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Fitness and diet myths that just won't go away

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Replies

  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited November 2022
    ythannah wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis, specifically in my spine. I've been lifting for roughly 10 years now and, per a chiropractor and a physiotherapist, I need to continue lifting. My GP knows nothing about exercise, I don't even ask her.
    You can do whatever you want, including hurting yourself, but you may want to look into what chiropractors, physiotherapists and doctors actually know. Let's just say that not asking someone is not generally considered the best strategy to find out what they actually know. As for chiropractic, see lecture 3 of Harriet Hall's series on science-based medicine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxZmDRkQnI
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.
    Actually, the heading says "Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author."

    You are perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I have absolutely nothing against ideas that are being challenged. I welcome it. It is how knowledge is acquired, corrected and improved. If we did not have that process, medicine (and the rest of science) would never advance. You are welcome to utterly destroy what I say. As Nicolas Boileau said, "du choc des idées jaillit la lumière". The only type of comment I would not accept is something like "you are an idiot". I may well be one, but that doesn't say anything about the validity of my argument.

    That said, I was reacting to what you wrote. You wrote about "older people", and about not lifting, regardless of weight. I would point out that there is no accepted definition for "older people", although it is often used as a euphemism for "old", but then there is no accepted definition for that either. In medicine, 65+ is usually seen as "elderly" but even that is not a definition set in stone.

    Second, I have a hard time to accept that doctors would advise people not to lift anything, regardless of weight. That would make daily life impossible for them. How are they to go grocery shopping, to prepare food or even drink a coffee if they are not supposed to lift anything?


  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,598 Member
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.
    Actually, the heading says "Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author."

    You are perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I have absolutely nothing against ideas that are being challenged. I welcome it. It is how knowledge is acquired, corrected and improved. If we did not have that process, medicine (and the rest of science) would never advance. You are welcome to utterly destroy what I say. As Nicolas Boileau said, "du choc des idées jaillit la lumière". The only type of comment I would not accept is something like "you are an idiot". I may well be one, but that doesn't say anything about the validity of my argument.

    That said, I was reacting to what you wrote. You wrote about "older people", and about not lifting, regardless of weight. I would point out that there is no accepted definition for "older people", although it is often used as a euphemism for "old", but then there is no accepted definition for that either. In medicine, 65+ is usually seen as "elderly" but even that is not a definition set in stone.

    Second, I have a hard time to accept that doctors would advise people not to lift anything, regardless of weight. That would make daily life impossible for them. How are they to go grocery shopping, to prepare food or even drink a coffee if they are not supposed to lift anything?


    For decades, doctors and lymphedema specialists told breast cancer survivors who'd had axillary lymph nodes removed not to lift anything over 5 pounds with the affected arm ever again. Yes, that would make normal life nearly impossible. A gallon of milk weighs around 8 pounds.

    This advice was still somewhat current when I was diagnosed/treated in 2000.

    Fortunately, better science was coming along, and it was demonstrated that this advice was wrong, and perhaps even counter-productive. It became clear that reasonable (cautious, progressive) upper body repetitive-resistance exercise was not dangerous, and possibly was even protective. I was enrolled in a study that was part of that scientific evolution: It looked at breast cancer survivor rowers.

    This (above) is not an argument that doctors are stupid or uncaring. But they will give the advice that they sincerely believe is best for managing the patient's condition, in general. If that advice screws up the patient's everyday life, it will be up to the patient to figure out the risk tradeoffs.
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,653 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.
    Actually, the heading says "Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author."

    You are perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I have absolutely nothing against ideas that are being challenged. I welcome it. It is how knowledge is acquired, corrected and improved. If we did not have that process, medicine (and the rest of science) would never advance. You are welcome to utterly destroy what I say. As Nicolas Boileau said, "du choc des idées jaillit la lumière". The only type of comment I would not accept is something like "you are an idiot". I may well be one, but that doesn't say anything about the validity of my argument.

