are nothing but hormones, and or special proteins which transfer information about all body cells.
And the beauty and meaning of the processes is not only in the times of receiving nutrients, but also in the time when nothing is coming. Cells have mechanism of mobilization, survival and rejuvenation.
Our mission is only to help our body to reach this time of rejuvenation and stay there for reasonable stretch of time to rip all the benefits.
That's interesting. I actually am a person of BMI 20 (point-something, depending on the day), and neither a large (5'5") nor a young one (65). If you divide my maintenance calories on a day without exercise by 5, the result is roughly 400; on a more normal day, with exercise, it's closer to 500. That's quite a few raisins and nuts, I think?
I don't divide my calories up that way - how I divide them varies by day - but it's rare for me to stop eating them before 7PM. Fairly often, the slight majority of them are after 7PM, sometimes right up to when I brush my teeth before bed, and I've been at a healthy weight for 5+ years now, blood tests and other health markers good, energy and exercise performance ditto, also general health good, so I don't personally perceive a big problem.
I go to bed sometime around 11 or midnight, get up around 7AM, eat for the first time around 8AM, usually. Or is that just 8:16 IF, or thereabouts 😉, since I don't eat while sleeping?
If you thrive on a different pattern, that's great, sincerely.I don't go long distances between eating and generally eat 5 times per day (it varies but breakfast, mid morning snack, lunch, dinner , after dinner snack is my norm with drinks in between that)
That is just me - may or may not apply to anyone else.
I just wonder, do you have something else to do in life? Looks like you only busy with meal preparation. meal consuming, cleaning and thinking what to cook for next meal. What a life!
Ad hominem? That's persuasive.
Also this, having just found it.
My BMI is not 20. My bmi is about 22 right now. I'm 5'5" and 44.
But I maintain on 2200-2400 for TDEE with the occasional much higher activity day I log. That's very in line with Anne per meal if divided by 5 meals.
400-500 at a go. For me that's 2 pieces of toast with sugar free jam 3 pieces of turkey sausage, and a 2 egg cheese omelet. That's 450 calories. I dunno about you, but for me that's a perfectly satisfying amount of food.6 -
my BMI is currently 23 and I am maintaining on that on 1710 calories net. (58 yrs old, height 164cm, weight 62 kg)
I don't do a lot of excercise so some days it is 1800 ish but often just 1710
when I was losing I was on 1460.
One can divide one's meals into 5 (breakfast, mid morning snack, lunch, dinner, after dinner snack) without any meal being only raisins and nuts
Raisins and nuts are quite calorie dense - but my mid morning snack is something like a banana, and main meals look like main meals, not a handful of nuts.
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If your calories such important, so how in the world people managed to slim before those calories were invented?
Even in my life time, there were time just about 20 years ago. nobody counted those calories, especially macros, And anyway people managed to stay slim. I had my weight of 118 lb from high school thru retirement. I still cam fit in my wedding dress
People have been calorie counting for well over 20 years - calorie counting pre dates the internet.
People used to do tedious pen and paper calculations from books way before MFP.
But of course people stayed slim (and some still do) without counting calories, or before calories were invented.
Calories are just a unit of measure.
The energy in food existed before calories were 'invented'
Just like the distance between A and B exists before miles were invented
or people jumping off a cliff fell downwards before gravity was 'invented'
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I just wonder, do you have something else to do in life? Looks like you only busy with meal preparation. meal consuming, cleaning and thinking what to cook for next meal. What a life!
yes actually I have lots more to do in life - I work nearly full time and have a family and am involved in clubs and hobbies.
Quite a good life.
Eating breakfast, mid morning snack, lunch, dinner, after dinner snack doesn't stop me doing any of them - although I do vary it on non work days depending on different things in life
Most of my meals don't take much preparation - cereal or toast for breakfast is easy, mid morning snack is something like a banana, no preparation or cleaning up, I take lunch to work in a lunch box - usually things like fruit, yoghurt, sandwich, takes 5 minutes to pack it and very little cleaning required
I usually have 1 cooked meal per day (dinner) - well, unless one counts toast as 'a cooked meal'
I do prepare dinner or sometimes my husband does or sometimes we go out or buy take away
After dinner we tend to have a coffee and small snack or dessert in front of TV
Am certainly not only busy with meal preparation, consuming, cooking etc - in fact I probably do less of that than many other people.
