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no sugar or flour, food addiction?
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I'm not convinced that sugar/flour are addictions.
At one time I thought they might be ... in relationship to how I personally react to them; sugar much more so than flour. I would crave more soon after consuming some. And I would have a very hard time not giving in to that craving, even when I was over-full to the point of discomfort or groggy/drowsy from too much of it. ...About then I started reading thoughts about it on these discussion boards and started to do some research online. That was about a dozen years ago.
Now I recognize that there are some studies (that I cannot name off the top of my head, but did read summaries or hear discussions about) that sugar stimulates brain satisfaction hormones, others that it has a similar effect to the effects of marijuana on the brain. And of course, I also had the experience of receiving information to contradict those findings/views.
So, I have determined that 'no one really knows'
And I observed how I and other people I knew personally have reacted to modifications in their diet to try and control over-consumption of food items in the hopes of losing excess weight more easily, with less cravings and hunger discomfort. ... And this is what I have determined from all this. ...
1. I have less cravings and can stay more comfortably within my calorie deficit to lose weight when I don't eat stuff full of sugar and flour. That I can eat a slice of bread, or have a couple of sugary fruits a day, but not more than that or I get hard-to-deal-with-cravings-for-more-more-more!
2. That some of my personal buddies/family have lost significant excess weight be limiting or abstaining from all consumption of sugar/flour, and others can also have some, on a limited basis without difficulty.
3. That I simply cannot eat candy or baked goods that are high in sugar without going into a tailspin of over-indulgence and those darned cravings and obsessive thoughts of that kind of food. .. So I accept that if I buy it and bring it home, it will be All-Gone within 12 hours, and that I will have to suffer through cravings for the next several days before those thoughts and cravings cease.
So ... in the end, some people would consider these reactions as being addicted, others would call it lack of will-power, and still others would critique that it's lifestyle choices. ... I don't much care what others call it. I call it "Out of sight, out of mind". and "Stay away from it".7 -
surfing links, stumbled across a study (the kind that make my eyeballs spin!) which seems to be a study of studies and done to consider how 'GLP-1' type drugs work (with respect to diabetes &/or weight loss.)
Further, the part that caught my attention was the first sentence in the "Conclusion: Current preclinical studies support the view that GLP-1 can be a target for reward system related disorders. More translational research is needed to evaluate its efficacy on human reward system related disorders." (bold is mine; i had not heard the term "reward system related disorders before; makes sense to me.)
https://frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnbeh.2020.614884/full#B15
within the article "reward system related disorders" are discussed at some length, and the 'discussion' paragraph identifies them better than i can, so including a snippet/quote of it (bold is mine):
"Discussion
To our knowledge, this study is the most up to date and comprehensive translational review of the effect of GLP-1 on reward. Our current review demonstrates that GLP-1 not only decreases palatable food intake, but it can also decrease cocaine, amphetamine, alcohol, and nicotine use in animal models (Supplementary Tables 1, 2). A limited number of human studies also support the central regulatory role of GLP-1 on reward pathway functional connectivity (Supplementary Table 3).
/end article snippets
as a lay person, I would say the 'palatable food intake' description used in the article is about the 'hyper-palatable foods' we talk about in terms of food addiction. And, from personal experience, food response for me is exceptionally similar to nicotine with respect to physical responses, increased tolerance develops, withdrawal symptoms include physical agitation and these physical response (driven in the reward pathways of the brain?) are part of the 'use disorder' which also goes hand in hand with the behavioral part/things such as beliefs, attitudes, habits, mal-adaptive eating patterns, skills for weight management and 'addiction like' recovery/treatments.
on a different thought - if the GLP-1 type drugs chemically alter/reduce the use of these substances - what happens when the GLP-1 drug is no longer used. Do the physical drives, cravings, strong urges return? Meaning, if a person is addicted to alcohol, are they forever addicted? Does the physical addiction return if they stop the drug or resume drinking, using drugs or using nicotine?