    That said, I was reacting to what you wrote. You wrote about "older people", and about not lifting, regardless of weight. I would point out that there is no accepted definition for "older people", although it is often used as a euphemism for "old", but then there is no accepted definition for that either. In medicine, 65+ is usually seen as "elderly" but even that is not a definition set in stone.

    Second, I have a hard time to accept that doctors would advise people not to lift anything, regardless of weight. That would make daily life impossible for them. How are they to go grocery shopping, to prepare food or even drink a coffee if they are not supposed to lift anything?


    For decades, doctors and lymphedema specialists told breast cancer survivors who'd had axillary lymph nodes removed not to lift anything over 5 pounds with the affected arm ever again. Yes, that would make normal life nearly impossible. A gallon of milk weighs around 8 pounds.

    This advice was still somewhat current when I was diagnosed/treated in 2000.

    Fortunately, better science was coming along, and it was demonstrated that this advice was wrong, and perhaps even counter-productive. It became clear that reasonable (cautious, progressive) upper body repetitive-resistance exercise was not dangerous, and possibly was even protective. I was enrolled in a study that was part of that scientific evolution: It looked at breast cancer survivor rowers.

    This (above) is not an argument that doctors are stupid or uncaring. But they will give the advice that they sincerely believe is best for managing the patient's condition, in general. If that advice screws up the patient's everyday life, it will be up to the patient to figure out the risk tradeoffs.

    Exactly. I had a large adrenal tumour removed in 2014. The advice then, and since, was not to lift any weights or do any “vigorous” exercise. Why? Because surgeons are incredibly skilled but most are not trained or educated in recovery (hence the surgeon I work with being different as he
    pioneers treatments which include pre and post operative care). Surgeons aren’t taught modules of post op recovery: best friend’s wife is an ophthalmologic surgeon and she told me to go and see a rehab specialist as soon as immediate recovery was completed. She was open about the fact that most doctors and surgeons don’t know about longer term recovery.
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,371 Member
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis, specifically in my spine. I've been lifting for roughly 10 years now and, per a chiropractor and a physiotherapist, I need to continue lifting. My GP knows nothing about exercise, I don't even ask her.
    You can do whatever you want, including hurting yourself, but you may want to look into what chiropractors, physiotherapists and doctors actually know. Let's just say that not asking someone is not generally considered the best strategy to find out what they actually know. As for chiropractic, see lecture 3 of Harriet Hall's series on science-based medicine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxZmDRkQnI

    My doctor doesn't even know what a deadlift is. The only thing she's ever told me about weightlifting is "Don't hurt yourself". Her idea of exercise advice is to parrot the standard 20 minutes a day cardio recommendation. Awesome.

    What I know is that applying resistance is the only chance I have to (maybe) prevent further deterioration of my bones.
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 34,598 Member
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.
    Actually, the heading says "Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author."

    You are perfectly welcome to disagree with me. I have absolutely nothing against ideas that are being challenged. I welcome it. It is how knowledge is acquired, corrected and improved. If we did not have that process, medicine (and the rest of science) would never advance. You are welcome to utterly destroy what I say. As Nicolas Boileau said, "du choc des idées jaillit la lumière". The only type of comment I would not accept is something like "you are an idiot". I may well be one, but that doesn't say anything about the validity of my argument.

    That said, I was reacting to what you wrote. You wrote about "older people", and about not lifting, regardless of weight. I would point out that there is no accepted definition for "older people", although it is often used as a euphemism for "old", but then there is no accepted definition for that either. In medicine, 65+ is usually seen as "elderly" but even that is not a definition set in stone.

    Second, I have a hard time to accept that doctors would advise people not to lift anything, regardless of weight. That would make daily life impossible for them. How are they to go grocery shopping, to prepare food or even drink a coffee if they are not supposed to lift anything?


    For decades, doctors and lymphedema specialists told breast cancer survivors who'd had axillary lymph nodes removed not to lift anything over 5 pounds with the affected arm ever again. Yes, that would make normal life nearly impossible. A gallon of milk weighs around 8 pounds.