Meal frequency and timing is purely personal preference - my way works for me.
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May I return to (according to my intepretation) the point of this thread? I have a question about Ketosis. Having dabbled a bit with converting my metabolism to Ketosis, I have discovered that one meal/a few choice snacks, can catapult me out of Ketoland without mercy. I was in Ketosis yesterday and had crispy chicken and a handful of chips and snap...I was sent flying back into normal metabolic world. ....Question. If I fast for a day or so and return back to the strict/rigid/and carb-free and sugar-free diet, will it take the same amount of time to return to Ketosis or will the lack of carbs/sugars speed the process up in relation to the typical 2 to 5 days? Your thought (if we can shift from the all important "pizza-gate" debate?
Thanks
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Do you think it matters if you occasionally go out of ketosis? My understanding is that the main benefit of keto is appetite control and that if you can ride out any cravings from going out of it (eating more carbs or carbs/fat junk type foods), you reenter easily.2
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I think that breaks between meals and no snacking after 7PM are very relevant. It is main times periods when your insulin going down and let your internal system recover from glucose peaks. Your fat burning hormones (about 38 of them allowed to be released and do their valuable work. Hormonal make up is crucial in any centenarians diets , in the blew zones diets. Not a food type makes the blue zoned so healthy, but what people do between the meals.
There are diets based on sweet potato, on lentils, on meat, on coconut palm fruits or palm oil. But the mail feature they have is calories deficit and few times of meals a day (1, 2 or 3 not more)
I eat about 70% of my food after 7pm and I've lost 113 pounds in 11 months. I don't feel like I'm at a significant disadvantage from working 3rd shift and eating lunch and diner after 7pm.
Yeah, I'm a person who finds snacking is unsatisfying so I decided to eat only at meals (3, I'm conventional) when losing and I easily lost 90 lbs (215-125) eating at 7, 12, and 9 most days. Wasn't an issue. Obsessing about dumb stuff like ideal eating/workout times and amount of eating and macros (I do think protein matters and lower carb helps hunger for some, as does WFPB) only made it more difficult to do what made it easier for me. Currently I find 2 meals easier for me (although I was at a lower weight when eating 3, I think it has more to do with other things) and usually eat them around 12 and 7, but my old eating late pattern clearly did not hurt me (and I'm perfectly capable of gaining when eating earlier, less times, or in a shorter window--I've done it!).
Edit: and I ate late bc of work and commuting. I currently eat earlier bc of covid flexibility as even though I go to the office most days now I car pool and do a lot of work from home. When I'm back to the office full time and commute 7 will be completely unrealistic. I used to normally leave the office at 7:30 (or maybe 6:30 if I worked out after work), get home around 8:30, and then make dinner. When younger in a (usually) more stressful job, I'd leave later. The idea that eating everything before 7 is necessary, let alone possible, is bizarre to me.3 -
I'm pretty weirded out, reading back, by the idea that you have 'nothing else in your life' if you're eating multiple snacks in a day.
How freaking long do you think it takes to shove bread in a toaster and smear peanut butter on it, or grab a banana and yogurt, then wash a spoon???13 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I'm pretty weirded out, reading back, by the idea that you have 'nothing else in your life' if you're eating multiple snacks in a day.
How freaking long do you think it takes to shove bread in a toaster and smear peanut butter on it, or grab a banana and yogurt, then wash a spoon???
Or even if it does take some of us a long time - are cooking, baking, gardening, and other related hobbies all lame because they involve food?
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May I return to (according to my intepretation) the point of this thread? I have a question about Ketosis. Having dabbled a bit with converting my metabolism to Ketosis, I have discovered that one meal/a few choice snacks, can catapult me out of Ketoland without mercy. I was in Ketosis yesterday and had crispy chicken and a handful of chips and snap...I was sent flying back into normal metabolic world. ....Question. If I fast for a day or so and return back to the strict/rigid/and carb-free and sugar-free diet, will it take the same amount of time to return to Ketosis or will the lack of carbs/sugars speed the process up in relation to the typical 2 to 5 days? Your thought (if we can shift from the all important "pizza-gate" debate?