In my personal experience, if I start Excess/Over-eating hyper-palatable foods, it does not take very long for the physical voracious, insatiable appetite and cravings to return - and for the physical agitation and withdrawals occurs all over again when I try to stop.
The argument for defining the problem (for some people, the ones who suffer from it) as a real, medical food addiction - it will be easier for people to have a common understanding for definition, treatments and further research.... as is being done for the other things.2 -
My younger brother passed away March 12 (this year) from overdose after years of abusing meth and alcohol. As much as we tried to encourage him to get help and go to rehab, it just wasn't enough. His reasoning was always depression and his issue was that his kids told him that unless he stops, they won't have a relationship with him. So what he abused is what caused him to lose his kids and he kept abusing to help alleviate his pain. He ended up at 116lbs, liver and kidney issues and ultimately having cardiac arrest. His celebration and funeral will be the 27th.
And many know I don't really buy into the food addiction because had that been my brother's issue, I'm sure it would be much more attainable and less complicated having to control eating habits versus drug and alcohol dependency.
Again, I'm not discounting that people deal with eating disorders and that they aren't real, I just don't caterogize it in the same column as drug addiction or alcoholism.
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My younger brother passed away March 12 (this year) from overdose after years of abusing meth and alcohol. As much as we tried to encourage him to get help and go to rehab, it just wasn't enough. His reasoning was always depression and his issue was that his kids told him that unless he stops, they won't have a relationship with him. So what he abused is what caused him to lose his kids and he kept abusing to help alleviate his pain. He ended up at 116lbs, liver and kidney issues and ultimately having cardiac arrest. His celebration and funeral will be the 27th.
And many know I don't really buy into the food addiction because had that been my brother's issue, I'm sure it would be much more attainable and less complicated having to control eating habits versus drug and alcohol dependency.
Again, I'm not discounting that people deal with eating disorders and that they aren't real, I just don't caterogize it in the same column as drug addiction or alcoholism.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Sorry for your loss, Niner.3 -
My younger brother passed away March 12 (this year) from overdose after years of abusing meth and alcohol. As much as we tried to encourage him to get help and go to rehab, it just wasn't enough. His reasoning was always depression and his issue was that his kids told him that unless he stops, they won't have a relationship with him. So what he abused is what caused him to lose his kids and he kept abusing to help alleviate his pain. He ended up at 116lbs, liver and kidney issues and ultimately having cardiac arrest. His celebration and funeral will be the 27th.
And many know I don't really buy into the food addiction because had that been my brother's issue, I'm sure it would be much more attainable and less complicated having to control eating habits versus drug and alcohol dependency.
Again, I'm not discounting that people deal with eating disorders and that they aren't real, I just don't caterogize it in the same column as drug addiction or alcoholism.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My thoughts and prayers go out to you niner. I lost my younger brother in January this year from a life of drug and alcohol addiction.6 -
My condolences to you as well.neanderthin wrote: »My younger brother passed away March 12 (this year) from overdose after years of abusing meth and alcohol. As much as we tried to encourage him to get help and go to rehab, it just wasn't enough. His reasoning was always depression and his issue was that his kids told him that unless he stops, they won't have a relationship with him. So what he abused is what caused him to lose his kids and he kept abusing to help alleviate his pain. He ended up at 116lbs, liver and kidney issues and ultimately having cardiac arrest. His celebration and funeral will be the 27th.
And many know I don't really buy into the food addiction because had that been my brother's issue, I'm sure it would be much more attainable and less complicated having to control eating habits versus drug and alcohol dependency.