    This advice was still somewhat current when I was diagnosed/treated in 2000.

    Fortunately, better science was coming along, and it was demonstrated that this advice was wrong, and perhaps even counter-productive. It became clear that reasonable (cautious, progressive) upper body repetitive-resistance exercise was not dangerous, and possibly was even protective. I was enrolled in a study that was part of that scientific evolution: It looked at breast cancer survivor rowers.

    This (above) is not an argument that doctors are stupid or uncaring. But they will give the advice that they sincerely believe is best for managing the patient's condition, in general. If that advice screws up the patient's everyday life, it will be up to the patient to figure out the risk tradeoffs.

    Exactly. I had a large adrenal tumour removed in 2014. The advice then, and since, was not to lift any weights or do any “vigorous” exercise. Why? Because surgeons are incredibly skilled but most are not trained or educated in recovery (hence the surgeon I work with being different as he
    pioneers treatments which include pre and post operative care). Surgeons aren’t taught modules of post op recovery: best friend’s wife is an ophthalmologic surgeon and she told me to go and see a rehab specialist as soon as immediate recovery was completed. She was open about the fact that most doctors and surgeons don’t know about longer term recovery.
    .

    I was lucky. Post-treatment, a lot of medical sources were giving that "don't ever lift more than 5 pounds with your left arm" advice.

    I asked my surgeon about it. He shrugged, and said something like this: "The lymphedema clinics see people who got lymphedema, and they try to figure out what triggered it, and give advice based on those conclusions. I see those patients, plus all the people who had the surgery, did the same things, and didn't get lymphedema. I think it's important to avoid injury to that arm, so be carefully progressive, but plenty of women lift weights after surgery and do just fine." The studies were just starting to come out, putting more formal evidence to his view of it.

    Some (few) doctors still push the outdated, life-limiting advice.
  • ghrmj
    ghrmj Posts: 86 Member
    edited November 2022
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.

    Who is telling you this? Your doctor? I am almost 10 years older than you and have always been told that some sort of resistance training/lifting is beneficial. I am curious as to who is telling average middle aged people to not lift even light weights.
  • claireychn074
    claireychn074 Posts: 1,653 Member
    ghrmj wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.

    Who is telling you this? Your doctor? I am almost 10 years older than you and have always been told that some sort of resistance training/lifting is beneficial. I am curious as to who is telling average middle aged people to not lift even light weights.
    Endocrinologist, hepatobiliary oncologist, cancer nurse, GP - I could go on 🤣 As @AnnPT77 said above, it was standard advice for post-cancer patients for many years. Not the medical professionals’ fault - it’s what they had been instructed was right. But it’s not 🤷‍♂️
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,371 Member
    AnnPT77 wrote: »

    One of my friends (fellow rower), almost 10 years older than me (76) started lifting in her 30s, probably 1980s. She told me that she - working as a hair stylist - never told her clients back then, because they would've dropped her. Now, she's one of the most physically robust - maybe the most robust - older woman I know. And she's still lifting.

