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no sugar or flour, food addiction?
Replies
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Speaking purely from a personal point of view, I believe I have an addictive personality but I’m on the fence about whether I believe food can be addictive. What I do know is, I often found it VERY difficult to moderate my intake of certain kind of foods and my weight yo-yoed for over 30 years. During periods of dieting when I didn’t abstain from any food types, so much of my day was taken up thinking about how much chocolate, ice cream, biscuits, etc, I could allow myself while still trying to eat a good balance of healthy foods as well. I always wanted to eat more sugary ‘treats’, and I was never satisfied as one small bar of chocolate just made me want to eat another. During periods of successful dieting, I was able to control this, and I successfully reached my goal weight on a number of occasions over a 30 year+ period. My problem was I never was able to maintain my weight loss, and usually within about 3 months, I’d returned to my old habits and the weight piled back on.
By the end of 2013, I was hitting 16 stone, I had dangerously high cholesterol, I was struggling to get out of bed and the bath, and I was just generally feeling low about how far I’d let myself go AGAIN. I knew something had to change.
On 1.1.14, I started my final diet. I knew I needed to do something different and I made the personal decision to abstain from what I believed were my trigger foods. For me that was chocolate, sweets, biscuits, cakes and ice cream. On that day, I never, ever thought I’d keep it up for ever but as of today, I have continued to abstain. I am over 6 stones lighter, and have successfully maintained this lower weight for over 6 years. I eat over 2000 calories a day, eat plenty of crisps and other snacks but have to restrain myself from eating a whole pizza more than twice a week!
I know lots of people won’t agree with my choice, but it works for me and I’m happy. Not having to battle with myself every single day about how many biscuits or sweets I can eat, or if I eat a bit of cake in the staff room what will I not eat later, etc, etc, etc is bliss. It wouldn’t be for everyone but it’s the best food decision I’ve ever made. Do I miss sweet treats… yes, occasionally but only occasionally. The benefits of maintaining a healthy weight for over 6 years far outweigh the occasional times when I’d like to go for afternoon tea, or eat a McFlurry!
Sorry if I’ve verged off the OP’s original question too much.5 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
Are you someone who lives with chronic nausea?
I am.
And I said what I said.9 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
yes it is. There are packs that only have 6 cookies inside. If i have a cup a of milk, i can easily finish those 6 cookies in 5 minutes or less. So, if i have the calories ,and i have covered all my other needs for the day,and i feel like it, i may eat the whole pack. Just like i will eat a whole domino's pizza by myself. But other than that pizza i won't be eating anything else for the day. It's still a choice if i 'm willing to eat a whole pizza and nothing else, or half a pizza and a ''proper'' meal the rest of my day. I am not addicted to it. I can choose to eat or not eat it.
For referance, i eat a domino's pizza about once every 3 months, and i think the last time i ate a whole pack of cookies was about 8 months ago.
Right now I have about 6 packs of cookies in my pantry .They've been sitting there for close to 4 months. About once a month i open a pack and eat 4 cookies a day for 4 days. So to answer your question, yes it is moderating as far as i see it.
Maybe a snowflake or 2 out the but I have never been around a normal weight adult and I've seen eat or they claim to eat whole pizzas at a sitting.
Ever, not just as a "splurge". Seems like a train ticket to weight issues. Just my opinion, I'm sure others will have ones that differ.
Just because you've never experienced something doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
When I was my lightest adult weight (ie "normal" BMI) I could polish off a large domino's in one sitting, no problem. Before you say that that was my problem and is the reason I'm now overweight, I also didn't own a car and cycled and walked everywhere, did 6 hours of martial arts a week and spent 1-2 hours in the gym a week. I now don't do all of that, and as an overweight adult, I can no longer eat a whole large domino's pizza.