Again, I'm not discounting that people deal with eating disorders and that they aren't real, I just don't caterogize it in the same column as drug addiction or alcoholism.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
My thoughts and prayers go out to you niner. I lost my younger brother in January this year from a life of drug and alcohol addiction.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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@ninerbuff ~ so very sorry for your loss ~ we also have had family and friends lose their lives directly resulting from their complications with addictions; drugs and alcohol... it can be so physically gruesome... and emotionally tortuous.
addictions and depths of addictions are not equivalent on all levels or in progression - the absence/strength of particulars does not negate the existence of other addictions or progressions into addiction - and to dismiss the existence of other addictions is to dismiss the real pain and suffering of those experiencing whatever form of hellacious addiction they suffer.
i *think* in the past ~ the fall-out of *food addiction* has not been recognized as a real addiction - as far as I know - there is not yet a 'medical diagnosis' for food addiction as a medical condition - like CKD (chronic kidney disease.... which leads to kidney failure/dialysis in many cases).
-- The expression/results of excess eating/food addiction can lead to physical symptoms of obesity which does have a medical diagnosis which opens particular treatment paths such as weight loss surgery or medication - but often the diagnosis is used to exclude other treatments (like dietary support or psychotherapy.)
-- i would suggest that a 'medical diagnosis for food addiction' would open up appropriate treatment paths to address it as an illness - the same as alcohol or drug addiction.
further 'food addiction' is not yet classified as a 'psychological disorder' but the expression of eating patterns such as binge eating can lead to diagnosis such as binge eating disorder - which tends to focus on the 'emotional/disordered/distorted thinking'
like other substance abuse disorders - the answer is likely a complex combination - unique in some ways to each individual person - but common fall out.
-- in our family - alcoholism led to liver failure, drug use to suicide in addition to body wasting, smoking to emphysema cancer and copd, food addiction/compulsive eating inability to step away from execss food to other very widespread greusome physical health complications... the end of any of these expressed addictions is beyond sad ---- the person who suffers does not deserve disdain or shaming or judgement - they need empathy, compassion and help.
sadly for all addictions - overcoming and reaching sobriety is difficult - not impossible, consequences dire and often irreversible with chronic and progressive medical disease complications - recognizing the 'medical and/or psychological underlying factors' can point to treatment and recovery - if/when the user/abuser will choose that. Can't make anyone put down drugs, alcohol, cigarettes/vaping nor Excess food... There is a personal responsibility to change - and when the person doesn't, it is devastating to see the fallout.... for Excess food - severe obesity and related medical complications/difficult thinking is as devastating and no less gruesome.2 -
Sorry for your losses, @ninerbuff, @neanderthin and @LifeChangz
My ex's brother died from alcohol related causes. He fell and hit his head and was in a coma and then in the hospital for a number of weeks, so was completely physically detoxed. Yet, when he got out and was in the supermarket with my ex, went to the beer section and started drinking out of the cooler (with no wallet or intention to pay).
I've probably been to hundreds of AA & NA meetings over the years, mostly with friends/family. Here's something I posted earlier today on another thread:kshama2001 wrote: »[snip]
Back in the 90's, I stopped self-medicating with alcohol after just one meeting each of Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery, which are essentially CBT-based. Unfortunately, RR is now defunct. I really liked its Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. While AVRT is similar to CBT's "Catch it, Check it, Change it," I found AVRT more powerful.
A free offshoot of RR, SR has online meetings, looks like every day https://meetings.smartrecovery.org/meetings/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMART_Recovery
SMART Recovery is an international non-profit organization that provides assistance to individuals seeking abstinence from addiction. SMART stands for Self-Management and Recovery Training. The SMART approach is secular and research-based, using cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and non-confrontational motivational methods.[1]
SMART Recovery is an alternative to Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) and other twelve-step programs. SMART differs from AA in that addiction is viewed by the organization as a dysfunctional habit, rather than a disease as it is framed in AA, while allowing that it is possible that certain people have a predisposition toward addictive behavior.[2] SMART Recovery does not focus on spiritual growth as a key component of behavior modification and thus does not encourage individuals to admit powerlessness over addictions, nor use the concept of a "Higher Power".
For me, ceasing to self-medicate with alcohol was MUCH easier than with food, precisely because we need food to live. I'm in a toxic family situation, am under a tremendous amount of stress, and have been struggling with food. I'm more than half way through a 10 week CBT skills group right now and am not finding it particularly helpful, perhaps because it is not specifically focused on food.