    In the mid 80s, two young women stand out for me. One had done a degree in fitness and was a regular gym-goer, including lifting. Another, a classmate in undergrad, was also an avid lifter and really encouraged me to join her, saying I'd get definition really fast because my bodyfat was so low. At the time I just politely declined while thinking to myself, "Definition? What's that? And why do I want it?" :D
  • Sinisterbarbie1
    Sinisterbarbie1 Posts: 711 Member
    I was in high school in the 80s and played soccer and volleyball, we did weight training (not dead lifting but free weights because school gyms didn’t have anything else). We even had a unit in our normal gym class where all the boys and girls did weight training and calisthenics. We also all did gymnastics, and field hockey. And snowshoeing in the winter along with more common stuff like basketball, track, soccer, volleyball. I went to a public high school - nothing fancy. No one was particularly socially advanced or progressive, but we all also took home ec (sewing and cooking) and wood shop and metal shop. My mom still had the napkinholders and tin boxes I made when I helped her pare down to move. I recognize that I am a bit younger, but the high school teachers in charge of my education in rural NY had to have come by their views and attitudes somewhere.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited November 2022
    AnnPT77 wrote: »
    For decades, doctors and lymphedema specialists told breast cancer survivors who'd had axillary lymph nodes removed not to lift anything over 5 pounds with the affected arm ever again. Yes, that would make normal life nearly impossible. A gallon of milk weighs around 8 pounds.
    Well then, that is certainly more realistic. That said, I never lift a gallon of milk, becuse I don't drink milk. <giggle>
    This (above) is not an argument that doctors are stupid or uncaring. But they will give the advice that they sincerely believe is best for managing the patient's condition, in general. If that advice screws up the patient's everyday life, it will be up to the patient to figure out the risk tradeoffs.
    In that case, you'll get no argument from me except confirmation that evolution can be slow and that it is likely to become even slower until we find a livable solution to the current speed at which our knowledge is growing. After all, doctors' heads are not growing at the same speed and even if they did, there is only so much time to stuff them with new knowledge while the patients are sitting in the waiting room yelling and screaming in pain and despair. Something has to change and it is probably not the addition of more specialists.
  • ghrmj
    ghrmj Posts: 86 Member
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    ghrmj wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I rarely outright disagree with people as I think we all have our own lived experiences, learned outcomes and scientific knowledge. But I disagree with you because I think you misunderstood what I meant. I’m not on about people in their 60s or 70s with osteoporosis suddenly maxing out on DLs with no prior experience. I’m on about the average person, over a certain age (for context I’m 48) who has been told to stop lifting even LIGHT weights. Now, women should actually lift (yes of course it should be done safely and appropriately) but our bones thin more than men’s as we approach the menopause. We need weight bearing exercise. Added to that, it helps to slow or even reduce sarcopenia, which helps to prevent falls and this reduces risk of serious injury as we get older. For info, I work with one of the UK’s leading orthopaedic surgeons who pioneered rapid recovery from hip surgery and who has the country’s best outcome rates. He gets his clients to take exercise before and after surgery - including lifting. So I’m talking both from personal lived experience and medical knowledge.

    Who is telling you this? Your doctor? I am almost 10 years older than you and have always been told that some sort of resistance training/lifting is beneficial. I am curious as to who is telling average middle aged people to not lift even light weights.
    Endocrinologist, hepatobiliary oncologist, cancer nurse, GP - I could go on 🤣 As @AnnPT77 said above, it was standard advice for post-cancer patients for many years. Not the medical professionals’ fault - it’s what they had been instructed was right. But it’s not 🤷‍♂️

    Oh okay - sorry I missed the cancer patient part - when you said "average person" I didn't realize you meant post cancer.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    edited December 2022
    shaumom wrote: »
    That if you eat the right things and exercise, then you won't get sick.

    I'm not saying that taking care of one's body isn't important, but there seems to be a myth that we can't catch bad diseases, or develop diseases based on our genetics, as long as we eat 'healthy' food and exercise.
    You are right.

    I am guessing that is because people aren't being taught to realise that biology/reality is not a black-and-white thing. Eating healthfully will reduce the probability of illness, but most definitely not even remotely eliminate it.

    This problem is everywhere. Just think of the problems caused by people who refuse(d) to wear masks or get vaccinated because "they don't stop COVID". They are right. They don't stop COVID, but they significantly reduce the probability of catching it and they significantly reduce the probability of dying from it.

    We have seen something similar a few decades ago when seatbelts became mandatory in cars. The claim was that seatbelts don't prevent accidents, and indeed they don't. In fact, they sometimes even make the consequences of accidents worse. However, statistically, they are a Big Win for society.