So, you know, now you can say that you've met someone who, as a normal weight adult, ate a whole pizza in one sitting (and I maintained that normal weight for 3 years and enjoyed a lot of pizza)12 -
I ate an entire medium pizza LAST NIGHT. I am at a BMI of roughly 21. I could not have, ironically, done that when I was heavier. Now? Sure. (That was also the ONLY thing I ate yesterday, because it was a really, really, hectic day.)4
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I don't know whether some people have food addiction. I suspect there's not physical addiction in the same sense as there would be to (for example) addictive narcotics, but there are certainly psychological dependencies, and sometimes cravings. People have associations with food, learned behaviors related to comfort and reward - it can be pretty complicated and fraught.
Agree with this. People can definitely have individual foods they struggle to control for emotion reasons and perhaps a psychological addiction. I also think some can have what could be called an eating addiction, where just the process of eating (esp foods they like, but with bingers and such it can often be anything), where it's essentially a dysfunctional coping method or self medicating of sorts and at least somewhat like substance addictions.
What I don't really believe is that people can be addicted to ingredients, like flour or sugar, or that they are likely to consistently react to every food with those ingredients (or containing starch or sugar, like a plain potato or every fruit) the same, and I certainly don't believe that people are addicted to macros on their own (like carbs or fat).
I do think lots of tasty foods have a combination of macros and ingredients that appeal to various people, so they may well be foods people are drawn to overeat or have issues controlling (especially since the same foods are often high in calories per volume).I think this is my own personal weird thing, but I really, really don't like thinking of it in dramatic terms, myself. It doesn't help me. Mostly, it works better for me to think of it as a fun science-fair experiment, that I should keep working on, using some science and some hard-won self knowledge, until I get the outcome I want. YMMV.
I feel the same.4 -
MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
Are you someone who lives with chronic nausea?
I am.
And I said what I said.
I had chronic nausea temporarily (for around 6 months) from chemotherapy on a 3-week repeat. Lemon drop hard candy and saltine crackers were lifesavers, in nearly a literal sense. Toward the latter part of each cycle, I could eat more variously and nutritiously, but there's a certain set of extreme circumstances where nutrition gives way to what a person can keep down, in the definition of "healthy eating". The medical team's advice was indeed "eat what you can keep down, and plenty of it if possible". Raw unpeeled veggies were discouraged, strongly, although that advice differs between teams, I think. (It's about how high a load of bad microorganisms a healthy body can tolerate, vs. an immune-compromised one, basically.)11 -
I don't know whether some people have food addiction. I suspect there's not physical addiction in the same sense as there would be to (for example) addictive narcotics, but there are certainly psychological dependencies, and sometimes cravings. People have associations with food, learned behaviors related to comfort and reward - it can be pretty complicated and fraught.
Agree with this. People can definitely have individual foods they struggle to control for emotion reasons and perhaps a psychological addiction. I also think some can have what could be called an eating addiction, where just the process of eating (esp foods they like, but with bingers and such it can often be anything), where it's essentially a dysfunctional coping method or self medicating of sorts and at least somewhat like substance addictions.
What I don't really believe is that people can be addicted to ingredients, like flour or sugar, or that they are likely to consistently react to every food with those ingredients (or containing starch or sugar, like a plain potato or every fruit) the same, and I certainly don't believe that people are addicted to macros on their own (like carbs or fat).
I do think lots of tasty foods have a combination of macros and ingredients that appeal to various people, so they may well be foods people are drawn to overeat or have issues controlling (especially since the same foods are often high in calories per volume).I think this is my own personal weird thing, but I really, really don't like thinking of it in dramatic terms, myself. It doesn't help me. Mostly, it works better for me to think of it as a fun science-fair experiment, that I should keep working on, using some science and some hard-won self knowledge, until I get the outcome I want. YMMV.
I feel the same.
I can overeat things like roasted salted pepitas and roasted dry edamame, which only contain the nut/bean and salt. In my case I know it's the salt + crunch that makes me want to eat more, so do have to be cautious when I eat things like this. However, I would never just eat salt by itself. I also think the act of crunching/chewing hard things in and of itself can be a stress reliever...although unfortunately I wouldn't get the same satisfaction out of eating celery or even an apple (which I love, but don't overeat).1 -
I *have* eaten salt by itself due to cravings. Straight table salt. Pour in hand, toss in mouth. Repeat erratically through day.