To be continued in my next post so I don't mess up the quotes.2 -
[snipped the quote from the study]
While there is some evidence to show it "may" be an addiction, I'm still not fully convinced it is. I'm NOT dismissive that people don't struggle with food, carbs, sweets, etc., but I do believe that mixed information can lead them to believe they may be hopeless so why even bother? Trust that I've dealt with many a client with that attitude when they first hit their first stall. When I get them to believe it's not an actual "addiction", they seem to not struggle as much and their discipline gets better. Anyway, there is no set concensus by science, so I'll still stick to it not being an addiction till science actually identifies it as such.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutritionIn this particular context, a lot hinges on whether the particular individual we're trying to help thinks "addiction = I'm powerless to change" vs. "addiction = treatable condition that can be changed with the right interventions". From reading this thread, it seems like people here have had varying reactions to the term, loosely on that kind of interpretive scale.
(That's leaving out the people who truly do use the word casually, which is certainly a thing that happens.)
This is a good point. I'm firmly in the "addiction = treatable condition that can be changed with the right interventions" camp. However, I can see how some would think "addiction = I'm powerless to change," especially given AA's focus on powerlessness, which I think does those seeking recovery a disservice. I find hammering on people that they are powerless to be...disempowering.
While I disagree with the first part of Step 1, and never got anywhere with AA personally, I am glad it is there for those it does help.
I'm so glad I found the Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery (which is now defunct) groups that I mentioned in my previous post.
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@kshama2001 ~ thank you for mentioning the Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery (now defunct) groups. a book I read, think it was 'food junkies' by Tarman had maybe 1 paragraph on the idea of rational recovery - and my thought was - tuck this away, might be something helpful to explore and of interest for me. I have found CBT helpful that I stumbled across in various resources.... it is action, pro-active forward looking....
12 step programs also do not generally ring my bell either, i think essentially, because i do not consider these things to be moral failures but rather complex struggles (physical and/or behavioral) that are possible to improve, often with intervention as well.
I can see however the usefulness of peer support and forum to talk about related issues with 12-step groups.... and, there is a kernel of truth in the admission of 'feeling powerless' with the problem. for me, it does not mean recovery is impossible - the admission is more a recognition that a real problem exists and provides a fresh starting point (again) - as it can take many efforts to get the use stopped and recovery to take hold (crash, burn, get up, dust off, assess, make a game plan and go more; repeat ad nauseum as long as it takes.)
Along those lines I find the Prochaska change model helpful - with the more recent additions of stage 7 transcendance and a descriptive inclusion in the center of the improvement spiral effect reflecting that people can move forwards/backwards, up/down during the process of change/recovery but that is part of the learning process and improvement. I noticed the spiral of improvement when I was quitting sickerettes, and reached transcendance about year 5. still working on the food thing....
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LifeChangz wrote: »on a different thought - if the GLP-1 type drugs chemically alter/reduce the use of these substances - what happens when the GLP-1 drug is no longer used. Do the physical drives, cravings, strong urges return?
Judging from myself, if/when you stop the drug, the hunger comes back, with a vengeance. Well, at least for me it did. When starting out my doctor prescribed a similar drug for a six month period in 2021 (liraglutide - VICTOZA, daily injections) and while there were no side effects when taking it, the following three months after quitting (I didn't want to become addicted to it, and the monetary cost was severe too) were hell on earth. I managed to power through and keep on losing 130lb more afterwards, but if I knew the effects those peptide receptor agonists have on you if/when you stop them I would have never, ever, even considered taking them.
If you have a lot to lose, or/and have blood sugar problems, these new drugs can really be lifesaving. But they are (potentially) for life.