    The example you give is just another iteration of the same old problem.
  • Mouse_Potato
    Mouse_Potato Posts: 1,513 Member
    Just this weekend I had a supposed fitness and nutrition coach tell me that I can't lose weight if I eat after 6:00 PM.
  • magster4isu
    magster4isu Posts: 632 Member
    "Body recomposition isn't possible with a calorie deficit"
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    Mouse_Potato wrote: »
    Just this weekend I had a supposed fitness and nutrition coach tell me that I can't lose weight if I eat after 6:00 PM.
    Yeah, they aren't the one to go to for nutrition advice. Lol, how many people in other countries eat after 9pm for dinner?


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    magster4isu wrote: »
    "Body recomposition isn't possible with a calorie deficit"
    Gaining muscle is definitely a bit harder on a calorie deficit since it's catabolic whereas building muscle is anabolic. Your nutrition would have to be spot on especially with protein intake.


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

  • nossmf
    nossmf Posts: 12,057 Member
    My family rarely eats dinner before 7pm, and sometimes not until after 8pm. 9pm would be pushing it due to my tendency to get heartburn from lying down too soon after a meal.
  • BartBVanBockstaele
    BartBVanBockstaele Posts: 623 Member
    @Hiawassee88
    I wholeheartedly agree. The only thing that makes or breaks weight loss is an energy deficit. Nothing else and even that only needs to be accomplished on average. There are a whole bunch of ways to get to a deficit but that is important only to a specific person. The energy deficit is what counts. Whatever works, works. Whatever doesn't, doesn't.
  • Harleyb87
    Harleyb87 Posts: 279 Member
    My 2 favorites are
    1. Your body will go into starvation mode
    2. If your not losing weight up your calories
  • springlering62
    springlering62 Posts: 8,657 Member
    Harleyb87 wrote: »
    My 2 favorites are
    1. Your body will go into starvation mode
    2. If your not losing weight up your calories

    Mmmmmmmm I DO lose weight when I increase calories. In fact, am doing that right now, and expect to be at my lowest in months when I weigh in tomorrow.

    Sorry! 🦄

    When I stall higher than I’d like for maintenance, or notice that I’m nap’ish in the afternoon, bumping the calories up always kicks things in gear. I think for some folks, either can indicate under-fueling.


    Yeah, blaming starvation mode makes me want to reach through and slap some folks. They’re also usually the ones under eating, tired, low energy, and hitting it too hard. Suggestions to increase fall on deaf ears.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    BartBVanBockstaele wrote: »
    claireychn074 wrote: »
    That lifting weights as you get older is too dangerous. We’ve had conversations about whether heavy deadlifts are age appropriate on here, but I am still astounded by medical personnel who think people over a certain age shouldn’t lift - regardless of weight. I’ve been told many times that I should ease back on my lifting and do something “easier” like Pilates or yoga (and that’s probably another fitness myth - I don’t think either of those is easier!).
    It is not only a matter of "easier" but also a matter of being "less dangerous". Older people are at higher risk of osteoporosis, and lifting weights is very dangerous for them. Whether or not it is actually harmful will depend on their specific situation, which is why a conversation with a doctor is recommended before doing any exercise, including weight lifting. While such conversations (and acting on them) may not eliminate bad outcomes, they will almost certainly reduce their probability.

    I have recently been diagnosed with osteoporosis, specifically in my spine. I've been lifting for roughly 10 years now and, per a chiropractor and a physiotherapist, I need to continue lifting. My GP knows nothing about exercise, I don't even ask her.
    You can do whatever you want, including hurting yourself, but you may want to look into what chiropractors, physiotherapists and doctors actually know. Let's just say that not asking someone is not generally considered the best strategy to find out what they actually know. As for chiropractic, see lecture 3 of Harriet Hall's series on science-based medicine.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKxZmDRkQnI

    Apparently you don't understand that "per a chiropractor and a physiotherapist" means that's what a chiropractor and a physiotherapist told them. So they have looked into what a chiropractor and a physiotherapist actually know, as well as what their doctor knows (apparently not much, unsurprisingly).
  • ozitelli
    ozitelli Posts: 1 Member
    Any thoughts about microbiomes and gut health? I know it’s becoming a widely researched area.

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