However, I should say that:.
a-.) my BP .tends. .to be low
and
b-) my diet overall tends toward pretty low sodium.
Sugar eaten that way though? No. No way.3 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I *have* eaten salt by itself due to cravings. Straight table salt. Pour in hand, toss in mouth. Repeat erratically through day.
However, I should say that:.
a-.) my BP .tends. .to be low
and
b-) my diet overall tends toward pretty low sodium.
Sugar eaten that way though? No. No way.
Now that you mention your BP being low, mine tends to run low, too. Never made that correlation until now.2 -
wunderkindking wrote: »I *have* eaten salt by itself due to cravings. Straight table salt. Pour in hand, toss in mouth. Repeat erratically through day.
However, I should say that:.
a-.) my BP .tends. .to be low
and
b-) my diet overall tends toward pretty low sodium.
Sugar eaten that way though? No. No way.
Ditto to the salt and low blood pressure, although my salt of choice was grey coarse and I nibbled at it.
I felt it was a bad habit (but not an addiction) and gave it up several Lents back and have not picked it back up.
When it comes to sugar though, I want fat with it.3 -
kshama2001 wrote: »wunderkindking wrote: »I *have* eaten salt by itself due to cravings. Straight table salt. Pour in hand, toss in mouth. Repeat erratically through day.
However, I should say that:.
a-.) my BP .tends. .to be low
and
b-) my diet overall tends toward pretty low sodium.
Sugar eaten that way though? No. No way.
Ditto to the salt and low blood pressure, although my salt of choice was grey coarse and I nibbled at it.
I felt it was a bad habit (but not an addiction) and gave it up several Lents back and have not picked it back up.
When it comes to sugar though, I want fat with it.
I mean I am better off/more likely to salt my food than just eat salt, regardless. The thing for me turned up immediately after I fell into cooking low sodium for my husband (who does need it) so I tend to think it was an actual thing. This point I just put the salt ON things (apples, watermelon, salted dark chocolate, or my actual meal) but at the time it was pretty bizarrely separated from my desire for anything else.
That said I absolutely and totally have zero desire to eat Just Sugar. Sweet things, yeah, but like you mostly with fat. Ie: Baked things and candy.0 -
Speakeasy76 wrote: »
It's not an addiction. How do you get rid of alcohol, gambling and drugs out of addiction? By allowing it to be moderated? Of course not. You have to RID yourself of the habit completely to not fall to it again. So how does one rid themselves of food?Walkywalkerson wrote: »Food addiction / obsession is very real IMO
How do people get so out of control with their weight - weighing over 600lbs etc ..without it?
Medicating whatever emotional disorder they have with food until they're bedbound.
If that isn't addiction I don't know what is!
It's a DISORDER. Mostly a mental one. People who get morbidly obese aren't food addicted, it just happens to be easy for them instead of drugs. When people who get gastric bypass aren't treated with therapy, they can turn to alcohol, gambling or something else since they can't eat anymore without being sick. It's the mental behavioral disorder that causes it. Not a physical addiction to food.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
It seems like you are using the terms "addiction" and "addictive" interchangeably. I also think it's not a strong argument to say that you can't have an addiction to food just because one needs food to survive and therefore can't completely abstain from it to recover. Are certain foods inherently addictive to some who are gentically/environmentally predisposed to addiction? Meh, that could be argued, although it's been pretty well documented that certain foods are much easier to overeat than others and produce more of that dopamine than others...which is why almost no one would binge on carrots as opposed to cookies. Is it the food/food combinations itself or just the taste and people's memories surrounding it could be argued for sure. Can people have an addiction to food that is "mental?" Well yes, all types of addiction are considered a mental illness, and addiction to alcohol or drugs is a mixture of physical dependence and brain chemistry. This is why some people can drink in moderation and some can't. If it were just the alcohol itself, than anyone who ever drank it would become addicted. Same thing with painkillers....although there are some substances that are inherently more addictive than others. I think the current idea with addiction that it's the surge of dopamine that the user gets from using that they're looking to repeat (different than physical dependence), no matter the substance. It just so happens that some substances (e.g., illicit drugs) produce more powerful effects than other substances.