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thank you @Dante_80 ~ i wondered about that. In the 90's the doctors prescribed combinations of phenphen and part of it was pulled off the market - pretty much everyone stopped. The person I knew said their appetite roared back, they regained the weight somewhat rapidly. Same with the medically supervised high protein semi-fast plans... appetite was suppressed during the semi-fast and they experienced rapid regain after the program ended (several times).
the only thing I personally have found that breaks the voracious appetite is a sustained keto or low carb eating approach - it seems to address an underlying chemical appetite trigger in my body but embracing that change in eating also means releasing the excess carb eating which is where the emotional struggle lies - especially with social and holiday feasting abundant culturally.3 -
I understand. Each person is certainly different, it would be extremely difficult for me to curb my carb consumption (I have lost my excess weight following a 55%+ carb Mediterranean diet, essentially eating what I grew up with here in Greece). I tried keto in the past and found it completely disagreeable as well as non sustainable for me.
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Doctor: The MRI shows your brain has been hijacked by dopamine pirates.
Patient: Are you writing me a prescription Doc?
Doctor: No, I'm investing and buying stock in those companies. Drum roll, symbol. 2 -
So much of Western medicine is so focused on prescriptions to alleviate patients problems and symptoms while not truly addressing the root cause. Which of course opened the door wide open for big pharma and the billions they make a year in medicines.neanderthin wrote: »Doctor: The MRI shows your brain has been hijacked by dopamine pirates.
Patient: Are you writing me a prescription Doc?
Doctor: No, I'm investing and buying stock in those companies. Drum roll, symbol.
I sometimes believe that people in the US really don't worry about health issues because in the back of their mind, they believe that there's a medicine or medical procedure that will take care of whatever health issue they run into down the line.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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So much of Western medicine is so focused on prescriptions to alleviate patients problems and symptoms while not truly addressing the root cause. Which of course opened the door wide open for big pharma and the billions they make a year in medicines.neanderthin wrote: »Doctor: The MRI shows your brain has been hijacked by dopamine pirates.
Patient: Are you writing me a prescription Doc?
Doctor: No, I'm investing and buying stock in those companies. Drum roll, symbol.
I sometimes believe that people in the US really don't worry about health issues because in the back of their mind, they believe that there's a medicine or medical procedure that will take care of whatever health issue they run into down the line.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A few years ago, 2018 I believe the food industry grossed about 1.4 trillion with a profit of around 650 billion. Pharma made 254 billion on 1.8 trillion. Health care is about 3.2 trillion a year. Crazy numbers. Not sustainable and with diabetes being around 350 billion dollar burden alone, forget about the other metabolic diseases someone better figure out what's going on in the food supply because the Gov't has had 50 years to figure it out and they've come up with zilch.0 -
I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.5
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neanderthin wrote: »
So much of Western medicine is so focused on prescriptions to alleviate patients problems and symptoms while not truly addressing the root cause. Which of course opened the door wide open for big pharma and the billions they make a year in medicines.neanderthin wrote: »Doctor: The MRI shows your brain has been hijacked by dopamine pirates.
Patient: Are you writing me a prescription Doc?
Doctor: No, I'm investing and buying stock in those companies. Drum roll, symbol.
I sometimes believe that people in the US really don't worry about health issues because in the back of their mind, they believe that there's a medicine or medical procedure that will take care of whatever health issue they run into down the line.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A few years ago, 2018 I believe the food industry grossed about 1.4 trillion with a profit of around 650 billion. Pharma made 254 billion on 1.8 trillion. Health care is about 3.2 trillion a year. Crazy numbers. Not sustainable and with diabetes being around 350 billion dollar burden alone, forget about the other metabolic diseases someone better figure out what's going on in the food supply because the Gov't has had 50 years to figure it out and they've come up with zilch.
Definitely agree. It's insanity. And the answer is in the food. And unfortunately big agra isn't going to give us the answer (too much money in the game) so unfortunately it's up to people to do as best they can.1 -
Oh it's NOT going to change at all if companies are making billions. They don't care about human health (with the exception of something flat out killing someone after ingestion). What matters is PROFIT. Capitalism rules in the USA regardless if big companies exploit Americans. As long as they can do it LEGALLY, they will.neanderthin wrote: »
So much of Western medicine is so focused on prescriptions to alleviate patients problems and symptoms while not truly addressing the root cause. Which of course opened the door wide open for big pharma and the billions they make a year in medicines.neanderthin wrote: »Doctor: The MRI shows your brain has been hijacked by dopamine pirates.