Thanks
If keto is for losing weight and that's your goal then it really doesn't matter if you drift in and out of nutritional ketosis because it still comes down to calories. Low carb or ketosis will pretty much do the same thing as far as satiety goes, so if feeling more satiated is working for you, both should be effective. Well, it does for me.2 -
penguinmama87 wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »I'm pretty weirded out, reading back, by the idea that you have 'nothing else in your life' if you're eating multiple snacks in a day.
How freaking long do you think it takes to shove bread in a toaster and smear peanut butter on it, or grab a banana and yogurt, then wash a spoon???
Or even if it does take some of us a long time - are cooking, baking, gardening, and other related hobbies all lame because they involve food?
OMG, I spend SO much time gardening!
And in the colder months I just love to spend hours in the kitchen, cooking and baking.3 -
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May I return to (according to my intepretation) the point of this thread? I have a question about Ketosis. Having dabbled a bit with converting my metabolism to Ketosis, I have discovered that one meal/a few choice snacks, can catapult me out of Ketoland without mercy. I was in Ketosis yesterday and had crispy chicken and a handful of chips and snap...I was sent flying back into normal metabolic world. ....Question. If I fast for a day or so and return back to the strict/rigid/and carb-free and sugar-free diet, will it take the same amount of time to return to Ketosis or will the lack of carbs/sugars speed the process up in relation to the typical 2 to 5 days? Your thought (if we can shift from the all important "pizza-gate" debate?
Thanks
You aren't converting your metabolism, you are changing the substrate for fuel. Even if you get kicked out of ketosis, you will burn down the glycogen stored and get back to increasing ketone production. Just suppress carbs and it will start over.
I'd honestly advise against beginning a pattern of extended fasting as a means to address poor eating the day before. That can lead to a road of binge/restrict cycles.11 -
Good question, YMMV, but I have found it does not take as long for me to get back in ketosis if I go out of it through eating carbs, then it did initiallyMay I return to (according to my intepretation) the point of this thread? I have a question about Ketosis. Having dabbled a bit with converting my metabolism to Ketosis, I have discovered that one meal/a few choice snacks, can catapult me out of Ketoland without mercy. I was in Ketosis yesterday and had crispy chicken and a handful of chips and snap...I was sent flying back into normal metabolic world. ....Question. If I fast for a day or so and return back to the strict/rigid/and carb-free and sugar-free diet, will it take the same amount of time to return to Ketosis or will the lack of carbs/sugars speed the process up in relation to the typical 2 to 5 days? Your thought (if we can shift from the all important "pizza-gate" debate?
Thanks
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wunderkindking wrote: »I'm pretty weirded out, reading back, by the idea that you have 'nothing else in your life' if you're eating multiple snacks in a day.
How freaking long do you think it takes to shove bread in a toaster and smear peanut butter on it, or grab a banana and yogurt, then wash a spoon???
well, yes - especially since the post was aimed at me and I had already said I have 2 snacks per day (well, yes, I guess 2 is 'multiple') ,. one of which is a banana - zero preparation (well, peeling it takes 5 seconds) and zero cleaning up
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Hey guys... Just for fun.. It's Flex Friday.
And I was happily surprised by this picture. Makes me feel good. Got a long way to go, but that's okay.
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Poobah1972 wrote: »Hey guys... Just for fun.. It's Flex Friday.
And I was happily surprised by this picture. Makes me feel good. Got a long way to go, but that's okay.
If that's work, are you sure you're allowed to bring guns in?6 -
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If your calories such important, so how in the world people managed to slim before those calories were invented?
Even in my life time, there were time just about 20 years ago. nobody counted those calories, especially macros, And anyway people managed to stay slim. I had my weight of 118 lb from high school thru retirement. I still cam fit in my wedding dress
Calories were not invented. They've always existed. We didn't always know about them. That doesn't change the fact that people could lose weight if they consumed fewer calories than they burned, even if they didn't understand the mechanism.
People still got sick before germ theory was developed and we understood how illness happened. People can still get pregnant even if they don't know anything about human reproduction. Our minds don't have to comprehend the mechanism of natural events in order for our bodies to be impacted by them.
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https://youtu.be/HaZmhuonGIs
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