I used to self-medicate with alcohol, but now I can drink moderately, which for me is about a drink and a half once per quarter. I inherited several milk crates full of assorted booze from an ex-roommate that have mostly been just sitting in a cabinet for years. Debating whether to bother taking them with me when I move. I'll probably toss them.
It was actually a lot easier for me to stop abusing alcohol than it is to stop self-soothing with food. Because of course, we need the latter to live.6 -
brenn24179 wrote: »Do you think there is food addiction? Some people say dont eat sugar or flour. That seems like a hard way to live, not ever having a cookie? They say they dont struggle. What do you think? I know I keep gaining and losing the same 5 pounds, it is still a struggle for me. I would like to not struggle but giving up sugar and four seems so hard.
I think avoiding sugar and flour is an OA thing, yes? Also in Bright Line Eating. If it works for people, I'm happy for them.
As others have said, some people are abstainers, so this works better for them. I abstain from some things and moderate others. For example, I can moderate chocolate chips and squares of chocolate, but not chocolate BARS.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-happiness-project/201210/are-you-abstainer-or-moderator2 -
Walkywalkerson wrote: »I think people that are so narrow minded to assume food addiction doesn't exist because they don't have it are the ones that need the hug 🙄
@Walkywalkerson: if you hover over the Hug button it says "Awesome" - so people might have intended that instead of hugs
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MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
Are you someone who lives with chronic nausea?
I am.
And I said what I said.
I had chronic nausea temporarily (for around 6 months) from chemotherapy on a 3-week repeat. Lemon drop hard candy and saltine crackers were lifesavers, in nearly a literal sense. Toward the latter part of each cycle, I could eat more variously and nutritiously, but there's a certain set of extreme circumstances where nutrition gives way to what a person can keep down, in the definition of "healthy eating". The medical team's advice was indeed "eat what you can keep down, and plenty of it if possible". Raw unpeeled veggies were discouraged, strongly, although that advice differs between teams, I think. (It's about how high a load of bad microorganisms a healthy body can tolerate, vs. an immune-compromised one, basically.)
Exactly.
I don’t often eat cookies these days.
Honestly if I am feeling like absolute garbage my go-to is Kozy Shack tapioca. I can keep it down. And it has some nutritional value.
I did say in my earlier comment that vitamins are included and the calorie limit isn’t exceeded in the long term. Obviously entire sleeves of cookies aren’t daily fare. But sick people gotta eat too.
And ya. When my son was a desperately ill toddler, the advice was to feed him whatever he would eat. Which did cause some who thought they knew better to shame me for some of the choices. Including being berated by a stranger in the grocery store because I was letting my actually starving from not being able to tolerate many foods toddler happily chug the eggnog he had pointed at and asked for.
I was deliriously happy that he was willingly consuming calories. And that person just had to make it their business.
I stand by what I said. Illness and chronic nausea means sometimes a sleeve of cookies is exactly the right thing to eat.
My favorite cookies, for example, are homemade peanut butter cookies.
One egg. One cup of peanut butter (NOT the natural kind!). And one cup of sugar. 325 for about ten to twelve minutes. Be careful they burn easily.
Yes, I usually drop the sugar down to about 3/4 of a cup. Or even 2/3. But no one could argue that peanut butter and eggs are bad. And sometimes sick people need extra calories. 🤷🏼♀️
For what it’s worth, my now adult son has decent cholesterol levels. Which is the issue that stranger in the grocery store was yelling at me about. And his diet is OK. Not perfect. But not all-junk-all-the-time, either.
Oh. And the egg nog and cookies kept him alive. For which I am eternally grateful to the healthcare professional who encouraged me to allow him to eat whatever his emaciated little body could handle.