Patient: Are you writing me a prescription Doc?
Doctor: No, I'm investing and buying stock in those companies. Drum roll, symbol.
I sometimes believe that people in the US really don't worry about health issues because in the back of their mind, they believe that there's a medicine or medical procedure that will take care of whatever health issue they run into down the line.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
A few years ago, 2018 I believe the food industry grossed about 1.4 trillion with a profit of around 650 billion. Pharma made 254 billion on 1.8 trillion. Health care is about 3.2 trillion a year. Crazy numbers. Not sustainable and with diabetes being around 350 billion dollar burden alone, forget about the other metabolic diseases someone better figure out what's going on in the food supply because the Gov't has had 50 years to figure it out and they've come up with zilch.
So if you talk to people that are lean.............they don't blame the companies. They take it upon themselves to make the right choices for better health and nutrition.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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The food industry understands the science behind what drives behavior and they've been researching this for decades and I believe it's in their understanding of the two major reward centers in the brain, one being dopamine and the other serotonin. Which does differentiate between pleasure and happiness which are usually conflated by most people.
Pleasure is that dopamine hit and generally experienced alone and it's visceral, short lived and when it's achieved in excess it drives depression, suicide with an end game for addiction. Examples like drugs, shopping, gambling, drinking and sex and yes, eating.
Happiness on the other hand effects serotonin which is generally experienced with others like family and friends, it's ethereal and it's long lived and can't be achieved with substances and happiness is not addictive.
The food industry is well aware of these differences and the food industry commonly deflects overeating with lack of exercise with companies expressing core values virtue signaling health and wellbeing in their marketing and advertising, basically saying, hey, if your fat and obese you have to take it upon yourself and eat less and move more, and they get a pass because that opinion is a popular one and they know that.
The food industry right now are salivating at the thought that the message that animal products for example have been demonized and thought to be scourge of the planet because, well, since the 60's meat will kill us (yes sarcasm) and what are going to replace those calories, fruit and veg, nope, maybe a little, it will be a lot more powders with additives and formed into all sorts of new shapes with those tastes we've all learned to love with ringing health endorsements, right on those bright and beautifully packaged goodness sending the right message, well, at least the one people have fallen for over and over again, dopamine anyone. This is just my opinion and not a popular one because, it's all about calories. cheers
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Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.1 -
Hmmm good question. But according to this, the top 10 states aren't the most obese out of all the US.lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
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Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2021/04/30/this-state-smokes-the-most-pot-ranking-use-by-state/10/
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition 3 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.
Are lots of people using marijuana who didn't use it when it was illegal? I'm not sure. I don't know very many, but that's for sure a biased sample. Just from casual reading, looks like there's some research, but I think it's mostly survey research, so also potentially iffy; but seems to show only modest increases (in absolute terms, not "percentage increase") in some (not all) demographics. To the extent use has been correlated with BMI in such research, it isn't obvious that users are universally fatter (maybe even the reverse).0 -
Funny but almost all people I personally know that smoke are skinny or normal body weight.lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.
Are lots of people using marijuana who didn't use it when it was illegal? I'm not sure. I don't know very many, but that's for sure a biased sample. Just from casual reading, looks like there's some research, but I think it's mostly survey research, so also potentially iffy; but seems to show only modest increases (in absolute terms, not "percentage increase") in some (not all) demographics. To the extent use has been correlated with BMI in such research, it isn't obvious that users are universally fatter (maybe even the reverse).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Funny but almost all people I personally know that smoke are skinny or normal body weight.lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.