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?15 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
That would require her to give him personal information. Isn't that against terms of service? Or are you bullying?🤔2 -
psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
That would require her to give him personal information. Isn't that against terms of service? Or are you bullying?🤔
I'm pointing out that telling someone that they should be dealing with their difficult personal issues in some "better" way and implying that it would be easy to do so is unfair and unkind. That's a pretty weird definition of bullying that you have.16 -
Personally I don't believe there's food addiction. How can you be addicited to something you need TO LIVE? Unlike alcohol, gambling, drugs, etc., food is a necessity. I have yet to see someone sell their body, steal from loved ones, or blow their paycheck on sugar and flour. This is NOT to say there aren't eating disorders. But those differ from actual addiction where more than just therapy is needed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hmmm, but what does sneaking food or grabbing extra indulgences so you can eat them on the way home because you feel you "NEED" them, indicate? Food may not be addicting in itself(my own personal jury is still out on that thought) but that feeling of dopamine sure can be, of losing yourself even if for a few minutes with mindless bingeing, of the soothing feelings that come with eating(as in over or bingeing), albeit passes quickly into guilt.
It can be a fine line of addiction, I believe. Maybe a different level or description of addictive behavior.
Sure, there are many differences but oh so many similarities as well.
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kshama2001 wrote: »Speakeasy76 wrote: »
It's not an addiction. How do you get rid of alcohol, gambling and drugs out of addiction? By allowing it to be moderated? Of course not. You have to RID yourself of the habit completely to not fall to it again. So how does one rid themselves of food?Walkywalkerson wrote: »Food addiction / obsession is very real IMO
How do people get so out of control with their weight - weighing over 600lbs etc ..without it?
Medicating whatever emotional disorder they have with food until they're bedbound.
If that isn't addiction I don't know what is!
It's a DISORDER. Mostly a mental one. People who get morbidly obese aren't food addicted, it just happens to be easy for them instead of drugs. When people who get gastric bypass aren't treated with therapy, they can turn to alcohol, gambling or something else since they can't eat anymore without being sick. It's the mental behavioral disorder that causes it. Not a physical addiction to food.
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It seems like you are using the terms "addiction" and "addictive" interchangeably. I also think it's not a strong argument to say that you can't have an addiction to food just because one needs food to survive and therefore can't completely abstain from it to recover. Are certain foods inherently addictive to some who are gentically/environmentally predisposed to addiction? Meh, that could be argued, although it's been pretty well documented that certain foods are much easier to overeat than others and produce more of that dopamine than others...which is why almost no one would binge on carrots as opposed to cookies. Is it the food/food combinations itself or just the taste and people's memories surrounding it could be argued for sure. Can people have an addiction to food that is "mental?" Well yes, all types of addiction are considered a mental illness, and addiction to alcohol or drugs is a mixture of physical dependence and brain chemistry. This is why some people can drink in moderation and some can't. If it were just the alcohol itself, than anyone who ever drank it would become addicted. Same thing with painkillers....although there are some substances that are inherently more addictive than others. I think the current idea with addiction that it's the surge of dopamine that the user gets from using that they're looking to repeat (different than physical dependence), no matter the substance. It just so happens that some substances (e.g., illicit drugs) produce more powerful effects than other substances.
I used to self-medicate with alcohol, but now I can drink moderately, which for me is about a drink and a half once per quarter. I inherited several milk crates full of assorted booze from an ex-roommate that have mostly been just sitting in a cabinet for years. Debating whether to bother taking them with me when I move. I'll probably toss them.
It was actually a lot easier for me to stop abusing alcohol than it is to stop self-soothing with food. Because of course, we need the latter to live.
Same here. As soon as I discovered liquor at 18, I went whole-hog until I found out I was pregnant with our first child, 7 years later. I couldn't pass a liquor store or bar without that yearning longing feeling wrenching deep inside me. But I gave it up in a heartbeat, without ever looking back. I had 1 drink a few weeks ago when our kids were all here. And I couldn't even finish it. I'll have a drink maybe every couple years. It doesn't affect me anymore.