Are lots of people using marijuana who didn't use it when it was illegal? I'm not sure. I don't know very many, but that's for sure a biased sample. Just from casual reading, looks like there's some research, but I think it's mostly survey research, so also potentially iffy; but seems to show only modest increases (in absolute terms, not "percentage increase") in some (not all) demographics. To the extent use has been correlated with BMI in such research, it isn't obvious that users are universally fatter (maybe even the reverse).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Omg you’re right.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »
Chemical reaction is what drives the body. From hormones you generate normally, to chemicals taken. Lol, I had a client who kept telling me he just didn't feel hungry and why he's probably not gaining weight or muscle even though the workout program we were doing was set for that. So I told him to smoke weed. He was shocked. But he did try it and voila! Not only did he sleep better, but he was able to gain 30lbs easily cause marijuana made him hungry.I do believe it has to be related to the chemicals in the brain somehow. I’ve always been underweight and never craved food. Then when I had problems with my hormones I got cravings. The Dr put me on the birth control pill consecutively so I never get my period-don’t have cravings any more. Then about 5 years ago, I had a nerve injury in my knee and they gave me nerve medication-it caused me to crave sweets and foods I never I eat-I gained 20lbs in 2 months. So I went off of it-cravings went away and I instantly lost the weight and went back to normal. I think that’s why all these drugs like Ozempic work-it changes the foods you crave and your amount of hunger. So for the average person - the level of the hormones you have regulating your hunger such as leptin, etc can affect your weight. Drugs and hormones can affect this. People who psychologically eat -I am not sure what gets triggered there. That is a little more in depth.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Hadn't thought about this before, but I wonder if the legalization of marijuana in so many states will exacerbate the obesity problem in the U.S.
Are lots of people using marijuana who didn't use it when it was illegal? I'm not sure. I don't know very many, but that's for sure a biased sample. Just from casual reading, looks like there's some research, but I think it's mostly survey research, so also potentially iffy; but seems to show only modest increases (in absolute terms, not "percentage increase") in some (not all) demographics. To the extent use has been correlated with BMI in such research, it isn't obvious that users are universally fatter (maybe even the reverse).
I think it would also matter, for the question of affecting obesity, whether people who used it when it was illegal are using it more now that it's legal -- assuming that more use means more munchies? Another possibility -- has legalization affected how much marijuana is used in the form of edibles (I don't know much about this, but it sounds like edibles are generally sugary treats, like baked goods -- no pun intended -- or gummies?).
Early days yet to know about the effect of legalization on rates of use, much less the secondary effect on obesity. Just something that occurred to me in reading the thread.
Also think maybe the pertinent comparison should not be between the BMI of users and the BMI of non-users, but rather between the % change in BMI over several years for users and nonusers.0 -
Good discussion. Helpful for me to think about this. I don't know if it is "addiction" (not sure how to define it). In 2019 I managed to stop eating sugar and flour for almost a year, and lost 30 lbs. It's easier and more successful in weight loss for me to completely abstain. I gained the weight back when I stopped abstaining. Now I'm down 16 lbs but on a plateau for months. I have been eating both sugar and flour in what seems extreme moderation but I wonder if my body just doesn't handle them well. I can try letting go of them again. I am wary of making a lifelong commitment to such a restricted diet, but it felt good to be honest, and it was pretty easy to accomplish -- but only as long as I just completely stopped.(I can make buckeyes, keto muffins, and ground sunflower seed crackers for treats.)1
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I can’t blame any of my weight gains on flour, sugar, the food industry, or anyone other than myself.
I was a child in the 70’s. My parents were young and money was tight. Restaurant meals, fast food, and “junk foods” like chips were rare. Both parents ran. My father was a long-distance runner who was, and still is, very particular about what he eats. We had healthy meals and plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables. We did a lot of walking, biking, and swimming. But I still gained weight because I love food and I love to eat.
I never ate to block out pain or trauma. If I’m upset or stressed, I don’t want to eat. It’s a happy thing. I like the taste of food and the act of eating. I never eat fast. I like to savor it. It’s not an addiction for me, as I can control myself. But there were, and are, times when I didn’t want to or didn’t care.