But food?? I crave it all the time, wake up thinking about it, go to bed thinking about it, and every hour in between. My brain is lacking any self control right now and to me, that is a big definition of an addictive behavior.9 -
psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
That would require her to give him personal information. Isn't that against terms of service? Or are you bullying?🤔
I don't butthurt easily 1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »psychod787 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
That would require her to give him personal information. Isn't that against terms of service? Or are you bullying?🤔
I'm pointing out that telling someone that they should be dealing with their difficult personal issues in some "better" way and implying that it would be easy to do so is unfair and unkind. That's a pretty weird definition of bullying that you have.
The person in the post I was replying to said she had issues with chronic nausea (which I'm sorry she has to deal with that).
I suggested there are better foods to cope with a disability than eating a box of cookies in one sitting, which I still maintain.
Heck I'm fortunate enough to be healthy and eating a box of cookies at a sitting would give me nausea.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
Many lists of foods that help nausea, here are a few:
https://www.everydayhealth.com/digestive-health/diet/foods-that-help-relieve-nausea/#:~:text=Crackers&text=Foods high in starch — such,," says Palinski-Wade.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods-to-eat-when-nauseous
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326683
Spoiler don't see any that list cookies. Hopefully the poster can get to the store on her own or has a delivery service available.1 -
I'm tempted to keep discussing the "foods for nausea" issue, but it seems seriously off topic to OP's post. If it gets split off to Debate, that would seem legit, but I'm haven't flagged it to request that.2
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Theoldguy1 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
Many lists of foods that help nausea, here are a few:
https://www.everydayhealth.com/digestive-health/diet/foods-that-help-relieve-nausea/#:~:text=Crackers&text=Foods high in starch — such,," says Palinski-Wade.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods-to-eat-when-nauseous
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326683
Spoiler don't see any that list cookies. Hopefully the poster can get to the store on her own or has a delivery service available.
And of course these lists invalidate someone's personal experience. There are things that nauseate me just to smell, much less eat, that are recommended (even prescribed) for dealing with nausea. Nobody needs your judgment about what works for them just to get some calories in so they have energy to deal with whatever difficult circumstances they're facing.
ETA: If all you had done was offer the lists, I would say you were being helpful. It's the repeated judgment of someone's solution for dealing with their life that I find objectionable.12 -
I'm tempted to keep discussing the "foods for nausea" issue, but it seems seriously off topic to OP's post. If it gets split off to Debate, that would seem legit, but I'm haven't flagged it to request that.
I am happy to start the discussion over in https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/141248-disability-fitness-and-weight-management-we-are-here-we-can-do-this where it will always be on topic.3 -
Theoldguy1 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »MargaretYakoda wrote: »Theoldguy1 wrote: »jennypapage wrote: »There's no such thing as food addiction as far as i am concerned. I don't know anyone who can't stop eating broccoli or beans or any vegetable. We just like sweet things. Our ancestors liked sweet things. Sugar gives us and our brains energy. So we have evolved to eat sugary things .It used to be fruits, now it's cookies and pastries. That being said, i don't have a problem moderating myself. I may eat a whole pack of cookies, or i may eat just 1 cookie. Every day is different. It depends on how i've slept, what else i've eaten, where i am in my monthly cycle hormonally,etc.
I would not enjoy life if i had to completely cut off an entire group of products out of my life.
Eating a whole pack of cookies and that is moderating yourself?
Carry on.
Sometimes disability means nausea. Chronic, or occasional related to medication.
And gosh darn it, cookies have calories. And usually flour, nut butters, oats, milk, and other nutritious ingredients.
So yes. If I choose to eat an entire box of cookies? As long as I take my vitamins, and it’s within my calorie budget over a week’s time? Yes. Not only no worries, but it’s actually doctor recommended under some circumstances. Yes. Straight up heard that advice when my son was young and very ill for a year. Specifically cookies, although chocolate pudding or tapioca has a spot in my current diet also.
There are no bad foods. Period. As long as someone is getting the nutrients they need, and not going over their calorie budget over the long term? No judgment needed. Thanks.