From pictures, I can see I was a normal weight until about 5 or 6. You don’t become obese overnight. It’s mathematics. Extra snacks plus extra portions equal excess calories. Excess calories add up to excess pounds. Excess pounds add up year after year.
I weighed 145 pounds when I was 13. I remember as that’s when I weighed more than either of my parents. They weren’t happy about my weight but it’s not hard to sneak food. And if you love all food, then anything is eligible to be a snack. We would buy glorious cheeses from the farmer’s market. I once ate 9 clementines in a row. Peanut butter is so easy to eat right out of the jar. My grandfather always had a ham cooked and sliced and no one would notice if you took just one more slice. Slice after slice. Pound after pound. Year after year.
I gained major weight in college. The dining halls were all you could eat and I could eat a lot. I was in the 260’s when I was 24 and decided to get serious about losing weight. Unsurprisingly, when I ate the proper portions, I lost weight.
You see, I used to blame being short or having a “slow metabolism” for being overweight. When I was a kid, I thought it wasn’t fair that my best friend ate French fries and was skinny when I didn’t eat fried foods yet I was the one who was fat. But when I finally took an honest look at what I ate on a daily basis, I knew that was the end of my denial. And it really was denial, as deep down I always knew I ate enough for several people.
You would think I now have a good understanding how overeating leads to weight gain and you’d be correct. I still gained 40 pounds during the pandemic. Being self-aware doesn’t mean that you no longer indulge in self-destructive behavior. Plus, I’m an excellent cook. And the farmer’s market still sells glorious cheeses.
9 -
When you're honest with yourself, it's much easier to see the big picture and actually find the path to what makes it doable to control your weight.PeachHibiscus wrote: »I can’t blame any of my weight gains on flour, sugar, the food industry, or anyone other than myself.
I was a child in the 70’s. My parents were young and money was tight. Restaurant meals, fast food, and “junk foods” like chips were rare. Both parents ran. My father was a long-distance runner who was, and still is, very particular about what he eats. We had healthy meals and plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables. We did a lot of walking, biking, and swimming. But I still gained weight because I love food and I love to eat.
I never ate to block out pain or trauma. If I’m upset or stressed, I don’t want to eat. It’s a happy thing. I like the taste of food and the act of eating. I never eat fast. I like to savor it. It’s not an addiction for me, as I can control myself. But there were, and are, times when I didn’t want to or didn’t care.
From pictures, I can see I was a normal weight until about 5 or 6. You don’t become obese overnight. It’s mathematics. Extra snacks plus extra portions equal excess calories. Excess calories add up to excess pounds. Excess pounds add up year after year.
I weighed 145 pounds when I was 13. I remember as that’s when I weighed more than either of my parents. They weren’t happy about my weight but it’s not hard to sneak food. And if you love all food, then anything is eligible to be a snack. We would buy glorious cheeses from the farmer’s market. I once ate 9 clementines in a row. Peanut butter is so easy to eat right out of the jar. My grandfather always had a ham cooked and sliced and no one would notice if you took just one more slice. Slice after slice. Pound after pound. Year after year.
I gained major weight in college. The dining halls were all you could eat and I could eat a lot. I was in the 260’s when I was 24 and decided to get serious about losing weight. Unsurprisingly, when I ate the proper portions, I lost weight.
You see, I used to blame being short or having a “slow metabolism” for being overweight. When I was a kid, I thought it wasn’t fair that my best friend ate French fries and was skinny when I didn’t eat fried foods yet I was the one who was fat. But when I finally took an honest look at what I ate on a daily basis, I knew that was the end of my denial. And it really was denial, as deep down I always knew I ate enough for several people.
You would think I now have a good understanding how overeating leads to weight gain and you’d be correct. I still gained 40 pounds during the pandemic. Being self-aware doesn’t mean that you no longer indulge in self-destructive behavior. Plus, I’m an excellent cook. And the farmer’s market still sells glorious cheeses.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 35+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
2
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