I am pretty sure one can find several foods to help one cope with a disability or illness much better than a box of cookies.
That's nice. Why don't you go buy those foods and take them to her and prepare them for her and see which ones she can tolerate without throwing up?
Many lists of foods that help nausea, here are a few:
https://www.everydayhealth.com/digestive-health/diet/foods-that-help-relieve-nausea/#:~:text=Crackers&text=Foods high in starch — such,," says Palinski-Wade.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/foods-to-eat-when-nauseous
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/326683
Spoiler don't see any that list cookies. Hopefully the poster can get to the store on her own or has a delivery service available.
OK. I have read the articles.
I will go into depth on the suggestions in the discussion posted in the group I linked to earlier. For now I will just say the foods suggested are good for mild, occasional nausea.
And believe me, I have tried them all.
But anyone who has ever been prescribed Ondanestron knows those are rookie level.
Oh. Also crackers and protein are on the lists you shared. Peanut butter has protein. Some cookies would count as a “dry” food. Just something to consider.7 -
On 1.1.14, I started my final diet. I knew I needed to do something different and I made the personal decision to abstain from what I believed were my trigger foods. For me that was chocolate, sweets, biscuits, cakes and ice cream. On that day, I never, ever thought I’d keep it up for ever but as of today, I have continued to abstain. I am over 6 stones lighter, and have successfully maintained this lower weight for over 6 years.
Congrats on finding a successful lifestyle that works for you -- that's wonderful.
I've read people fall into two general groups, abstainers and moderators. I also do much better if I abstain from sugary and fatty trigger foods. If I don't eat them, I don't think about them and don't miss them. Once I try to moderate those foods, they creep back and before I know it, I'm eating a pint of ice cream a day.
8 -
On 1.1.14, I started my final diet. I knew I needed to do something different and I made the personal decision to abstain from what I believed were my trigger foods. For me that was chocolate, sweets, biscuits, cakes and ice cream. On that day, I never, ever thought I’d keep it up for ever but as of today, I have continued to abstain. I am over 6 stones lighter, and have successfully maintained this lower weight for over 6 years.
Congrats on finding a successful lifestyle that works for you -- that's wonderful.
I've read people fall into two general groups, abstainers and moderators. I also do much better if I abstain from sugary and fatty trigger foods. If I don't eat them, I don't think about them and don't miss them. Once I try to moderate those foods, they creep back and before I know it, I'm eating a pint of ice cream a day.
me too, I do better not to have sugary and fatty trigger foods. Once I moderate I am off and running with the sugar foods. They are sneaky, creep back in and I want them every day. I have to really really want something sweet and rarely have it. Thanks so much for these replies.1 -
Feeling a NEED for food isn't the same as drug addiction, alcohol addiction etc. I'll state it again. If you have an addiction to just about any of those, you STOP the addiction by STOPPING it completely. You CAN'T go back to doing it because addiction will happen again. So how do you stop eating food? You CAN'T. It's an essential in life. Overeating/under eating is a DISORDER.Personally I don't believe there's food addiction. How can you be addicited to something you need TO LIVE? Unlike alcohol, gambling, drugs, etc., food is a necessity. I have yet to see someone sell their body, steal from loved ones, or blow their paycheck on sugar and flour. This is NOT to say there aren't eating disorders. But those differ from actual addiction where more than just therapy is needed.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hmmm, but what does sneaking food or grabbing extra indulgences so you can eat them on the way home because you feel you "NEED" them, indicate? Food may not be addicting in itself(my own personal jury is still out on that thought) but that feeling of dopamine sure can be, of losing yourself even if for a few minutes with mindless bingeing, of the soothing feelings that come with eating(as in over or bingeing), albeit passes quickly into guilt.
It can be a fine line of addiction, I believe. Maybe a different level or description of addictive behavior.
Sure, there are many differences but oh so many similarities as well.
People that use dopamine as the reasoning could say the same thing about rollercoasters, petting puppies, pinching babies cheeks, etc. Can those be deemed as addictions?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
8
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